I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange
Comments
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notself -- I owe you an apology. I did not mean ( the reason I copied your smiley ) the graphic to be personal to you, but only that it is expected so much for females in general not to state their 'real' feelings since we are not smart enough or so it is thought to have any that are palatable or decent. But, we have come a long, long way, and in that sense I do feel that we can look at something and say what we are actually feeling. Often by the next day we might be feeling something else, who knows.
Again, I am sorry and I hope you won't go anywhere.
Jackie
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Thank you, Jackie.
I am seeing all the progress women have made in this country in the past fifty years being slowly eroded. Women often buy into the very language that contributes to this erosion. My own niece said that she objected to rape jokes but didn't object to other sexist jokes because she didn't want to be considered "difficult". A woman objecting to sexist jokes is the one who's being difficult. Really??? We have been brow beaten into believing that any objection to sexist, racist or anti gay talk is being too politically correct. So, rather than being classified as "difficult" we retreat. We buy into sexism.
Unconscious bias is a big contributor to our sexist culture. This article explains why sexism is so hard to overcome. http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/01/opinion/urry-women-science/
"I also struggled to understand why I didn't seem to belong in my field -- why I was overlooked for leadership roles, why I was underpaid, why my suggestions were ignored until a male colleague proposed the same idea and why female scientists in general garnered a disproportionately small share of honors and awards.
Then I stumbled on a description about bias in Virginia Valian's eye-opening book, "Why So Slow? The Advancement of Women."
It was a classic Eureka moment. My observations of the underappreciation of women in science were suddenly explained by a simple idea: that each of us, having grown up in a society where men and women are not equal and do not populate the peaks of accomplishment equally, has an unconscious expectation that men are leaders.
Consider this riddle I heard as a kid: A man and his son are in a serious car accident. The man dies on the spot, and the son is rushed to the hospital. Upon entering the operating room, the surgeon says, "I can't operate on this boy; he's my son."
I was utterly unable to figure out how the boy's father could both be dead and about to perform surgery. Of course, the answer is that the boy's mother was the surgeon. That possibility never crossed my young mind because, until I was in my 20s, I had never had a female doctor. So it's not surprising that I developed an unconscious expectation that doctors would be men."
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Agree completely with bren, NO COMPARISON. Palin has USED what she thinks is her "sexuality" in her clothing, and especially in her manner. During the VP debate with Biden, she actually WINKED at the camera - I thought all the women in the room who were watching with me would throw up! She uses herself as a symbol, as stated, that's ALL she had/has is her "charismatic" ( to be kind) demeanor - Mrs. Obama has NEVER behaved that way, she is a serious, and also sometimes delightfully funny, especially allowing the sick children she recently visited to put stickers on her forehead, her nose, and smiled.
NO COMPARISON.
John McCain will always be labeled as the person who brought public attention to Palin, and the reason he sis, was DESPERATION. His advisors have stated that, and have APOLOGIZED for it.
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Agree, notself, and I am grateful to Michelle Obama for doing so much to ELEVATE the status of women, and to the President, his first signature went on the "Lily Ledbetter" law.
Palin demeans women, and if she were not an "attractive" ( charismatic in media terms WOMAN) she never would have been selected by McCain.
I often have to remind myself, Indira Ghandi was a woman, so was Margaret Thatcher.
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From the top of this page on down....wonderfully succinct opinions and feelings very well expressed.
. Could not agree more.Jackie
Though I do not agree with everything President Obama has done or likely will do before this, is last term, is up, he has not only been an extremely good President under many times extraordinary pressures. His wife, our very fantastic FIRST LADY has such grace, style and benevolence and does exemplify all that we can be and hopefully are. Easily able to compliment her husband as our President, but having her own stand-alone uniqueness and abilities.
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I like SNOOZFUL.
Everything that can be said about Palin has been said, and very eloquently said by you ladies. As usual, I have nothing to add.
E
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Yeah, Snoozful has gotten the most important vote of approval
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My real problem with Palin and her ilk is that they are allowing themselves to be put out there as examples to reinforce the negative stereotypes of women. Not expected to be capable of being thoughtful, or informed, or rational ... just always cute and feisty, bless her hormonal, unpredictable, mama bear heart. Ann Coulter is the 'women are too catty, bitchy, and impulsive to be leaders' example.
