STEAM ROOM FOR ANGER

bcincolorado

The exhaustion can make it hard to get out of bed but the aches of the bones makes it hard to stay in bed. The weight gain makes you feel fat. Docs tell you can't lose weight because of the meds.....never ending cycle..........

Micmel

Lita~you're not alone, no you're not. I am also stage four and I hate every single second of it. I am sitting with you and feel the same way you feel everyday. I live everyday scared of everything big or little at this point. Most of my family left me even before the cancer diagnosis, so I don't have really much support from the word family. My kids are older but too young to grasp that their mother is dying slowly. Or fast, however you want to look at. I am scared and have no idea what is coming my way... other than progression. That is inevitable, that I know. Lita, I am with you when you hurt, I am with you when you're sitting alone. I am with you when you pet Sofia! I have the bone pain in my back that feels like chewing non stop. It's relentless and extremely painful, and it would drive any normal person extremely mad. It's actually like living hell. It breaks my heart to read that post Lita. But I'm with you and I understand, from the bottom of my heart and from every tear i shed isn't just for me it's for us all. Our MBC and BC family. I would say god bless you. But I've prayed so many times for everything and everyone and the pain and suffering still continues. So I am at a loss, we all are. This is just to much to bare sometimes. Sometimes even I feel like giving up, but then it hits me, that's not even an option either. So we go through this awful path that we were thrown into with out choice. We walk it, limp in some cases from day to day! Lita, I hope you know I feel what you're feeling, I understand the fight within not only your body, but your crystal clear mind, and beautiful soul. I would be hugging you and holding your hand if I was able. ~M~

Lita57

Micmel,

Thanks

Micmel

Lita~ hope you're doing better today. Just checking on you!! Hugs ~M~

MeToo14

Cancer sucks! Olivia Newton-John just announced she is now stage four after being NED since 1992. What the hell! I wonder why I even try. It seems inevitable that cancer will win. It's just so disheartening to hear something like that. My heart breaks for her and her family.

I feel like I should just give up. The fear is with me constantly, I should just accept this is how I go out. I've been having pain in my abdomen and shortness of breath for a while now, my ultrasound is next week. I'm pretty sure what the outcome will be. I guess all I've done is bought myself some time. I realize how I sound but it is hard to be upbeat when cancer keeps punching you in the face.

coachvicky

MeToo14

I am so sorry to read this. Don't give up please.

Vicky

Micmel

Meetoo~ I know it truly sucks badly. I hate it right along with you, its pretty damn horrible. But we have no choice but to soldier on together. Every freaking ache and pain I am sure that it's cancer. It just proves money and fame can't buy you everything either. I pray for her and her dear family. It's a hard road. But please don't ever give up you have people who love you,and these days we can actually live for years if it doesn't progress too fast. You would think that with ER positive cancer being the most common cancer that they would know more about how to eradicate it. It makes no sense but you are not alone at all. We are here. Gentle hug ~ M~

runor

I'm all for calling a spade a spade and I admit that when I heard that after being fine for 25 years that this filthy cancer can jump out of the woods and come back like that, yeah, it kicked the legs out from under me. It is hard to find hope or a positive lining in any of this. Plus I hate people telling me to be positive or look on the bright side. I want to poke those people in the eye.

But it was 25 years ago that she was treated. If she had chemo, it would have been first or second generation and we supposedly have better treatments now. If she can get 25 years with treatments that now would be consider antique, does that put us currently or recently treated in that much better place? I sure hope so. Heading into chemo, I'm banking on it.

Artista928

One of my RN infusion nurses is 25 years NED. She took the same meds I did. But at that time there were no AIs, just Tamox, so maybe.. It would help if we knew her bc profile. Many people call bc starting at DCIS while we here call that pre-cancer. I wish her well. She's such a nice and uplifting person who so many look up to. Just so sad.

Janett2014

I too am sorry to hear of Olivia Newton John's progression.

Artista928, I respectfully disagree with your statement "Many people call bc starting at DCIS while we here call that pre-cancer ." I have seen this issue discussed in lots of different threads. DCIS is cancer because DC means Ductal CARCINOMA. Of course the IS part of the acronym means it is contained and hasn't spread (In Situ). I personally might call that pre-invasive but NOT pre-cancer because it definitely IS cancer.

Anyway, I'm not trying to be argumentative or critical; just wanted to say that there is some disagreement even among members at BCO as to the definition of DCIS.

