The Fungal Theory

thenewme

Some very interesting reading for those of us on both sides of the fungus debate:

WHY PEOPLE BELIEVE WEIRD THINGS

otter

Interesting, indeed!  I decided to put the book on my Amazon wish list.

Ellie1959

I just spent a long time reading these posts, whew - I have to admit I'm a doubter - of fungal theories, baking soda, Shopenhauer............, but I do agree we need to be open to each other's points of view. The whole point of this site is to help each other deal with breast cancer. I once had a chiropractor tell me she knew a woman who cured her Stage 3 BC with black salve - needless to say - since I had just had multiple surgeries,chemo and radiation - I didn't go back....,

althea

chillipaddi, I am SO glad to hear you've been painfree for a week and that your lesions are diminishing. 

Sheila Echinda wrote:

>>...Most of us have had traditional treatments under the care of an oncologist.  Once the onco's have had their turn, let us do what we will with our own lives please.<<

Amen to that Sheila!  

impositive, I applaud your dedication to this topic. It usually exceeds my attention span, but I try to keep up as best I can.  As for your sig line quote, the doctor who first advocated washing hands inbetween patients was ridiculed to the point that he lost his practice.  He was a broken man after that and died in poverty.  ...at least his message finally took hold in years to come.  I just wanted to chime in here with some encouragement.  

luv_gardening

thenewme, 

Thanks so much for that link.  I've been looking for a clear and complete list of logical fallacies for years.  Even my son who is a card carrying, obsessed skeptic couldn't  think of anywhere to find such a list.

I'm glad the writer included 25.  Ideological Immunity.  This is where many skeptics get stuck, wanting to only believe that which is already established as truth and dismissing alternatives. People with a minority view often can't get the money, facilities or access to patients to properly research natural therapies as it now costs millions.  Even the law sides with established medical practices, making it difficult to prove the validity of alternatives.  Obviously allowing anyone to practice medicine would be dangerous, but we need to find a middle ground and integrative medicine is at last becoming more mainstream but in a very limited form. 

Even if all alternatives worked by placebo, (probably not true) what's wrong with that?  Is the objective a healthy individual or "being right"?   So the state of BC treatments now is that only surgery has been proven to cure around 80% and the other 20% will be terminal.  For the 20% medicine can only delay death and give more time.  We've been looking for the cure for ever and so far we've mostly failed.  So why not start looking retrospectively at those who've had "spontaneous regressions" to see what factors they have in common and then try to duplicate those conditions?

 Spontaneous regression: Surviving cancer against the odds

asschercut

Hi Sheila...x

Gawler is legendary down under. I remember discussing him here when I first joined. I have the utmost respect for him and his foundation.

Geez, they take the man's leg off...and then his cancer comes back 1 year later. I don't blame him for hitting the skids...and taking the natural route....with great success I might add. That was over 30 years ago, wasn't it?

I have a friend who had stage IV multiple myeloma - was given 6 months to live. After one round of chemo...he did the same, and went totally natural. He's now a 13 year survivor....and going strong.

Three cheers for Spontaneous Regression!

Victoria

asschercut

Some common fungal problems...

"The most common symptoms are vaginal yeast infections, sinus problems, digestive problems like heartburn, headaches, itchy scalp, ringing in the ears, sore joints, athlete's foot, jock itch and even high blood pressure, high cholesterol, and blood sugar ratings that are out of whack."

I have absolutely had none of these symptoms. The only time I get a headache is on a HOT WINDY day...above 38 °C. I will literally get my headache the night before and be totally bedridden for the entire day. If I wasn't to see the forecast on the TV... and got a splitting headache, I would know that the following day would be a hot and windy one, without a doubt.

As for cleanliness...I'm a cleanaholic. I can't help it. I change the sheets every 5 days and the pillow slips every two days. I clean the showers thoroughly twice a week (which actually makes it quite easy), and my Victorian bathroom once...as it only really gets used by me. I discard pillows yearly (depends what they're made of, or what stuffing they have), and doonas/quilts every 1-2 years...and buy new ones. Yep...I'm one of those. 

