I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

ananda8

The President, the Defense Department and the Tea Party worked together to stop a $3 billion dollar unnecessary military expenditure.  http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110217/ap_on_re_us/us_congress_spending;_ylt=AqEdZ5fZxR1oLWg3OXqppAOs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTJsYzBnYXVqBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTEwMjE3L3VzX2NvbmdyZXNzX3NwZW5kaW5nBGNwb3MDMQRwb3MDMwRzZWMDeW5fdG9wX3N0b3J5BHNsawNmdWxsbmJzcHN0b3I-

"Two successive presidents as well as the Pentagon brass have tried to scrap funding for the alternative engine, arguing it is a waste of money. In a letter to Rooney earlier this week, Defense Secretary Robert Gates said total costs could near $3 billion. Given the demands facing the military at a time of high deficits, "programs and initiatives of marginal or no benefit - like the . engine - are unaffordable luxuries," he wrote.

Strictly by the numbers, the vote was a bipartisan one, with 110 Republicans and 123 Democrats supporting cancellation of the funds, while 68 Democrats and 130 Republicans wanted to leave them in place.

But that breakdown obscured the change wrought by the voters last fall. A similar vote in May ended in defeat for opponents of the alternative engine.

At the time, Democrats controlled the House, and only 57 Republicans voted to cut off funds. Many of today's first-term Republicans were mere candidates for office, campaigning with the support of tea party activists and promising to cut federal spending.

"Give these new freshmen credit. They went against their own leadership," said Rep. John Larson, D-Conn., also a foe of the alternative engine.

"No federal agency is exempt," said freshman Rep. Tim Griffin, R-Ark., who said the second engine "is militarily unnecessary and a wasteful use of extremely limited and precious taxpayer dollars."

Anonymous

Wonderful Notself....our military is so evil

Teachers really do NOT have the option went it comes to joining the union,  I had to join the union when i was in college, student teaching.  I first declined, but was told it was the only way I could get liability insurance and all teachers needed to have that.  I later found out that was a croak, you can join but file a form that none of your $ will go to support candidates.   However, the other teachers in the school know you did.

Didn't attack channelsurfer/Lew.  I just exempted her because Detroit is the only city behind Milwaukee on failing our children in all categories.  So as you can see I was being very nice to her

Vouchers disappeared in DC and here because the National (and the state) teachers union is one of the largest contributors to the Democrapic party.  It was number 1 in the gov race here.  That is truly disgusting that politicians including Pres.O couldn't give a river rat's behind what is best for the kids, just what is best to keep them in power.

thenewme

I'm finding the educational system discussion fascinating, but I haven't seen much mention of charter schools.  I have to say, we've recently switched from standard public schools to a local charter school, and the difference is phenomenal!   I know there are pros and cons to the charter school system, but after 10 years of being a regular public school parent at several different schools, I have nothing but the highest praise for the charter system. 

It's free and publicly-funded like the rest of our district schools, and all the charter schools in our area have quite long waiting lists (several hundred on our waitlist). The teachers are non-tenured, employed at will, and are actually paid for performance!  Students wear uniforms and are held to exceptionally high expectations and standards - academically, socially,and personally.  I'm constantly amazed at how much more they do with fewer resources and funding per student than regular public schools.  Standards are very high, and it's wonderful to see the students, families, teachers, and staff rising to the expectations!

Charter schools are a great option and I wish every student could attend a school run as conscientiously and efficiently as ours. 

Anonymous

YES, charter schools here in the middle of the inner city have a 98% graduation rate.  The teachers union is so powerful, when a Democrat is in the gov. mansion the vouchers are severely restricted.

Ever hear of Marva Collins? She is a miracle worker in the charter schools she started in the worst parts of the inner city.  Committed teachers who cared about kids not paychecks took pay cuts to work in her schools. 

BarbaraA

notself, great article, although you could have knocked me over with a feather when I read it. Maybe if more of these agency heads would get serious, we would get rid of more unnecessary and wasteful programs.

As far as charter schools, they are thriving here in my part of FL. Students are wait-listed and they have a 98.5% graduation rate. They require parent commitment and I firmly believe that makes the difference.

edited for the usual typos

kadeeb

In Alabama a teacher is not required to join AEA but as another posted, they are urged to do so because they advertise that they will provide you a lawyer at no cost if you are sued by a parent or student or dismissed. Being dismissed from your "tenured" job is difficult for the administration . A local teacher"tenured" at the college level was let go because of "reduction in force" a policy approved by the state board of education (lack of funds or elimination of the position). It took 2 years of hearings, finger pointing and lawyer rangling to remove him and the college was required to pay him the entire 2 years (that process is called "fair dismissal"). Removal of a teacher because of failure to produce educated students would take forever and be virtually impossible to prove. Two years of paying lawyers is a high price.

