MIDDLE-AGED WOMEN 40-60ish

Tomboy

Momine! how did you do that! the little swastika? you are GOOD...boobs on a platter, and now this!

elimar86861

Thanks, Momine!  I like the original meaning a lot better!!!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

When I was writing on another thread, I came up with yet another cancer cliche:  "Take the power back from cancer."

This is about how I feel about the difficulties about moving forward after cancer, and meaning after active treatment has finished up.  It is about the mental struggles more than the physical struggles which, in many cases, can last way longer than the physical treatment of the cancer.  Over and over, women write that they are mopey and feel out of it.  I think there is some form of PTSD involved.  

I absolutely hate the way that cancer takes things from our lives.  The only way I can think of to fight back is to try and carry on as much as I can, as if I never had cancer.  People talk about (that other cliche) "finding a new normal," that's fine, but as everyone on this thread knows I always shoot for as close to old normal as I can get.  

Maybe I am short-sighted and see from only my own perspective, but sometimes I do think moving on does amount to forcing yourself to think and act certain ways (at least at first) and then before too long it feels quite natural.  It is kind of like that little experiment of non-happy people acting happy and cheerful and smiley; and, lo and behold, even tho' they might have been faking it, the act of doing so actually changed their brain chemistry to closely resemble people who did consider themselves happy.  Maybe moving on involves some will power.

elimar86861

Writing on this thread and others has sure helped me to get in touch about how I think and feel about my own cancer saga.

Momine

Kath, I am a former Classics nerd and I like linguistics. We are the kind of people who have an entire bookcase of dictionaries for all kinds of languages.

barbe1958

e, I think some people thing "moving on" means "leaving behind" and as we all know, we can never let this shit out of our sights. So that is confusing. It's like "forgive and forget". Like, seriously, I can forgive, but not forget!! We understand the concept, but it's just impossible to do.

I like to think I've moved AROUND cancer - it's behind me, but still in my radar. And, it DID exist...

Cancer has taken the innocence we all had in our own mortality. We've seen the bullet that may actually kill us. We've lost trust in our bodies and being "good" all those years didn't make any difference in the end! We should have eaten desert first all those years and I think it's that kind of anger and frustration that is prevalent in our emotions. I, too, like being able to "talk my way" through this crap.

MinusTwo

Barbe - GREAT thought.  Maybe the horse is out of the barn door, but I think I'll swear to eat dessert first from now on.

elimar86861

I wouldn't say that I have forgotten or will forget any of it.  I just want to mentally reclaim my life.

Move on?  Move around?  Each to their own terminology.

barbe1958

e, you missed my point!!! Saying about "forgive and forget" was just an analogy of terms people throw around thinking they're being helpful.

Also, when people say "move on" or "get over it", I like to use a different method of going "around" it. Yep, to each their own terminology, but I thought I was making a clear point....sigh.

Anonymous

Barbe, thanks for the explanation. I know, for me, after 1st DX (years after), I could go periods without thinking of BC even with my non-reconstructed chest. It just evolved to a state of acceptance most of the year (my yearly mammo for the other side and time for new bra/prosthesis) for me. I'm trying to get back to that now: not denial, just didn't constantly think about it. But that's just me

Loral

I think about it all the time, but life goes on and we go on.

elimar86861

Barbe,  I do miss your point a lot.  I don't know why.  Sometimes I think we are using different words for something similar, but I am never really sure.  Was your point the opinion that we cannot be the same as we were?  Was your point the opinion that it is in our best interest to have continual awareness because our we have more likelihood to grow more cancer in the future?  What is your method of "getting around it" because I really do not understand?

2TA, I think I understand where you are coming from.  It pretty much describes how I feel.  I don't think of it as denial either, just a conscious effort to push the cancer out of my mind, to make way more more enjoyable things.

p.s.  My comments come from my perspective as an early-stager and I should add that I realize that women with more advanced and Stage IV cancers might have a greater challenge to do what I am suggesting, but that they should also try because otherwise I think the QOL suffers when cancer occupies too much time and thought.