Impossitive.... keep the info coming. Even if you don't cross all your t's and dot the damned i's...ouch, ouch put down that slipper, woman!

Seriously...Thanks to you I have a better understanding of the importance of some of the natural antifungals I have been consuming...without really knowing I was doing it. I started reading up on natural antifungals...and didn't know that carrot juice for example, was also an antifungal. I drink carrot juice regularly, especially purple carrot juice. I definitely won't touch pharmaceutical antifungals...but I am more than happy knowing that the natural products I take have some antifungal properties in them.

You're a Gem...xoxo

Victoria

luv_gardening

Hi Victoria, 

It's fantatsic that you personally know someone who has survived Stage IV.  That must be inspiring to you.

For those who don't know Ian Gawler's story, here's a 30 year follow up that was published in the Medical Journal of Australia.  The medical photo's are staggering considering he healed himself using non-medical alternatives. The man is a living legend as you say.

 Thirty-year follow-up after Spontaneous Regression

My apologies for getting off the thread subject, but the passion and dedication of people like Impositive, Barry, Otter and many others on these boards, traditional or alternative, may well be part of the reason so many of us either avoid progression or live much longer than average with stage IV if the limited research proves to be correct.  I think there are multiple factors in Spontaneous Regression or complete healing.

luv_gardening

Ha Ha, Dr Red's purple carrot juice... delicious!  I can't believe it's not alcoholic.  I add it to fruit juice every day.  I must order purple carrot seeds on-line to grow next spring to juice instead of regular carrots.

I'm seriously thinking of trying the anti-fungal diet for a while to see if it helps a number of minor but long-term health problems.  The diet seems healthy enough but I don't eat much meat so I'm not sure how I'll get enough protein.

P.S. I bought a wine pourer kitchen gadget to stop the blood red colour getting over everything.

Dr Red Olevine Purple Carrot

asschercut

Yeah, I want to get my hands on some seeds too!

Hey Sheila! Guess where I've just come back from?

I've gone walkabout...TRUE!

I've just come back from Uluru, The Olgas, Swam in some wonderful springs and waterfalls, went to The Great Sandy Desert, The Victorian Desert, The Kimberly and Monkey Mia. I sweated half my body weight in the deserts. (My brothers brainy idea)

You know I was once severely anaemic. I get my high levels of protein from microalgae's...such as Chlorella, Spirulina and Astaxanthin. I swear I've become super woman!

I'm just sticking to my healthy diet...and if some of the foods I take have antifungal properties, then that's a bonus!

Victoria

impositive

Just wanted to respond to a previous post...I wouldn't want anyone injuring themselves because of something that's been suggested by a poster here on the fungal thread! 

DONT DRINK BLEACH!  If the label has the little skull and crossbones along with the phone number for the poison control hot line, it's never a good idea.  Plus, it probably tastes really bad too.

I also thought maybe we should have a disclaimer so here goes:   

Only your doctor can provide you with advice for what's safe and not safe.  Always consult your physician before considering theories that might differ from mainstream. The content on this thread is for those who tend to think outside the box and it is not intended to be a substitute for those who cant think for themselves.  This content is not intended to be a substitute for medical advice or medical exams nor does it replace the need for services provided by medical professionals.  Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have read on this thread.  The absence of a warning for a given thought or idea or any combination thereof relating to this theory, should in no way be construed to indicate that the thought, idea or any combination thereof is scientific fact but instead thoughtful employment of a series of questions to explore an idea or something intriguing. Impositive and her affiliates do not assume the responsibility for any aspect of health care administered with the aid of content including but not limited to antifungals, natural or otherwise.
  

