MIDDLE-AGED WOMEN 40-60ish

Lily55

Because cells that are in the active growth phase are far more susceptible to damage and disruption and aggressive tumours and cancers are active more of the time so therefore more susceptible to chemo etc - it is why chemo is timed the way it is also....to get maximum impact at optimum growth time

elimar86861

Jlynn, This is my very basic explanation...many of the cancer drugs are cytotoxins (cell poisons) and they harm all cells in the body, but the most uptake goes on in the cells during their growth phase so, more cell growth, more poison going in.  Aggressive cancers would have some of the most rapidly growing cells, and they will get the most poison.  Other cells that grow rapidly, like lining of the mouth and your g.i. tract or hair follicle cells also get a good dose of the poison and this is why your taste buds and tummy commonly get S/Es and why losing hair is common.  When you find out the chemo drug(s) your doc has planned, you can Google and find out the exact way yours will work.  Some other chemos target cancer cells because of certain features of their growth, or based on what substance causes the cancer to grow.  You never did fill in your diagnosis, so I'm not sure if that would apply in your case.

barsco1963

Jlynn - glad that you are happy with what your onc has prescribed for you and that you are ready for it. Hoping that tx kicks the crap outta the cancer for you, but treats you with gentleness. Let us know when tx day is and we will all hop in your pockets to be with you.

Eli - my dad has a lot of titanium in his back and we keep teasing him that if he doesn't behave, we're going to trade him in piece by piece. Titanium is going for a good price these days. lol

Went tobogganing again today - when am I gonna learn that I am too old for that sort of thing. The jacuzzi tub might get a good workout again tonight. (less bubbles this time though - lol)

I am going for scans on Monday if anyone is interested in a PP. Hoping that the tamo is still doing it's thing!

luvmygoats

Barsco - Wishing you the bestest results from your scan on Monday and in your pocket.  Who's bringing the Cheetos?

Dianarose

barsco1963- I will be at you PP. On Monday I am making 91 pies for a fundraiser for a man who has sinus cancer. I will make an extra one and bring it along. What kind would you like?? I am also making some carmel corn so I will bring that too. I hope someone brings cocktails....

I hope your scans go fine!!! 

barsco1963

Yes, don't forget the Cheetos!! I am partial to the crunchy ones. And pie too! Dianarose - I am ok with pretty much any kind of pie so whatever you have extra of would be fine. Do you have a specialty? However, pls save me some snacks as I can't eat for four hours before scans - if you see me reaching in for a snack, someone needs to slap my fingers!

Dianarose

barsco- I am making blueberry and blueberry crumb, key lime, choc cream, banana cream and lemon meringue.

What kind of scan are you having? I hope it's early so you can eat before lunch time. I hate that ones that you can't even have a cup of coffee. I am cranky until I have my coffee.

Eli- If that is your long hair in the photo I really have hair envy.

elimar86861

Mmmmmm...blueberry pies.  Antioxidents never tasted so good.  The Cheetos are a given.

barsco, What scan is it gonna be this time?  If PET, hope you don't get the PET hangover that HnS76 got.

D-rose, That's no wig, and what's more that is my natural color.  Oh, there is some grey if you know where it is hiding, but one of my key genetic traits is that my family does not go grey early.  Makes up for some of the other ones!!!  At age 80, less than half of my mom's hair was grey.  I'm letting my hair grow long again because I am planning to do a second donation to Pantene's Beautiful Lengths.  It's not really as nice as the last hair I gave them because Tamox. made it finer with more breakage.  I need about one more inch of it til I can donate and leave enough on me for a decent bob or something.  Wish I could get it chopped before my surgery, and have less of it to care for but I've come this far so will keep it on til I get a bit more length.  Thanks for having hair envy of my locks. 