Tomboy

i am just happy to be getting some energy back, to do things that i love, and sometimes for minutes at a time, i can forget! when i am watching a movie, i can frget during the whole thing! but i do get jealous, when my boyfriend is watching the basketball game. their arms! they look so strong and shapely, no LE! and i miss my old arms....

barbe1958

My point is how easy it is for someone to tell us to move on or get over the cancer and how hard it is to do that. In fact, impossible. We can certainly function and live, but it will always be there. I, too, hate the term "new normal". Describe "normal" for me!

elimar86861

Easier said than done, o.k., I do understand that point.  Impossible?  I understand but don't agree on that.  It is my goal to move on and get over it.  I am not quite there, but I do feel like I can get there in the not too distant future.

Barbe, Before I got my Dx I had a 1 in 8 chance to get BC, and I did know of those odds, but did not give it much thought or live in fear that I might be the "one."  I led a happy-go-lucky, non-cancer existence.   Now my risk is higher (don't know what the ratio would be exactly) but I think I can once again get back to not living in fear or giving it much thought.  Yes, my scars will always be there.  Yes, all of the medical info. I have had to absorb will be there.  But I do feel I can have a sense of freedom from cancer domination in my mind.  I guess that would be my description of "moving on" and, because I think I can get to that point, my opinion differs from yours in that I say possible.  (I feel like I am almost there already.  It took time and it took some mental effort.)

My initial comment was about those who feel an ongoing dread, or have lost the joy of life because of this disease.  There are several ways to get help for that.   My suggestion was that one way was to search out the strength inside your own mind to push you forward. 

-----------------------------------------------

kathec,  It is terrible that cancer leaves us with lifelong souveniers like LE.  When the physical reminders are there is is definitely a harder struggle to "move on" but then it becomes even more important for the mind to help you do that.  You pointed out what I do see as a pattern...The normalcy first returns for just minutes at a time, then some hours, then days and longer.  It is a process.

Dianarose

Eli-tumor marker holding at 31. I will take that as it is in the normal range. My friend of 30 yrs is going for a breast ultra sound because of a bad mammogram  and the same results when they re-did it. I think a biopsy is the only way she will know for sure. An ultra sound always said I was fine. I don't  think too highly of them.

mstrouble16

This is what I know about me since my diagnoses, I am not the same person I was before, am I ever going to be, not sure, am I trying, YES.  But I know I'm damn tired of people who almost die when they have a cold telling me HOW I should be doing or feeling 2 1/2 years later.   Which is why other than my hubby, sister, brother-n-law, my kids and y'all I lie!  To everybody else I'm fine, I have good days and bad, I don't tell them that just getting out of bed now is a chore for me, between the bone and joint pain, the insomnia, the fatigue, (all thanks to Tamoxifen) to my sensitivity to changes in the brand of meds (that recently sent me to the ER with heart palpitations everything checked out ok with the heart, cardiologist definitely thinks it was medication induced, since CVS had just changed the brand of my Lortabs). As my oncologist tells me all the time which I now say, having cancer and going through treatment is a "marathon not a sprint".  That does mean I don't get pissed at my self when I come home from work and I have to take a nap just to make it to 8:00pm.  But I'm here, I've made it and I'm making it. 

And I haven't even begun to talk about  the physical reminders that I have, the scars, from hip-to-hip and all on my chest.  That is my daily reminder of where I was and where I am, so my response to people who judge and don't know is, BITE ME!  I guess that's very New Orleans of me!

I guess what I'm saying is you are all remarkable women for making through this, don't judge yourself to harshly! 

.  

lovewins

I really enjoy reading this thread and have only posted once or twice. It is full of intelligent ladies. I just finished rads 1 week ago today.  Right now what I am feeling is different or separated from everyone because I feel or felt my experience made me different, but when I really think about it that is true for a lot of things...no one really knows what it is like to be in any ones shoes really.  I am becoming a new me....we are all growing and changing no matter what circumstance we are in and evolving into our new selves.  I hope BC is stepping stone for me, I hope I don't linger and become stuck.  I can see the more a person has to go through as far as stage and treatment would be a huge consideration though.  I still have some SE and have to tell myself to keep it moving.  I can't say I have moved on from BC I still get twinges of fear it will come back...but I think to some degree I have decided to put blinders on and keep going if that is possible?  I take a peek now and then but I don't think it would do me much good to dwell on thoughts of bc.  I am setting my sights on moving on...but I know I am forever changed.  # IMHO.

