I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

pip57

My sister has put three daughters through university in US.  Very expensive.

1Athena1

Yes - education is considered a state obligation here, although the feds can and do get involved.

Bren-2007

Yep .. Gracie .. we have that program here too.  I don't remember if it included University level courses or the local community college.

Bren

shokk

Both of my daughters have been through the AP program here in Texas......

 The oldest had 5 ap courses count for her college......with a perfect score in AP Psychology (one of 6 in TX)......(might be she did so well because her mom is a lunatic)......she didn't have to go far for her case study.....

Interesting is that the college that she went to had changed the name of their freshman English to "Freshman Studies" and were trying to get out of accepting her AP English.......she went to battle....(I was in the middle of having chemo and was so sick).....anyway she finally got the school to accept her credits for freshman English.....

The youngest is a senior now and has had two AP courses that will count for college with two more AP tests to take next month.....(will keep our fingers crossed)

As far as testing US does have national College entrance exams....the SAT and the ACT which are done on a national level ...

Also depending on you studies for example if you are going to be an engineer there are special tests that hs seniors take to qualify for those programs in college......

shokk

Alpal

shokk - glad you brought that up. In KY all the state schools accept the AP credits, but I think you're on your own if you go to a private college. I've read that some highly rated private colleges are no longer requiring either the SAT or ACT as they feel they are not good indicators of success.

shokk

Alpal very good point.......my youngest daughter just had an audition with Vanderbilt......for their music school......I think that she was first choice by the Professor but her SAT scores were just under their qualifications for school acceptance......

the thing is that there are special programs that are now offered for high school students to go and learn to take the SAT and ACT......these programs cost about 5,000.....you are guarantee a high score.......(or a portion of your fee is returned).....anyway because of these courses many schools feel that the SAT and ACT are not a really accurate measure of how well a student might do in any college program.....

This professor wanted my youngest to take one of these programs and retake her SAT.....sorry will not do that......I don't want her to go into a program where she struggles through her whole college experience plus she has to go on scholarship and she still wouldn't have the class ranking to receive full scholarship from a school like Vanderbilt......shokk

revkat

Ah, education, a topic everyone has an opinion on!

My husband is a high school teacher with an average class size of 40. My daughter also attends that school and her classes are about 40 also. This has been true since middle school, although in elementary her classes were only 30.

My husband has taught in 4 different states and 6 different districts and they had various union situations. Where there was a strong union his salary was almost twice as much as where there was no union! Unions also provide support and protection from false accusations by students and vindicitiveness by administrators. As does tenure. Unfortunately it also ends up protecting poor teachers because many administrators are not willing to do their job of working with poor teachers, documenting issues, and firing them. It can happen, I've seen it, but it takes administrators committed to quality in the classroom. Also, in terms of high school science he's found all those states to be fairly uniform in scope of curriculum. My Ds did find some difference as we moved around. The youngest thought that 4th grade in California covered much of the same material as 3rd in Pennsylvania in math especially.

Typically state colleges accept most AP credits. One of my daughters had 7, which would have given her sophomore standing when she entered college. My next daughter is on track to have 9. However, the elite private colleges rarely give credit for AP classes, they are more likely to simply allow students to waive introductory classes.

In public high schools today there are a number of things happening. You have the highly motivated, parent supported kids who are working much harder and learning much more advanced material than I ever did. And then there are those who, for a wide variety of reasons, have pretty much checked out of learning. Good teachers (like my husband ) can engage them again, but it is hard work.

Colleges in the US are expensive. Three years ago when we were looking, my D could have gone to University of Waterloo for less than the state University here. And private universities are nuts on cost. The top schools offer terrific financial aid, but only a fraction of kids can go there. The kids who really suffer are those who must work, help out their families, and try to get through community college for two year and then a state school on federal grants and loans. They don't cover everything, and it is tough.

Education is a right and responsibility reserved for the states in the US. It falls under the "stuff not in the constitution as a federal matter is a state matter" part of the constitution. That said, the federal government has gotten more and more involved through making funds dependent on programs. No Child Left Behind really put the federal government into K12 education in a new way.

pip57

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/Obama-pushes-entry-fee-for-Canadians--116394794.html

