Saw "Save the Tatas" & felt like crying

duckyb1

I went back and re-read the original post by Amontro.............will someone please tell me how this ended up in a vile, accusing, name calling, insulting, nasty number of posts that has just turned a simple question asked by Amontro, into something very ugly. and very unbecoming to women who are here to support each other............

I even got a PM accusing me of saying things I did not say, repeating words from another post by another woman and not me...........go back and see if I ever used the expression "marinating", but I was told I did,  and was quite upset by it........We all have our battles, some just starting, many recurrances, and many fighting the battle of their lives............My heart goes out to every women on this webiste, and to receive an insulting PM was less then decent, so as I said in the beginning........how did a simple question and comment, end up in this vile confrontation between people who are suppose to care........I doubt I will be back here, needless to say, I do not need this in my life, there are too many other places to go. However if I see any comments directed at me I will respond, and . For anyone who had nothing to do with this, this post was not meant for you, for the people who did, you know who you are.............................Hugs to the people who care. 

Lynn18

So, the word "marinate" has been used so much here that I had to look it up on "Urban Dictionary".  You might want to find a better word . . . just sayin.

mspradley:  I thought the story about the guys in your life donning pink bracelets was very sweet . . .my teenage son shaved his head when I lost my hair during chemo. 

duckyb1

Lynn18........the only time I ever heard that word used was in reference to my London Broil, so the word is foreing to me when being used in any other fashion.........that is how I knew I had not used it on my post..................oh well I have bigger fish to fry.........

duckyb1

Wow, thank God someone who wants to talk and not fight.........yes I love London Broil, but we only have it at my summer home down the shore in South Jersey..........Looking forward to it this year..........not sure why, guess its a summer grilling thing........hugs nancy

Lynn18

duckyb1:  I am sorry you received an insulting PM. . . I guess my comment was directed at the person who first used "marinate". . . anyway, all the talk about London Broil is making me hungry.

Mazy1959

JB..There really are ladies here, including myself, who have no choice but to deal with their cancer everyday for the rest of our lives. Maybe instead of acting  so uncaring, you should actually read what some of us go thru. Maybe you should take the time to learn what all we lost in addition to our breasts and our health. Not that you would give a damn but I lost alot and so did many others. Its hard to not think about breast cancer when I get my measly SSDI check each month as it reminds me that I can no longer work at jobs I loved and had great benefits. I "marinate" in my cancer everytime I have to stop walking cause I'm in too much pain to go any further. My body moves only with the aid of opiate drugs that take awhile to kick in. Oh and by all means I marinate when I can no longer sleep in bed and have to sleep in a recliner to be comfortable enuff to sleep.Theres no avoiding the infusions, the long list of meds and supplements that keep me alive and in enuff comfort that I'm glad to be alive. I do try to stay positive but theres no escaping the losses. I do what I can with what abilities I have left. I was in a wheelchair for the first 3 months after being diagnosed with mets, then a cane for awhile and then finally was able to walk on my own. I have "permanent" nerve damage that causes limited use of everything from the lower back down. I am always in some sort of pain. I have fibromyalgia on top of that so my days are full of coping with pain and taking pills so I can function on this earth. There is no way I can not think about cancer. Cancer is not who I am, it is not my life but it controls alot of my life. I cant just make myself think that I can run again, ride a bike, chase my grandkids, go for an afternoon hike, walk further than a few blocks, spend all day shopping or stand in long lines. You speak as if you think you have all the answers and that all thats wrong with us is that we are basking in having cancer. Its evident you have no idea what you are talking about and you seem to be here only to make people feel worse. If you are able to hike across the country then so what? You wouldnt be able to if you had what I have. Your cruel outbursts only prove how insecure you are. So take your uneducated,   ignorant, demeaning, cruel, heartless rantings and "poof be gone".  .......................Mazy

Mazy1959

Lectures on my above post will be ignored. I'm tired of always being expected to turn the other cheek when I see someone constantly dragging others down. It needed to be said. Goodnight.

mspradley

@ducky - I am so sorry that someone unnecessarily insulted you in a PM. However, I am glad that the rest of us weren't privy to it!



Can we please get back to the original question of the thread? I am interested in the opinions of others, especially if they differ from mine. Hearing diverse perspectives helps me build empathy for what others are feeling.

lisa-e

I highly recommend the book 'Pink Ribbon Blues,' by Gale Sulik.  It addresses the topic. 