My3riddlegirls

Wow! I think I have found part of my answer to a question I didn't know I had. Well, actually, I do question it on a daily basis. Am I normal??? Finding this room, and you ladies, makes me realize I am normal. My new "stupid" normal. A hormonal-less, 35 year old woman, married for 16 years (together 19), with 3 girls. Identical twins who are 15 on Thursday and an 8 year old. Forced menopause and puberty don't mix. My husband is a saint who I would like to throat punch on a daily basis. I was just telling my brother, who I work for and love, that I feel like a teenager again with my moods and brain function. He understands me and told me I should go to counseling. I should but I know I won't! I'm not paying for that!

My life has been hell since September 2013. I was 31.

Late August- Early September -

Awesome family vacation to Florida with my 2 brothers and our families. We stayed at the beach for a week then Disney for a week.

Early September-

My dad had a heart attack at Hollywood Studios and we left him and my mom in Orlando for what ended up being over a month due to needing open heart surgery.

Mid September-

On a Thursday, I feel a lump in my left armpit while shaving and get an appointment to see my GYN the next day. They rush me in for a mammogram and I had a biopsy the next Wednesday.

October 2014 -

DX with DCIS Stage 2B-3A . 13 nodes taken out. I can't remember how many were positive. ER PR + HER2-. I Got my port placed and started Chemo. 4 doses of Adriamycin and Cytoxan, every other week and 4 doses of Taxol. I finished on January 29, 2014.

February 21, 2014 -

I had a double mastectomy with tissue expanders. All cancer was GONE!

April 2014-

Started 21 doses of radiation.

September 2014 -

Total Hysterectomy. They took EVERYTHING. AM I still female? NO boobs NO internal vaginal parts?!

December 9, 2014 -

Healed from Radiation and had reconstruction surgery with gummy implants.

January 3, 2015 -

My incision on the radiation side opened up and the plastic surgeon was able to save my implant and major stitching was done. I held my arm in a sling for 4 months to have it heal from the inside and not pull.

April 2015 -

I started working for my brothers after being a stay-at-home mom for 13 years. My dad left my mom after 35 years of marriage for an older woman. He doesn't understand why we are upset and threatened us and we haven't seen him since Jan 2016. We were all very close. He changed after his heart attack and was jealous of the "attention" I was getting.

My older brother was coughing and I MADE him go to the walk-in for a chest xray. Turns out it flipped our world upside down again. He had a mole that was melanoma removed in 2009 and was told margins were clear live your life with no follow up. We now know that is bullshit!! His melanoma had spread from his brain to the heal of his foot. The mass in his left lung was as big as a man's fist.

January 2016

My brother and I were able to stay with my older brother (35) nonstop thanks to our families. He passed away in January 2016. Leaving us with his non-functioning alcoholic wife.Losing my brother to cancer has been, by far, the hardest thing I've ever been through. My aunt died at 36 from colon cancer, my brother at 35, and I am scared to death it'll be me soon.

Reading some of these posts was great! I feel angry and happy and sad and stupid all at the same time. I know I am unreasonable but I can't help it! I am upping my effexor to the max dose and hopefully that will help. I will be back to read more later. I must get back to work now before my bro comes in.

Micmel

my3riddle~you're not stupid and are allowed to feel whatever you need to feel. I want to bang my head against the wall daily. Knock myself cold. Then i do not have to feel. You're not alone. I fight for my family. Because I love them. I am sorry cancer has been such a part of your life. It blows the big one. I will add you to my very long list of prayers. By this time you would think I would have a red hot phone line directly To heaven, I have been praying so much. I will admit I chuckled at your throat punch comment. I feel like doing to that because of what stupid people allow to come out of their mouths. Do they have brains.? Even if I am sensitive, which I am. Give me a break. Or at least just don't say anything. It's hard to keep the flame alive going throughthis kind of disfiguring surgery and diagnosis. Not only physical but mentally. Who wants a one boobed, krusty the clown curly ass hair, road map for a chest and stomach. Oh and did I mention weight packing on and I don't even open my mouth to eat much?? Yeah baby! That's sexy. NOT!! I so much miss the old me. I was happy then. I am not happy now. I love my DH with all of my heart and he has been amazing. He never complains, he just tells me he loves me no matter what. I feel blessed and cursed all in one minute. Isn't that a mind fuc*? You're unfortunately correct when you say, it's going to be a long, exhausting battle everyday from now on....that's the hard part. It is truly suffering to feel as we are forced to feel. Not to mention that feeling of total despair leaving those you love possibly? Worlds blown up. And there is that shitty cancer, spreading its evil seeds. How I wish I could kick the living shi* out of it... for all of us. Prayers all around always. ~M~

Lita57

My3riddle...when should we file the papers to start your canonization for Sainthood? (BTW, we're ALL saints here at BC.org )

You've been thru SO MUCH in such a very short time!

