The Respectfully Republican Conversation
Comments
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Rosemary: Hi to you! Im doing good, thanks for asking. I have been doing hit and run posts here. Had alot of fun when Linda was here and we talked recipes. Of course we have important things to discuss - in fact most of the information I get is from reading both sites. I do think there are plenty of lies on both sides. And that discourages me.
I have too many friends on this thread and you are one of them! I have to pop in. When I do come here I try to be bipartisan
I think there is alot of passion going along with this election. More than I can ever remember and I have been voting age for 40 years. Ok - hi to you all. Now I will go back over there <---------------------------.Nicki
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What hatred LuAnn?
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Hi Nicki, be sure to let everyone know <----------------------- all are welcome.
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LuAnn, after this is all over with we'll be going back to normal.
I have been on the other thread. I know that you support Obama. I have seen malicious remarks made over there about McCain's dd. You know, the one about she needs a better bra. I saw her on a couple of shows and she's absolutely delightful. She loves her dad. I don't think she really wanted him to run again because it is so ugly. And, as far as the bra statement...she's very endowed. Perhaps Amy should have said she needs a breast reductions. I think it was mean and people were laughing at Amy's remarks.
So, I don't appreciate anyone coming over here and telling us how horrible we are..hateful that is. We are not welcome over there according to Amy. But we have never, as far as I know, been hateful and told any of the Obama supporters they cannot post here. Yep, I'm a bit angry!
Shirley
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Well, Rosemary, we'll just have to see what comes from that article about Michelle..is it true or false.
Shirley
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I know this is old news. But I think it's important to read. An example int his article about how Obama flip flops.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18862112/
Clinton, Obama vote 'no' on Senate Iraq bill
Other presidential candidates: Dodd joins in 'no' vote; Biden votes 'yes'
updated 10:15 a.m. ET, Fri., May. 25, 2007 WASHINGTON - Courting the anti-war constituency, Democratic presidential rivals Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama both voted against legislation that pays for the Iraq war but lacks a timeline for troop withdrawal.
"I fully support our troops" but the measure "fails to compel the president to give our troops a new strategy in Iraq," said Clinton, a New York senator.
"Enough is enough," Obama, an Illinois senator, declared, adding that President Bush should not get "a blank check to continue down this same, disastrous path."
Their votes Thursday night continued a shift in position for the two presidential hopefuls, both of whom began the year shunning a deadline for a troop withdrawal.
On a vote of 80-14, the Senate cleared the measure and sent it to Bush.
Both Clinton and Obama have faced intense pressure from the party's liberal wing and Democratic presidential challengers who urged opposition to the measure because it doesn't include a timeline to pull forces out of Iraq.
Other Senate candidates
Sen. Christopher Dodd of Connecticut, who also voted against the legislation, was among the Democratic candidates calling for rejection of it, along with former Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina and New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson.Of the four Democratic hopefuls in the Senate, only Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware supported the bill. He said he did so reluctantly because he viewed the measure as flawed. But he added: "As long as we have troops on the front lines, it is our shared responsibility to give them the equipment and protection they need."
With their "no" votes, Clinton, Obama and Dodd earned praise from the party's left flank, which has been pushing for a quick end to the war and is an important part of the Democratic base in the primaries.
"This bold stand by three of the four presidential candidates in the Senate won't soon be forgotten," promised Eli Pariser, executive director of MoveOn.org's political action committee.
Although they appeased the Democratic base, Clinton, Obama and Dodd did open themselves up to criticism from Republicans that they were denying 165,000 troops the resources they need - an argument that could be damaging in a general election.
Both Clinton and Obama had remained publicly uncommitted in the hours before the vote. Neither were on the Senate floor as voting began. Halfway through, Obama walked into the chamber and cast his "no" vote. Clinton did the same a few minutes later.
Why vote 'No'?
Obama framed the vote as a choice between "validating the same failed policy" and "demanding a new one.""I am demanding a new one," he said. "We must fund our troops. But we owe them something more," Obama said, calling for "a clear, prudent plan to relieve them of the burden of policing someone else's civil war."
Clinton put the blame on Bush, saying that he should have "followed the will of the people" and signed an earlier bill that would have both funded the war and started a troop withdrawal.
"But the president vetoed Congress's new strategy and so Congress must reject the president's failed policies," she said, adding that Bush should begin a phased withdrawal and "abandon this escalation."
Clinton voted to authorize the invasion in 2002. She has since become a constant critic of the Bush administration's handling of it but has refused to call her initial vote a mistake. She had adamantly opposed setting a hard deadline for troop withdrawals, but a week ago she voted to advance a bill that would cut off money to force a troop withdrawal by March 2008.