Otter is right about the politics of the situation. Alabama's politics have done a turn about during my day and age. Alabama used to be a democratic state (except for presidential elections. Even when the entire state went democrat, Alabama voted republican for president.) George Wallace and the democratic machine ruled the state for generations. We recently elected another Republican governor and have a legislature to match. But I'm not sure anything has changed except for those pesky "labels".

edited for Oh crap I still can't spell! 

rosemary-b

Nothing in notself's article said the military was evil. It did say that some of the new Republicans were working with the Democrats. The only way we will get anything done in this country is if everyone works together. I think it is a good sign.

leggo

My apologies for barging in on your thread, but I've been following since the school discussion started. I tried googling for answers but haven't had much luck. I have a question for the other Canadians. Do /did your kids have all these strict rules in school like they do in the states (like uniforms and such)? The reason I ask is I remember a lady posting a couple of years ago (I think she was from Chicago) that her son was suspended for not tucking in his shirt. I never got over that...couldn't believe what I was reading. I'm curious to how it differs from province to province. Do you pay school fees etc?

leggo

Also, the bullying thing. Where I live, it's simply not tolerated. Your not talked to, suspended; you''re just kicked out and have to find another school. I've not heard of one case of bullying in schools in the last 15 years. Also, do other provinces have teaching assistants to help students that are academically challenged? Do they have them in the US?

bluedahlia

No we do not pay any fees.  In Elementary School. the child must be baptized in order to attend free.  If the child is not Roman Catholic, the parents have to pay tuition fees (until the child is converted), as one must be Roman Catholic to direct their taxes to the catholic board.  If the child is Roman Catholic and the parents direct theire taxes to the public board because they are not, we must still accept the child even though we are receiving no funding for that child. Some elementary schools have uniforms, some don't.  It depends on parents and school deciding this.  The High Schools have uniforms which are mandatory and very strict with same.  I'm not sure about other Provinces. 

molly52

Anonymous

February 16, 2011
Ground Report from Wisconsin: Governor Scott Walker and the "Budget Fix" bill

Dear HillBuzz,

I work for the state of Wisconsin, at a public university in an administrative role. I feel like I know the academic community very well because of my long association with the Wisconsin public university system (nearly my whole life in fact).

Republican Governor Scott Walker was elected in November 2010 by a pretty good margin, and the State legislature flipped from Dem to Republican also. On Friday the announcement was made about the "budget fix," and the Governor said he had the National Guard ready in case there was civil unrest. Immediately things like this started popping up: http://www.notmywisconsin.com/ There has been a lot of hand wringing, teeth gnashing, comparisons of Walker to Hitler, and comments like "We are witnessing the destruction of our State." People around here are genuinely depressed!

Thousands of people have been hanging in and around the Capitol building in Madison. The news today said that the budget committee heard comments from the public until 3:00 this morning, and finally closed the doors. People are camping out. Teachers are calling in sick to go to Madison. Hundreds of people are marching around the Governor's private home. The Madison Public School district didn't have school today because more than 40% of the teachers had called in "sick." High School kids around the state are holding their own protests in solidarity with their teachers.

The budget fix bill is available online if anyone wants to see what is being asked of public employees. It looks reasonable to those on the outside, but it will be a sudden big chunk coming out of our paychecks. It would be nice if they could do it a bit more incrementally, to help people adjust, but that won't help the immediate problems with the State budget.

I personally feel that as a public employee that I really shouldn't have a lot of say over my job. I serve at the pleasure of the taxpayers, and if I don't like the conditions, I am free to pursue a job in the private sector. I also think I've had a pretty good ride these last 20+ years, and am a bit embarrassed that so many people now know what a good deal we've had for so long. However, I can only speak for my experience as a University employee. We have great working conditions, good equipment, great young people and bright colleagues to spend the days with. And many of us, especially the faculty, have great flexibility in our daily schedule. And most of us have excellent job security.

I won't presume to speak for classroom teachers, who have very different working conditions than I do, nor will I comment on Prison workers, and so many of the other people who this will affect. Some public employees really do have crappy jobs, and probably don't make enough money for what they do, and the fringe benefits have always been the supplement that makes it worthwhile to teach, say, in Milwaukee Public Schools (where your life is in danger every day).