I HATE effing cancer with every fiber of my being.....even MORE when it strikes YOUNGER women! My Heavens, we are just starting to LIVE our lives when we enter our 30s. We've figured out who we are, our place in the world, families are stabilizing, our career trajectories are taking off, we're putting money aside for cool vacations, and then BAMM!

It's NOT FAIR!

That being said, sorry to welcome you to "the Club no one wants to join."

We're here to support you and listen to your rants.

Hope to hear from you again soon.

Lita

runor

My dear, long suffering husband. I want to hit him on the head with a rock! God forgive me, that is an awful thing to say, but OH MY GOD I am so frustrated with him. So disappointed and so betrayed feeling.

Yes, he has come to every appointment, but not without a fight. He does not react well to change, in fact he will do anything in his power to make sure that his set routine is not impacted by ANYTHING outside his own realm of operation. Well I am sorry to say that me having cancer is about to have a MAJOR disrupting effect and he is acting like nothing has changed. I have asked, begged and pleaded for him to acknowledge this situation with a temporary change in his behaviour - not even forever, just for now - nope. The support I have asked for is not going to be delivered.

I truly think this is his way of dealing - to NOT deal. If he denies, denies, denies that I need something it is, in his mind, and effective way to deny that there is something wrong. If he refuses to change himself because I have cancer I will then not have cancer! Magic. Wait, no, not magic, damaging to relationships. I want to shake him and scream DUDE, WAKE UP! But he just goes about life as if nothing has changed. He drives me to doctors and sits in offices but aside from that, it's business as usual.

I think this cancer has changed me, scared me, rocked my false sense of security. Chemo, radiation and hormone destruction is also going to change me in profound and perhaps permanent ways. A scarred, off kilter boob is also there as a daily reminder. It is both numb and painful at the same time. I am being steamrolled under all this bullshit, all this mourning and terror and he is .... acting like it's just another day.

He has said that he isn't sure chemo and radiation and tamoxifen are worth it. Wait. What? Are you saying that the steps I take to save my life might not be worth it? And while I agree that there needs to be strong reasons to do these things, and I might say no to some of it, I wonder about his motives. You'd think he'd be begging me to take every option to stay alive, to prolong my life. I really don't know his motivation for saying that maybe chemo and radiation just "don't seem worth it." I have to think that the mess and illness and disruption these treatments might cause is something he doesn't want to deal with. Again, it's about HIS comfort with HIS routine and him trying to keep it from being messed up by me being a sicky.

I feel really kicked to the curb. In these last days before we know where this is going, I've asked him to be present with me. Instead he's asleep on the sofa with the remote in his hand. I love him. But I want to beat him with a rock.

Micmel

Runor~ you're not alone. My children are on that same road of denial. My daughter says to me last night at like 645. We need to spend more time together, ok goodnight. So I sat by myself for hours until bed. She could have stayed downstairs and watched something we both like. I am always alone, I am always waiting to go to bed honesty. That is the only place I can get away from the diagnosis, and this forced new life I've been living. I'm sorry you feel kicked to the curb. I just hate this disease,I have issues myself, because I feel like a failure, I was always the one constant reliable parent. I can't imagine why a god in heaven would put our families in such a hard way. It makes no sense at all. Hang in there together, because we have no choice. I believe he's just scared for you both ,and chemo is tough !! I'll be praying for you, that he wakes up . ~M~

kathindc

Oh rumor, I hear your pain. Mine finally started taking me to appointments but I might as well have had a rock with me. Did my research, read it over. Gave it to him thinking he would do the same. Asked a couple of times over the course of about six weeksif he had looked it over only to be told I was nagging him every couple of days. Four days before my appointment with my surgeon, I had to beg him to look it over so we could have a discussion. He finally did and said to me it's your choice. WTH! He has been no support since. Was actually told, "Get over it." six months after surgery when I reacted to a pain that ran across one of my scars. I feel like I live with a complete stranger now.

runor

Micmel:

I read a lot. Most of what I read goes in one ear and out the other. I have a bad memory. But I read somewhere, and it stuck with me like glue, that if you reach the age of 45 without someone very close and significant in your life dying, that you will spend the rest of your adulthood in a perpetual state of ignorance about reality. I thought that sentiment had real truth in it.

My dad died when I was 27. It affected me deeply. I was very close to my Grandmother and I was young when she passed. I have had many friends pass. I have seen death and been slapped in the face by the utter insanity of it and the horrifying permanence. I remember after my dad died, for a long time I'd catch a glimpse of someone who looked like him and I would have that momentary skipped heartbeat where I was overjoyed that he was here! Back! That this whole death thing was just a stupid, horrible joke. It took a long time to accept the finality and foreverness of him being gone.

