I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

Yes, I know no ne here said that Palin shot anyone.  However, to say that ad advocated the shooting OF anyone is absolutely ridiculous.  We do not promote violence in this country.  We promote VOTING!  And that's exactly what Palin was doing and no one even knows if the nut case even saw the graphic.  This is really, really silly!

As far as the sheriff...not a good thing for him to say.  But, for me it was not surprising. 

My question...does any other country have violence or threats made to policitians?  You will find ALL politicians have threats made against them.  It's horrible..not one condones it.  I can guarantee you that if there was no tempers flaring during elections or votes, threats would still be out there.  Some violence as well.  Freedom of speech is not responsible for killing people...PERIOD. 

Shirley, we did have a pie thrown in the face of one of our prime ministers.  And one actually fought off an intruder with a wooden loon carving.

Shirley -- I haven't been reading ANY leftwing blogs.  The news I got was from CNN, NBC, CBC and my local Toronto newspaper this morning. 

Perhaps you should read my post again.  I wasn't accusing anyone, merely pointing out that assassins (you may not like that word, but CNN used it and it's appropriate regarding a political figure) behave either alone or at the behest of another party.  WHY this person did so is not for those of us who are not mental health experts to conclude.

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=253055&kaid=127&subid=171

A comment from the above linked article which contains the map I posted above:

DLC | Blueprint Magazine | December 13, 2004

"Just as Republicans pursued a Southern strategy in the late 1960s, Democrats should craft a heartland strategy that targets winnable states in the South, the lower Midwest, and the Rocky Mountain West. At the very least, a heartland strategy would wreak havoc behind enemy lines. Done right, it could help end the Democrats' cultural estrangement from their natural constituency -- the working middle class -- and start bringing them back home.

IMO, the actions of the democratic congress in the past two years has driven a wedge between them and the "working middle class" deeper than ever.

We all are products of the culture within which we live. It's unavoidable - unless a person is capable of sophisitcated critical thinking.

PIP, you said this:  "There are a lot of people out there on the edge of insanity. If we knew what eventually pushed some of them over the edge, we would not be having incidences like this. Is it so wrong to expect civility and facts be used to voice our opinions instead of hate and fear?"

I agree that we do have the right to expect civil behavior, and to expect that facts be used to support opinions, instead of hate and fear.  I despise the vitriol and divisiveness of today's political debate.  It seems to us nowdays that the viciousness of the debate, and the thoughtlessness of the comments and actions, surpass any historical precedent.  But that's not true.

We might expect civility and rationality, but the history of human behavior on both sides of the border -- and both sides of the pond -- have shown that we are bound to be disappointed.  (FWIW, I think the preacher from Westboro Baptist Church in Kansas went over the "edge" a long time ago.)

lassie11 wrote:  "There is a cultural setting that made it possible and predictable for this particular madman do what he did.  The culture reveres guns, the divisive politics promotes seeing opposition as enemy, the advertising of putting specific politicians in a clearly gun like crosshairs encourages people only slightly on the edge to fall over the edge; this particular madman is a product of that culture."

If that is true, then how do we account for the following?  What "cultural setting" made these tragedies possible?:

“At least 12 killed in U.K. shootings”
Published: June 2, 2010 (http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2010/06/02/At-least-12-killed-in-UK-shootings/UPI-29431275498826/)
WHITEHAVEN, England, June 2 (UPI) -- A taxi driver suspected in a rampage that left at least 12 people dead and 25 others wounded in West Cumbria, England, killed himself Wednesday, police said.  The Times of London reported police said three of the 25 wounded were in critical condition.  The newspaper said it was Britain's worst mass killing since the Dunblane Primary School massacre in Scotland in 1996 left 13 dead.

“Dawson College shooting”
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawson_College_shooting)
The Dawson College shooting occurred on September 13, 2006 at Dawson College, a CEGEP in Westmount near downtown Montreal, Quebec, Canada. The perpetrator, Kimveer Gill, began shooting outside the de Maisonneuve Boulevard entrance to the school, and moved towards the atrium by the cafeteria on the main floor. One victim died at the scene, while another 19 were injured, eight of whom were listed in critical condition with six requiring surgery. The shooter later committed suicide by shooting himself in the head, after being shot in the arm by police.