Jlynn0807

Ok.  I will get out my labs, and fill in the EXACT diagnosis, counts, etc.  But here's what I can tell you off the top of my head.  I have a 4cm mass left breast, nodes under arm affected, nodes in chest wall affected (both biopsied/confirmed....actually, all biopsied...I've had 3 total, and a helluva time getting that rotten port put in by a radiologist straight from the depths of HELL, oh and I had the PET and a Mumma (sp?  heart's ok, all of my bloodwork is beautiful....go figure).  Also a supsicious area T11 spine, so I am Stage IV.  The onc wanted to try Tamoxiflen (sp, I am unsure).  I wasn't too happy with this.  Pathetically, having just been given the Stage IV dx, in my head I said "sure, you just don't wanna waste the chemo meds on me".  That was Monday.  He met with his "cancer friends", and my breast surgeon (also wonderful, but not needed right now).  Said they had my pathology slides up on the wall and all, and the room was split re the cocktail of chemo, but that indeed I should have it.  Not the other drug...which was just a pill...an estrogen blocker I guess, to keep the cancer from spreading.  I truly WANTED chemo, sadly, because I will get sick, bald etc. if it means living longer.  It might not, but I am sure going to give it a whirl.  Anyway, I have the paper here and he is giving me (I believe on Friday, after a port flush) Pertuzumab plus trastuzumab plus docetaxel.  That's my combo. 

Your answer was pretty good!!  Sometimes, it takes someone who speaks our language to make things more understandable.  He (my onc) explains it and says "do you understand", and I say "uh-huh".  and in my head I'm thinking "no, but I will go home and look it all up".

If you had told me before I got diagnosed that being on a board here and venting and asking questions would help, I'd of laughed...and been quite wrong too!  It helps....A LOT....to know you're not alone in all of this.

Thank you for explaining.

What's up with the Cheetos?  I ate a bag today, the crunchy ones, before I read about 'em here, and told my husband they were good for cancer.  I am going to eat anything and everything I feel like it til Friday!!!

Barsco...thank you.  I have to tell you that hearing that from him changed my attitude quite a bit!!  I just wasn't happy with taking a pill, seemed like there was more to do.  Do I want chemo?  Well, yes and no...the no being the obvious...because first that I need it at all, but then the side effects.  Give me a good excuse to lie and around a day or so and boss the house around!! Also wasn't happy to have a port that was just for decorative purposes either!!  I will be thinking of you, and I hope your test goes well for you!!

Mar....you're not too far from me.  Maybe one day we can meet up for lunch!!  Luv, Mom and Lily....I'm getting the picture now, so thank you.  It seems to help when someone who doesn't speak ONCOLOGIST explains it, though he does try with his pics and diagrams.  I guess the problem is as soon as he says "CANCER", I hear nothing more.  My husband picks it all up.  However, this last night, soon as he said chemo, I was all ears.

Warm wishes, and thanks to all!

Lynn

Oh, and whoever said the thing re El's hair....What a head of hair is right.  I've got nice hair, but not like you do!! It's beautiful!

luvmygoats

Eli - I must admit that is not how I pictured you.  Expected something like Barsco's or my short bob now.  Mine is total white.  Went grey in my early 30s but covered it for oh like 25 years.  Finally roots grew so fast I was having it colored every 3 weeks.  Had enough, highlighted it and let it grow out.  I don't fight my hair.  Fix it once/twice a week for something special.  Otherwise it is wash and however it falls I'm happy with.  Love the page topper crocuses in the snow.

OHHH - Dianarose, If I need a scan or anything in the future I would like a chocolate cream pie with I bet homemade crust.  In fact I may have to look it up and make one but prob. not the crust.  But have all the makings for a pumpkin coconut bread pudding (1/2 recipe only for DH and I).  Will let you know how it turns out.

Lynn - In your pocket for Friday.  Have you read the thread on things to do b4 chemo?  I think it is long but it certainly gives you things to take you mind off it and things you might not have otherwise thought of.

heartnsoul76

barsco - Tobaganning sounds fun and in our heads we're never too old, right?  A nice long soak in the jacuzzi should fix everything.  Well, that and some Ben Gay and a pain pill, haha.  Count me in for the pocket party!  Is Kahlua and coffee okay with you guys? I'm freezing and wondering where my hot flashes have gone now that I need them. Hope it's not a PET scan - that PET hangover was a doozy!

Marlegal - every now and then, my eyes well up with tears when I think about what could have happened.  Then I stop that train of thought as fast as I can and quickly say a prayer.  I can't wait until the intensity of this dies down.

Dianarose - you must be a wonderful cook!  Hope the fundraiser is a smash!

