I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

1Athena1

(((((Otter)))))

(((((Mary)))))

bluedahlia

Otter what a nightmare!  As if dealing with a sudden loss wasn't enough.

I already divided things for my kids and they know exactly where everything is.  The only question will be my jewelery. Maybe I'll take it with me.

BarbaraA

((OTTER))  ((MARY))

Linda, as an ex-smoker who could easily become one again, I find what NH did appalling. Just sayin'.

Anonymous

It is not the job of state governments to keep people safe from themselves.  New Hampshire's state motto is "Live Free or Die".  It is on their license plates.  They have no helmet law for motorcyclists, and they have liquor stores in their highway rest stops. 

Many residents moved there from Boston because they didn't like the high taxes and government intrusion into their lives in Massachusetts.

If your don't like the way they do things there, you don't need to live there.  Why do people feel the need to impose their values and sensibilities on people who live in other states and other countries?

bluedahlia

Pat, you mean like the pro-life people do?  Even though I'm pro-life I would never treat pro-choice the way they have been treated by the pro-lifers.  We mustn't be selective.

apple

(((otter)))

rosemary-b

Remove compulsory school attendance for children? Bypass a Supreme Court decision ordering the state to pay for the cost of an adequate education for every public schoolchild?

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?

Alpal

Rosemary - are you yelling? Hehehe!

leggo

PatMom, you made me chuckle. I couldn't help but think that sometimes people are just that stupid that they need governement intervention.....Like who really needs to have the warning on plastic bags not to put it on your head? Or a warning label telling you not to dive into a baby wading pool? etc., etc. Obviously some people need protection from themselves.

Medigal

Otter:  All those courses you referred to, been there, none that. Exhausting time of my life!  However, "some" children do NOT want to even consider the fact that their parents could actually die so won't even look at all the manuals of info I have personally typed up giving any and all needed info they will need when the time comes.  "If  I am no longer here" is how they start off.  For DP and DD because neither one of them will even know how to order their own medical supplies if I pop off first!

DP knows where all the manuals of info are kept so hopefully "he" will be here to show it to DD "before" he pops off.  I tried recently to bring up the subject with DD but she absolutely is in "la la" land with the thought of my not living forever!  It frightens me a great deal so we are hoping to find a friend of hers who we can discuss this with so at least "someone" will know details and where to find things.  

If you think typing up all the "if I am no longer here" stuff was hard, it was a breeze compared to researching funeral homes, and purchasing all our coffins and plots!  I just was NOT going to have these two go bonkers if I go first and they have no idea who to call or where to place me.  SO....now I made it so easy for them yet they still won't read the manuals I typed!  "You can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink!" is a great saying.  

Sorry to be discussing such a depressing (for some) subject but blame Otter.  "She" brought it up!  Thank you Otter!

rosemary-b

Yelling was not my intention, but...

When I copied and pasted it came out in bold.

I believe that an education is a right but even for those who don't(and I can't believe that this country has sunk to a point where people don't believe in universal education but apparently we have) this makes no sense.

We have a truancy center in the town where I work. Truancy laws are strictly enforced and truants are brought to this center,Petty crime by teens who should have been in schoool is way down. Teenagers who are not in school drink and drive and shoplift and do other things that bored teenagers do.

Edited for clarity

IronJawedBCAngel

I am so impressed with the way the GOP House members have their fingers on the pulse of what Americans want! Let's kill NPR and Big Bird!

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/03/anthony-weiner-sarcastically-mocks-gop-npr-defunding-bill-video.php

Anthony at his sarcastic best!

1Athena1

When some people get tax breaks and that affects government revenue, someone else always has to pay. So if tobacco makers get tak breaks, others will have to pay more. This isn't about shrinking government; it is about shifting the burden around.

I stopped smoking in early 2009, but even before then I would have found the New Hampshire proposal outrageous. 

crazy4carrots

 Just trying to figure out some things in a previous post.....

PatMom wrote:  It is not the job of state governments to keep people safe from themselves.

Just checked New Hampshire's laws regarding marijuana:  Yes it does have a law on the books -- possession is a misdemeanour, while sale or cultivation is a felony.  Unfortunately, New Hampshire has not legalized the sale of medical marijuana.  Could it be that the state is trying to keep people safe from themselves?

Okay, that might have been tinged with sarcasm.  But, while New Hampshire may be a bit more reluctant to legislate personal safety laws, I guarantee that if a certain behaviour of its citizens resulted in more tax dollars being expended, the state would step right in and legislate against that behaviour.  What other body would do it?  The feds?

PatMom:  You also wrote:   Why do people feel the need to impose their values and sensibilities on people who live in other states and other countries?

The United States has been doing that very thing since the whole concept of "exceptionalism" took root.  On a slightly smaller scale, religious and political folk do it too.  It's called "human nature", or "I'd feel a lot more comfortable being around you if you thought/practiced/did the same things as I".  