Like you notself, I grew up bombarded with that crap. The really smart girls when I went to school were expected to be nurses or teachers. Never doctors or lawyers. It was so ingrained it wasn't even considered. Luckily my small town was behind the times and other women, in more enlightened places, were forging ahead.
Women of previous generations worked hard to overcome that kind of thinking. These women benefited from that, but are now willing to throw other women under the bus to make a buck playing to it. Or they really are it ... which is worse. Either way, I have no problem criticizing the particulars of the role they are choosing to play either.
I think it's sexist to not call them out on it. All of it ... any chance we get. I expect better of women than the way these idiots behave. I'm not willing to watch them help destroy the gains that have been made. Our daughters and granddaughters should not have to fight these same battles again.
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LOL ... I always have something to add. Whether I should or not
I like Snoozful too!
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Terms used in the general culture contribute to limitations on girls and how they think about things. How about the inherent falsehood of the term mankind? Women tended to be gatherers of plants while men tended to be hunters. Yet, all the books I read and many that are still being printed date civilization based on when "man" invented agriculture. Now really, would it be the hunters or the gatherers who invented agriculture? It all relates to the use of the words mankind and men when the words humankind and humans should be used.
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People often underestimate the power of words.
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Notself and Enjoyful ... looking for the LIKE button.
What I don't like is MOWING. I've just been to fill up the gas cans (I think Mr. Tim forgot that was his job) and then spent 45 minutes with the pushmower getting the hard to reach places. It sucks. Now comes the part where the allergies really kick in ... the yard and back field with the riding mower!!
I can't believe it's only May 2nd and I'm already bitching about mowing. Wabbit, I know you know what I'm talking about!
Enjoyful ... You have a lot to mow as well. Is anybody helping you with that?
hugs,
Bren
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Bren ... actually I'm bitching without much cause. I only mow the small fenced in part. Takes less than a half hour. YOU mow for real. Wish I could send you my guys who do the big yard part.
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I do the riding mower part, Bren, and sis comes behind with the push mower. I don't have allergies so it's easier and more comfortable for me to do most of it. Sis has terrible allergies..
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First of all......a big SHOUT OUT to Enjoyful. Such good news.
Not self...I have to agree with you about going after the way women look and dress. It always amazes me that when Hillary Clinton speaks, the print news pundits want us to know what she was wearing. Who cares.
There are so many political, moral and intellectual issues that are pertinent when discussing Palin.
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I forgot to add that our family in Quapaw is fine. My niece logged on to FB to tell the world about her fav chocolate bar...so I assume they survived.
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Good to hear that pip!
I'm killing time here. Daisy does not know it but she will be going to the vet shortly. Always makes me feel bad that she gets so excited about the ride ... and then I get 'the look' when she figures out the destination. Although last time the vet fed her peanut butter off a stick, so maybe she will remember that.
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Bren did you say you were bitching and mowing? moaning? Sorry.
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Rosemary ... too funny ... I'd have to say I'm bitching, moaning and groaning about it! Done with that project for the day!
Wabbit ... I feel for Daisy. Is she okay? Hope she remembers the peanut butter and that the vet has some more today. Oh .. and please send me your guys! That's exactly what I need ... some guys. Hell .. Enjoyful could use some too.
hugs,
Bren
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Bren, watch out for the TICKS!!
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Ugh! Mowing is such a chore but the results are so lovely...for almost a week and then back at it. It takes my DH almost 4 hours to mow our 2.5 acres. Thank goodness it's relatively flat although the trees slow him down.
Tina Brown thinks that Hilary Clinton shouldn't run for President because running for President is too hard. I'd love everyone's comments on the article. It's a short one. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/02/don-t-run-for-president-hillary-become-a-post-president-instead.html
The postedcomments on the article are very strange. Evidently there is a deal of upset that she didn't divorce Bill. This failure of hers, according to the comments, disqualifies her to be President. And, of course there is Benghazi!!!