Obama wasn't in the Senate in 2002. But he, like Clinton, prominently shunned earlier proposals to set a fixed timetable for an end to the war only to vote to advance last week's bill that included a date to bring home troops.
The voting went as expected in the GOP field.
Sen. John McCain, a staunch supporter of the troop increase and the war itself but a longtime critic of the way Bush waged it, is the only top-tier Republican candidate in Congress, and he voted for the measure. A lesser-known GOP hopeful, Sen. Sam Brownback of Kansas, did not vote.
In the House, long-shot Reps. Duncan Hunter, R-Calif., and Tom Tancredo, R-Colo., supported the bill, while Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, and Rep. Dennis Kucinich, D-Ohio, opposed it.
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LuAnn,
You're right - elections are a serious topic and people have strong opinions, but it should never get ugly. Some of what's been said has been terrible.
Having said that, I will defend and support the women on this thread. As a Canadian who dislikes George Bush and leans Democratic but who respects McCain and worries about Obama's positions & lack of experience, I don't fit anywhere. Yet I've been driven off the other thread, insulted & called names (racist, among other things) and have been told that I am not welcome to post there, regardless of what I may say. On the other hand, I have always been treated with respect here, even when I've disagreed with the majority of posters here my opinions have been accepted and I've always been welcomed. I haven't read the other thread in the longest time because I was so disgusted by what was written there. I appreciate that the most hateful posts have been written by just a few of the posters there but I have to wonder why anyone would participate in that thread considering some of what's been said and how people have been treated. So I'd suggest that it's not fair to put everyone, and both of these threads, into the same bucket.
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Ya know? I was just thinking about LuAnn's question. I was thinking how so many people over there talked about how old, white, tired, etc., that McCain looked. How would it sound, since we're called racist or are accused of race baiting, if we said that Obama's not black enough. If we say he is bi-racial people get mad.
My youngest dd is voting for Obama. She's the one that spent at least two years in Africa. She loves Africa. She asked me why did we call "blacks" African American. Now, remember, she's not a racist! I said what would you like us to call blacks. She said "Americans." She said in England they don't call blacks English Blacks or whatever. When I say "African American" she corrects me by saying "Americans." I also heard a conservative black man say that he is not African American. He said, I'm an American who happens to be black.
Okay, now whomever can come after me for my "race baiting."
Shirley
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I think that LuAnn may be referring at least in part to some of the things that were said on that other thread. On Sunday, I posted the following italicized comment on that other thread in response to a request for opinions of John Lewis's comments that was followed by a dig about McCain "I don't think in his heart he is what I would call a "nice person". :
You say that you don't think that John McCain is a nice person in his heart. Do you remember Jimmy Carter? He is a wonderful, great, good, very nice man, and makes a fine elder statesman, but he was a LOUSY President! Do you remember "stagflation" and the Iranian Hostage Crisis? Niceness is not a job requirement for the Presidency, in fact it can be a hinderance.
John Lewis's statements are at least as incindiary as anything that has come out of the McCain Palin camp. That every member of congress has not called for an apology is telling.
Your candidate demands an apology anytime he is called by his full given name. He is obviously not yet comfortable in his own skin.
The true sadness is that given a few more years of experience, I think that he could have made an outstanding President, but since he was pushed to run before he was ready, if he wins, the country will get a mediocre President at best. If he loses, he probably won't be able to run again when he may be in a position to do a better job.
I also worry about the role that the Rev Al Sharpton would play in a Obama Administration.
Most people in this country want change from the status quo, but is this the change we want?
For that, I was called a racist, intolerant, prejudiced, and a liar. They assumed that I based my concerns that Sharpton would be given a position of power because he is black. In reality, my concerns are based on comments that Sharpton made about speaking with Obama several times a week as quoted in a March NY Daily News article. He makes it sound like he is one of the people that Obama turns to. Sharpton may be exaggerating his access, or he may not, just in case he's not, I'm concerned. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/03/19/2008-03-19_during_rally_al_sharpton_says_hes_keepin.html.
It's called an opinion, but in certain places, people aren't allowed to have them unless they follow the party line exactly. Is Sharpton all bad? No, I don't think anybody is all good or all bad. Even broken clocks are right twice a day.
You folks here seem to be much more tolerant of people with differing opinions.
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Hmmm....something that's making me think WTH!!!!!????