My husband, at 55, still has both his parents. He was not at all fond of his grandparents. He has had only a few friends pass and not that close to them anyway. He is that person who hit 45 without the reality of life and death hitting him in the face. It has always been an arm's length event for him. He is making damn sure it remains that way now. The effect of which is to make me feel utterly shut out at a time I need to be reached for and held tight. Worse, he is failing to grasp this to maintain his own comfort. Which I think is criminal. Okay, screw this up for a day or two and them realize that Big Shit is happening and step the hell up to provide the support that I have asked for in plain English, the language of your birth! There is no misunderstanding what I want. There is just deciding that delivering it is too much discomfort so ..... no.

Kids. They don't get it either. Not many. Self centred. I feel for you, I truly do, and I know what you mean, as mine has her face glued permanently to her cell phone. So many things I want to hit with rocks today....

Micmel

Runor~ & Kathi~ I have no idea why we are in this shit soup, I can never once complain about my DH. He has been a saint since day one. Asking questions to my onc, always taking care of me, holding me when I lose my mind and cry, because I just don't understand. It is everyone else that I would like to borrow your rock for. I went into the bank the other day and the teller who I know, knows that I have cancer asks me why I went and cut my hair. !? Excuse me what? I didn't cut my hair. I lost my hair because of chemotheraphy, say it Keemotherapie, I didn't want to lose my middle of my back beautiful mane that I have been growing for years. I didn't want to lose my hair and have everyone stare at me when I even ride in the damn car. No I didn't. Thank you very much. I had no effin choice. And I effin hate mostly every minute of everyday now. The ONLY reason I hang on is because of my DH and the amazing love I have with him,and for him. I don't know how he is able to be so strong and so kind and loving at the same time. I cant be as physically active in the bedroom, and that bothers me. But he is so sweet and just waits without complaint, which makes me not want to take him for granted, so I take care of him because I love him, and none of this is his fault either. But he has lost both parents and grand parents. I am his life as he is mine. We have three kids. Ages 21,20&16 and they are still growing up. But they just don't understand what picking up slack is. Shit , they don't even clean up after themselves very well. Annoys me to no end. Still sleeping machines, I have to bribe someone to run to the store. Most times I just drag myself out and take care of it because I don't feel like worrying about it , if I do it, it is just one less thing I don't have to ask for. I have never hated something as much as I do cancer. And I don't think I ever will. I look in the mirror and I hate what I see. My hair was straight, now it's horribly curly, I had the color I wanted. Well we all know it doesn't grow back that way, I am happy I have hair don't get me wrong. I have that inner voice telling me not to get too used to having it again , because at some point they are going to tell me i have to have that shitty chemo again. I am not going there again. My body can't take it. In my opinion it's just like whack a mole. At least my last scan was stable. I don't have to see him(oncagain for three months. And as long as I remain stable. I won't need another scan for a while. Right now. That's all I have. Hugs for you all. Nothing about this is easy NOTHING!!! ~M~

Lita57

Runor, I don't know what to say. It sucks. But if DH won't give you the support, you may have to let some stuff go or find the support elsewhere. I was always pretty fastidious about my house being clean and organized, but my DH and DD hardly do a thing and frankly couldnt care less.

So the house looks like hell now...except for my bedroom...I do keep that up. Kitchen floor hasn't been scrubbed in weeks. When their bare feet start sticking to it maybe they'll mop it. When we run out of milk, I tell them to go and buy some. I get my calcium from other sources.

I tell them, "Get used to it. Pretty soon I literally won't be here and then you'll have to do EVERYTHING for yourselves or hire a housekeeper."

Sadly I don't think your DH will ever get it. I lost my mom when I was 17. Three of my grandparents were already dead b4 I was born, and I lost my maternal grandmother when I was 23. I get it. You may have to think about living a separate life...yes, your DH seems to have already written you off, saying chemo and rads may not be worth it. Does he expect you to just give up and die? What a son of a you know what!

It's time to live YOUR LIFE. Find help and support elsewhere. To heck with him. You're beating your head against a brick wall. I'm sorry to say that this happens to a lot of women. My love and prayers are with you.

runor

Micmel. Your post. Powerful. I stand in respect and solidarity with everything you said. It takes my breath away.

Lita57, my friends and I, when we complain about our partners, break their stupidity down into two categories. Stupid on purpose or stupid by accident. Stupid by accident is given more leniency than stupid on purpose. I think is this case with my Hub, he is terrified into being paralyzed. But there is also that extreme self involvement that has been his life pattern. Frankly I'd bet everything I own on him being somewhat autistic, definitely on the spectrum. If he was a kid in school now he'd be tagged and special steps would be taken to help him cope with life. But back in the day, poor kid from a poor family in a small, rural school...he fell through the cracks and life has been harder for him in many ways than most of us. But the reality of this is that the concept of OTHERS is one he refuses and blocks out and pushes away in the extreme. He is open to having people in his life as long as their lives do not clash with his needs, wants and chosen goals. We have a great relationship until I need something and then holy shit, everything goes to hell in a hand basket! I cannot mess up his trajectory with my existence.

