My Fellow Deletees and The Cyberbullied Sisters

Enjoyful

Right.  I've been on political sites where the members were primarily men.  SOOOO much better. 

That was sarcasm, by the way.

Bren-2007

Sorry for my redundancy .. I'll be sure not to repeat the same story again.

Regardless, I don't agree with your appraisal of women getting together.

Bren

Enjoyful

I hadn't heard that story, Bren.  Thanks for posting it.

Esti

BinVa- It's the first time that I've heard the story and I think it bears repeating. The friendships that I've made with my chemo and rads sisters are invaluable.

Alpal

Bren, I'm sure you all had a wonderful time. Thanks for telling us about it.

Bren-2007

Here is a note from our Lioness:

Athena asks that the thread not be deleted. She thinks it is instructive and a reminder to all for the need for reform. Countries shouldn't tear up their war records, people shouldn't hide their histories and a large, well established board cannot hide its people's feelings. There is suffering and death on BCO, but love and laughter and beauty too. All phases of life are represented here. This is one, for better and for worse. It serves as a library, or encyclopaedia of our past. For positive, rah, rah rah support there are many threads to go to here, and those are every bit as valuable as this one. We have tried erasing threads in the past. That strategy has failed time and again. How about a different approach?

pickle

I posted this on the other thread in response to Melissa's request. Reposting it here...just my two cents worth.

I personally think it's a good idea to have a fresh start and in the meantime the mods/admin could continue working on the solution to the report button etc. I understand that you may not want some posts removed but would it be possible to copy and paste your posts to Otter on a new thread? recipes in a new thread? I know it may take a bit of work but sometimes it's best to take the olive branch and make decisions based on the good of the whole community.

Nothing wrong with the topics that get discussed but perhaps we could hold it to a standard like we would see if we were on a real debate team.

I think for this option to be successful, everyone would have to move forward and let bygones be bygones.

It's not easy to forgive and forget when you've been really hurt but IMHO it's doable and worthwhile.

Forgiveness is a funny thing; it warms your heart and cools the sting. 

Cheers

Beth 

imbell

A new start would be good.

Medigal

The Mod wanted our input and this is mine.  I think the problem is "not" with the group of regular women who belong just to this group.  The problem is when certain ones for one reason or another decide to also join the other thread.    For whatever reason, the ladies on that thread enjoy making us the brunt of their jokes as one can see very easily from their posting.   In time, it seems to me, that we became the "enemy" group to them and the fact that some of our own were mixed in there with them made the problem worse.  

Now one of their own and I think she was also one of our members today came on here wanting us to make peace with them and join them "against" some other unseen force which she won't or can't reveal.  My trust in that group is gone so personally I want no part of anything to do with them.  I think Melissa should make some rule (if she can) that we should stay seperate from them and not continue this action of being on this thread under one name and their thread under another.  We need to decide which forum we want to belong to and stick with that forum.  My place is "here" as long as I am allowed to be a member.  Frankly I think Blue's place should be with us because unless I have misjudged her, I don't think she is the type to be a part of that other forum. I don't think Althena was a part of their forum at any time that I know and I hope she will be back with us soon and decide to stay here.  We should all be equal but seperate from that other group, imo.  

They have a good forum with many threads for discussions that are not about bc.  They seem to know that these threads mean more than just discussing bc every day to us.  So if we can keep ourselves seperate from them, they can be free to do as they may, and so can we as long as we don't break our own rules for BCO.   When I post or reply to someone, I want to know it is one of our members and not a stranger "pretending to be a member" with a double ID.  Maybe Melissa can speak to their Moderator and ask her to put this suggestion to her own members (to stay in their own group).  If the Moderators are in agreement with what is best for the peace of both groups then all should hopefully go well.  Just my opinion of what I would like to see happen.

River_Rat

I just wanted to add my opinion here,as expressed in the other thread:

If I thought starting a new thread would magically make everything ok maybe I could support it.  But I don't.  That hasn't worked in the past.  There are many wonderful things in this thread and I would hate to lose them.

I like the idea of newbies not being able to delete.  Really if they can only post five times a day that seems more of a restriction than not being able to report posts.  

BarbaraA

I am at a loss. No suggestions. I hate to see yet another thread deleted.

BTW, Bren, I had not seen your post about the get together you had. How lovely. Please include me next time, if you want me to come.

newvickie

well...long time, no see. I decided to pop in and take a peek at how everyone was doing as I've been out of the loop for several months. 

I was never deleted but I was bullied.  No biggie. I have my big girl panties on.  I simply wanted to donate (not that I have much to donate LOL) until I started reading.  

I've missed so many of you.  More than you know or would understand.  

I'm sorry to see so much strife here.  

I want to wish you all well...

xxx

V

iodine

I'm with AnneW.  Put up or forget it.  If there is a, or a few, monsters out there who have nothing more to do than seek revenge for what ever reason,  tell is who you "think" it is and let's find out.  IP addresses are universal, so the tech staff can discover her many names on this site.  If they are stalking our posters, maybe the feds Should become involved. 