I heard Newt say on Greta last night....Speaker Pelosi, over the weekend, said they have to take "harsh measures in a special session..." Not quite sue what that meant. I'll have to check into that further. I suppose their coming back before their vacatin ends. Then, he went on to say that two congressional domestic leaders announced yesterday they wanted to abolish 401-K plans and replace them with a mandated government savings plan. Again, WT_!? Have you heard this? I realize I cannot back up those statements, so it'll just be food for thought.
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Obama's going to be spending millions or one million point something on a 30 minuted airing. No wonder he didn't want to take public finance. Just another flip flop this man did.
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I agree with Beesie. If they were giving a gold statute for vitriol that has no relationship to policies and everything to do with personal attacks on person, family, gender, and age, the Obama thread wins in a walk. I read both threads (less frequently of late the Obama Thread), and I have noticed on occasion some less than pleasant rhetoric here, but so far as I've noticed, no posters has been driven off. I don't attack the persons of candidates (well, I did call Tim Mahoney ugly) but I frequently post on policy issues and almost always disagree with the folks here. Yet I'm always treated with courtesy--impatient courtesy at times--when I post. I assume, Shokk, you were kidding when you told us left-leaning, tree-hugging leftists to leave.
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Just so you all know I posted the same thing on the other thread, I'm an equal opportunity commenter
Yes I am supporting Obama but I do come here to read and everybody is very passionate but I think alot of this is starting to get downright awfull. Not necessarily on these boards but the media blows alot of things out of proportions.I will tell you my reason for my vote even if you didn't ask
It has nothing to do with McCain, I was actually open to who to vote for because of the terrible state of our country. I did not like how McCain handled the first debate. I found out after that debate that Obama is a very good public speaker and McCain has a terrible hatred for this man. He came across as a very angry old man. But I kept my mind open and was actually listening to issues.When VP's were announced I actually thought it was cool that McCain picked a woman but I did see it as grandstanding and using gender to try and steal some votes because Obama did not pick hillary. Palin has an energy about her but the more I found out about her the more I dislike her. She has the nerve to talk about openness and honesty and her hands are very far from clean. She has learned how to be corrupt without even getting to washington. My real fear is that something will happen to McCain and in my opinion she is not qualifed to run the country. Heck they won't even let her interview with the media because she is doesn't know answers to anything and that is a risk I can't fathom.
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LuAnn--you just made one of those comments that I find so offensive on the Obama thread. You describe McCain as "a very angry old man." Why did you need the "old" there? If he were angry and younger would that be acceptable? Are you suggesting that anger and old go together like ham and cheese? Does that make everyone over a certain age angry? I see by your picture that you have a young child, so I gather you are not old. I am, with a quick mind and a healthy body, and to be direct I really do dislike such comments. And why "steal votes." Are there votes that Obama has a right to and McCain does not? The language people use often reflects their hidden feelings.
References to breasts, children, gender, age, race, big girl panties--I could go on forever--are not acceptable in adult, reasoned political discourse. And such references permeate the Obama thread, far more often than on this thread I regret to say. My regret is that I always believed that those of us on the left were more open-minded and reasonable in our views than those on the right. I no longer have that illusion. Sigh!
Pat--they are very quick to call people racist; that much is obvious. But honestly, I had the same questions they had when reading your post. Why would you pull Sharpton's name out of a hat, with all the thousands of advisers in Obama's fold. If anything, the huge numbers of his advisers makes my nervous. I fear he will jump around looking for quick fixes to everything and will never settle into a policy and implement it. But Sharpton is not Obama's style. He is mine, however; I like a little passion and heat in my politicians. Cool is a turnoff for me.
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Thank you anneshirley...........You said it so well, I don't think I need to comment any further!!!!! I guess one comment does come to mind. I guess when I'm 73 and have grey hair, had BC,am overweight, I can just curl up and die somewhere eh?
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Shirley--My memory is that during the 70's many influential African Americans asked to be referred to as "black." More recently, many influential African Americans said they preferred to be referred to as "African American." I am called Irish American when people refer to my ancestry. I agree with your daughter that we are all Americans, but I also believe that for courtesy we should refer to people in the manner preferred by them. Obviously, I don't refer to my friends as black friends--they're friends. But there are times, too many I agree, when race is part of the conversation and when that is the case we should refer to race in the way preferred by those being referenced.
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Anneshirley,
You ask why I came up with Sharpton's name out of a hat. It's because back when Sharpton was making a name for himself with the Tawana Brawley case, and when he went after the NJ State Troopers, that was local news for us.