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I too was FASCINATED by the tina brown article. The part I think she missed, is the DESIRE FOR POWER. Something so often not acknowledged in women. TB assumes that HRC is already "post presidential" and has all the fame, respect she "needs" and would be happy with a grandma, homey pleasant life. HA. Obviously she's never worked with her. POWER. Not to mention Air Force One is much nicer, bigger, than the Sec of State plane ;-)
But seriously, I think she WILL run, and I also predict she will be H RODHAM C very soon after being elected.
Interesting scuttlebutt re: Jeb taking money raisers out of Thug Christie's "camp" - they were Bushies first, and always, if ( and I think her will) runs.
If it is Jeb & HRC, nicely takes all the air out of the "dynasty" attacks ;-)
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I for one, would love to see Hillary as president. Yet I can hear the haters mock her hair, her hips (notself, you're so right about the sexism issue these days!) They'll be more concerned about Bill than about her own abilities. But, I do think she could be more effective with an obstructionist congress than Obama, mainly because I think she is far more comfortable in her "skin" so to speak and is less of a people-pleaser. I think we NEED her, though I would totally respect if she did decide to just go be a grandma at this stage of her life. Who needs the hassle that has become the presidency?
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I read the TB article and kept wondering when it would come up, that since Hillary has been so aware for the longest time of so many, many of the negatives, when would I hear that for some.....it is love of country and for TRYING to influence the positive for today and hopefully for future generations. Also, there is the fact that there SHOULD be a female President as females are just as able as any one and if you are talking about the Bush years, much more able by far. That should not be the deepest reason, the others are far better.
Of course Presidents get raked across the coals, but I really can't see Hillary being interested for what you get when you are out of the Oval Office. Seems shallow to me and I sure don't think of her that way.
Jackie
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Had just read this interesting article before I got on to read and had intended to share. Just what we were discussing earlier.
As if women didn’t need more reasons to flock to the voting booth in November to reject Republicans, yet another conservative Christian is calling for repealing the 19th Amendment.
Conservative Christian leader David Barton wants to ban women from voting.
For nearly 100 years, women have enjoyed the right to vote in this country. Ratified in 1920, the 19th Amendment of the Constitution says:
,w=this.contentWindow,d;try{d=w.document}catch(e){}if(h&&d&&(!d.body||!d.body.firstChild)){if(h.call){setTimeout(h,0)}else if(h.match){try{h=s.upd(h,i)}catch(e){}w.location.replace(h)}}" iframe="" ]<="">&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;“The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.”&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;But in the present day, there are still people who want to repeal it and once again ban women from exercising voting rights in America. One such individual is David Barton. Barton is the founder of Wallbuilders, an organization that seeks to destroy the separation of church of state. He also pretends to be a historian and hangs out with Glenn Beck. On Thursday, the conservative “Christian”&lt;a href="http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/05/01/christian-historian-allowing-women-to-vote-hurts-the-entire-culture-and-society/"&gt;openly called&lt;/a&gt;for taking voting rights away from women because women voting supposedly damages society and culture.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;“So family government precedes civil government and you watch that as colonists came to America, they voted by families. And you have to remember back then, husband and wife, I mean the two were considered one. That is the biblical precept… That is a family, that is voting. And so the head of the family is traditionally considered to be the husband and even biblically still continues to be so.”&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;See what he did there? Barton claims that families voted as a unit during the colonial era and then goes on to say that men are biblically mandated to be the head of the household. In short, he’s saying that women should get married and trust their husbands to vote on their behalf. Here’s where that logic completely falls apart.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;h2&gt;Conservatives want to stop women from voting because they vote for Democrats.&lt;/h2&gt;&lt;p&gt;In the 2012 Election, Republican presidential wannabe Mitt Romney&lt;a href="http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/07/married-voters-favored-romney-by-14-percentage-points/"&gt;won the married men vote by 22 percentage points&lt;/a&gt;. On the other hand, he only won the married women vote by a mere 7 points. Clearly, their were many wives who chose to vote for President Obama against the wishes of their husbands on that Election Day. The biggest rejection of the GOP that year came from single women with 67 percent voting for Obama and only 31 percent for Mitt Romney.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;It’s obvious that conservatives like Barton don’t want women to vote because they vote for Democrats. Overwhelmingly. According to Barton and most conservative Christians, this “hurts the entire culture and society.” And by that, he means a culture and society dominated entirely by men. Barton claims that women were denied voting rights to create “a strong culture, a strong society, and it was based on a strong family that preceded government. And they crafted their policies to protect a strong family.”&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Here’s the audio via&lt;a href="http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/05/01/christian-historian-allowing-women-to-vote-hurts-the-entire-culture-and-society/"&gt;Raw Story&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;iframe width="100%" height="166" src="https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?url=https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/147421570&amp;amp;amp;color=ff0000" frameborder="no" scrolling="no" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"&gt;
Women vote for Democrats because their policies are pro-family.