When I first was diagnosed my instant thought was that I am not ready to leave my husband. Boom! That washed over me like a tidal wave. I love him. I want him. But that does not change the fact that he fails to show up in a solid way. He does show up body wise, if I make him, remind him and threaten him. But aside from that, his life is the way it is and that's the way he needs it and any change to that will be met with hostility. He is not an asshole either on purpose or by accident, but almost by a fluke of birth. I think.

So it is possible to love someone to pieces and still feel utterly alone. Which is sort of how I feel. I am very needy right now. Needy is not my role. Doer, giver, take the back seat, go without, make the sacrifice, that is my role THE ROLE OF MOST WOMEN WITH FAMILIES! And when we change the status quo, we get pushback. I get angry when I read about adult aged kids not helping - but my own is no different!!! The only difference is when I ask for something and she grumbles about it I tell her to pack and move out and live where life is better than it is here. Because here she has obligations and the one true way to duck out is to pay rent and utilities elsewhere. Buh bye.

Reading over this I realize I sound like a psycho bitch, claiming to love her husband and wanting to hit him with a rock at the same time. But that is my truth. Not sure what to say about that.

Lita57

I hope I didn't sound too callous, Runor, but I've just seen this too many times in my LIVE support groups. I'm certainly not saying END the r'ship, but you're going to have to put yourself first and find ways to do it.

You are FIGHTING for your life, and if he doesn't want to fight with you, you will have to find support among your friends. Can someone else go to dr appts with you? Can someone bring you a meal now and then or just come over and sit with you and help you fold laundry?

I hope you can find someone to help in areas where your DH won't. We have all had friends and family members abandon us since dx. They just don't want to hear it...it makes them more cognizant of their own vulnerability and mortality.

Are there any LIVE support groups in your area either thru your hospital or local cancer support/education center? I know it's tough...there is one MBC group that's 45 mins away and another about an hour & 15 mins away from me if there's no traffic. I also have a small group at my local church, but it's for ALL types of cancer (men & women), and it only meets a couple times a month. But at least I can commiserate there and get some insight and support from them. We share and help each other.

Social workers can be helpful too. They can provide helpful resources. Other savvy women will provide insights, too. It wouldn't hurt to get some counselling during this.

We cannot change others; we can only change how we choose to view the situation, how we react to it and how to manage it.

Hope this is a little more optimistic 😁.

Mimi2kleh

I makes me SO mad when I hear about husbands and grown children not helping; not being emotionally supportive, and not helping physically around the house. They are just plain selfish. I am so sorry for those of you who have to deal with that.

I live alone, and therefore deal with most everything myself, and sometimes it is very hard, but it's better than having to deal with that. I am divorced, and that's good now, because I know he would not be very supportive. I have two grown sons, who alway make sure someone takes me to all my appts/treatments, they are great. I feel bad relying on them too much, because they both have jobs that require many hours a week, and they are raising their families. And sometimes it is hard to talk about things with them, because they are men! Having a daughter would be easier with breast cancer. So I keep most of the emotional stuff to myself, and have the occasional breakdown. I was on meds for depression before cancer. And now I don't think I will ever get off them.And as happens, I have lost all my friends. The first group left after the divorce, even though my ex was a bastard and a cheater, and they all sided with me, but I guess they just didn't know what to do with a single person. Then after the first BC dx, and living with PMPS, Iost one best friend to cancer. And the final two this past year. I know it happens a lot, but I will never understand how family and friends ditch people when they are going thru the hardest thing in their life. CANCER SUCKS!

Micmel

Mimi~ I can't imagine doing any of this alone. Somedays when I wake up, I just want to go back to bed. It is the only place where I get a relief from my mind over processing that I have cancer. You're a strong woman. Obviously, someone who knows what life is about and knows that they gotta do what they gotta do. I want to light a fire cracker up and under my bigger kids ass, and see if they even notice its going to burn them. I know it seems kinda my fault also being an enabler. Their father and I divorced when my youngest was 8, but their step father is better than the real thing. He Didn't hold a job, still pays child support and my oldest is 21,youngest 20. Just not reliable. So I can also say I know that If was still married to him, it would not be good. He just wouldn't be able to handle it. But my current DH of 14 years is amazing. I know my kids are in denial, I am the only parent they really know, I was the one who raised them. We did. So for this to happen to their closest parent seems so wrong and just mean. I sometimes wonder what's up there. If anything or anyone is even listening. It's a scary thought, but I find my mind going there. Just does......I have never been overally religious, but something's gotta give. Enough is enough. It's time for good things to happen. For a while now shitty things have just been happening everywhere. It's like psycho land! All I can do is one day at a time. One fit bit hour at a time. I'm going to try to run at least one day this week, I wore myself out last week with three days of 40min runs. Now this week I am exhausted mentally and physically!! ~M~

runor

This whole cancer thing is terrifying on so many levels and one of them, one that I hate to admit, may be the end of my marriage.

