I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

RetiredLibby · May 2013

You know, there will always be trolls in search of bridges. None here. Maybe they will move on. Guess it takes a long time for some to grasp that they lost.

Congrats on the Relay for Life, ItchE - and the change in relationship status!

L

Anonymous · May 2013

Self proclaimed hater still posting, I see, can't read it, thanks for giving us that option. Wonder why the Moderators haven't reminded posters of the "don't like, don't read" option too, well, I still prefer the BLOCK Thread, just wonderful, even tho ya still have to block individual users...can't imagine why someone would deliberately try to stir up trouble, why not just ignore? Ah, well....here's something much more entertaining...

:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6W2ZMpsxhg&feature=player_embedded

What The Rijksmuseum in Holland did to attract people.
Let's bring the art to the people and then, hopefully, they will come to see more - at the museum.

They took a painting, Rembrandt from 1642, Night Watch, and brought to life the characters in it, placed them in a busy mall and the rest you can see for yourself!

alexandria58 · May 2013

E - congrats on a maybe relationship. We want details!!!!

Actually, on the whole umbrella scandal: I have the truth of the matter. Obama is actually an advanced automaton from another planet, sent to conquer and rule our planet, with only two weaknesses. First, his hands are unable to grasp anything with the diameter of an umbrella, second, if he gets wets, it will trigger a chain reaction that will lead to the destruction of not only this planet but all reality as we known it. Don't believe me? It'll be on Fox news tomorrow. They found the space ship.

Sun - love the idea of posing actors as a famous painting. I'd go to see that!!

So the sun has risen over the mountain. There's a flowering and shockingly pink crab apple tree at the edge of my yard. We managed to get food before the car died, so even if we can't drive anywhere, we can eat. I have my novel to work on and my camera to take pictures of the spring. If I have to have my car break down and be stranded, this ain't a bad place to be.

lewing · May 2013

Bren, so glad the group of you were able to get together for Brenda's birthday. What a beautiful picture -- you can see the warmth and love.

E, congrats on the relay and on your new non-relationship; bummer on the itching and, er, other stuff.

I ran a half marathon yesterday . . . first 6-7 miles were great, last 2 were a show of grit and determination, but the three in the middle . . . well, I think that "The Little Engine That Said 'F**k It'" meme must have left a lasting impression on me, because it became my motto. I didn't bring my best mental game to the race, that's for sure.

So now I have to do ANOTHER half if I'm to make my goal of qualifying for the NYC marathon in 2014 and Boston in 2015. In the meantime, I'm icing my left foot and eating like a horse.

Speaking of eating . . . had a wonderful dinner with a friend last night (no brussel sprouts, but she made candied bacon - CANDIED BACON!! - and just about the most delicious lamb ever) and I got to meet (and heartily approve of) the guy she's dating. It was loads of fun.

HL, I really appreciate your thoughts on the IRS non-scandal. It's always interesting to get your insights into the operation of federal agencies.

Linda

(Edited to wave at Alexandria - we cross-posted - and thank you all for bringing umbrellagate to my attention. Somehow, in my lazy, head-in-the-sand, NYT-reading ways, I'd missed this shocking development.)

Anonymous · May 2013

candied bacon? did I read that correctly?

E - I have a lifetime's supply of Immodium. Costco, natch. Lifetime supply. "Don't leave home without it." So happy you have a non-relationship, the best kind

lewing · May 2013

Yes, sunflowers, you read that right. It was coated with sugar and chili. We started out putting it on bread with some goat cheese, then we decided that the bread was an unnecessary distraction and just spread the goat cheese directly on the bacon.

More moderate souls might have crumbled it into a salad or something, but moderation is not our thing.

Linda

Enjoyful · May 2013

I wanted to share my thoughts on TIGTA's IRS report. Since I am an auditor with over 25 years of experience, I feel qualified, in this ONE case, to provide my professional opinion on a current political circus act. I'll apologize in advance for any typographical errors or inconsistencies and will be happy to edit for clarification.

I found it a well-written report on the results of their well-structured audit. The overall objective was:

To determine whether allegations were founded that the IRS:

1) targeted specific groups applying for tax-exempt status, 2) delayed processing targeted
groups’ applications for tax-exempt status, and 3) requested unnecessary information from
targeted groups.

The results were:

1) The IRS did target specific groups applying for tax-exempt status, namely those with "Tea Party," "9/12," or "Patriots" in the organization's title.

Auditors found that the IRS had specific procedures directed toward organizations with Tea Party, 9/12, or Patriots in the organization's title. [For the sake of brevity, I'll call these "Tea Party groups."]

The IRS reviewed 296 applications that the IRS identified as potential political cases. Ninety-six of these, or 32% of these applicant organizations were Tea Party groups. Although it's clear that the IRS selected 200 organizations that were NOT Tea Party groups, TIGTA determined that the IRS selected ALL of these targeted groups for further investigation.

