I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

1Athena1

Love your post, wabbit. And I agree that some accusations against Hillary were preposterous (murder, etc...) - there was some real character assasination there - even though, IMO, her real character was already lacking.

I was never a republican, but I think Arlen Specter was one who represented what you described, and his species is quidckly and sadly dying off.

Obama is a moderate - absolutely - too conservative for me in many ways, so my support was largely based on what I saw --and see-- as his qualities as leader.

HL - I, too, fell briefly for Edwards (during the Kerry years). That cad fooled a lot of us!

As for Romney - the guy is a philosophical empty head who just wants the CEO position of the USA - period. Ryan is an empty shell and right wing hack, and the only reason why the MSM/pundits crown him as the right's policy guru is because there isn't anyone else.

gardengumby

HL - since we're baring our 2008 support - in the beginning I was torn between Hillary and John Edwards, finally deciding that Mr Edwards was my choice - in spite of the fact that I didn't like him as a person - I did like the policies he spoke.  I was incredibly angry at both him and his wife (may she rest in peace) for going ahead with the his candidacy knowing there was a gigantic elephant (no relationship to the gop) in the room, just waiting to drop.  Anyway, after Edwards was out of the running, then I supported Hillary.  I was afraid that Obama would not fully understand the machinations the Rethugs would bring to bear and I knew her history with them would ensure a fighter in the White House.  I was sad that Obama's first two years in office appeared to prove me right.  His third year he finally seemed to get the idea that he couldn't start out mediating from the middle - it would only drive any policies that could get through ever further right.  I was unutterably depressed that the guy from the first two years showed back up for the first debate.

Like you say, HL, the choice between Mr. Romney and Mr. Obama is stark.  Any former Hillary supporter who chooses to vote for Romney, or anyone who has claimed over the last few months to be "undecided" pays no attention to issues, and votes based on personality.  They are the true "low information voter".

riley702

I have been an Obama supporter from day 1, and still am. I wish he'd been able to do more, but with a Republican party willing to hold the country hostage and hurt its own people just to get rid of him, I think he's done more than many would have been able to do with the same obstacles.

I haven't been a Hillary supporter in the past, but agree she's been a very good Secretary of State. That said, if she runs for President in future (very likely), my support for her will depend on the opposition, both in the primary and general election. She's a little slick and calculating for my tastes, and I haven't forgotten some of the atrocious mud-slinging toward Obama her campaign engaged in during the '08 primary. 

 I'm not a Democrat. I was raised (old-style) Republican conservative, but as I've said before, the further right the GOP goes, the further they leave me behind. I just cannot embrace their ideology. I like the idea of a viable third party. We Independents should form our own party and moderate both the right and the left.

It's amazing to me how my support for Obama has painted me (among my still-conservative friends and family) as a flaming liberal. No such thing. I'll proudly wear the label Independent, Moderate and even consider the "epithet" recently uttered here: "you progressives", as a compliment. 

1Athena1

ETA - a propos of...nothing, I think I'd change "low information" and replace it with "low intelligence."

Oh, and anti-colonialism?

That's sort of, kind of, sort of, where....THE ENTIRE WORLD went after World War II. Even Queen Elizabeth cannot publicly support colonialism.

We really do have people here who haven't entered the Enlightenment Era. For clarification - that was the eighteenth century.

I guess if we still have fossils and caves, we've got to have colonialists (read -some Tea Partiers), right.

Some people have to re-take first grade - assuming they passed kindergarten.

Sigh.

River_Rat

I just ran across something that I felt others here would be interested in - maybe even those who only lurk here. It's a survey of 74 Beltway insiders - 37 Republicans, 37 Democrats. It's quite interesting:

New York Mag polled a bunch of Dems and Republicans  

Also something that Business Insider is describing as "The charts that should get Obama reelected". 

CherrylH

I, too, fell for John Edwards' speechs and charm, and he was from NC. After he dropped out, I supported Hillary, to the dismay of most of my friends who were Obama supporters. I didn't think khe had enough experience in government and that it would be  used against him, as it was and still is today. Being a genetic Democrat, I supported him once he won the nomination.

I have been disappointed in the way he has approached some things and am pissed he took so long to hit back at the Tealiban and Rethugs. I was under no illusion that everything he promised to do or change would happen in four years. Economically, it took us 20 years of de-regulations and little or no oversight to get us in the hole. No way that can be cleared up in four, or ever eight years.

I am doing everything I can to get people to vote and vote for Obama. I don't understand people not voting. Maybe it's because people died for me to have this opportunity that I care about it so much. I remember sitting in my grandparents' car as they walked in to vote for the first time. They had been property owners since they were 27 years old, and they voted for the first time when they were 64. Oh, and armed National Guard guarded the polling place.

Belinda44

You classy ladies are writing such calm, rational, spot-on posts, debunking the way the tea party people are trying to portray anyone who supports Obama. 

White Rabbit, your post above and Athena your post on anti-colonialism illustrate what soooo many of us are thinking. 

Thank you!

Anonymous

THis is an offering of a Bouquet of Fresh Carrots to my favorite wabbit - also a Big LIKE button pushed on your post...

rr - that's 2 amazing links....wow!

Anonymous

athena

if the "founding fathers & mothers" came back today, I don't think they'd recognize either party...tho I keep thinking of what wabbit said, and I DO SO MISS some of the Republican who have served us so wisely in my lifetime.  Sen Charles Percy comes to mind, many others, tragic what is using the same party label today...

1Athena1

I think the Founding Fathers would mistake the Tea Partiers for England! They would wonder where the revolution went.

QuinnCat

I think it was Ed Gillespie on CNN this weekend who said "This country is Center Right."

