I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

1151715181520152215231828

Comments

  • IllinoisLady
    IllinoisLady Member Posts: 29,082
    edited August 2013
  • IllinoisLady
    IllinoisLady Member Posts: 29,082
    edited August 2013
  • bluedahlia
    bluedahlia Member Posts: 6,944
    edited August 2013
  • gardengumby
    gardengumby Member Posts: 7,305
    edited August 2013

    Sunny - bbq salmon at 6pm Saturday.  You are all invited!!  :)

    Jackie - I sincerely love your GOP translator.  Everyone should have one posted right next to their television set (especially if the ever turn on FAUX news).

    You can also add to your post regading Republican ideology - if Republican ideology is so great - why is it that Republicans are the very first to get in line for any government "handout" while they are screaming about too many government "handouts"?

  • bluedahlia
    bluedahlia Member Posts: 6,944
    edited August 2013

    Because they are a bunch of uneducated hillbillies!

  • RetiredLibby
    RetiredLibby Member Posts: 1,992
    edited August 2013

    Priceless, Blue! Spot on!



    Exactly, GG. The Arizona Republican Congressional delegation voted no for Hurricane Sandy relief but are screaming and crying for aid for wildfires. Part of the requirement of being a Republican seems to be a minimum level of hypocrisy. What kind of people ar they?



    Oh, yeah, and the Republicans who vote against food aid but take farm subsidies. The worst kind of hypocrites, as well as the people who vote for them.



  • gardengumby
    gardengumby Member Posts: 7,305
    edited August 2013

    Another thing is, how can they simultaneously claim the government isn't any good at anything and can't do anything properly, and at the same claim these hugical conspiracies that the gubmint somehow manages to keep completely clandestine? 

  • RetiredLibby
    RetiredLibby Member Posts: 1,992
    edited August 2013

    Deficits don't matter ... Until a Democratic president has to fix the Republican mess, then they are the END OF THE WORLD!!!! Until they want some gub'mint money and then they don't matter again. What kind of people ARE they?



  • crazy4carrots
    crazy4carrots Member Posts: 5,324
    edited August 2013

    From a poignant -- and scary -- essay on PoliticusUSA (and a good summing-up of what I've been thinking, but too reluctant to admit):

    All the Tea Party represents is repackaged fascism. The message is the same: real Americans instead of real Germans and familiar enemies, like Muslims instead of Jews (they share a hatred of gays); out-of-control paranoia and conspiracy theories like stabs in the back and betrayal; the view of women (real American – aka white women) as breeders of a master race; and a mission from God to restore the nation’s greatness.

    America for Americans is no different than Hitler’s Germany for Germans. They even have the same overblown sense of nationalism: Deutschland über alles and American exceptionalism share a low-brow wavelength.

    Nor is it a coincidence that both National Socialists and Tea Partiers happen to be white and predominantly male.

    I really thought I would get through my life time without seeing it for myself. I wish I had, because though it helps me understand how it could happen, it does not bode well for the world my children will inherit.

    You have only to peruse sites like Right Wing Watch to see how bad things are. The idiocy of their claims come right out of the same adherence to 19th century pseudoscientific principles sprinkled with nods to the actual Bronze Age of 3500 years ago, give or take.

    It is not so long ago that people assumed superstition would not make a comeback. But it has. Every time I hear some Republican pooh-pooh global warming – like Rep. Dana Rohrbacher (R-CA) a few days ago saying that global warming is a fraud and a plot to institute global government (remember what I said about paranoid conspiracy theories?), or Rush Limbaugh saying if you believe in God you can’t believe in global warming – I wait expectantly for the germ theory of medicine to get thrown under the bus.

  • ananda8
    ananda8 Member Posts: 2,755
    edited August 2013

    Since I used to raise rescued baby possums, I thought I would stick up for the dear things.

  • Alyson
    Alyson Member Posts: 4,308
    edited August 2013

    Yours are much cuter than ours and unfortunately they have become a pest here destroying the bush and spreading TB into our dairy herds.

    Wow that was a lot to read this morning. That was a great piece about Athena

    Just waiting, not sure what to do even though she taught us well.