And besides bleach is only effective for mold removal on hard non-porous surfaces. 

chillipadi

Althea, thank you for being happy for me. One of my brothers called me yesterday to ask if I was cured yet. I told him that the whole world would know if I was cured because I would be shouting it from the rooftops and posting everywhere in cyberspace. You see, my siblings are growing impatient with me because they've been expecting me to die and I'm still around. I'm also not looking or behaving like the stereotypical cancer patient - sickly, wasting away, skeletal, etc. I suspect they think I've been faking cancer. It's putting a real strain on my siblings to keep trying to be nice to me, so some of them are avoiding me completely Well, it's a fact that more and more women with BC are living longer than their doomsayers expect them to. Yay for us!

I must admit to being intimidated by many of the women on this thread. You are at an intellectual level that I wish I was at. The amount of research, analysis and reasoning is just amazing! It's important that as many people as possible keep contributing their views, even though they may clash with each other. Because of y'all, I have learned so much. Thank you!

It may not have been irrefutably proven that cancer is a fungus, but there is certainly enough evidence to show that there are similarities betwen the two. Scientific studies (many links given in previous posts) have shown that certain antifungal drugs and chemicals (like those used in agriculture) can disrupt or even kill cancer cells. such as by disrupting the Hedgehog Pathway (through which cancer grows), stopping angiogenesis, and disrupting aromatase. A Singapore study even showed that the chemo drug docetaxel could be halved in dosage, side effects and costs when used in conjuction with the antifungal drug ketoconazole, without compromising on effectiveness.

For me, this is enough reason to take a more antifungal approach in my cancer fight. I'm already doing metronomic chemo together with hormonal therapy, so adding antifungal therapy to my strategy can only help. I don't need to be convinced that cancer is a fungus to do what, to me, is a very logical thing to do NOW. My siblings will just have to wait for me to kick the bucket.

impositive

BTW, I removed my signature.  Although I do like it's connotation, the more we've learned about this Schoppenhauer, reveals to me that it's not the feeling I want to invoke in you all.  Like I said, I do love the inspirational ones so maybe I'll find one that doesn't offend others. (and also because Sheila suggested it and I've come to admire her a great deal)

Asschercut, Thanks for the encouragement!  Purple carrot juice?  That's a new one to me.  Gotta to look in to this..... 

Hindsfeet

Impositive...perhaps you should post the disclaimer on the first post...the one that explains what the post is...and is not.

Chillipadi, I am thrilled that you are improving. I hope you completely recover. I can't imagine what you are going through. And don't ever let anyone intiminate you. We are all intelligent in different ways. You are commonsense intelligent. You have a sweet spirit and are encouraging. Love you for that

impositive

Chillipadi, As you said cancer and fungus may or may not be linked but in order to find the answer, we have to ask the questions.  In the meantime, I agree, an antifungal diet along with natural antifungals cant hurt. 

If nothing else comes from this, at least I will know that it has helped someone else in some way.  Sometimes I have felt like I have offended so many that I should just bail...not from my search, mind you....just from posting and then I read posts like yours and others and I'm encouraged.  Thanks to all of you.  

impositive

LOL Barry...You think?

digger

The content on this thread is for those who tend to think outside the box and it is not intended to be a substitute for those who cant think for themselves. 

Impositive, are you aware at all how this black and white thinking totally undermines any of the valid reasoning you might present?  It's comments like these, throughout this thread, that takes away from other information you present.  It automatically raises the hackles of those of us who pitifully might not think "outside the box" like you do?  Does asking questions about the fungal theory automatically mean that none of us ever think outside of the box?  Things aren't so black and white.

Can you see that at all? 

impositive

digger, that was my stab at humor....my DH says I should definitely steer clear of a career in stand up, apparently that's your opinion as well.

All kidding (and sarcasm) aside though, I just dont understand why you and a couple others here take such huge issue with this thread.  I am not shoving my views down your throats, meaning I dont go to other threads and try to get everyone else to "believe" in this, nor do I start new threads so I can talk about how you guys call me names or bug me.  You guys come here  to read our  thoughts and views.  To me it's kind of like people complaining about network programming.  I say if they dont like it, they should change the channel or just turn it off completely and find something better to do. 