TIGTA agreed with the IRS classification in most of these 296 applications, but could not find evidence of significant potential campaign intervention for 91, or 31%, of these applications. TIGTA did NOT identify which of these 91 were Tea Party groups.

2) The IRS delayed processing targeted groups’ applications for tax-exempt status.

TIGTA found that potential political cases experienced long processing delays. For the 296 potential political cases they reviewed, as of December 17, 2012, 108 applications had been approved, 28 were withdrawn by the applicant, none had been denied, and 160 cases were open from 206 to 1,138 calendar days (some crossing two election cycles).

TIGTA did not identify which of these organizations were Tea Party groups.

3) The IRS requested unnecessary information from targeted groups.

TIGTA also found that 98% of the 170 requests for additional information were unnecessary.

TIGTA did not identify which of these 170 requests were for organizations were Tea Party groups.

Edited to add:

My takeaways from this report:

The IRS had policies to target Tea Party groups and did, in fact, target them for further investigation.

It's not clear whether delays and requests for unnecessary information were directed at Tea Party groups OR just an example of IRS inefficiency.

Enjoyful · May 2013

Alexandria -

Almost-boyfriend is a lawyer and my boss, so I'll call him "lawyerboss." He's a lawyer, CPA, and a life-long, card-carrying Republican. We have discussions about current events but they're more along the lines of coherent public policy rather than politics. We have similar views on gun safety and he's nearly convinced me of the benefits of free market economics with his rational arguments. I know, right?

He appreciates MY appreciation of the whimsical even though he's not whimsical himself. Our senses of humor are compatible and we spend most of our time together laughing (when he's not telling me how awesome I am). Oh, he also thinks I'm sharp, talented, and awesome. I do question his judgment sometimes, but I have to make allowances for his Republican status. ;-)

He's not a horse person but he's offered to shovel manure with me. I've offered to train him to be our team groom, and I think he's seriously considering it. He really did well holding an excited Sampson for me when I needed him to. He remained calm with Sampson and didn't resort to the typical Man Strategy of yelling and running AT the horse to calm it down. (Why do men do that??)

To summarize, he's nearly perfect. Why is he interested in ME? Goofy man.

Belinda44 · May 2013

Good morning all! Been away on business travel and catching up with this thread. Lots going on with everyone! Athena, that was an incredible ordeal you endured. I hope the tamoxifen is treating you kindly this time around. Glenna, hope you're feeling ok after your latest chemo treatment. Chickadee--that' great that you're getting a chemo break before your cruise and Enjoyful, fingers and toes crossed that this trial you're on is a success with minimal side effects! And congrats on your kinda, sorta relationship ; ). He sounds amazing!!! Enjoy, enjoy : )--you deserve it!!

To all going through treatment, hugs and healing vibes to you!

Sunflowers, I think it was you who mentioned Dorothy Parker several pages back. I always loved her acerbic wit! Some of my favorite quotes by her are:

“I like to have a martini,
Two at the very most.
After three I'm under the table,
after four I'm under my host.”

“If you want to know what God thinks of money, just look at the people he gave it to.”

“You can lead a horticulture, but you can't make her think.”

“A hangover is the wrath of grapes.”

Bren, great photo!

Lewing, congrats on the half marathon! Very, very cool!

Hope everyone enjoys their Sunday!

Belinda44 · May 2013

cartoonistgroup.com

Belinda44 · May 2013

Belinda44 · May 2013

Btw, you all probably saw that Dove beauty commercial/campaign a few weeks back (illustrating how women view themselves as being less attactive than they really are). It's touching.

Here it is in case you didn't see it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpaOjMXyJGk

Anyway, for a chuckle for today, check out the male version spoof. It's hysterical!!!!:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8Jiwo3u6Vo

alexandria58 · May 2013

E - not a horse person is a drawback, but the rest sounds great. Horses aside, he is clearly a man of intelligence and taste - which is why, of course, he's with you.

208sandy · May 2013

E - of course he loves you because we all do! He's got very good taste even though he's not really in a relationship with you (yeah - right!). Glad the se's are gentle so far and hope that continues.

RetiredLibby · May 2013

Very good article in the NYT today about the IRS office in Cincinnati. It is long, so I don't want to copy it all here. Here is a good pull quote:

Begin quote

“I think that what happened here was that foolish mistakes were made by people trying to be more efficient in their workload selection,” Mr. Miller testified before a House committee Friday. While “intolerable,” he said, it “was not an act of partisanship.”

As a storm of criticism washes over what is — even in the best of times — the federal government’s most reviled agency, some of those in Cincinnati agreed.