    Have some politicians that need their heads read here and it is not even election year.

    Big hugs to all.

  • RetiredLibby
    RetiredLibby Member Posts: 1,992
    edited August 2013

    Notself, I am quite sure that your hand-raised rescued baby possums were the nicest possums in their neighborhood!



  • RetiredLibby
    RetiredLibby Member Posts: 1,992
    edited August 2013

    C4C, that pretty much answers my question about what kind of people they are. One never wants to invoke that particular f-word, but when all the evidence points to it, I'm afraid we can't escape it. It fits together far too well. I hope the pendulum swings back toward civilization soon.

  • IllinoisLady
    IllinoisLady Member Posts: 29,082
    edited August 2013
  • CherrylH
    CherrylH Member Posts: 1,077
    edited August 2013
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited August 2013
  • RetiredLibby
    RetiredLibby Member Posts: 1,992
    edited August 2013

    The Washington Post

    The Plum Line:  The profound cynicism of Obamacare opponents

    By Greg Sargent, Published: August 15 at 3:14 pm

    Here’s a little tale that neatly reveals the real game plan of Obamacare opponents: Spread as much confusion and dishonesty about the law as possible, with the explicit goal of preventing Americans from realizing what benefits it carries for them.

    The conservative group Americans for Prosperity is up with a new radio ad (embedded below) that decries the law as an impending disaster. Yet when you unpack the ad it’s actually more revealing about the strategic game plan behind this sort of political attack than it is about the law itself.

     The ad features a worried mother who says the following: “Two years ago, my son Caleb began having seizures…if we can’t pick our own doctor, how do I know my family is going to get the care they need?”

     FactCheck.org took a look at a previous version of this ad, and pronounced the claim that “we can’t pick our own doctor” under Obamacare to be false. What’s more, the invocation of a preexisting condition is a particularly audacious move in an ad that attacks a law that bans discrimination against people with preexisting conditions.

     But perhaps the most revealing thing of all is the ad’s warning of public confusion about the law. To buttress the impression that the ad is a catastrophe, the ad claims: “ABC News says confusion and doubt are prognosis for Obamcare.”

     And it’s true: The ABC News article in question does bear that headline. But the article actually presents this not as a sign that the law itself is flawed, but as a sign that the public remains ignorant about what’s actually in it. The article is about how many Americans, even those who stand to gain from the law, are not yet aware of its benefits.

    This neatly underscores the game plan behind ads like these: spread confusion about the law — in a deliberate effort to prevent folks from learning what’s actually in it — while simultaneously citing confusion about the law as evidence that it’s a disaster in hopes that folks will give up on it.

    This is not hyperbole. Remember, groups opposed to Obamacare are explicitly working to get young people not to sign up for the exchanges, in order to make the law fail.

     All of which gets to a crucial point about the battle over the law: Opponents need to bet heavily on the hope that political messaging will overwhelm and drown out the emergence of facts about what the law will actually do for people. The law’s exchanges are set to kick in this fall, and the Wall Street Journal reports that insurers are set to spend as much as $1 billion in new ads wooing new customers to shop for insurance on those exchanges, a huge marketing push that can only help get out more information about the law’s benefits.

    We shouldn’t underestimate the possibility of serious implementation problems, and ultimately, people’s experience of the law will probably do the most to determine the public’s ultimate verdict on it. That said, it looks very possible that the calculus may now shift rather dramatically on the pro-Obamacare side of the equation. This, even as opponents will have to keep resorting to the sort of political attacks on the law that people have already been hearing for literally years now.

     ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------End article.

    They are evil people - that's what kind of people they are.  Discouraging people from signing up for health insurance will mean that some people die without medical care.  And if they think that is OK, they are evil people. 


  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited August 2013
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited August 2013
  • CherrylH
    CherrylH Member Posts: 1,077
    edited August 2013

    RL, great article. I notice there are lots of blue lines. I hope all of you will follow Sun and I and block these folks. Do not let them upset your wellbeing. Blue can be comforting, especially when one doesn't have to read the crap they spew.