Elimar - hair envy here for sure.  My hair used to look just like that before chemo.  Now it's long again, but with a distinct wave I have to work with.  I got it cut the other day and I like it a lot more.  When it's straight, it looks like a long shag and when I use rollers, it's a mess of curls.  So now I have two options.  Before chemo, no amount of "product" would make it hold a curl.  I also cannot get out of a hair salon without buying more "product".  I have "product" I need to throw away!

Lynn - lots of people's hair grows back in the same way it left.  Mine just happened to come in curly and with time, the curl relaxed and it's really easy to style now.  My favorite part when it grew back in was the cute pixie cut and I almost kept it.  Good point from Luv to check out the chemo thread - I probably packed enough stuff to last me a week each time but I was never bored or hungry, haha.  We'll be in your pockets Friday. Since alcohol probably isn't a good idea, how about some of my crockpot hot chocolate?  I'll make it lactose-free, Mar!

valjean - I just remembered you asked about "Flight" with Denzel Washington.  We ended up watching a different movie that night, but tonight we're absolutely going to watch Denzel!  The other movie we watched was something I'd never heard of - "Seven Psychopaths" - but it was so funny.  I was tempted both by the good-looking Mark Wahlberg and the hilarious Christopher Walken.

Eph3_12

Momine-wonderful story about your Gram!

Jlynn0807

Flight.  I watched.  Right after bc dx.  Within a few moments, the actress in it (I don't wanna say too much here) mentions her mother had passed of bc.

I didn't watch too much of it after that!!  Was a little dark.  I wasn't in the mood for it.

Just my thoughts.....

I will indeed check out the link of the what to do's before chemo.  Funny, heart, my onc said he had a woman same thing.  Had straight hair, and it came in curly after it started growing back!  At first....like you.

Have a jacuzzi on deck.  Sitting.  Empty.  I keep begging my husband to fill it...he tells me the second I have to get out of it in the cold air, I won't go back in.  He COULD be right.  I don't do cold well...but the idea of a hot soak sure sounds good to me right about now!!

marlegal

Barsco, why the scans? I'll be there with my trademark cinnamon buns, and this time I'll remember to bring the napkins Coffee or tea?

Jlynn, I'd love to schedule a lunch...I've met many women from the boards and from chat (there is a live chat room which is active at night more than days, and fri/sat/sun nights most of all if you're interested. I go there a lot) I love meeting new people and sharing our experiences. One other suggestion - get a notebook of some kind and write down any questions for your docs. During your visit(s), make sure to ask those questions, and take notes on any answers they give, or anything else they talk about. If they go too fast, tell them to slow down - this is your life we're talking about. My onc got to the point where even during a normal visit, if I didn't have the book out, she'd say "Do you want to get out your book first?"

Momine, loved the gram story

HNS, thanks for the lactose free hot choc...you are a true friend!

JLynn, another note about the hair loss thing with chemo - just in case it happens we don't want you to be shocked - you may well lose the hair inside your nose, which we all found out is what keeps sniffles from running down our face! Get some extra tissues to carry around with you

Dianarose

Eli- your hair is beautiful. I can't wait until I can tie mine back or do something with it. It is growing back at all kinds of weirds textures and lenghts, but it's hair and it is getting thicker. I have plenty of grey hairs. I've earned them all.

I am almost 2 months pfc and I now have nose sores. I had a few mouth sores while on chemo but this is a pain in the ass. They really hurt. My nose ran the whole time on chemo and now that it has stopped I have the sores. Has anyone else ever had this. Is it a side effect from a side effect. Leave it to me.

Luvmygoats- that bread pudding sounds great. I get bored making the same things so I will have to try that combo. I made a Choc-moca pudding cake the other day. Bad move. I ate just about the whole thing with a ton of french vanilla ice cream. So much for the 3 pounds I lost.

barsco1963

Dianarose - I haven't had a good keylime pie in a long while. Jlynn the cheetos seem to be the favorite food of the middies. Mar - definitely coffee with cinnamon buns and I may even take a bit of that kahlua that hns is bringing.