“I don’t believe there’s any such thing as rogue agents — there are some that aren’t as competent as others, just like in any workplace,” said Bonnie Esrig, 60, a senior manager in the I.R.S. office who retired in January, in part over disagreements with other officials there.

“I was not a happy camper leaving that organization,” she added, “and I can still say that I don’t think there was malice behind it at all.”

Administering the nearly four-million-word federal tax code involves so many arcane legalities, and is so fraught with potential to ignite Washington’s partisan skirmishes or infuriate taxpayers, that much of the I.R.S. is run by lawyers.

End quote.

Here is the URL: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/19/us/politics/at-irs-unprepared-office-seemed-unclear-about-the-rules.html?smid=fb-nytimes&WT.z_sma=PO_CAS_20130519&_r=0

I feel for them.

L

Anonymous · May 2013

Hi, again, Belinda - I LOVE your Dorothy Parker poem...what a Spirit she was...

Libby - reading the NYTimes in hard copy now....

The rest of the kerfluffle, is best explained by that fabulous Elephant cartoon - HRC is laughing all the way to Iowa, New Hampshire, and North Carolina

YEAH, E - sounds so good. Neigh, neigh, neigh...more sugar cubes on the way.

bluedahlia · May 2013

Enjoyful · May 2013

Libby -

Of course, an audit report would not go into the whys of what occurred. I can see that when faced with limited resources and limited training, people would attempt to be more efficient by targeting higher-risk groups. And by higher risk, I mean political groups that are vehemently opposed to taxes. It just makes sense.

AuditorE

IllinoisLady · May 2013

IllinoisLady · May 2013

IllinoisLady · May 2013

IllinoisLady · May 2013

IllinoisLady · May 2013

RetiredLibby · May 2013

E,

Yes. The audit report can only say that some groups were singled out -- not why the decision was made to do that. We are not in disagreement here -- they did single out certain groups that appeared to be politically active in nature (including liberal groups). The "why" of it is another thing entirely, and appears at this time not to be politically-motivated. Both the former Acting Commissioner and the TIGTA's IG testified that they did not believe there was politically partisan activity involved in the targeting. I still feel for the lower-level folks in Tax-Exempt. I never did apply for a public affairs job at the IRS, even when I wanted a promotion or to get away from an unpleasant job. What would be the good news to talk about there -- we didn't collect as many taxes or audit as many folks as last year, or we collected more and audited more? No thanks! I'm all for paying my taxes because I really love the things they buy me (air traffic controllers first on my list!), but the IRS is too difficult (not to mention too rule-bound and squeaky, even for me!) to work for.

L

Wabbit · May 2013

Just a little video evidence of why it's always better to cooperate than to attack

https://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/photo.php?v=107663646107683&set=vb.136336876521150&type=2&theater

Wabbit · May 2013

I think I agree with this guy about tax exempt status in general ... it's gotten way out of control.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2013/may/19/lane-filler-its-time-to-end-tax-exempt-status/

Some excerpts because the whole thing is too long to post completely. Worth a read though IMO.

"You are a financial supporter of the Westboro Baptist Church. You know, that posse of full-blown whackdoodles from Kansas that descends on our nation’s most tragic moments, particularly military funerals, waving signs that say "Thank God for dead soldiers."

You don’t (please say you don’t) support Westboro by sending cash for their placard-and-Magic Marker budget. What you do pay, infinitesimally, is that church’s taxes, because it, like all houses of worship and so many other institutions, is exempt. You also pay the taxes of its contributors, because the money those folks fork over is tax-deductible.

Why is this notable now? Because the Internal Revenue Service just got caught trying to crash the tea party, punk the patriots and deny conservative groups their 501(C) 4 status. Such status exempts groups’ income from taxes. It also allows "nonprofits" to do political activism without disclosing the names of their donors, as long as the organizations also promote social welfare.

To a politico, the distinction between "promoting social welfare" and "promoting the ideas and candidates that we believe will improve stuff" is a line about an atom wide. But that’s an outrage for another day.

No institution, organization or individual should be exempt from taxes, nor should any donations be tax-deductible.

Nonprofit groups, hospitals, colleges, houses of worship and charities are sometimes the richest institutions on the block. Yet they generally don’t help pay to sweep that block, or extinguish it if it catches fire, or to fight off another nation’s army or fund school districts. And when their contributors throw them $100 or $1 million, these folks deduct those contributions off their tax liability too.

You can argue that a soup kitchen or other charity does work governments can’t afford to handle, thus saving taxpayers money, but it’s a circular argument. The government is broke in the first place because of all the tax exemptions.

Beneath the political skulduggery of what the IRS did in targeting these conservative groups lies a flawed question: What groups in America deserve tax-exempt status, and tax-deductibility for their patrons? The answer is "none."

The best way to avoid arguing over who should be members of the special, privileged classes is to not have any special, privileged categories at all."