I know you've said you are worried that others who come here may "buy in" but then you also say: "are you aware at all how this black and white thinking totally undermines any of the valid reasoning you might present?  It's comments like these, throughout this thread, that takes away from other information you present".  If this is true then I guess we dont need to worry about others coming here and jumping off the conventional wagon to board the fungal train. 

Cancer isn't black and white.  If it were, it would be simple.  Sometimes I believe "they cant see the forest for all the trees."  I think that's where science is right now.  Maybe new ideas are what they need to make the shift to turn this around,  but that's just my opinion and I hope I'm entitled.

I really am not here to try to offend you or anyone else.  I feel I have taken measures to lessen that effect.  Obviously my signature really bugged you and others so I removed it and I asked you all to forgive my "logical fallacy."  I will still continue to comment on my ideas regarding this theory and I welcome all who have a differing facts or opinions.  All I ask is that we have respectful, rational discussions without the personal attacks and disregard for others.     

impositive

Sheila and Asschercut,

I envy you ladies.  I would love to visit Australia.  Maybe someday I will.  I had never heard of purple carrots.  I went to the link you provided Sheila and they have some drink crystals that are made with the purple carrots, olive leaf and seaweed. WOW! What a super food that is!  I would love to get me hands on some.  When I pull up an order form for the US, it only shows prices for the punch and one of the other wines. A 6 pack of one of those plus shipping is $280! Yikes...I may have to search further and get my hands on some of those seeds as well. 

I also read the story you posted.  What a journey for this incredible man.  Thank you both for the inspiration.

char123

Hi thenewme: To answer your question.    You had mentioned in one of your posts..about clorox killing fungus so does that mean it cures cancer. You had asked it to Imp .....I did not go back to that post so I may not have it exactly right.  I travel with a large group of friends. Our diets are similar along with many other things.  I am the only one who has cancer. Cancer of any kind, the only difference ...the one thing that I do that none of the others do, is use lot of clorox.  I think I use more clorox than most people. (not any more), So I have wondered, if the clorox had anything to do with it.  Just wondered about it... not that I believe it..

luv_gardening

Digger, you said,

"Impositive, are you aware at all how this black and white thinking totally undermines any of the valid reasoning you might present"

If you're trying to show you are more logical than Impositive you're undermining your own argument.  Neither bad spelling nor one expression undermines the validity of the reasoning. It sounds more like an ad hominem attack.  In fact I would suggest that black and white thinking is when someone tries to discredit another due to spelling mistakes that have no link to the content of the argument. You seem to be saying that we can't believe Impositive because she leaves out apostrophes and puts in the odd throw away line when she's under attack by detractors. Sounds pretty black and white to me.

Please stick to the subject at hand which is whether there is a link between cancer and fungus if you want to be taken seriously.

char123

Sheila.:  Agreed....

impositive

Digger and others, I was reading back over some of our posts looking for something and (geez!) my typos are ridiculous!  I caught myself typing than instead of then... too instead of to, etc.  English was my strongsuit in school....really!  (typing, not so much)  Guess I need to proof read.

Hindsfeet

Impositive...Please don't apologize for typo's. Who cares?  If I had to worry about grammar, or spelling, I would never post. I'm a college graduate, but English was not my strength. I assumed when I came to bco that this was a place for everyone, even those who have no education. It would be sad if a woman did not post fearing their spelling or grammar would be judged. 

kira1234

Boy since taking chemo my grammer and spelling has gotten so bad. I don't think any of us should make remarks about our typo's we have so much more to worry about.

barry, I hope you are coming to some conclusions about you treatment, just remember don't give up on the alternatives. They most surely can be included with any treatment you decide on. For me I followed my Onc's suggestions only up to a point during chemo. I wanted to support my body as much as possible during that time, she didn't want me to take any suppliments. Do your own research and do what is right for you.