Isn't this an oxymoron?

Wabbit

Athena ... I just recently realized that Obama is being criticized for being anti-colonialism.  This country is the poster child for anti-colonialism!  You know ... we were a colony ... we thought we were being exploited/didn't need the British anymore ... we fought for independence.  Talk about a WTF moment to see it portrayed as a bad thing to be against. 

  

1Athena1

WR: I am scratching my whiskers with my four paws over that. It's a weird sight, for sure. But not nearly as disturbing as watching George Washington roll over in his grave because of what is being said.

BTW, those are the folks who also frequently rail against "multiculturalism." It is worth noting, for the record, that Washington, Jefferson et. al. fought for a multicultural society - Americans of English, French, Dutch, German, descent, etc.... The fact that they held slaves spoke to hypocrisy - but they always valued diversity at least in principle.

The people who truly hated "multiculturalism" were the Nazis.

RetiredLibby

Kam, the Republicans think that if they say the country is center right often enough and loudly enough then it will be true. In reality, the rightwing has fallen so far of the edge of the flat earth that they have moved what used to be the center pretty far right. As it stands now, in comparison with the far right of the Republican party, the country is actually center left, IMO.



L

Belinda44

Belinda44

lewing

OK, you guys have emboldened me to admit that I also gave a small amount of money to John Edwards very, very early in his 2008 campaign (which for him basically started in November 2004).  Blechhh!  We all make mistakes.

Linda

Belinda44

River_Rat

Wow, the Philly Inquirer's endorsement pulls no punches:

"Like a carnival barker cajoling a mark into spending the last bills in his wallet, the Republican Party is counting on Americans' not remembering that they've seen this trick before.

GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney wants voters to forget their familiarity with the prize he's dangling before their eyes - a return to the disastrous economic policies that preceded the recession. Given that context, Romney's prize is no better than a fake pearl."

And it just gets better:

http://articles.philly.com/2012-10-14/news/34449767_1_job-creators-economic-policies-president-obama 

QuinnCat

HL - I agree, I believe if you plotted the curve of political beliefs in this country from fascist (extreme right) to socialist (extreme left) versus population on the continuum, it would be a bimodal curve, not a bell curve skewed right....the righties would create their own little bell curve on the fascist side, emphasis on "little."  The rest of us would look like the normal bell curve of the 50's, 60's and 70's.  The person falling on the antimode (the point between the two curves) would be the break point between those believing in Social Security and Medicare and the person(s) not believing in these "socialist" programs.  By their defintion, we would be a majority leftist population with about 25% extremists on the right.   

QuinnCat

I went to see both Kerry and Edwards speak in 2004.  Oregon was a swing state back then...no more!  I was surprised, Kerry was a very dynamic speaker, in person, while Edwards, not so much.  I was originally a Biden supporter early on in the 2008 election.  I knew the country was focused on Hillary and Obama, and eventually I chose to go with Obama - I guess I won!   A twofer.  I couldn't stomach Hillary's vote on the Iraq war (yes, Biden voted the same way, but Obama was not on my radar at the time).  I've said this before, her comments about coming under fire in Bosnia were a bit too much for me.  I've admired her very much as Secretary of State.  Believe me, I could have thrown a shoe or two at Obama for him thinking he could work with these Republicans and giving in and giving in to their tactics.  When he finally figured out that compromise was impossible with these Tealibaners, I refound my affection.  Despite what he's been up against, I am amazed at all of the wonderful legislation he has accomplished, and despite wanting Single Payer (one huge disappointment I had with many Democrats was their compromise to this Republican ACA plan), he got us one step closer and people I know, in the middle class even, will no longer wonder how they will get or keep their health insurance.

lewing

Amen, Kam.  I have great health insurance, and it gives me peace of mind to know I can keep my daughter on it until she's 26 (unless Romney is elected).  Thanks to Obamacare, my in-laws who have young children no longer have to pay out of pocket for their vaccinations (unless Romney is elected).  And stage IV sisters no longer have to worry about blowing through the lifetime limits on their insurance (unless Romney is elected).

There's a lot at stake in this election, that's for sure. 

riley702

And my 19 yr-old niece with diabetes won't have to worry for the rest of her life about how she'll find and afford healthcare (unless Romney is elected).

1Athena1

....simply put, I don't understand how anyone with a history of cancer can oppose a law that eliminates the pre-existing condition exclusion....unless they believe in fairy tales.

Loving your posts today, Kam and Lewing.

QuinnCat

Thanks Athena - that means a lot coming from you.  The women on this thread constantly impress me with the caliber of their writing skills and incredible knowledge base.....it's intimidating at times!  Last year, I experienced the perfect storm of losing my favorite (political) radio station, a web forum I participated in that was shut down one day by the owners and breast cancer!!!  The house went dark for awhile..until I was directed here.  Thank you guys so much!

1Athena1

Wow - we are at page 999 and still in business....time for our bartender to plan a good drinks menu tonight and hoping our thread leader Blue can stand to sit and type for a while -can't have a 1,000 page celebration without her!

lewing

Go, page 1000!  I'm putting in for a vodka gimlet.

You guys will appreciate this: I was just texting my sweetie about dinner plans, and included the word "leftovers" . . . but I typed it clumsily and so autocorrect changed it to "leftist era."

My phone really knows me!

Linda

riley702

LOL, lewing! I vote for vodka gimlets, too! Yummy. Although, regular gimlets with gin are fine, too.

Wabbit

Ummm ... 'leftovers' ... that's the word I use when I want to go out to eat

lewing

Ah, I *am* going out to eat (with my BFF and her daughter, who's my own daughter's BFF).  The leftovers are for my sweetie.

Linda