Edited to correct the book title. 

Initial BC dx with dcis & idc after lumpectomy & snb in 6/08. in 8/08 dx with multicentric bc (idc) after mri. had bilat mastecomy in 9/08 w/o reconstruction

Beesie

Amontro, I agree.  This disease does not warrant a "happy parade".  I'm sorry that you felt bad when you saw the "Save the TaTas" pink ribbon; your feelings are legitimate and justified.  Of course not everyone feels the same way - we are all individuals and we all look at things differently - but many of us do share your feelings about this.

Lowrider, AnnNYC and Mazy, great posts!

mspradley, since you want to know how others feel, here are links to a couple of other threads on this topic.  I've posted previously in one of those threads so I won't repost here; you can read about how I feel in the other thread.  For all who are defending JB or questioning the harshness of the responses to her, in these threads you can also read the posts from JB and perhaps that will help explain why the reaction to her posts here have been so strong.  This is not a single, isolated incident.  There is a long history here, not just on threads of this topic but all around the board, even in threads where newbies have posted asking for advice and support - just read some of JB's responses to newbies over the past week or so.

Is it me or is this offensive?

and

'Breasts' or 'Boobies'? Does language matter?

As some of you have noticed, I'm not posting on the board much these days.  I have other things going on that are occupying most of my time, and frankly, as someone who comes here mostly to offer support to newbies and those going through the diagnosis and decision process, when I read a post that is insensitive or lacking in empathy, or one that contains biased information, I usually feel compelled to respond. Unfortunately I've found in recent months that responding to these types of posts has become almost a full time job, and it's landed me in too many battles with those who don't seem to understand how their words can be hurtful and how their biased opinions can be harmful.  Maybe at some point I'll come back and take this on again, but right now I just don't have the time or energy for it.  

Edited to try to get links to work.

LtotheK

It's not either/or.  Some of us can be offended by the direction of marketing around this disease, and do other things, too.  I've traveled internationally four times since my diagnosis and chemo last summer, teach full time, run a professional studio practice...

Believe me, I don't allow things to control me.  I do, however, come from an activist background.  So, different strokes.  Nothing wrong with people unpacking the hidden meanings behind marketing efforts. Some very brilliant women, Barbara Ehrenreich among them, are standing up against the pinkness of this disease. There is plenty of good argument around the fact that trivialization of breast cancer actually hinders major research efforts.

I'm Stage 1.  Hey, I could wake up Stage IV any time.  I was under 40 at diagnosis.  Serious business, and I don't forget it.

Most of my friends treated this like a trip to the dentist.  And I'm sorry, Pink October has absolutely contributed to the simplification of this disease.  We don't need more screening, we don't need people thinking "are you okay now?"  We need cures.  The voices of Breast Cancer Action are where I'm at these days.

Enjoyful

I reported JBinOK's "bitching, whining" post. 

JB, contrary to your complimentary beliefs about yourself, I seriously doubt you've helped anyone.  Can you really be that unaware?

Ellie1959

Someone stole the BC pink ribbon for my car someone gave me -is that bad Karma or what?

Lowrider54

The offending PM was sent by me in response to duckyb suggestion that we find something that isn't insulting.  The intent was to let her know how difficult a task that is.  I was hoping for a response like - 'How can I help' but that didn't happen - Here is the PM. 

You mentioned creating something different if we don't like the things - well, it is not all that easy.  I have been working at it for over a year and I need funding (since I am not independently wealthy), donated printing, donated materials, donated time, donated people and so on and in this economy - it isn't happening like it used to.  Presently, I am working with Metavivor - an East Coast-based operation run by a few women to gain awareness for stage iv breast cancer - the terminal kind - the kind I have.  I want to open a MidWest Chapter in order to expand the venue opportunies to hold events.  Hopefully, in another couple of years, a West Coast gal will come along and then a Southern gal - this is how it starts.  There is also StandUp2Cancer - another East Coast-based stage iv organization - these are not about saving boobies, ta-ta's or racks - it is about saving lives, real lives of real people that are passed over during the Pink October garbage.  Likely, I will get this started but I won't be around to finish it - I hope that someone will pick up where I left off and carry on - just because we don't have happy endings doesn't mean we gave up or stopped fighting - we just drew the short stick in the breast cancer world and had it come back and will be a statistic - granted, a little later than before, but it is going to happen - I will be 1 of the 50,000 women and men that die each and every year of breast cancer - and that hasn't changed since 1960 despite the 'progress' and now 1 in 8 women alone will be diagnosed with breast cancer this year (that isn't counting the men) and that figure is rising all the time - caught early, it can be eradicated but it can never be cured.  With better treatment, we are living longer with the disease.  We are no where close to a cure.  Just treatments that are kinder and better.  When they state in a study that they are going to use stage iv folks as if it works for them, it will surely work better for the earlier stages...what the heck does that tell you about the real search for a cure for those of us who are dying from the disease?  I have researched for 12 going on 13 years since I first found my lump - I am headed toward the end of my second year with the metastastic form of the disease.  My prognosis was 12 -36 months.  I am stable at the moment.  I might beat the odds and make for 5 or more years.  I lived those 10+ cancer free years - really lived and I would love to do that again but my body isn't having it this time.  And I don't need someone to tell me I am marinating in it when I have to sleep in diapers every night. Hugs and best to you....LowRider