I don't believe any peace will be attained with either starting a new thread, or fencing in any groups.  This stuff is going to continue and loop holes will be discovered, as they always are.  Just like my kids ' he's looking at me" and "see, I'm not Touching him, Mom".  Cripes, Melissa has become the mom and that makes US --what---yep, the kids. 

Laying down more rules and having more and more conversations which are AGAIN attacked by others, I don't think that will work either.

Medigal

I agree with Althena.  Deleting this thread just means we won't do what it takes to learn from our mistakes.  I would like to see the Mod use this thread to come up with the actions that will keep things like this from happening again in the future.  We were doing fine and deleting our own posts when we realized they were off-topic to the main reason for this thread.  Then a stranger burst in last night and decided to make a type of internet "war" on one of our members.  It's supposed to be "Innocent until proven guilty" but somehow it wasn't that last night.  Doesn't Melissa have the right to face the Moderator of the other group about what one of her members did last night?  Are we just going to sweep it under the rug and pretend it didn't happen?  I think we need to keep a record of it to remind ourselves what can and cannot be allowed to happen in a forum.  I know Melissa cannot tell their members what to do but she certainly should have the right to take this up with their Moderator.  How can we be at peace about such terrible actions happening again if no one has to face a punishment for doing them?  Our Blue and Althena got punished (for unknown reasons) and yet the perpetrator does not even get reprimanded for what she did?

Shrek4

JBinOK,

Honestly, you could have refrained yourself to throw your little venom spits at least here. Isn't it enough going on? You post so many posts demeaning women that at this point I start doubting you are one. And if you dislike so much what women do, what are you doing here?

That being said, I think it's sad and pathetic that after going through what we are going, some people's only purpose in life is left to this.  Lindasa nailed it so well. What I am asking, is why do the others respond so well to thir buttons being pushed? Remember, things and people have the power over you that you give them.

And I agree with apple.

AnneW

I'm not in favor of sweeping this thread under the rug and starting fresh. Putting it on lock-down might be good, if that were possible. Meanness will just start somewhere else, as has been proven time and again.

Leave this thread up for everyone to see. Most of us have nothing to hide from it. We should all be embarrassed by how some grown women here treat each other (though we are by no means responsible for the actions of others.) Keep it, and let everyone learn from it...But learn what, exactly? That the bullies don't win!! Delete the thread and she/they WIN!!

What is there that we can all take positively from this exercise in freedom of cyber-speech? Can we learn that people with differing ideas can be friends and extend olive branches after hurt feelings? (shokk, I'm giving you benefit of the doubt here, but who am I really, to doubt your sincerity?) Can we learn how to avoid pushing one another's buttons in hopes of eliciting a knee-jerk, emotional response? Can we learn how to distance ourselves from a heated response for just a few moments before we actually post it?

Leave the thread up as is, please. Let's see if we can actually walk away from meanness and stick to why this topic was posted in the first place.

Anne, one of the generally "quiet" girls who knows exactly whose "side" she's on, and who realizes that sometimes BCO has to acknowledge that whomever really pooped in the bathtub needs to be banned. Even if it takes some DNA testing to figure it out.

ADK

First, I want to thank the mods for asking our opinion on this before acting on it. 

I think deleting another thread gives the trolls what they want.  I think it should stand, but maybe this thread just need to be moved to another forum.  Clearly, it has digressed from what it originally was.  That is only a thought from someone thinking out loud about all this trouble.   

Wabbit

What Anne said ... bravo!

Besides we have already had a 'fresh start' about 6 times already.  And guess what ... the disruptors always come right back.

All deleting the thread does is enable them to start over with all the evidence of their previous attacks removed. 

BarbaraA

Hear hear, Do not give them any power. BRUSSEL SPROUTS FOREVER!!!

fivepostsperd1ay

I have a question for whoever can answer. Melissa wrote the following: 

hours ago
Moderators wrote:
How about a new start?! A new thread, and new beginning. That way Newbies won't see the negative history, only the positive, supportive side to the discussion. I won't do anything till later tonight, but I'd like everyone's buy-in. By the way, Blue has been reinstated.

But going back in the thread, I saw two posts by lizardking reinstated, as well as two posts which are available for view on page 1 of this thread and reiterate potentially inflammatory accusations.  All were pretty hostile posts. That's fine - except for the following:

If Melissa is suggesting getting rid of the "negative history" and deleting the thread, why does she bring those posts back? 

chevy2levy

Day, here's the thing.  Blue was unjustly accused and although she could have ignored it, there were others that read those posts and even though some don't like to judge, it's only human nature to do so, whether it is a conscious decision or not.  Most are people one respects and some doubt comes into play regardless of the friendship and respect.  If she wanted to do what she was accused of, do you think she would go blabbing it anywhere.  She would just have done it.

I don't know why this element of "let's get her" exists, but there is only so much one can take when confronted with pure lies.  One reacts to clear her name.  Wouldn't you agree.  That was a blatant attack and I'm sure many would react to it.

They don't put food on your table but the childish games need to end.  We do not live on bread alone.  I can see how some gals leave and never come back.  Who needs these toxic elements. 