The fee would pertain to air travel.OTTAWA — The Obama administration wants Canadians to pay to enter the United States to help ease that country’s desperate financial crunch.A proposed "passenger inspection" fee is outlined in the draft 2012 U.S. federal budget that has been sent to Congress. If adopted, the charge is expected to be levied against millions of commercial air and marine travellers from Canada, Mexico and the Caribbean, the only nations now exempt from the fee, and generate $110 million annually.The fee would not apply to automobile traffic.With about 16 million Canadians flying to the U.S. each year, a $5.50 head tax would raise almost $90 million of the annual total and help pay for more beefed up U.S. border security.The proposed tariff follows a 2009 U.S. entry law requiring Canadians to carry passports and dampens hopes that border issues would be less of a sore point under the new administration, especially as Prime Minister Stephen Harper and U.S. President Barack Obama met in Washington this month to seek a sweeping deal to establish a North American security and trade perimeter."It’s an indication that the United States is going to be looking to generate new moneys to offset their budget deficit on outsiders who don’t vote — and that would be us," said Birgit Matthiesen, of the Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters, Canada’s largest trade and industry association. "The raising of any fees on the Canada-U.S. border is troubling."Colin Robertson, a member of the team that negotiated the Free Trade Agreement with the U.S. and later helped implement the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), believes more U.S. cash grabs are coming."They will be looking everywhere to find money, so it wouldn’t surprise me that our exemption is being lifted," said Robertson, a fellow of the Canadian Defence and Foreign Affairs Institute."Do I think we can succeed in pushing back? Probably not given the desperate financial situation the States is in. But, obviously, we should make our best efforts."This is one where we should make a joint cause with Mexico. The push-back (also) has to come through the airline industry and though the travel agencies in the States."Officials with the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), which is proposing scrapping the fee exemption, did not respond to calls for comment. But an expert on Canada-U.S. relations advises Canadians not to jump to conclusions about the administration’s attitude toward Canada."Don’t worry that Obama is not your friend," said Christopher Sands, a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute in Washington."We’re in a fiscal mess and just about all agencies are looking for ways they can get a little more money, whatever it takes, so that the president doesn’t get accused of a tax increase. It isn’t necessarily intended for Canada," he added."If the fee is something Canadians really would find problematic, they ought to raise a ruckus, not necessarily beat the administration over the head with it, but make it clear to the (U.S.) business community that this would be an additional impediment on trade. If Congress (agrees to) the fee then... through some focused diplomacy... Harper can go to Obama and say, ‘Before we ink this deal on a perimeter, I’d like to have you reconsider the fee.’ " Under NAFTA, Canadians were hit with the same passenger inspection fee beginning in 1994, but were exempted in late 1997 at the insistence of a group of border-state congressmen who argued it was bad for cross-border commerce.

— Postmedia News 

revkat

Oh, as to SAT and ACT testing. They have been show to accurately predict first year college grades, but that's about it. There are a group of colleges who are no longer using them for admissions, but most of the highly competitive colleges still do. If you are going to admit only 10% of your applicants, you have to have some way of weeding through them!

I haven't heard of prep classes costing $5000 around here, but I'm sure they do somewhere. Our experience has been that a motivated kid can prep without a class using sample tests and a few good books. There's also a retest factor at work, nearly everyone does better the second time, so most highly competitive kids take the tests more than once. I wish we could figure out a system where no one prepped or took multiple tests -- just walk in cold and take the thing! But it's not going to happen. 

pip57

How bad is it that we now have to pay more money to do shopping in the US.  How do Americans feel about this?

shokk

PIP why do Canadians shop in the US.......I know that we as US citizens go to Canada for cheaper prescriptions......but why do ya'll come here?......I thought our goods were more expensive????

Oh and I think that is a really stupid idea........(I really don't want to stop Canada except for their trash that is being taken to Detroit)......shokk

revkat

PIP, I did notice that it doesn't apply to auto traffic into the US, so the casual border crosser to do some shopping won't be affected. OTOH, it seems to me that the folks who fly down to Palm Springs every winter probably won't notice another $5.50 each on top of all the fees that airlines charge! I just hate the fact that it says the funds will go to beefing up border security. I'd rather they go to helping the poor or rebuilding our infrastructure!

It seems like there are new fees for all sorts of things being added on now. I'm glad to let tourists share the pain! 

lassie11

Don't worry Shokk - Toronto already stopped sending trash to Michigan - it went to Michigan for a while because they offered it up with the cheapest prices anywhere.

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20101230/toronto-trash-michigan-101230/20101230?hub=TorontoNewHome

Bren-2007

PIP .. that article was the first I've heard of this.  The fee only pertains to air travel, so if you want to drive across the border, I guess you won't have to pay the $5.50. 

Have you heard if the same thing applies to Mexico?

I think the fee is troubling for business purposes.  What do you guys up north think?

Bren

pip57

No shokk...you pay less for a lot of things.  There used to be a huge difference in prices but the gap has definitely become smaller.  However, the exact same shoes (New Balance) that I bought in the States for $35 are $150 in Canada.  Books and paper products are cheaper.  Most foreign items are cheaper too.  One of the reasons for that is because items are shipped to a distributor in the US and then to another Canadian distributor for our markets.  So we have to pay an extra processor here. 