Eli - I must chime in that your locKs are luxurious. I had my locks donated one year also. Used to have long hair and am trying to grow it long again so that perhaps I can do another also

Jlynn - I was the opposite in the beginning being terrified of chemo. It was to be the tx before liver mets were found. The saying "Be careful what you wish for" runs through my mind a lot. Once I was dx stage IV the chemo was out and tamo was in. Funny how although our tx are different, we are both comfortable with the decision

Scans are the regular 3 month CT to take a peek at those pesky liver mets to make sure they are behaving. I am not sure if we have PET in Canada. Have never had one. Good thing - I don't like hangovers much. One reason I don't drink.

elimar86861

D-rose, I have a question for you.  Since you did the one same chemo I did (fluorouracil,) did you notice getting random skin hives?  I got them during and for about a month after chemo, mostly popping up on my legs but a few on torso, arms or neck.  Looked a little spotty when I wore shorts on the cruise, but the sun and salt water seemed to do them good and I haven't had any new ones this week.

elimar86861

We pretty much love all of the 'verboten' snacks foods here, but for all you Newbies, I will take a walk down memory lane and explain those Cheetos.  Way back (in 2009) when it was my rads time, there was a study that came out that said drinking 3-4 oz. of red wine daily during rads treatment would have benefits to prevent skin breakdown.  Well, I don't nornally drink wine, but I got a bottle or two for the "medicinal purposes" and being low-brow like I am, I paired my wine with some crunchy Cheetos.  It was then revealed that just about everyone on the thread at that time also loved the Cheetos (and what's not to love?) so they became the official snack of the thread.  Ta-da!  Elementary, my dear Middies!

                                               

macatacmv

jlynn, I say fire up that hot tub. I was out in CO a while ago and they have hot tubs at all the hotels usually on the roof. It was so cool to be in a hot tub with the steam rising and the snow falling and then all the laughing and screaming when you run back inside with just your towel. I can't remember where you live, but if I had one I would be in it all the time. 

barsco will be with u for the pp, I can bring strawberries, they were on sale 2 for 1, should I dip them in chocolate?

My eyes are not seeing real clearly so sorry for any typos. 

fun times here coughing attack and hot flash at once. what I won't do for a little fun! 

marlegal

Eli, why is that uh, man? or creature? holding his crotch? lol

Diana, not sure I've heard of hte nose sores before. We all know the drip, but hope the sores are temporary and low maintenance pain wise hon.

Momine

Marle, because you are a dirty girl and make him shy.

I must confess here that I have never had a cheeto. The color scares me.

JoyE1947

You ladies are hilarious!  I was wondering where all the talk about Cheetos originated.  I love them too! 

Barsco - every time I see your Avatar I think of my niece.  You two look so much alike.

barsco1963

Eli - I have a friend that often talks about her pairing of wine with cheetos. Too funny!

macatacmv - You have all the fun! Hope the coughing/hotflashes are temporary for you. And chocolate (like cheetos) is always welcome!

JoyE - they say we all have a twin somewhere. I have never found mine till now - which I still really haven't found her but now know she is out there - lol.  I did find my sisters one day - a woman walked into my place of work and I really had to do a double/triple take as I was sure it WAS my sister, but couldn't process why she would be there. Very weird.

Jlynn0807

Well.  Last night I received a phone call at about 9ish from my brother.  He is 42.  What I have had to deal with physically since birth....he has in his mind, he is "damaged goods", no doubt.  He is perfectly healthy, but weak-minded.  Always feeling sorry for himself.  A self admitted alchoholic, pot smoking, pill popping wreck.

So.  He calls last night...bombed.  It started off ok.  Then he starts.  "I wish I could take the cancer from you....you've had it harder than me....blah blah blah".  I was, no doubt, finally snapping out of my funk til he called.  Then, he kept saying, at least ten times..."What are you going to do with your kids?".  Well, I'm going to get up in the am and drive the 18 year old to work at 8 because his car was junked last week....but other than that, I don't know what the hell you're talking about?.  I told my son, the 18 yo, re this conversation on the way to Ihop (he eats more than he works while there I'm sure).  He said, "Mom, next time he calls, don't answer the phone".  He got angry.  I don't blame him.  I handled his drunken, repeat the same story over and over and over, crap....for about 1.5 hours.  He sounded bad.  Like he was praying to go to sleep and not wake up.  Now, since I am actively fighting for the exact opposite, I find myself annoyed at him.  You're healthy, yet you choose to engage in this self-destructive, self-pitying, self-loathing behavior?  Really?