I am not familiar with all of Obama's associates and advisors in the Chicago area, but I've been hearing Sharpton for a very long time, and he scares me. He has cleaned up his image and much of his rhetoric in recent years, but he hasn't disavowed some of the hatefilled statements he made early on.
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I do consider someone that is age 72 old, maybe I am young enough to consider that old, but to me he comes off very angry and the fact of the matter is that he is old.
As for these bra comments, they were inappropriate and if you look I said the same comments on the dem thread. I did not respond to the bra comments because they have no place there. I personally think all the children and families are off limits because they are not running for office.
I would like to know where I can purchase a health insurance policy for $5,400 a year that McCain just claimed in the interview that I can get. As a stage IV cancer patient without some guarenteed health care I am uninsurable in the insurance companies mind. I am ineligible for life insurance and cannot get any kind of secondary coverage to help with copays that is within the means of the average joe the plumber.
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I like both Presidential candidates. I think it was a tie debate tonight.
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It's more about Democrats and Republicans, liberals and conservatives. Both parties were thinking when they picked their candidates tho.
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LuAnne, perhaps you should read the Health Care thread so you can actually understand the plan that McCain has offered, which is $5,000 towards any type of health insurance, whether employer based or paid for by you. Are we to assume that you prefer to pay $12,000, the cost of the government plan that Obama will let you enroll in, assuming you don't already have employer insurance. And if you do have employer insurance, McCain will help you pay part or in some cases all of your cost of the employer premium. Obama offers nothing. Zero, Zilch, Nada. I suspect you're confused as Obama is a smooth talker and you need to be quick to catch him out. This old woman is quick, perhaps the wisdom of the aged. I hope you didn't come away from the debate thinking that the Obama government plan is free. It's not. The cost is approximately $12,000 for a family plan and about $5,800 for a single. Both candidates offer high-risk plans for those who can't find insurance and subsidies for those who can't afford insurance, so there's a wash there. But sorry to tell you this, neither plan will be implemented, so don't get your knickers into a twist. (It's a saying we old folks have.)
Another catch of the night: the 15% cut on Medicare Advantage plans that Obama said he would use to pay for his programs because the plans don't help anyone but insurance companies is a lie. I saved $25,000 in medical bills because of one of those plans. If I had had to pay the $25,000 I would have had to eliminate some of my treatment: chemo, radiation, scans, perhaps herceptin, something. And believe this--I don't think that's okay, not even because I'm old.
LuAnne, when you reach the ripe old age of 72 (and I'm sure it's when), you'll be surprised how really young that is. But even if you don't think it's young now, common courtesy should preclude you from telling us directly that we're old. I really don't understand why you would want to insult me and others on this board of similar age. I thought you were one of the good guys, advocating for more civility on these threads. I'm sorry if I were mistaken.
Pat--I can certainly understand that you don't like Sharpton. Lots of people don't, and lots do--me for one. But why do you associate him with Obama? Nearly 18,000,000 people voted for Obama in the primaries. For sure lots of them are people you wouldn't like and just as likely none of them will be Obama's advisers. The same is true of McCain and all politicians. I doubt any of the people at McCain's rallies that yelled "kill him" referring to Obama will be McCain's advisers. Politicans can't be held responsible for the actions of everyone who supports them. If Sharpton is the only thing keeping you from voting for Obama, you should take another look.
And LuAnne, if the health care plan is what's keeping you from voting for McCain, you should defnitely take another look. My suspicion, however, is that both of you are putting out red herrings.
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I do think this was McCain's best performance. The line about him not being Bush and if Obama wanted to run against Bush he should have run 4 years ago was priceless. Too bad he didn't use it earlier and through his campaing. I am not sure he won over any of Obama's supporters.
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Anne, you know i am a good guy and I am sorry if I offended you personally saying I thought 70's was old. I actually really wish that could be a reality for me but being stage IV and already 2 1/2 years into my dx at the ripe old age of 46, I seriously don't think 70's is a realistic number for me unfortunately. I wish it were in my ballpark but I am shooting for 60 and one heck of a celebration when that one happens!
I'm sorry I intruded on your thread I may not have taken something that may have been a joke well and have really had a rotten day, DIL issues and I have seen alot of hatred in the media and then reading stuff here just got to me.
The beauty of the US is we get to have our opinions and are allowed to express them. I will respectfully bow out of your thread and go back to where I agree with the thoughts of the candidates.
I do agree that Obama is a smooth talker but as I said before if it weren't for Palin I might be thinking differently. Thank you for listening and not hanging me and I will talk peacefully with you all again after the elections, how's that?