Elizabeth1959

Mazy

I am so sorry that you have mets with so many horrible complications.  It is ridiculous to think that happy, cheerful thoughts are going to change the reality of your life.  I know that is why tata's, pink ribbons and plattitudes are not going to help me personally cope with breast cancer.  I am in favor of fund raising organizations that fund research looking for more effective treatments.  It would be great if they had the backing of  physicians and basic scientists who could analyze the potential value of the research before providing grant money. Since I had supposedly negative mammograms despite an enormous tumor, I would love to see a more effective diagnositic tool for women with dense breasts.

I am offended by parades and language which sexualizes  breast cancer.  This is deffinitely a fight for a long life.

Lowrider54

And as far as the references to Ms JB - I said it was a RANT - FULL OUT...she was the first responder to this topic that amontro posted - and it wasn't kind or supportive at all and I take great offensive to an individual responding to someone with an attack when they were crying about the issue. 

Was I cruel?  Yes.  I have never seen such an inhuman response to someone seeking comfort - especially on the depression board.  If amontro was in tears when she posted, imagine how she felt reading JB's response.  Did I say vile things - it was much worse before I edited things out. 

I rarely have such a strong reaction although I can be very opinionated - this one I just had enough of - a fairly new person to these boards, amontro got a pretty awful reception to what is normally a very comforting and welcoming place.  It was for her and the many others that have been subject to JB's ridicule that she needed a public smackdown - being on the receiving end of one very much like her when I first joined and scared out of my mind and crying all the time...someone stepped up for me...I returned the favor. 

And now, back to our regular scheduled topic...I hope.

Lowrider54

Mazy...great post!

lrr4993

Although I do not believe "pink october" or "save the tatas" or whatever else everyone is offended by is trivializing this disease, I think Low Rider's point a page or two ago is a good one.  Someone else made the same point about their son.  These catch phrases are marketing - they are designed to get the attention and involvement of a large group of people, most of whom have no real life experience with breast cancer.  You have to get them involved at a level that they can understand and comprehend.  It is exposure, which amounts to money, which amounts to research, which will hopefully one day result in a cure. 

I don't understand why anyone would complain about this.  You are certainly entitled to your opinions, but I cannot complain about things that are fully intended to serve the purpose of helping.  I think it is counterproductive and, honestly, I have much bigger things to worry about and cry over.

You may not like or relate to the means, but we we all stand to benefit from the end result.  Why upset yourself of this?

YramAL

Lowrider-I don't think you were out of line at all. 

Thank you for some very thoughtful posts.

Mary 

Lowrider54

Lisa

You have a great point...something about when you are in the very beginning of your journey with this disease, things become larger than life.  Trying to cope with what is happening to you, brand spanking new to the disease - everything is a muddle and the sensitivity is very high.  This is when any and all 'cute' phrases just don't register as being a source of funding but a very bittersweet reminder of what you just lost - one or both of the 'ta-ta's'. 

I have found that through research and education, a breast cancer patient finds that there is a reason - whether they support it or not - these things do raise money.  Some are more offensive than others - personally, the 'I Never Gave Up' campaign was very hurtful - it made many of us with the stage iv version feel as if we somehow 'gave up' and that is why it came back.  Thankfully, that one was pretty short-lived.

What is so sad in all the Pink marketing and such how so 'commercial' it has become and when you read the bottom line - how the amount of donations are 'capped', some are so misleading when they state the percentage that will actually end up at a research facility - after costs and many other things, that large companies have the ability to dictate when the funds go - it goes on. 