I think next time, if he calls after say 6pm, I won't answer the phone.  I don't need to have to make HIM feel better that I have cancer.  Forget that.  I told him he needs to go to AA, and quit whining.  I don't understand his problem, I really don't.  Our parents aren't going to make the cover of "Good Parenting 101", no doubt, but that doesn't give him an all-access pass to Pitydome.  Not in my opinion anyway.  We all have our crosses to bear...he doesn't seem to be handling them....never did.  I don't know what to say to him, and I don't mean to sound harsh, but I have cancer....he drinks too much.  I don't know. Save it, and please don't call me bombed ever again!!  I know alchoholics are diseased too, I understand that...but I was just diagnosed Monday, and he's calling me drunk that HE can't handle it?  Really? Mind you, we've been close.....never....because he has chosen to alienate himself from the family.  Someone told him re my dx, and he called out of nowhere.  Yikes!!

I have to go to Kohls today.  My Kohls cash expires (yes, tragically).  I find myself not being able to stay "out" anywhere very long, before I want to run back home and sit on my couch.  It is getting better....I am feeling more optimism as I read more, and stay off the general search engines.  I feel like everyone is looking at me differently, though I look the same.  Weird huh?  But I am going to use that Kohls cash come hell or high water!

So, raising my coffee to all of you, may your day be blessed with love today...and lots of moments where you can forget why you're here reading my rant....just for a while.

Lynn

Lily55

Lynn - totally agree with you, tell your brother that you only want to hear from him AFTER he is in AA and addressing his addictive behaviour and do the tough love on him - he is a parasite at the moment and you have enough to deal with.........I had a friend who has abused his body for years, NEVER been ill yet I think he is a functioning alcoholic, he tells himself he is fine as he can have a day without drinking - I no longer bother with him or go anywhere with him as he always end up getting ridiculously drunk, even at someone´s funeral he was so paralytic he had to be taken home incapable and it was only a neighbour not even a friend - he takes any excuse to drink to excess so I get where youa re coming from - hold firm, I get sooo mad at people who abuse their health and are fine whereas I looked after myself and get bloody cancer

elimar86861

Jlynn, Although it is true that your cancer will undoubtedly affect others, it is not right for anyone to make YOUR cancer about them.  At least not when they are talking to you.  I agree with the tough love plan...tell your brother you love him, but that he is NEVER to call you again when he has been drinking, that you'll hang up on him and then make sure you do.  However, try and be pleasant when he is sober, to reinforce the soberness.  I'm guessing this is a baby brother...well, he needs to grow up. 

D-rose, Now that you mention it, I did have nose sores for about a week.  I didn't lose nose hair, but it became extremely dry in there.  It was the beginning of Winter, so all the dry air.  I bought some saline nasal spray and also used coconut oil or vaseline or aquaphor to keep it less dry.  I was better after a week.

Mar, In that picture of Chester, the Cheetah, I thought he was holding on to his "pimp cane" but I have to say I got a BOS (big ole smile) reading Momine's answer to you.

Momine, Your Sunday morning confession of never having a Cheeto is shocking, but I know you can't help it being out of U.S.  I don't know if they still have these in Greece but, when I was over there years ago, there was a kind of puffed corn snack that looked like a Cheeto, but was hazelnut flavored.  Mmmm.  So, if you have ever had those and loved them, then you will be off the hook and we will know that you are doing the best you can in the land of no Cheetos.  (You do know that Chester is the Cheetos mascot, right?)

Jlynn0807

Crud.  Just typed my face off, and lost it!

Anyway E....yes, he is younger.  42.  I am 46.  Always been tougher than he, though life has undoubtedly handed me more lemons.  He is good looking, healthy, (well, except for being an alchoholic...you know what I mean...he COULD be healthy), yet his glass is always not half empty....flat out bone dry.  I have always thought he needed help, but he doesn't....and you know how that works.  I told my aunt this am re the conversation, and she agreed.  Don't take his calls when he is drunk.  You don't need that right now.