My husband is a good guy. Everyone loves him. I love him! He does everything for everyone. If you call with a problem he will run to your side. And someone else will call, and someone else will call, and someone after that....

My Hub is addicted to being a hero, he is addicted to being adored. He is addicted to showing up at your house and cleaning your gutters for you and having done that one thing, you will remember him fondly forever and recall that time he really helped you out of a bind.

Well, I get into binds too. But guess what? When I am in a bind and look around for help, I am alone. I have dealt with so much life shit completely on my own because my husband is absent, run off, helping someone else. Saving the day for someone else. You see, your wife, with whom you have a sustained and ongoing relationship wants sustained and ongoing input - that is a lot of output for him without ever getting that 'oh my god you are my hero' high that he gets from helping out, once, people who are not his intimate partners. He puts out minimal effort for maximum addiction release. With me, what I need from him is ongoing, I need a lifetime of sustaining and relating and that is too much work. He wants a quick fix,. A cheap and easy hero hit.

People have said horrible things about me for the past 30 years, that I do not 'appreciate' the good guy I have. Those same people have zero concept of the neglect that has been handed to me. How could they? All they know is that my Hub helped them with something. What they do not grasp is that while he is helping them and everyone else, he is gone, absent, not available for me! This is not an accident. This is the life he designed. This is the life he finds most rewarding. This is what he wants. He does what he wants. If it hurts me ... that's MY fault for being hurt, not HIS fault for being hurtful.

I have been told that we can't change people. This is true. It is the job of every human to look at how they are affecting someone else and if they are being asswads, it's their responsibility to change, or leave. But to stay and hand out neglect and passive abuse is NOT OKAY. IT is not my job to change my husband. It is his job to care enough about me to change himself!! And this is where things fall apart.

To the many people who take the view that people can't change I say, bullshit. We are born shitting our pants and eating with our hands. If you reach adulthood NOT shitting in your pants and NOT eating with your hands, you have demonstrated a capacity to change and learn and do things a different way. So the belief that people can't change is dead wrong. People CAN. The people who DO NOT change are doing so as a deliberate, obtuse, hateful decision. They are perfectly capable of change, they just don't think they have a good enough reason to change.

Now, with this cancer diagnosis, I have asked my husband, pleaded, for change. I have asked him to please cut out all the addictive other serving that he does and please just be here. With me. I want him by me, close to me, I want to see him at the end of the work day and I want to spend the weekends with him. I want to work beside him getting out do-list worked through. I want us to Be Together. It is desperately important to me right now, Please, please, please step up and deliver. If ever there was a time to set aside self serving and frankly selfish interest, it's now. Yes, I am needy right now. But considering how I have done everything alone for the past 30 years, I think this is not an unreasonable request.

Hub thinks it is.

And that is one failure too many for my old ticker to take. Hearing that I have cancer was a huge, cold stone in my stomach. Realizing that my husband is not going to change anything to help me through is the stone that will sink me as I flail to keep my head above water. It's like he's saying, 'well you might have cancer but I don't and I see no reason to allow your cancer to affect my life so...'

My heart and soul need a win. I need him to be my hero. I am not asking him to quit his job or give up after work beer with his friends. I am asking him to limit the outside people he serves, because the list of people who expect him to do things for them is endless. I am married to a generous helper whose helping of others is a form of socially rewarded spousal abuse. The Nice Guy. I need him to be MY nice guy and I fear, to my core, that failure to deliver means I will die alone. Now or later, this is the make or break moment in our marriage. We are on thin ice as it is. I feel doubly shit on.

goodprognosis

Runor

I've been following your posts. That last one was incredible! Boy, do you have an understanding of relationships and the balance needed in them.

Could I make the suggestion that you copy this last, amazingly clear, post and print it out for him to read.

If he doesn't do something then, to address those incredibly well articulated problems within your marriage, yes, I would be concerned. Then at least a different strategy would have to be employed by you, counselling on your own, or visiting a Solicitor for advice (what we call Attorneys).

My heart goes out to you. You should not have to deal with two bereavements - for that's what's happening here from what you've explained.

What do you think of my suggestion, is it worth a shot?