1Athena1

And, in fact, it IS the job of state governments to keep people safe from themselves - state governments themselves actually resent federal interference, in some cases, on those very grounds; they believe they should have discretion on those matters.That's why police forces and fire departments exist, as do state commitment laws, state pollution laws, state national guards and state standards on construction - as well as state education and state bar exams and state medical licensing boards and state driver's licenses, speeding rules and traffic violations standards. New Hampshire has all of the above. Must we go on? 

As to the question of the US imposing its values: any non American reading an American bemoaning the imposition of values on others must be dying of laughter. I'd list the countries in which we have done or tried to do this, but I don't have that much time.  

Anonymous

This is a thread in the Moving Beyond Cancer thread

Here's the link:   http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marisa-weiss-md/breast-cancer-prevention-_b_837311.html

 Just in case you haven't started eating your "Stoneyfield Yogurt" yet!  Amazed BC.org would stoop this low - "prevention = cure" -UGH!     Pink Profits anyone?

konakat

The people I know who moved to NH from MA did so because of less expensive housing and less taxes. I never heard about anyone complaining about MA gov't intrusion though. Those that moved to NH had the delightful 1.5-2 hr commute each way to get into Boston.  I had to do that when I first moved to MA and was put up in a border area hotel until I found an apt.  It was awful!! Some moved back to Boston or the suburbs because it wasn't worth it to live in NH. 

Having travelled a lot through NH, the only liquor store I found off the highway was right before the MA border at a huge rest stop where people could pick up cheap booze (the wine selection was crappy btw). It's not like you can booze up at every rest stop! Some people would travel across the border to get a carton of cigarettes for $50 instead of $80 in MA.  You can save money in NH but the social benefits are abysmal if you live there (so I'm told).  You get what you pay for, which isn't much.  The only people who reap the benefits were from MA and lived close enough to make a "border run" for the cheaper items.

I'm all for what we call "sin taxes" in Canada.  Tax booze, cigarettes and gas at a high rate. To cut any of these taxes and cut education funding is so stupid.  So, my point is that lower taxes are wonderful until you actually need to use state-funded/under-funded services.

AnnNYC

PatMom, my understanding (as a relapsed smoker ) is that "sin" taxes on cigarettes and alcohol are not only intended to reduce consumption, but to help (re)cover the social costs incurred by smoking and drinking -- higher health care costs, loss of work productivity costs, car accidents attributable to drinking, etc.

AnnNYC

((((((((Otter))))))))) and ((((((((((Covertanjou))))))))))

Anonymous

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covertanjou

Thank you for all the hugs.  I am feeling much better.  The antibiotics have finally kicked in, and I am able to breathe (almost) normally again.  So on Monday I should be able to be fine to teach.  

Caerus, most of the "videos" they have released are doctored.  I am glad Big Bird is fighting back! I love NPR.  

I agree with KK and Anne about taxing cigarettes & alcohol.  As Anne so eloquently wrote, the extra taxes are to "help (re)cover the social costs of smoking and drinking-- higher health costs."

So the US, Canada, Britain, Italy and France are involved in enforcing Libya's no-fly zone.  More countries will also be joining the coalition to help the Libyan people.  I hope there are as few casualties as possible for all our troops and the Libyan people.  

Also, I usually get an email notification when there is a new post on this thread, but I am not getting a notification any more.  Is anyone else having this problem. 

1Athena1

Mary, I think other people mentioned problems like that. Glad you are feeling better.

AnnNYC

Mary, so glad to hear you are feeling better!

otter

covertanjou/Mary, I'm happy to hear you're doing better.  A sinus infection (with bronchitis, too!) can make a person feel really awful.  I have to say that I'm glad I don't have to grade papers or give lectures anymore, especially on those "off" days.

I do appreciate the hugs.  I would offer a comment on whatever we're talking about now, but my thoughts are lagging a few pages back, on the topic of recycling.  Hubs and I have been going 'round and 'round about whether to put the newspapers and empty cans in paper sacks in the closet, like my mom was doing, or just toss 'em in the regular trash.  (We are still at the family house.)  There is no monetary penalty here for not recycling something that could be recycled.  In fact, this community has such a complicated recycling scheme that sometimes even I get ticked off and toss stuff in the regular trash.  Plus, this community charges a "recycling fee" in addition to the regular garbage fee on each month's utility bill.  So, here, people are required to pay for the privilege of sorting their trash into 4 or 5 different paper sacks...  I guess you just have to be motivated.

otter

lassie11

Otter - you don't have regular recycling pick up?!! here in small town Ontario, we have pick up for both garbage and recycling on the same day.  Each bag of garbage needs a $2 bag tag. The recycling is free. I guess that in itself is motivation. The city made back yard compost barrels free some years ago.  It's only once every three weeks or so that I put out a bag of garbage.