This crazy attitude and paranoia should end but has been inbred into some people and they can't see beyond their own noses when it comes to others.   They pretend to care but its all an act because if they can attack a person like Blue, only God knows what else they are capable of.

They took a few words out of context which were posted way back in January and made a Federal case out of them, trying to besmirch her reputation, hoping that some would believe the contortions and turn against her.  I don't know, maybe it has to do with her thread.  That's the only reason I can think of. Or they know she has them pegged.

fivepostsperd1ay

Ok, so here is another thing I don't understand. Blue published three posts with certain information. Those posts were removed by the community and, as of right now, have not been reinstated. Then, chevy2levy published the whole combination of posts. That post was not deleted - but it hasn't been removed by the moderator either. 

You would think that

EITHER

Blue's posts were so very "offensive" they the deserve to remain unreadable - and that, by logical inference, this must mean that Chevy's post combining the information from those posts should also be deleted, since it contained identical information.....

OR

If Chevy's information stayed and was therefore not considered worthy of removal by the mods, then why weren't Blue's "removed by the community" posts reinstated?

Is anyone following me on this?

Another point this leads us to:

Athena is no longer sure why she was initially banned. At first, she thought it was because there was a lag time between the time that some posts had been reported and between when the system had erased them. But something else happened: she reportedall of lizards posts and said so openly, citing the part of BCO rules under which she felt the action was justified. Some of the lizard posts were subsequently  reinstated. If you report posts that are later reinstated, you may get banned. Athena was subsequently unbanned, but the automated system banned her and would have clapped her behind irons for ten days.

And now for Blue: I wonder, technically, why she was banned. Was it because three of her posts were deleted or because she may have reported some of the lizard posts that were later reinstated (no knowledge of that one way or the other)?

The point is, Blue and Athena had two ways in which they could have been banned: by being deleted or because they reported. Athena may have been deleted for posts which, BTW, she believes no reasonable person would deem a breach of BCO rules. But she also reported two "Lizard...." posts that were un-removed. Did the mods think the Lizard posts were all right? She is curious as to this question.

This wouldn't be worthy of discussion if the Lizard posts had not been so extremely disturbing. And if it didn't raise some questions about the fairness of the reporting system here.

Killing this thread would impair efforts to answer those questions and address some apparent inconsistencies. 

This thread must remain open. These issues must be discussed. There is great disparity or not much sense in the decision making process of what bans a thread and what does not. 

Any input, opinion and discussion on this is welcome.  

chevy2levy

I think those 2 lizard posts were left in tact.  Were never deleted.  Also Blue is on restricted posting and can't post until later.  Was automatically deleted by the software.  I think the same thing happened to you.

fivepostsperd1ay

Athena received e-mails saying that she had erred in reporting two posts by lizard.... Maybe the mod singled out the reporting by herself, or the posts really did disappear. Athena doesn't remember. But receiving those e-mails was unsettling, to say the least. 

Medigal

Five:  Why would Athena be in trouble for reporting two posts from someone who was harassing one of our own members?  Lizard was the intruder here last night.  Athena was just trying to stop the problem by reporting her.  Since when does this cause the reporter to be deleted and/or restricted?  I am sure confused by the logic of the banning on this forum.  Makes no sense to me.

chevy2levy

You're right. She got the same emails. <confused>

apple

no offense to all you deleters, deletees and all you newbies, but BCO is not about you

Why don't you form your own forum?  there are plenty of freebies out there.,

Enjoyful

That we know, apple.  But form our own forum for what?  Brussels sprouts and cake?

Enjoyful

Perhaps the Moderators are testing new rules re: the Report button, and that's why some of the Reporters were banned?

Beesie

Anne, I agree. It's great that the Mods are asking our opinion before acting on this.  I posted this response in the other thread where the same suggestion has been made (about deleting the thread and starting over), and I'll repeat my comments here.

I don't agree with deleting this thread (or the other where this has been proposed) and starting a new one. This has been done many times before and the situation always evolves back to the same place.... and then the thread gets deleted and restarted and everything happens again.

As someone who has been stalked and who therefore has a personal stake in how all of this is resolved, I strongly believe that deleting the posts of those who instigate trouble and those who stalk and those who bully - and/or deleting the threads where this had been taking place - is simply a "get out of jail free" pass for those who misbehave. All the trouble they caused is erased and they are free to do it again. And they do. 

I appreciate that for BCO there is a problem having an active thread with so much negativity and so many arguments. But there's also is a good intent behind this thread - donating to BCO to help fund the solutions to these problems - why should that be deleted? Given the issues on all sides, I think that freezing this thread, if that can be done, might be the best solution. Then we can start up again, but without losing all that has taken place to-date.

Of course the best solution of all would be to stop the nonsense by posting the names of the deleters. Or, as I've suggested a few times, by not allowing the posts of legitimate members of the board (let's say someone with 50 posts or more) to be deleted. Not enabling the "Report this Post" button for newbies would be another fix. Solving the problem would be a whole lot better than erasing it and pretending it never happened.

Just my opinion.