“Canadian pig farmer denies mass murder allegations”
Posted 1/23/2007 (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-01-23-canada-murder_x.htm)
NEW WESTMINSTER, British Columbia (AP) — A Canadian pig farmer whom prosecutors said confessed to killing 49 women told police in a videotaped interview shown to jurors Tuesday that the allegations against him were "hogwash," yet concedes he's "a bad dude."

Robert Pickton, 56, is charged with killing 26 women, mostly prostitutes and drug addicts who vanished from a drug-ridden Vancouver neighborhood in the 1990s. He has pleaded not guilty to the first six counts. A separate trial will be held for the other 20 murder charges.  If convicted, Pickton faces life in prison. Canada abolished the death penalty in 1976.  The jurors in the most sensational murder trial Canada has ever faced began watching 11 hours of videotaped interviews Tuesday. A day earlier, prosecutors said the interviews would go on to show Pickton telling an undercover police officer that he had killed 49 women and intended to make it "an even 50" before he got sloppy and was caught.

And, finally:  “List of multiple or mass murder cases in Canada”
Date: Apr. 8, 2006 (http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TorontoHome/20060408/mass_murder_list_060408/)
Below is a listing of many mass or multiple murder cases in Canada, compiled by The Canadian Press…

It seems there are more than enough lunatics to go around.  The tragedy in Arizona sickens me.  As a closet Libertarian and voting moderate, I especially appreciate Blue Dog Democrats; but that's beside the point. No political official should have to plan his/her day around the possibility of an assault by an insane person with murderous intent. As usual, though, we cannot create a zero-risk environment without losing the things our politicians were elected to support and defend.

otter

Excellent post, Kadeeb. Thank you.

Agreed.

Laura 

Sounds like BO says one thing then says something else. Bet he would like those words back now.

Aren't these just lovely.  Any outrage from any country?  

Assassination of President Bush (this one even has his funeral)  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvwyx8Ai14U  

Produced by Channel 4 (UK). In other words: this video was not produced by the liberals; it is just a fictional British video.

Clip from Bush Assassination Film  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojWOWyHWj6M  

This is the video that's outraged America, showing the moment of George Bush's violent assassination.  

Another comment from another link that showed the video:  

This is a clip from the movie Death of a President, it was just shown in toronto it depicts george bush being assasinated, movie came from http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live... (this link doesn't work)

Very good explanation about movie from another link on UTube.  I know, these are irrelevant..dated just like the posters I C&Ped on the now deleted thread.  You see, this is just a simple little old movie about a killing of a sitting president. Ya know, something that's done every day.

Winner of the International CriticsÕ Prize at the Toronto Film Festival, DEATH OF A PRESIDENT is conceived as a fictional TV documentary broadcast in 2008, reflecting on a monstrous and cataclysmic event: the assassination of President George W. Bush on October 19th, 2007. The ÒdocumentaryÓ artfully combines archival footage and carefully composed interviews presented in a respectful and dignified manner. The film doesnÕt advocate violence; rather, it shows itsÕ pernicious effects. It is exciting and questioning, and it offers viewers a riveting story -- creating a provocative political thriller that reveals larger truths.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5h55k3wzOY&feature=channel

Yes, good article Laura.  There's two sides to politics.  Seems like some people only see one....  peripheral vision?

Maybe I'm missing something but I just don't see this as a "your guy said something worse" contest. Do those of you on the right agree that all public figures need to be more civil? This includes politicians, radio and TV personalities, coaches, athletes, etc. If you don't agree, please speak up and explain why you think this uncivil screaming hatelful talk is helping us.

enjoyful, If we do a tally, count me out. I never liked math and I'm afraid the count would go beyond my fingers and toes.

BinVA, I think her comments are exactly the reason it needs to be dialed down a notch. This political environment leads to conclusions and not facts. 

Of course it is possible to find examples of other unspeakable acts - yes, in countries outside the US. They too happened within a cultural context. Everything happens within a cultural context. We are not apart from the here and now of our culture.  And it is possible to find examples of misdeeds by other sources. So what?!

It is certainly possible to find examples of how unhinged the young man is. That does not advance the argument.

None of this erases the reality that in this case, this young man lived in a culture where guns are revered and accessible, where politics has become vicious. He soaked that up, twisted it (because, clearly he is twisted) and we see the results.