Hindsfeet

Kira...Thanks for the heads up. The oncologist I saw was open. She appreciate that I was out spoken about what I wanted and didn't want. At this point, I don't think she would suggest chemo, especially with my type of cancer. If she did, hmmm...she might find me a stubborn patient

I will take the needed tests to enable me to make the best surgery decision. If the cancer was found throughout the breast or a more serious cancer, I would have a mx.  If not, I  get a simple lumpectomy. I am considering a mammosite. Need more research on the pro's and con's. I hope to get a second opinion.

I only have a few days where I have time to make a doctors appointment. Right now, I'm averaging one doctors appointment a week. Wednesday, I'm getting blood workup on yeast antibodies, and my antibody levels for HASHI's. I want a baseline done before using resveratrol.

so Kira, I haven't yet decided on what treatment, or what bs surgeon I will use.  Right now, I"m asking questions, research and meeting with doctors.  Thanks for caring xoxo

Hindsfeet

Impositive...today while at the mall, I smelled freshly baked bread. YUM...although right now I'm trying not to eat bread. I was with my daughter and a yeast question came to mind. Is yeast a live bacteria that is put into the flour that makes it expand? So...are we putting bacteria into our bread? Just never thought about it this way. What do you think?

wendy57

Barry - I know you directed your question to impositive, so I hope you do not mind me responding.   

Yeast and Bacteria are 2 different creatures:  yeasts are NOT bacteria and bacteria are NOT yeasts.  Yeast are fungi and bacteria are not fungi. Their methods of reproduction and their cell structures are different.  Bacteria are simple single-celled organisms.  Fungi are more complex organisms. Yeast is a single-celled (unicellular) fungus

The most significant difference is that Yeasts are Eukaryotic cells and Bacteria are Prokaryotic cells.  What this basically means is that Yeasts have their DNA contained within a membrane-bound nucleus.  Bacteria lack a nucleus. The bacterial cell has a cell membrane containing cytoplasm.  Bacterial DNA is loosely organized in one area within the cytoplasm called the nucleotide (although they do possess some measures to compact it so that it takes up less space.) The yeast/fungal cell also has organelles such as endoplasmic reticulum to produce complex proteins. The bacterial cells lack organelles.  

 Bacteria undergo binary fission, an asexual process in which the cell replicates its own DNA and splits in two, thus creating an identical copy of the original. A fungus is capable of reproducing both sexually and asexually using spores, budding and fragmentation. Specialized cells, gametes, unite to form a unique spore, a process that is considered a form of sexual reproduction. Spores may also be produced asexually on the tip of hyphae. Fragmentation occurs when cells of the hyphae split off to form a new fungus. A single fungus cell may split in two to form a new individual in a process called budding. Budding occurs in yeasts, which are only made up of one cell. Budding is somewhat similar to binary fission in bacteria, in that the single cell divides into two separate cells
 
All that being said - if the bread you smelled at the mall was a natural sourdough bread - then yes, it does contain bacteria.  Lactic acid bacteria are bacteria occurring in natural sourdoughs. and the Yeasts in "natural sourdough" different from "baker's yeast". 

otter

Hey, all--

From what I've learned in school, all those bugs, whether they are baker's yeast (Saccharomyces spp.) or sourdough starter (Lactobacillus spp.) are killed during the baking process. 

I read on an unscientific bread-baking website that bread yeast cells are killed at 140º F (like the water from your hot water faucet when your water heater is set a bit too high). That makes sense, because when I used to do lab work, we routinely killed microorganisms and denatured (destroyed) proteins by heating things to 65º C (= 149º F). There are some odd types of bacteria that are able to live at really high temps, but they're not the ones we use in cooking.

FWIW, here's what wiki says about baker's yeast:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baker%27s_yeast, and here's wiki on sourdough:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sourdough

Finally, here's some interesting info on bread baking, including a good explanation of what the yeast is doing in there:   http://www.joyofbaking.com/Yeast.html

On an unrelated/OT note:  I do not know how people manage to live gluten-free lives.  I love breads too much.  (I'm getting hungry just typing this.)

otter

wendy57

I agree with you otter! I believe that any yeast or bacteria cells in bread should be killed through the baking process - I wasn't thinking that far ahead