    Have a good evening.

  • ananda8
    ananda8 Member Posts: 2,755
    edited August 2013

    SeaglassShanaGirl was presenting us with a Logical Fallicy called a Red Herring. It goes like this.

    • Topic A is under discussion.
    • Topic B is introduced under the guise of being relevant to topic A (when topic B is actually not relevant to topic A).
    • Topic A is abandoned.

    We have been posting about national issues that are or should be part of a national discussion.  We have been posting information about current and past members of the national Republican Party.  SeaglassShanaGirl posted about Detroit under the guise of being relevant to the topic and in an effort to switch the subject. 

    Here is a list of many of the Logical Fallacies and how they are used.  Although almost everyone uses LF, Republicans and ultra-conservative seem to be especially skilled at their use.  Here is a link to the list.  Let's see how many we can match up to Republican statements.

    http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

  • RetiredLibby
    RetiredLibby Member Posts: 1,992
    edited August 2013

    Hah, Notself - all of them!  Laughing

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited August 2013

    notself - that's the cutest possum I've ever seen.  I miss the hedgehog who lived in my London garden - used to put out a little bowl of milk for her ( she was so cute, had to be a her) was warned not to touch her cuz she had fleas. 

    Do red herrings have fleas?  well, I still don't wanna get near them. Prefer my herring with onions & picklesLaughing

    RL - thanks for reminding me about gub'mint.  Love it....

  • RetiredLibby
    RetiredLibby Member Posts: 1,992
    edited August 2013

    Oh, here is another fun, "I hate gub'mint spending except when it applies to me" story!

    PoliticsUSA

    Congressman who Attacked ‘Fit’ Couple on Food Stamps Took $370,000 In Stimulus

    by: Keith BrekhusAug. 14th, 2013


    Congressman Markwayne Mullin (R-OK) who blasted a “physically fit” couple for using food stamps at a suburban Virginia grocery store, collected 370,000 dollars in federal stimulus money for his Oklahoma plumbing company. Mullin who brags about turning the plumbing company into a successful business never mentions the government help he received to make it thrive. Or if he did not need the money to prop up his plumbing firm, he never mentions that his business was “physically fit” and that he did not actually need stimulus money to keep it afloat.

    Mullin has become a text book case in Republican hypocrisy. He attacks food stamp recipients for collecting a couple hundred dollars a month in assistance needed to eat, but says no word about collecting 370,000 dollars in federal assistance to install toilets and lay pipes. To be fair, the projects that the stimulus money funded, which included building affordable housing in Northeast Oklahoma, are probably worthy projects. The problem is that Mullin is so quick to judge others for using federal money and that he espouses vehement anti-government rhetoric while he pockets federal money.

    After winning his GOP House primary in 2012, Mullin remarked “government needs to have a limited role in our lives. We can take care of ourselves.”  Of course, it is easier to take care of yourself after the federal government cuts you a few checks totaling 370 grand. No wonder Mr. Mullin looks so physically fit. Like Michelle Bachmann who enriched herself as a tax attorney for the IRS, Markwayne Mullin has gotten wealthy with the help of the federal government. Like Bachmann, Congressman Mullin then turns around and attacks federal spending in order to curry favor with the Tea Party base that feeds off of his rabid anti-government rhetoric.  Mullin seems to think feeding people or providing relief for hurricane victims is wasteful government spending, but when there are hundreds of thousands of dollars available to subsidize his business he is at the front of the line with his hand out.  Like so many of the Tea Party firebrands, Congressman Markwayne Mullin is a hypocrite of the first magnitude.

    ---------------------------------end first article.

    The REALLY FUN part is that the money he received was part of stimulus money given to the Cherokee and Muskogee Creek nations for low-income housing construction and rehabilitation.  Mullin is a citizen of the Cherokee Nation and his plumbing business is a Native American-owned company, making it eligible for Indian preference in contract awards.

    Here is the article from last year on that lucrative bit of government business:

     Cherokee Phoenix

    Okla. GOP candidate Mullin got $370K in stimulus

    9/13/2012 8:25:30 AM

    OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) – A Republican congressional candidate who argues the federal government should rein in spending was awarded around $370,000 in federal stimulus money distributed through a pair of Oklahoma Indian tribes, records show.