The budget committee votes on this bill tomorrow. If it passes, and there are riots, or teacher and worker walk outs, sick outs, or whatever, I kind of wish the Governor would go PATCO on them, and fire everyone. If it doesn't pass, and there are mass layoffs, I wonder if those who aren't laid off will feel bad that their colleagues lost their jobs because they weren't willing to give up a little bit. It will be a wild day at the Capitol tomorrow!

Signed:
Lucy in Wisconsin

molly52

Sorry Blue, didn't see your response.  I guess I took too long writing. 

Bren-2007

Molly/Blue .. how does that system work with college?  Do you taxes cover that or is tuition required?  Do the students need to take out student loans?

thanks,
Bren

molly52

Bren

both and often yes,   Funding is a set amount per student,  schools are free to set the additional amount - different programs can be more expensive, Some schols/programs charge more in the first year.  If parents don't cover and parents income is below a threshold, students can apply for a loan.  Loan is interest free while in school.

crazy4carrots

Bren -- Community colleges (perhaps similar to your junior colleges) and universities in Ontario require tuition fees.  Students who qualify can obtain government loans.

bluedahlia

Bren, No Colleges and Universities are different, but I can tell you they are a lot cheaper than the U.S.  My children all took out student loans.  My daughter was in school for 7 yrs to become a lawyer and works in a prestigious law firm.....came out of the best Law School and only paid $60,000.  My younger daughter went to University for 4 years and it cost her $18,000 in school loans.  My son the same.

Bren-2007

The school loans are interest free here too while in school.  But there is a bill in committee right now that would change that so interest starts accruing immediately.

That sucks for the programs that are so expensive.  The community colleges are a little less than University.  My son attended a community college for two years, then transfered to a 4-year University that was known for it's math and science program.  He's up to almost $100K in student loans.

There is a program in San Diego that if you teach at a Title I school after graduation for four years, they will pay a portion of your school loans.  My DIL was able to do that.

Bren

leggo

Thanks for answering my questions ladies. I always find it fascinating how things differ so much from province to province. Does anyone know if they use a test similiar to our Canadian Achievement Testing in the US?

bluedahlia

I forgot to mention...yes, the elementary schools have teaching assistants.

Bren-2007

Yes .. Gracie .. we do.  Each state has it's own SOL (standard of learning) testing beginning in grade school.  We also have the SATs in high school.

bluedahlia

The interest free loans can continue to be interest free, if the student is not making enough to start paying it back, once they finish school.  It is called "Interest Relief Program".

leggo

Seems our university tuitions are on par, blue. My eldest son's 4 year program also cost about $18K. That included books, which often times cost 1/2 as much as the tuition itself.

leggo

Bren, the Standards of Learning are State based? Not country wide? Just want to clarify.

Bren-2007

Yes, each state has their own.

Bren-2007

Hi Gracie  .. this is from the Commonwealth (state) of Virginia. 

Virginia supports teaching and learning through statewide system of support and accountability for the commonwealth's public schools and school divisions.

The commonwealth sets rigorous academic standards, known as the Standards of Learning (SOL), and measures achievement through annual SOL tests and alternative and alternate assessments. The system provides schools, school divisions and the Virginia Department of Education with critical data to inform the development and implementation of effective instructional strategies and best practices.

SOL assessments measure student achievement in English, mathematics, science and history/social science. Students are assessed in English and mathematics in grades 3-8 and at the conclusion of certain high school-level courses. SOL tests in science and history are administered in grades 3, 5 and 8 and at the end of high school-level courses in these subjects. Some students may take tests at other grade levels based on the school's curriculum.

crazy4carrots

So I guess if one were considering a move to the U.S. and had school-age children, one would have to carefully consider the individual state standards of education.  How is international testing handled, I wonder?

pip57

Lindasa, yes.  I have had 3 friends return from jobs in the US because of the school system.

Bren-2007

Linda and PIP ... you would also need to factor in the cost of a university education in the states.  My son is at the masters level and his student loan payments are as much as my house payment each month. 

Bren

leggo

Thanks Bren. Very informative. One final question regarding US education. I gather from reading that the US also has Advanced Placement programs. Here in Canada, I think it's the best thing ever. If your grades allow in high school, you can take university level classes in high school and have them count as credits towards university. Getting some credits for free in university is a real bonus, I think. Same in the US?