Eph3_12

lovewins-"Right now what I am feeling is different or separated from everyone because I feel or felt my experience made me different" I remember feeling this very thing.  It was daily for quite a while right after finishing active treatment but now it's a transitory thing.  It crops up occasionally & I'm not sure why, but as you say, It is true for a lot of things!  Congrats on being done with the fake & bake tanning machine.  Here's too better days.

heartnsoul76

mstrouble - I agree, I always tell people I'm fine.  Otherwise they act like something's still wrong with me (cancer) or else I get their pity - ugh. Screw both those attitudes.

I have not had any trouble moving on from cancer.  It's probably my ADD, that and all the worries of the usual day to day existence that keep me constantly distracted.  I finally got to the point where I refused to think any strange ache or pain was the cancer again.  Yes, it was definitely a mental effort.  My MO does take my tumor markers every 3 months and they've always remained in the low teens.  I hate going every three months and I really hate have my blood drawn every three months BUT now we have established consistency with my TMs so that makes it all worth the peace of mind it gives me.

Dianarose - you're right, your tumor markers are normal so keep on keeping on.  I know the AIs are painful, though.  I've been on Tamoxifen for 3 1/2 years and I think the toxicity is starting to build up.  It's absolutely killing my bones, every single one of them.  I'm thinking about asking her for some Lortabs to help me get through the roughest times.  Seems like she would rather I take one or two of these when I need it than quit this damn pill.

elimar86861

lovewins, You are not even a year out from your Dx, barely past your active treatment.  To still feel in the domain of cancer is very normal under those circumstances.  It is all very fresh.  As more time passes, I think it will take up less of your life.  I hope so.

Oh yeah, Dianarose, a 31 sounds like a very agreeable number to me.  Best wishes for your friend and her biopsy too.

heartnsoul76

Whoops!  I did forget I always remember I have cancer when I have scans or tests because there's no escaping that scanxiety feeling.  And I have a diagnostic mammogram tomorrow, which I had forgotten about. See how my ADD works?  So now I am scanxious, haha.

macatacmv

we're with you for your scan, heartnsoul! Let us know how it goes. At least you had forgotten about it for a while. lol. See there is a good side of our brain fog, we forget to be scared. 

Anonymous

Lovewins, celebrate the milestones, they are important.

One of the BC did was open my eyes and remove the blinders. I had to learn so much, so fast to be able to ask intelligent questions which helped me to understand to make better choices for myself. I was also a caregiver to a fiancé with cancer many years ago. Then I was only the cheerleader and caregiver. Being the one going thru it, I had to give myself an advanced education in which affected me, still be caregiver to my family and be the cheerleader for me and family members. Big tiring, exhausted burden. 

And about milestones, thanks for all the support, it helped tremendously! This thread understands that we're not young any more (well, maybe young at heart), but far away from old age. My colonoscopy and endoscopy went well, small polyp in each but not a problem. Yup, it's the 5-year plan for me. You all have magic powers because I had been beating myself up because I waited so long. Will not add that anxiety to me again!

H&S, wishing you the very cleanest of scans! Squeaky clean!

Momine, thank you for the interesting explanation and history of the swastika. I had seen it before not related to Hitler and didn't give it much thought. Glad you took the time to explain.

elimar86861

HnS,  Scanxious sounds funny when you say it out loud. Haha!  Good Luck getting through all the squishing today.  If you get same day results, report back...we will be waiting to hear.

2TA,  You get an A+ for using the bold face type on the word far.  The closer we can get to good health, the less actual age becomes an issue.  "You're as young as you feel," the saying goes.  I felt like I was pushing 70 when I was on the chemo.  Coming off of it, I could feel myself doing a "Benjamin Button" and growing younger.  (One thing that was unfortunate was I had to renew my drivers license last year, so I am stuck with what I think is a more aged look in that picture for six years now.  Arrgh!)