    Companies owned by Markwayne Mullin, the GOP nominee for a U.S. House seat in eastern Oklahoma, received the money under contracts with the Cherokee and Muscogee (Creek) nations, according to documents posted on a government website created to track recovery funds.

    Records show some of the awards were made after Mullin, a Cherokee Nation citizen, entered the race to replace Democratic Rep. Dan Boren, who announced his retirement in 2011.

    Mullin declined to answer questions about the contracts. His campaign released a statement in which Mullin criticized the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 as a “horrible waste of tax dollars” but defended his company’s acceptance of federal dollars.

    “Mullin Plumbing is a plumbing business. When someone hires us to do a job, we don’t ask them where the money comes from,” the statement reads. “Plumbing is plumbing. These projects were Cherokee Nation projects, and our contract was with the Cherokee Nation. We just performed the services we were hired to do and moved on to the next job, like always.”

    But Mullin’s opponent in November’s election, Democrat Rob Wallace, said Mullin was trying to have it both ways.

    “To take as strong a stand against what he calls wasteful government spending as he has taken, and then to be taking stimulus funds for his business doesn’t actually seem to be consistent with one another,” Wallace said. “It does seem to be hypocritical.”

    Mullin, 35, owns a number of Tulsa-area businesses, including Mullin Plumbing, whose red service trucks are a staple on city streets and whose local television commercials give the firm a high profile. His website highlights how he turned the firm around after taking it over from his ailing father more than 15 years ago.

    Since he hit the campaign trail in 2011, Mullin has been a fierce and unyielding critic of federal spending and what he describes as an increasing role of the federal government in the lives of everyday citizens.

    “Government needs to have a limited role in our lives. We can take care of ourselves,” Mullin told the AP after winning the GOP primary in the race to replace Boren in eastern Oklahoma’s 2nd Congressional District.

    Records show Mullin Plumbing of Broken Arrow had five separate contracts totaling $335,000 for plumbing work awarded by the CN on two separate projects to construct affordable housing in eastern Oklahoma.

    According to data posted at www.recovery.gov, Mullin Plumbing was awarded $83,000 as part of a $5 million project to construct energy efficient, affordable homes in Sequoyah and Adair counties in northeast Oklahoma. The company also was awarded four separate contracts totaling about $251,000 as part of a separate, $12 million CN project to modernize low-income rental apartments and privately owned homes for CN citizens.

    A Mullin Plumbing subsidiary, Mullin Pumping, also was awarded a $34,700 contract on a separate $5.6 million housing project by the MCN.

    All of the projects were funded by federal stimulus money administered by the Department of Housing and Urban Development. The projects are all completed, and all of the vendors have been paid, said Edward Pound, a spokesman for the Recovery Accountability and Transparency Board.

    Although the federal agency provided some accounting on the projects, the individual tribes were responsible for soliciting and awarding vendors, Pound said.

    “The money would have gone through (HUD) directly to the tribe,” he said. “The tribe would pick the vendor, (but) a particular agency might do some oversight.”

    The CN solicits bids through its website and applies tribal law, policy and federal funding requirements when awarding bids, CN Secretary of State Charles Head said. The tribe generally uses a formal sealed bid process for major purchases and then evaluates bids with the specific criteria needed to fulfill the project.

    Head said the tribe also follows internal policies that allow Indian-owned businesses to receive preferential treatment in the bid process.

    The CN has contributed $2,500 to Wallace, according to Federal Election Commission records.

    Mullin, of Westville, captured 57 percent of the vote in the Aug. 28 GOP primary runoff over three-term state Rep. George Faught of Muskogee.

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    Isn't this just too, too delicious?  He rails against government spending yet benefits handsomely from stimulus money to construct and rehabilitate housing that he doesn't think people of his nation should have while he benefits from money that he thinks the government shouldn't spend.  And people actually voted for this.