The very best way to see that any donation gets to where you want it to go is to send it directly there - 100% of the donation will end up going toward the breast cancer research that an indivdual wants to have it support. 

amontro - I so apologize for being a part of hijacking your thread - I do so hope all goes well for you and yes, I too find much of the marketing offensive and then, paradoxically, I also know it does raise funds that can possibly help us all. 

Many hugs to you...LowRider

Ang7

I agree with LowRider and Beesie~

If you have seen any of JB's posts you would know that some of them are very mean.

Mazy1959

Big hugs ladies. I also am sorry for posting on your thread Amontro. I'm human and let her remarks get to me. We have to stick together and encourage eachother as best we can. It upsets me when someone comes along and seems to just undermine the sisterhood here.

FYI..In october I get sick of the pink. I am really not bothered alot by it tho. The part that bothers me most is if the companies promoting the pink really are donating the money where its spose to go. HUgs, Mazy

Lynn18

amontro:  Like you, I feel sad when I see a bumper sticker like that.  I guess because it's too late for me to save mine . . .but I do like that our society is now so open about breast cancer.  I guess that wasn't always the case.  Like with women diagnosed in the 1950's, there was no pink stuff and women didn't get a lot of support back then.  I think it's important to look at the organization behind the slogan, to see where their funds are going.  I want to see money going directly to research for a cure for all of us.  It seems like a lot of organizations are now looking more into prevention, and whether a certain type of plastic causes breast cancer, but I want to see more research for a real treatment or cure which allow all of us to live.

duckyb1

mspadley........Thought the bracelets worn by your husband was "sweet" as well...........and shaving the head in support is taking a huge step for someone you love with cancer.....

Jbin was giving her opinion how this disease has been approached, and treated by her....do I agree with her, not necessarily, since some  healthy people can't do what she says she does even with cancer, but if that is what gets her through, fine.....should she impose her opinions that strongly on women farther along in this disease probably not........

The name calling, and vile words were totally out of line, not for this website, and certainly not those of a "lady".  I'm sure Stage 4 cancer is the reason, for the outburst, and the fighting so hard to feel well, and feel like your losing the battle.........But can't anyone of us end up there.....none of us will ever be cancer free..........My husband's doctor told me ";you never really get rid of cancer, it just remains in remission, and if your fortunate or unfortunate enough to die of something else...there are those who will say "she beat cancer"......no she just died sooner of soemthing else...........At my age 76, I'm sure something else will take me before cancer does, but will I ever say "I beat it", never

Something else too.............don't ever believe a PM on this website is truely a PM....it isn't.  I found that out......and my feeling is.......if you want the world to know your business, have the decency to just say it,,,,,,,and don't hind a PM, and then take claim to it later .

Have a great evening ladies, and honestly I loved this site, but I do believe I will stay away from Stage 4 posts............It seems you can't have an opinion here.........

duckyb1

So I make myself clear that typo 'was "don't hide behind a PM...............sorry

Lowrider54

So now I am not a lady and I hide?.  You really don't get it...and the PM - it would have remained private but you chose to make it public by totally taking it as insulting instead of the true intent - why don't you go back and take a look through JB's posts?  You are new here and have no idea of the history - research first then open mouth as you don't have any idea how degrading this person has been to just about everyone on here.  My words were mild compared to some that have come from her. 

I sent you a new PM in response to your threatening one - this one I won't post here, unless of course, you find that slamming back at me in the public forum is your style as it seems to be  becoming...while many are welcome on the stage IV issues - your comments are not comforting, supportive or helpful in any way...hopefully, you will continue to visit and learn and understanding what support and encouragement really are and you can settle into a groove where you words are more carefully thought out and know who you are responding to so your flip comments don't come off as hurtful.  You could be an asset to many a newbie - but first you need to learn how to be one. 

bluedahlia

I find it really interesting that JB makes her jabs then mindovermatter comes on over to "get her material".  Not too sure but looks like a concerted effort.  Could be wrong.

Anonymous

voraciousreader

The book is Pink Ribbon Blues... By Gail Sulik. It got a very good review. I read the book and I thought it was provocative and echoed my sentiments. I wonder though, do the folks that do all these charities and social work read these books?

lisa-e

Thanks for correcting my misposting. voraciousreader.  I'll go back and edit it.