But Barton, like conservative Christian ideology, is wrong. Women vote for Democrats because they like policies that prevent their children and themselves from starving or becoming homeless. Unlike the GOP, Democrats support education, food assistance programs, public housing, domestic violence laws, healthcare, equal pay, and family planning. All of these policies directly benefit families. Meanwhile, conservatives oppose all of these policies and have actively sought to weaken or destroy each and every one of them. How can conservatives claim that women voting harms families when they are the ones trying to make families suffer? How can families survive in a society where children can’t get an education or put food in their bellies or have decent homes? How can families survive without proper health care or a fair income? How can families be stronger by allowing men to beat the hell out of their wives and children? The answer is that they can’t. Not having access to these policies puts tremendous pressures on families, especially women and children. This is why women have the right to vote. Because it is clear that most married men are incapable of voting for their family’s best interest. They’d apparently rather kill many of the policies and programs that have helped families stay out of poverty for decades. If men were the only ones allowed to vote, Republicans would have had complete control of the government. And that is precisely why conservatives want to ban women from voting.
Women need to exercise their right to vote to prevent Republicans from destroying it.
Once again, conservatives have shown what they really think. They don’t want women to have the right to vote. This is the neaxt big battle they plan to wage. They already oppose choice, equal pay and women being in the workforce. Now they want to kill the 19th Amendment as well. If conservatives have their way, women will be forced to submit to the will of men and will be restricted to the home as full-time cooks and baby machines. And the only way women can prevent this harsh sexist reality is for them to exercise their right to vote while they still can.
I don't know any woman who would even come close to standing still for something like this. Can't conceive of this guy even coming close to believing this sort of thing would stand a chance. He doesn't seem to realize snowballs have never turned up in hell and they are not going to.
Jackie
the link: http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/05/02/barton-hates-women/
I no longer seem able to copy and paste w/o the weirdness though it worked before just fine. So sorry, so I went back and got the link.
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Jackie
I know it's rude to laugh directly AT someone, but your wonderful article is to blame for my POOR manners, cuz I've been chucklin' away wondering what that man would suggest when two WOMEN are married to each other? Flip a coin to see who gets to voite?
And by implication, single women wouldn't get a vote?
I just love it when someone "proof texts" the bible, taking one wee line, and using it as "proof" of something. There are so many, many wonderful myths that really are educational and don't have the contradictions present in the bible
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Hello!!---May I just throw in here my Beautiful,Intelligent,Athletic Granddaughter graduated from UtahValleyUniversity today!!!! So very PROUD of her. She also this year broke the softball homerun record. She now has a BA in History.
AND she takes no Crap from ANYone. -------------------kad2kar
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Barton being 'friends' with Glen beck sort of gave a big tip off as to how bad this was likely to be though I pretty much had that figured already.
Don't look now Barton but me-thinks you waited a tad long to spring this one on the American public at large......trust me....it's a dud !!!!!!!!!
Jackie
eta: and there is that Church and State little thingy to consider as well.
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kad2kar....nor should she as she does not have too. Yay for another one destroying the long ago stereotype that didn't come close to fitting......even then.
Jackie
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Regressives who can't feel good about themselves (or win a level competition) unless they have their boots on the necks of women and minorities. They are no different than the Mid East tribal Taliban types ... they might call their Sharia law something different, but that's what it would be. I detest those people.
Daisy is fine. Just her annual shots and check-up. According to the vet she is perfect and a good doggie. And that man gave her enough treats to totally take the place of her dinner. He is such a pushover for a soulful doggie look So she enjoyed her ride and trip after all.
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