Micmel

runor~while I don't have the DH issues you have, I can understand the pulling at him from others, work,scout pack,ex bitch oh I mean wife, who can't parent on her own, always whining. She has no idea what hard life is all about. Step into our shoes sister!! What I came away with from your posting, Is you need to let him read our forum. Let him read others. Just drop it in his lap and let him read away. Not just your words but others. He seems to be into what others think. Let him take a gander of some suffering and pain that we endure daily. I agree behaviors can change. Sometimes I look to their parents to see what kind of up bringing they had, but I believe you mentioned they were no longer around. Now is the time to spell it out, now is the time you need to have all of your team dressed and ready to take the field. You mentioned the ending of your marriage. I think he needs to be hit with the reality shock button. Let him see it in writing in all statements it made here to us. The support you're not getting. Spell it out, talk to him like you would To to this forum, just in a kind manner and raw emotion that you clearly have. When I read that you want to be together and you need him be want him around. Those are things that you Should want. That's normal, so please don't think that anything you need is wrong it's not. I realize with my diagnosis I feel like I'm drawing my last breath some days it so heavy and emotional. But I'm fighting like hell and you need to as well. If you're stage two you can totallykick some cancer ass and be done with this. But the aftermath of this battle can't be a marriage that has been alive for so many years. If you find you're beating a drum and no ones dancing after in your heart you've given it all to him and gotten no support from him. He needs to be told look buddy. I see things differently now. I am different now. And I need you. If you aren't willing to be my partner and help me live, then what do we have ? Ask him the questions but make him give you the answers. You deserve to speak your mind and be heard. Tell him point blank actions speak louder than words. Gentle hugs to you. I know I am not your DH, hell im not even a man. But I know deep down inside, they really do want to be our heroes. Sometimes they just need to be pushed off a cliff like what has happened to us. Will send some prayers of strength ~M~

runor

I made that post.

I had a bath.

I thought I should delete that post as it is just more of the same bitching and complaining I have done for years. It makes me sound like a demanding, traitorous bitch.

Hub tells me all I do is find things to complain about. I thought, maybe he has a point. But then I thought more and realized that the things I complain about are the SAME things all the time. The agony I express is the agony that has gone unattended for all these years. I am, overall, mostly content and low maintenance. I've been driving the same truck for 21 years now! We live a humble life. I do not want diamonds, furs, world trips or to keep up with the Jonses. I just want his willing and happy presence, relaxed, unhurried, as he has coffee with me, or sits in a waiting room with me. I HATE the feeling that he is always checking his watch because he knows someone else is waiting for him, someone else wants his attention. I HATE that! I want him to make me safe, make his attention my special gift, by blocking out all others who crash the boundaries of our intimate space with their demands. But be clear, if they crash the boundaries, it's not because they intend to disrupt us. THe fault is not theirs. The fault is Hub's, for not applying the brakes, for not saying no, for not tolerating his own discomfort at NOT being a hero to everyone else.

He knows all this. There is nothing in anything I've written that he hasn't heard a thousand times. I am clear and concise, I do not expect him to read my mind.

So. I came here to delete that last post of mine. But I won't. I do not say I hate him. I do not hate him. I am nuts about him. But it cuts me to the soul that he is so very casual about tending my needs. He is not mean, he does not hit me or yell at me or tell me I'm fat or stupid. He just....doesn't...see me. His head long rush to make sure he feels good all the time, by saving the world one deed at a time, is an addiction, it is abusive, it is neglectful and it is time he quits it. I will allow my words to stand. God forgive me.

Mimi2kleh

Runor, glad you're not going to delete your post. It's your feelings, and you have a every right to feel them. You are NOT demanding! Asking, begging your spouse for some support, is not demanding. It's a right that any wife deserves. As you now know, he will never change, if your cancer diagnosis didn't do it, nothing will. Your words speak volumes, such as agony, and cutting you to your soul. This breaks my heart, as I know it does yours, and this is no way to live, in any circumstances, let alone when you're fighting this awful disease. You do not need the constant emotional upset and stress. I think some counseling would be good, and if he won't go (which I'm assuming he won't), go yourself. Please keep us posted, and keep venting here, better to get it out, than hold it in! Sending some prayers your way, for added strength to deal with this mess, one way or another. 🙏✌🏼️💜

Micmel, one of my sons was totally in denial when his dad left us. It was too painful for him think that his dad could do all of the horrible things he did. I'm sure your kids are doing the same. It's too painful for them to even conceive they might lose their mom. Some counseling for them might be helpful in that matter. However, it doesn't mean they should be allowed to not help you. Even if you have enabled them in the past to get away with it, now is the time to remedy that. Sit down with them and explain, that you are having a hard time physically, and you need their help. They are definitely old enough! Tell them you are starting something new, called chores! Don't ask them for help, tell them what they need to do, and make sure they do it. Let them moan and complain if need be, after all that's what kids do, as long as they do the work. Make lists if you need to, or set consequences if not done, whatever it takes to get the help you need. Your hubby should be helping in this matter, where is he as far as physical help?