luvmygoats

Lovewins - welcome to the Middies (though we don't ask to see DL to verify age). And I agree 100% with Eli. Anyone who got chemo has certainly more reminders. Heck you can't even be what 6-7 months from finishing chemo not to mention rads - unless they were pre-chemo. Days I go by and it doesn't cross my mind except when I down that nasty little pill in the morning cocktail of others. Then I'll reach for something wrong and Oh boy I remember. But hourly - nah. Daily - nah. Scan time, doc visit - yes. But for the most part it's not here. Do I wish I didn't have to take the AI - sure I do. I do hurt but then I'm more an oldie than a middie and would I anyway - yes. Am I the best at exercising - big fat NO. Do I feel better than a year ago - yes indubitably. Would I feel better if I didn't weigh what I do - yes of course. Medicine talks about "tincture of time" as healing. With BC treatment that is more important than with most other diseases.

New picture Eli if you decide to move. HaHa. But pretty sure moving is not worth the cost of new DL picture. Too bad if you fibbed and say you lost it they would just computer in your old pic.

HNS - in your pocket today for your squishy - someone else has termed them slammograms - I completely stole that. Please let us know results.

I know not in line with squishies but I have to go to the dentist. I am not a good dental patient and though DH likes this guy (new in the last year or so) I don't. Thinking about changing to local guy that DD used to go to - it was just too convenient when she was in school. DH remembers him as being uber expensive but I just remember all those coatings put on back teeth that DH's insurance did not cover. I hate to be inquisitive because I also know staff and him, not like an anonymous call about costs. This new dentist thinks I need my porcelain crowns replaced with gold. Not happenin' to perfectly good ones. The oldest is 12-13 years old. One of them I don't like but it was the shape, placement of the tooth/gums not the dental expertise. OK whine over with. More coffee and breakie.

luvmygoats

Oh Dianarose - I big round of applause for your markers. How's married life treating you and DH?

staynsane

I understand why many of you prefer to tell friends and acquaintances that you are doing "fine" instead of how you actually are feeling.  No one (very few) really wants to hear the truth of the aftermath of treatment.  Seems the common thought is that your cancer was taken care of, everything is good now, move on.

Personally, every day post surgery is getting me closer to "the old me."  But until my skin graft scar is completely removed, I have a daily reminder when I look in the mirror.  Funny that I can overlook the main mastectomy scar.  My appearance doesn't bother me as much as it did right after surgery, and I'm ok with the fact that my landscape has changed, but my self-confidence did drop a rung or two.  Not that I was a centerfold model pre-diagnosis.  Not that I WAS my boobs.  Probably mostly because I miss having a great chest with a lot of feeling that was a source of enjoyment for my husband and me.  It's just not the same now.

And after almost two years, when neighbors see me, they get a pathetic, well-meaning, caring look in their eyes as they ask me how I'm feeling.  "Fine.  All good!"

macatacmv

Ha ha, eli on the crummy DL pic. Quite a few years ago,when I reached a certain age, my kids were in high school I wasn't taking care of my parents yet, I decided to start taking care of me. I joined a rigorous exercise program, lost some weight, started styling and coloring my hair, got contacts, in other words changed my appearance big time. I had to take my DD off island to get her DL (is this a new abbreviation?)  reinstated, whole nother story for another time! Anyway, after waiting for hours at this office I decided to get a better picture for my license ($50 who cares). The woman taking the picture said it was the only time she could remember when someone had a new picture when they looked so much younger! 

Of course then life came back into play, I had to take care of my parents while they declined and passed away, my kids moved away, my son was in Iraq for a while and I was dx with BC. I had been so busy taking care of everyone else. So now two years later after getting the med combo right, exercising (yoga) eating better and losing weight, everyone is saying I look great again. And right now I am feeling good, so I say thank you, it's hard work being healthy.

heartnsoul76

Oh, hooray hooray!  My mammogram was good!  I don't believe it!  The last one (1 1/2 years ago) was so bad that I kept putting off getting this one.  And it led to a very painful stereotactic biopsy that I was whimpering through the whole 40 minutes.  And I was so afraid that because of that biopsy they were going to say "architectural changes", you need to biopsy the biopsy scar tissue because it looks different.  It's a vicious cycle, but oh hooray, it didn't happen.  I feel like I'm free!  After 19 months of dread!

macatacmv

Yay!!! Heartnsoul, relax and celebrate! I am smiling just from reading about your joy!