    L


  • lewing
    lewing Member Posts: 1,288
    edited August 2013

    Alyson, I think it's funny that you think our possums are cuter than yours.  When I was in Australia, I remember thinking their possums were way, way cuter than our ugly, scraggly ones (Notself, cover your ears!).  They were definitely pests, though. 

    (I'm assuming NZ possums are similar to the ones in Australia, but maybe they're not.)

    L

  • alexandria58
    alexandria58 Member Posts: 1,588
    edited August 2013

    Hi all.  Been off-line since the argy-bargy yesterday morning.  I'm running around, trying to get things done that need to be done before we head up for Vermont for my DD's wedding on September 3.  I do want to thank everyone who supported me yesterday.

    Notself -adorable baby possum. My only personal experience with baby possums was when my late and lamented German Shepherd killed one and injured another.  We took the injured one to the Wildlife Center, where he recuperated and went on to be released back into the wild.

    RL - right on about the health care and the people who are spreading lies to prevent its implementation.  I find it so amusing that the people who mandate useless vaginal ultrasounds for women who neither want nor need them are the ones spreading lies about lack of choice on health care.  I'm sorry, but I think there's something evil about people deliberately trying to stop a program that is saving lives.  I'm not satisfied with the current system - I'm hoping to move towards a Canadian system eventually - but I'm with the President on the question: why is it the central and unifying tenet of the Republican party to deny health insurance for 31 million people.

    Lewing - appreciate words on how society treats women who are prostitutes.  One of the missed points of my story about my client - that is the saddest part of the whole thing - is that she was a prostitute for financial reasons because in these times - when the minimum wage has not kept up with the cost of living and we've destroyed the unions - even working two full time jobs, 80 hours a week, doesn't make enough money to support a family.

    And the hypocrocy of the Republicans who accept money from the feds and then blast people who have lost jobs or are struggling on low wages to pay rent and utilities. let alone buy food.  The farm bill was the worst of it - with whatshisname - the Republican Congressman who took more than a million dollars in farm subsidies.  Makes me crazy.  And what the fuck does being able bodied have to do with not getting enough money to pay for housing, utilities, and food?   There is such a meanness to denying people help, not merely the hypocrocy.  To think that the food stamp program began with cooperation between Republicans and Dems, because Bob Dole, bless his heart, wanted to eliminate hunger in the United States.  And it worked.  So, now that times are so hard for so many, they want to destroy it.

    I don't recall who said it, but the rhetoric from the right has become frightening - with it becoming acceptable to repeat neo-Nazi sentiments about the derogation of the white race.

    Forgive my raves.  Early in the morning.  Not enough coffee - or maybe too much. 

  • Alyson
    Alyson Member Posts: 4,308
    edited August 2013

    Lewing they are they same- came from Australia. We have so many pests that have arrived here from there. NZ has no native mammals - well other than a tiny bat. Possums are a real pest here eating the native trees,they liked our climate as did gorse and rabbits, ferrets etc. but of course they came from Europe. I couldn't tell Notself how we treat possums here.

  • lassie11
    lassie11 Member Posts: 1,500
    edited August 2013

    The possum discussion reminds me of the different attitudes towards squirrels here. My relatives from England were enchanted with them calling them cute.  I see them as the critters who eat the cherries on my cherry trees, the grapes on my vines and throw shells from black walnuts on the sidewalk to trip me up. Early in the spring they behead the tulips just at they bloom - except this year for some reason. Lately one of my neighbours has been trapping them and setting them free across the bay. Too bad (for many reasons) he started chemo this week as what he calls the "family reunification" program for squirrels might be slowed.

  • RetiredLibby
    RetiredLibby Member Posts: 1,992
    edited August 2013

    Lassie, YOUR squirrels behead your tulips, too??? I thought mine did because they hated me for using cayenne pepper when I planted the bulbs so they wouldn't dig ghem up! My mom did the same thing and the squirrels always beheaded her tulips, too. They were quite tidy about it, cutting the heads off and laying them next to the tulip plants in neat rows!



  • Marple
    Marple Member Posts: 19,143
    edited August 2013

    Deer will also eat tulips.  Daffodils on the other hand are toxic.

Categories