I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

Enjoyful

It's the risk factor, Lindasa.  Pressing a button while safely ensconced in some shelter doesn't transmit the horror of war.  Without the risk and without actually SEEING the damage you do, it's just too easy to kill.

I dislike drones on principle, not because it's the current fashion to dislike them.

Chickadee

Blue those pics were just dreamy. Like a fairy tale.



I'm taking another day of shooting for three stars on angry birds....



Moving on to the devious Medicare drones.......we know they are monitoring us through my DH bi-pap machine....he's been very compliant.......but there was this business of an 83k hospital bill for his knee replacement that they keep denying saying he hadn't suffered enough to justify them paying for it. It's been a year.



They have taken pity on us and sent a three page letter saying we are off the hook and the evil hospital must eat the cost because the evil hospital knew or should have known they could not justify the operation. Huh? Surgeon got paid, guess he writes appeals better.

crazy4carrots

Okay, drones are scary AND immoral -- just as war is, IMO.  However, to continue this discussion, pilots in the WWII flew the planes with the bombs, relied on their bombardiers to site the spot to drop the bomb, the bomb was dropped, the plane flew off as fast as the pilot could manage, and he didn't find out until he was back at the base  whether or not the bomb hit the target (and co-incidentally, killed actual people along with destroying buildings, bridges etc.).

So yes, he risked his life by flying the plane, but never actually saw the damage he and his crew inflicted.  And he and his crew praised themselves about what they had done.  And when news came back to the U.S., the Americans and her allies cheered along with them. 

I can understand your abhorrence of drones on principle.  However, I suspect that if America's enemies started employing them to kill your compatriots, you might be wishing you had more of them.  Maybe.....

We civilians can't understand, let alone keep up with, the technologies that have allowed drones to be developed and utilized.  But I'm pretty positive that, unless the earth is destroyed by a giant asteroid, those technologies will continue until wars are completely managed and fought by robots.  Science fiction has a strange way of becoming non-fiction.

Momine

It is not the drones that are the problem. A drone is just a weapon like so many others. The problem, as far as I am concerned, is assassinating American citizens without due process.

scuttlers

Wow Blue! The pictures are so beautiful!!!!! Wow!

Enjoyful

Fought by robots, and waged by the multi-national corporations that stand to gain the most.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, Linda.  I voted for President Obama and will continue to support him on most things, but I do not and will not condone the drone campaign until I hear or see evidence that supports a different position.

Your argument, which is basically peace through superior firepower, doesn't persuade me.

crazy4carrots

E -- Wait a minute!  "Peace through superior firepower"?  My argument????  No way, Hosay!  I HATE wars, and I hate the fact that the U.S. thinks it's the military judge and jury of the world.

Drone warfare is an abomination, but as I said before, it's only the first of many tech changes that are coming.  As you said, the multinationals -- the military industrial complex, the very thing that Eisenhower warned about -- are basically in control.  That's where the condemnation should rightly lie.

pupmom

It also, again, has to do with cost versus benefit. WWII had to be won (disclaimer - both my parents were veterans) so the Allies did what they had to do to bring that about. And thank God we were successful!

But does an attempted assassination of one or two Taliban bad guys really justify the accidental deaths of, for instance, 30 civilians? Me thinks not.

Same as E, I support President Obama, but don't like his drone policy. 

crazy4carrots

And, I have to add this:  Demonstrations against war, against pipelines, against "you name it", never, ever go to the root causes.

Take the Keystone XL pipeline, for example.  Speaking as a Canuck, I would much rather that the pipeline go through the U.S. than through the Canadian Rockies to the Pacific.  But putting that aside, the folks who are demonstrating against the pipeline are conveniently forgetting about the thousands upon thousands of oil and gas pipelines crisscrossing the U.S.  Why aren't they protesting those pipelines and all the potential dangers they present?  Well, because they realize they need those pipelines to heat their homes and run their vehicles and keep their manufacturing alive.  They hate the Keystone because it isn't homegrown, I suspect.  Just as I don't want Keystone to go either east or west.....

Okay, I've said too much!!!  I had great hopes for the Occupy movement.

gardengumby

Blue!!! Gorgeous, just gorgeous!!!