Lily...went out for a brief dinner last night (seems like I can only handle being out of the house for short periods of time lately...I find self panicking....like I want to go back home NOW...did anyone else feel that way, or am I just a fruitloop?).  Anyway, there were several young people outside smoking their faces off, and I wanted to walk over, show 'em the port, and say you want this for lung cancer in 20 years?  I know there are plenty of people who DO NOT smoke and wind up falling victim to lung cancer, but geez.....having been diagnosed with bc really makes you resent health, and those who abuse it! Funny how your perspective changes, huh?

elimar86861

Jlynn, You have the makings of a true cancer vigilante.  I never thought of shoving my port in someones face as a deterent to known cancer causing behavior.  (As unsightly as my port is, it could be quite effective!)  Recently, I was disturbed to find out my younger boy had "tried" smoking for a few months.  He had witnessed his own grandmother die from her L/C and yet he still wanted to give smoking a whirl.  It made me cry that he could be such an idiot.  Thankfully, he came to his senses (before he even made this confession to me.)  It really does amaze me that in this day and age that the youth are still lighting up, with all the knowledge we have about the harm tobacco causes.  That being said, we really can only be responsible for our own choices, no matter how terrible it is to see someone on the path of destruction.

carollynn79

Welcome to all teh newcomers, so sorry that you had to find us but we are a good group and will help where needed either attitude, freinship or treatment concerns. 

Welcome back El,hope you had a great time, we really enjoyed out trip to Kauai.   I am having picture posting issues so here is a link.  We did a lot of walking, and just enjoyed being by the ocean.  By our standards the weather was fine, but by Kauai standards it was cooler than usual and very windy.  The winds made the rip tides quite dangereous so did not get as much snorkling in as I wanted but had fun. Tried my hand at propelling down a waterfall, not a good idea, made me sore for a few days but learned more about myself and I did Accomplish it! 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/carollynn79/sets/72157632861695026/  link to some of my pictures

Jlynn0807

El...

My grandmother died from emphysema (sp, IDK).  She was young, 66.  She smoked Vantage, I remember. I don't even know if they still make 'em anymore.  She died tough.  It's not an easy way to go, no doubt.   You don't close your eyes and drift peaceably "somewhere else".  You gasp for your every breath, and it's not pretty.  I will never forget it.  I don't think my brother smokes cigs, but I do know he's lighting up on the other.  Either way, I did think of calling him to make sure he's ok, but I can't.  I told my aunt maybe she wants to.  I, with the help of my own inner strength, my husband, my doggies, you and the others on this thread, am trying my damndest to snap out of it.  I don't need his crap right now. 

What I do need is a shower.  Also, another question, I went to biopsy (endo) a week ago.  The doctor overheard me complaining that the port area was still sore to a nurse.  It was put in like....two weeks ago?  I think I blocked it out completely on purpose so I'm not sure....maybe 3 weeks, but that's the max!!  Anyway, the area is sore.  Is that normal?  I don't like touching it because it gives me the willies. He told me "It shouldn't be sore anymore".  Uh yes it is.  Do you have one to compare notes with me?  Also, going to use it for the first time next week.  I have the Emla.  Does it work?  I didn't have any plastic like Saran Wrap when I went for the endo (I didn't know they wouldn't use the port....said too much contamination risk), so I cut a plastic Target bag and stuck it under my bra strap.  What do I care?  Not looking to impress ANYone at this point.  I am sure I looked quite the idiot...but the area was numb so I could care less.  So....does it numb enough to keep the needle they use from hurting like heck? Is there anything I should do or know before I go, in terms of the port?  I have been reading on the chemo threads, def some good points....but posting my rhetoric here only....lucky ducks ;}

I've gotta get off the couch.  My husband is the king of stupid movies. Is now watching a movie called Joe Dirt.  Totally totally ridiculous.  Never heard of it...and I think I'm learning fast why.  I am not in the mood for one of his totally mindless movies.....so a hot shower and a trip out the door.  Also, need a coffee.  Gotta havva Wawa!!  My fav.  Onc told me to enjoy now because come Friday, the smell of it wil make you sick! 

P.S.  If my husband and son weren't with me last night, I guarantee 100% I would have done what I was thinking.....but for fear of embarrassing them to death, I chose not to.  I am very outgoing and very friendly and not too shy at all, so it woulda been no big deal to me.  Besides, I was treated to a blast of nasty secondhand smoke as I came out, so....courtesy warrants smoking MUCH further from the entrance/exit....and I think the law does too now!!

To the showers!  I am getting hair cut short on Tuesday, and being treated (by the ACS) to a wig.  Oh, happy day!!  Actually, sick of messing with my hair anyway, so a hair cut may be in order, and I don't wanna deal with watching it fall off in huge clumps anyway. I don't have the courage to shave my head ladies...  I'll cross that bridge when I get there.