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Anne, I'm 62 yo. I believe 72 sounds really young. I just hope I can make it to that age.
I had a conversation with my little (at the time 5 yo) granddaughter a few months ago. She understands that animals die because they get old and sick. She asked me if I was going to die one day. I told her yes. She said, NO! YOU'RE MY GRANDMA (my name is Mimi...LOL..I'm no grandma!). I told her I would be around for a long time. That seemed to satisfy her. She's already got one step-grandmom who she loves, and is doing very poorly with stage IV cancer and she's not even 60 yet. I must say so I don't scare stage IV women that she was dxd about 12 years ago with stage IV..went to Duke, was admitted into the hospital, and had some kind of heavey duty chemo. I'm not too familiar with that because I didn't know her then. Anyway, they didn't think she would stay NED for 10 years, but she did! She's been living with the new mets for over two years. None of us thought she would. She's one heck of a woman, and is fighting to stay alive.
Anneshirley, those health care plans are pretty tricky. I need to go back to that thread. We do have coverage through AT&T. And, they're MAKING us NOT go to the doctor too often with that $2200 deductible. However, before bc I only went to my primary care doc twice a year because I'm on meds and he needs to do blood work. And, of course, the gyn and finally a colonoscopy which I believe is free (gyn once a year and colonoscopy..I don't know).
So, young woman, I assume you're still voting for Nadar.
Oh, and one thing that really bugs me. I hate it when the candidates say what they are going to do about our economy. THEY DO NOT KNOW! The experts don't know what's happening. It's like health care...not so easy. What about a little honesty and just say..I DON'T KNOW..but I'll have the best advisers around me.
Joe the Plumber is going to be on Huckabee's show. He's on Fox at 8 PM on Sat and Sun night..Sunday being a repeat. Should be interesting to hear what Joe the Plumber has to say.
Shirley
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LuAnn, in case you peek in...we luv ya! I know WHO you are when reading your posts on other threads. I'm sorry you had a bad day. And I know you worry about your son in Iraq. And I'm betting that you'll make that 72 mark!
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Thanks Shirley, I will probably still read because I am nosey but will keep my nose where it belongs LOL
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LuAnne--I see you're HER2+ as I am. (We are diagnosed at very much the same time.) Please don't forget about the recent HER2+ vaccine that is now going into human trials. It had great success in animal trials (tumors completely disappeared) which is why I said "when," as I know it will be "when." And honestly you won't feel old when you reach my age (I'm 67 and hope to live to 89 which is the age my mother died). My 71 year old sister is still a full-time professor who writes books in her spare time--she just finished her third. And she moves faster than any other person I know, including her grandchildren. This week she's off to a conference in Switzerland.
Also, this is not my thread. I pop in from time to time, usually to advocate another point of view--I am far left of all of you, on both threads. My threads are in chronological order: Hillary will Rise Again, Ralph Nader, Conscience of the Democrats (pretty much dead these days), Bailout Thread, and the Health Care Thread, and a few others that I've dropped over time. I love discussing politics, but mainly policy, not personality. So I applaud your posts on both threads concerning civility, but I did feel the need to defend the "aged." I'm counting on the vaccine to get me to 80 at least, but I really hope 90.
So not insulted but not old either. Sorry for your bad day and I hope tomorrow is a great one.
Shirley--I have to confess that I decided this weekend to vote for Obama. I still feel the same about all his Republican positions--at least they feel Republican to me, but for personal reasons that I won't disclose I think I should vote for him and not Ralph. But I volunteered this week for Ralph's phone bank, so I'm not deserting him altogether. It's not for Obama's health plan that I have decided to vote for him, and the truth be told if he and the Democrats (actually the Democrats have been planning this for ages) get rid of Advantage plans my health care costs will increase quite a bit. A big sigh.
That I plan to vote for Obama has nothing whatsoever to do with my crusade not to let misleading or untrue statements sit, whether said by the candidates or their supporters. My husband says I'm just argumentative--and he's probably right. It's genetic; I'm Irish.
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Well, Anne, Obama has one more supporter. LOL He said if Fox News wasn't around he'd be a couple of more points up in the poll. Now, that's not a direct quote.
Also, here's part of his statement about the "bitter" comment...."biggest bonehead move." What does that mean? I believe this is supposed to be in the N. Y. Times. I was listening to Greta when I heard that. Guess I'll have to search for it. He sure does like the word, "boneheaded."
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Guess I better start looking for a nursing home.........and here I thought I was in my Late Youth!
(at least the GYN's nurse was stunned when she saw my age!)
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