But more importantly, you have access to a larger selection of items than we do in Canada.  There are things we just can't get here.  My dh loves your sodium/msg free Ms Dash.  We can get a few flavours here but in your country there are dozens of them to choose from.

 Food is one thing that I prefer in Canada.  Our ingredients in some of the same foods are different.  For example, some of your cream (not creamer) has corn fructose sugar added.  In the US, the yogurt I use here has sweeteners in it.  So, I really do have to read labels when down south.   

Oh yeah.   Your booze is waayyyy cheaper!  And available in Walmart! 

pip57

Bren, I only know of it because I am currently listening to a Toronto radio show that my son produces.  The host is talking about it.  It was news to me too.

Bren-2007

Yay PIP .. gotta love our walmart!

shokk

PIP bravo for cheap booze!!!!!!!!.....what is funny growing up in Texas we use to travel to Mexico to get even cheaper booze......of course we can't do that anymore because of the war.....shokk

1Athena1

Walmart exploits its employees, causes state Medicaid rolls to inflate, violates labor laws and destroys Mom and Pop businesses. That --and China-- are what enable its prices to be so low. I have boycotted it a long time ago.

pip57

The grass is always greener....eh?

My dh loves the $5 bottles of wine that would cost $15 or more up here.  And the selection.  He can spend hours in your 'mom and pop' liquor stores.  I love wandering around and looking at all the different bottles and packaging gimmicks that are available. 

flash

SAT and ACT prep classes can help but are not necessary.  My  dd did it herself with getting every prep book out there from the library and practicing for a year.  she has issues with taking multiple choice tests but managed to raise her scores incredibly by doing the practice tests.  One tip she did get from a test prep kid: do the test backwards order, you are more likely to answer the important questions and not waste as much time on the "test" questions.

IronJawedBCAngel

My sister obtained her master's degree in Ontario as it was so much cheaper than attending a college in the States.

My grandson goes to a Catholic school and has worn a uniform since kindergarden.  His parents pay some tuition, and my daughter is required to put in so many hours working at school functions to pay for a percentage of his tuition.

The "shirt tucked in" rules became very popular as a result of the boys wearing the pants that were falling off their backsides and showing their underwear and everything else.  It was introduced in my children's high school towards the end of their years there.

While I hate that anyone has to pay a fee to fly to the States, I would support it if it meant they did not cut the funding for cancer screenings and research that the GOP is proposing.  Some of the proposed cuts are terrifying to the poor.

revkat

According to the article this fee is something that people coming from other parts of the world have been paying for awhile, but Mexico, Canada, and the Caribbean have been exempt. I doubt it will have much impact on travel to the US overall.

Anonymous

College is a great deal in the state I live in.  DS goes to the most expensive public university and the tuition is $10,000.  He has I think 4 scholarships, grants - there is a lot of help out there you just have to look for it.   The actual cost of tuition is 60% funded by the taxpayers, so a pretty good deal for the students.  So the 10,000 is only 40% of the actual cost.

That chancellor at the university makes over 1/2 a million a year.

Here are a few samples.  This is a 2 year tech college.

134,000 = Cosmetology professor (hair and nail instructor)

136.000 - Reading professor  for students trying to get their G.E.D.

147,000 - Tool and Die "Professor"

The head of the state teachers union said "They are being treated like slaves on a plantation"

pip57

The main reason things cost more in Canada.....we will pay it.  We may complain about it, but we pay it.

shokk

Well my brother whom retired now works at Walmart part time and is paid in Walmart stock only.....he loves it......

Not sure where all us Grannies and Papaws are going to work if you take away Walmart.....

I am looking forward to being a "greeter" ..........shokk

leggo

Our VAT comes in the form of a Goods and Services Tax in addition to a provincial sales tax. Some items are excluded from one or both taxes such as children's clothing, staple foods, etc.

Edited to add: provincial = 7%, GST = 5%. (I hope these numbers are correct; don't pay much attention...just pay it like PIP said). Also, anyone earning under a certain amount gets a quarterly or semi-annual refund of the GST based on their tax return.

shokk

PIP don't you think that what you guys pay in dry goods is related to you having "free" health care?.....shokk

1Athena1

You Grannies and Papas would likely find lots of Mom and Pop stores where you could build relationships with the small business owners and get great service. You might have to pay a bit more, but you would know that the owners were on more secure footing and their employees were well treated. And your state's economy would be less taxed by the exploding Medicaid costs.

WalMart has devastated entire communities. It is like one of those exotic weeds that grow in lakes and stifle out native plant life.

Canada: sorry about this. I have to side with my country on this. Hard fiscal times here. I appreciate that it may look like a tariff, though.

pip57

Shokkk...no.