Pip, I understand.  You are leaving so very many memories and so much of your life.  Hugs to you.  I think I'm over the worst of my heebie jeebies now, as everything is getting more real.  I'll have to work out the internet and tv problem.  I'm not much of a TV fan anyway (other than National Geographic, History Channel and a few news channels), but I simply cannot do without Internet, as I still am on-call 24x7 for technical issues at work.  If worse comes to worse, I'll buy a hot spot, as I'm fairly certain that there is 4G in the neighborhood.  We'll find a way, though, as hubby is nothing if not a persistently inventive problem solver.

I'm averse to war.  But if there is going to be war, I far prefer that they send in drones to do pin pointed attacks then to send in a whole bunch of young men to get blown to bits physically and devastated emotionally and mentally.  But - and this is the biggest but - they'd better know damn well who they are targeting. 

Enjoyful

I apologize, Linda.  The pain has me curled into a ball and far too grumpy.

crazy4carrots

As always, (((((((Enjoyful))))))).  Sure wish I could fix your pain, dear friend.  Maybe a Sampsonite whinny and tongue-lick would help?

Enjoyful

I'm thinking more along the lines of a blissful coma.  Just for a few days.

bluedahlia

E have you tried gabapentin?

Enjoyful

Blue,

I tried it about five years ago and it didn't do much for me.  Maybe I should try again?

Wabbit

Happy dance for Chickadee's empty head ... ummm clear head sounds better.

(((hugs))) to alexandria and to Enjoyful for the pain

Gasping at the beauty of blue's wedding pictures!

Drones are merely a tool.  I think it is the science fictiony aspect of unmanned flight that they are using to induce panic about them.  They do no more damage than sending in tanks to blast away or airplanes to drop bombs from too far up to be fought back against.  The question is not about the weapon at all.  It seems to me the question is do we want to say absolutely that we cannot use any weapon to kill American citizens on American soil under any circumstances?  Bush/Cheney gave the order to shoot down Flight 93 rather than letting it crash into a building.  The passengers took the plane down first but that does not change the situation.  Do we want to make that illegal?  We must let them destroy something and lots of somebodies first?  If an extremist group is invading a nuclear facility ... we can't shoot to kill?  With a drone, a tank, an airplane, a helicopter or a troop with a gun on the ground makes no difference IMO.    

Enjoyful ... I hear what you are saying but there is minimal difference between an airplane pilot doing what he is told to do and dropping bombs from beyond reach way up in the sky and a drone doing the same via remote control.  The same people are in charge and making the decisions.   The weapon of choice has nothing to do with the rightness or wrongness of what is being done.

As for a feel good minute ... this guy gets the 'Dad of the Year' award.

crazy4carrots

Blue's neurosurgeon and team do DBS for anorexia nervosa:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/life-video/video-a-surgical-solution-for-anorexia/article9368720/

pupmom

bluedahlia

Give it another try E.  It has been helping me.

Thank you Linda for posting that.  They are now working on a stimulator to make it "smart".  It would release the voltage required, going up and down as required throughout the day.  That would alleviate some of my problems.

Brain surgery is QUITE the experience. 

Chickadee

Wishing us all a in e pain free nap under lovely covers. I'm still a bit achy, so I'm curling up. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

pip57

Chickadee, have you purchased the mighty eagle.  It's worth the 99 cents.

Chickadee

I do have the eagle, but then I don't get three stars! Hunting down golden fruits keeps me occupied to. Silly game, but I like it.

pip57

Very addictive isn't it?  I have the most trouble with the bonus fruit too.

suzieq60

Enjoyful - hugs - rest

Blue - lovely pics

crazy4carrots

Daylight Savings Time begins this Sunday -- can spring (I mean, REAL spring) be far behind??!

bluedahlia

RetiredLibby

Blue, I have been laughing all afternoon!



L

bluedahlia

IDJUTS!

Enjoyful

Oh for cripes' sake - how much time and money did that stupid question waste??



But you know, the Pres is probably within his rights to use drones to defend himself. Second amendment and all that.

Momine

Ha! Love little red ridinghood and his kid. They both look very happy.