Lita57

Micmel, I second what Mimi says. Your kids aren't pre-schoolers any more. They need to start REALLY helping.

I used to have a BIG problem with my DD b4 I was even dx'd. I had to lay the law down. I told her even back then that some day she would have her own apartment and SHE'D have to take care of it because I certainly wasn't going to drive across town (much less fly, if she settled in another state) and clean and cook for her. It was hard, but she finally got the picture.

Now she WANTS to help with cooking because she knows my months are numbered and she wants to learn all the old Italian and Mexican recipes that are stuck in my head. My mother was old school...she never wrote recipes down. We learned by watching and tasting. DD likes to watch Lidia Bastianich and Martha Stewart and try those cooking ideas now, too.

We are not doing our kids any favors by not teaching them how to take care of themselves: meal plan, shop for groceries, cook, clean, do their own laundry. Even if we didn't have cancer, we're not going to live forever. Any of us could die from a heart attack, get killed driving down the highway, etc. Most of us who are in our 40s or older learned how to do all this stuff when we were teenagers. My mom initially came down with soft tissue sarcoma cancer when I was 12, so I had to learn all that stuff at a younger age.

Nevertheless, it's hard to implement a chore program when the kids are older. [That's why I always say get them started when they're in primary school...they can clear the kitchen table, sort and fold clothes and put stuff away when they're 6 years old and even younger.] So you'll have to sit them down and have the proverbial "come to Jesus meeting" with them. As long as your kids don't have major psychological or developmental issues, they'll be able to handle the TRUTH when you sit down and lay it out for them.

My mom's sarcoma came back when I entered high school.

She died.

I want to thank her for being strict with my 4 brothers and me because we can all take care of ourselves. It was hard taking care of the household after she was gone...I was still only a teenager. But it would have been much harder if I hadn't learned how to cook, clean and do laundry long b4 she died.

Micmel

Thanks ladies, and I agree with you completely. my DH and I have two homes. His job is in one place for the week and on long holidays and weekends, he is here with me and our house here. We basically take care of two households, I have two kids from my first marriage and he has a son from his, believe it or not we met online by chance, and here we are 14 years later still together. My DD is a student and so is my DS, she works full time and he is a part time student and he also works the rest of the time. They are good kids, and i have basically raised them myself. Had a bad divorce and then found the love of my life. They have their chores, my DS mows the lawn, they do their own laundry. When I feel ok, i don't mind helping. It's the little nagging shit like dishes in the sink in the morning or finding them in their rooms. Overflowing laundry baskets instead of doing smaller loads, shoes all over or being reminded weekly to put out the trash. I also know they have eyes, if the floor needs sweeping or vacuuming, then just freaking do it, my DH takes care of that home three hours away during the week and shared custody of his son there during the week. He is a soon to be junior and has just made Eagle Scout. He has chores at the house there.We have a very close family and we have blended extremely well. My DH is always working and traveling and I refuse to have him do anything here when he walks in the house after working and driving three hours after a long ass week. I want them to recognize things as adults without being followed around all the time. Just open their eyes and see it. Like I had to when my first husband and I split. I took care of everything and if I am honest I kinda still do, even though some days I feel like absolute shit. Last week I jogged about 11 miles. And it felt great. I cleaned ithe entire house and that includes the bathrooms and floors. I was a Tasmanian devil. I even weeded the side yard garden. Alone. And they were big ass thistle weeds. Mini trees. I overall do pretty Darn good. I just don't want to continually ask. I didn't ask them if they wanted me to keep a roof over their heads all these years while their father hid from the courts and paying child support. I have told them pretty much what could happen, and they have been to doctors with me And they both always drive me. They get me food and do grocery trips. They are trying. I know inside they are scared. I have always been the one they could count on. Their closest relative. To me it just seems mean. That this would happen to our little family. We never hurt anyone. This disease just hurts too many families and good people. I just don't always know the right things to say. I don't want to be looked at as weak and needy either. I always kicked ass. I never let anything keep me down. I did what I had to do and live a great life. I have always gotten what I wanted. I guess we are all still in shock. Even though it's been over a year now. I just pray the medicine keeps working. I just pray. Thank you for the advice. I think I'm going to drag out the ole white board and magic markers. Designate things without speaking. Yes yes I am!! Chore board making A return appearance!! Goodnight ladies! ~M~