And what is this with the BCO leader essentially saying that it's our own fault we got breast cancer?! Really, if it could be prevented as she suggests, the only logical conclusion is that I failed to prevent it and therefore am responsible for getting it (twice).  Hmmmmmmm

otter

"Hmmmm...." is right.  I think I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt about risk factors.  Of course there are some variables that have a strong impact on our risk, like whether we have children and the age at which we have them.  But, if anyone says those are "modifiable" risk factors, I'll be first in line to smack 'em. 

OTOH, there does seem to be pretty good evidence that alcohol (generally > 1 drink per day) and being overweight, especially gaining weight after menopause, will also have a strong effect on our risk.  That's based on statistical calculations; and there are lots of us who don't fit the profile.  And, I hate it when someone hints that I might have been able to prevent my BC by staying thin instead of gaining those ~15 pounds (or having that small glass of table wine with dinner).

But, really, it's not surprising (IMHO) to hear that there might be some "environmental" (including lifestyle) factors that could affect our risk.  Heck, we've been hearing for decades that our risk of developing other diseases can be increased or decreased by some of those same factors.  Think about all the health problems that are associated with being overweight, and the (general) decrease in risk of those problems if someone is able to return to, and maintain, a healthy weight.

As for all the other stuff (cow's milk, tapwater, plastic bottles, pesticides on apples, etc.)... I think the mathematical influence they have is just too small to think we can alter our risk of BC by avoiding them.

lassie, there is regular recycling pickup in many cities in the U.S., but not in other cities and often not in rural areas.  Economic factors often drive the extent of recycling policies.  Llots of communities that initially offered "free" recycling started charging for it when the markets for the recycled stuff crashed.  One town near here started out recycling everything, and everybody really got into it.... but then the market for plastics bottomed out and they stopped taking it; and next the market for colored glass bottles didn't cover the cost of pickup, so they stopped taking them; and finally they were accepting only aluminum cans and cardboard.  The policy changed so often that some people gave up because they never knew what they could put in the recycling bins and what needed to go in regular trash.

Also, some communities require consumers to sort everything into separate containers (different types of plastic, different shapes of plastic containers, different colors of glass, cardboard versus newsprint versus office paper, aluminum versus "tin" cans, etc.); while others allow many of those things to be grouped together.  I know someone whose town has the residents put all recycleable stuff together into a single blue bin, because they learned it's cheaper to sort it at the collection center than to have the residents mix things up.  There is just so much variability...

Oops. Gotta go.  Y'all have a good night, okay?

otter

208sandy

Lassie:

Yup, Dr. Weiss has written a book (or booklet) or two sponsored I gather by Stoneyfield Farm Yogurt Co. wherein she tells us what to do about lowering our risks for bc - they include things like having our children when we're very young, breast feeding, eating organic, etc. somehow or other though it comes off as quite insulting and "blaming the victims" - the problem I have with the whole thing is that someone is getting money, I don't know what's happening with the money, Stoneyfield Farms is obviously going after the "pink profits" - wouldn't it be nice if just once we weren't the target audience for this nonsense.

lassie11

oh dear - do all these "risks" mean that I am likely to get breast cancer again?! I'm still overweight, can't undo the fact that I had my children late and really -- I don't like yogurt. Don't eat it. Ever.

On the issue of removing the requirement to send children to school. Is that the slippery slope argument wherein if you don't need universal health care, you also don't need universal education? What's next? the firefighters? the water treatment plants?

bluedahlia

Lassie, we can dig our own wells for crying out loud!  and put out our own fires.  You want government getting involved with everything?

IronJawedBCAngel

Firefighters, police officers, and teachers are already under attack and losing their jobs in this country because of the likes of Scott Walker, Rick Snyder, and many others.  If we have an uneducated population, it brings us one step closer to a nation of serfs to serve the wealthy.  The unhealthy just need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and heal themselves. After all, something they did must have caused their illness, so they don't deserve any insurance or health care because they are equivalent to burning houses, according to some.

For myself, I led a very healthy lifestyle, had my first child at the age of 20, breastfed all three, drank green tea, never used birth control pills, weighed 127 lbs on a 5'7" frame, and still got breast cancer.  There are unavoidable environmental factors that are probably huge contributors to our cancers, which I think is why we have so many very young women being diagnosed.  Dr. Love has indicated that she suspects the trigger for our breast cancers may be activated in our pre-adolescent/adolescent years.  In that period of time in my life, growth hormones were being used in food at one of the highest levels ever, and I was also surrounded by second hand smoke. Growth hormones are still being used in this country at a high level, and with all the pollution in our air, water, and soil, it is not surprising that cancers of all kinds are increasing. I believe it takes a "perfect storm" for a cancer to develop, and there probably is no single source I can point to as a cause for my cancer, but I like to blame it on the stress of living with my ex-husband for far too many years.  Toxic people and stress kills!

I will say to anyone that wants to play the blame game, and point fingers that any one of us "caused" our cancers,  "Bite my ever widening arse!"