MIDDLE-AGED WOMEN 40-60ish

Tpralph

dychess what about option for total hysterectomy?

NativeMainer

Duchessoftea--I'm guessing the bc was ER+/PR+ if tamoxifen is being recommended.The estrogen blocking drugs are as effective, if not more effective than chemotherapy by themselves, and go throughout the system.Over the 5 years of hormonal therapy it is thought that the cancer cells actually die off. Yes, hormonal therapy (Tamoxifen and the AI's) can be difficult, and not every woman can get all the way through. BUT, hormonal therapy is less toxic than chemotherapy, and much less dangerous. If you could get through chemo I'm sure you could get through hormonal therapy. It is also possible to start hormone therapy and stop it if you really can't manage the side effects.

Eph3_12

Happy Memorial Day weekend! Hope you all are able to enjoy! I get to work overtime!!!!!! This is how we should all be on holidays...the dad's comment cracked me up!

Tpralph

eph. Carb intoxication. Haha. Nice pic

MinusTwo

Eph - thanks for bringing back the long time Cheetos mania. I'm sure Eli will love it.

elimar86861

Uh-oh, BCO must be "upgrading" again. The icon pics at top are ginormous. The font I am writing this post in looks funny, at least in the edit box. The editing toolbar is missing. Well, I hope this quirk gets fixed pronto.
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duchessoftea, welcome! O.K. let's sort through it all. So, you know the chemo first was to immediately attack any cancer cells that may have gone beyond the lymph node, and they wanted to get to that quick because Grade 3 signifies aggressiveness and usually more rapid growth. Chances are pretty good that the chemo killed off those rapidly dividing cells. But the thing is that usually ER+/PR+ cells are slower to divide, and they don't want to take chances that something slow and sinister could be happening in you, so you need something for the long haul, and that is where Tamoxifen comes in.
First, let me mention that Tamoxifen is being recommended for extended use up to 10 years now, or a combination of Tamox. to start with, and switch to an AI, if natural menopause occurs along that timeline. While there are drugs for ovarian suppression and oophorectomy (ovaries out) that is usually done so that a pre-menopausal woman can use an AI. But if the plan is for Tamox. and you can tolerate that, then no need for those procedures. I am not sure why Tpraplh mentioned hysterectomy, but do you know that even with all the ladyparts removed your body still finds a way to make some estrogen? Yeah, some of the fat cells on our bodies betray us by whipping up the stuff. Therefore, you probably should be on something that blocks estrogen wherever it is coming from. But only if you so choose. We all have the power to say no to whatever treatments we don't want. Tamox. is the standard of care, and most of us here just didn't want to buck tradition. I'm saying we were too scared NOT to do the anti-hormonal therapy. It is true that some have side effects that really do affect the QOL, but I think in the silent majority the side effects are merely annoying yet tolerable. Remember, you can give Tamox. a try and see how YOU feel taking it before making up your mind to how long you will stay on it
I hope I have shed some light on the WHY do Tamox. question. You wrote "is it just to prolong life?" That alone seems to be a great reason for anyone not quite ready to check out yet, BUT who wants a recurrence even if it is not life-threatening?
I will also recommend to you that you ask your doctor for something called Adjuvant Online (or maybe there is a newer program by now?) It is a risk assessment tool and can tell you percentage of risk you face for the cancer returning with and without various therapies. So, you could see what level of benefit you would get from taking Tamoxifen.
Let us know, and Good Luck!

Eph, thanks for the holiday smile!!!!!!!

elimar86861

I guess I will have to "pardon the BCO progress." It made one huge paragraph out of the several neat ones I typed. :-(

(And the toolbar emojis are missing so I can't even insert a proper frowny face!!!!)

Momine

I confess that I am mildly shocked that someone would give a small child cheetos.

elimar86861

Mo, If you are only MILDly shocked, then we will just have to try harder.

Momine

I actually fired a sitter because she gave my kid cheetos

Eph3_12

Momine....OKAY, THAT is hilarious! But I get protecting the kiddos from chemicals! But Cheetos?!?!?!? They're just orange air (unless you do crunchy, which is the best one, then it's orange smog air!)

Lita57

Duchess, Eli made some excellent points.

No one can force you to take a pill you don't want to take. You are well within your rights to conduct your own due diligence before signing up for Tamoxifen. I've known women who had minimal problems to no problems at all on it. Nevertheless, the se's from these pills are real and debilitating for some...but so is the reality that cancer CAN and DOES return for thousands of women, and it can take away our lives or pave the way for some other opportunistic ailment to take us out.

There are women out there who have chosen NOT to take the traditional western standard of care approach, and rely only on diet and herbal supplements. That's their choice. We live in a free country, and it's not for me or anyone else to pass judgment. I can certainly see their point: They question the traditional "slash, poison, burn" approach.

I was dx'd with Stage 4 from the get go, so I have no other choice but to follow the western approach. "Poisoning and burning" with chemo pills and radiation has kept me alive with a fairly decent QOL. My MO was very honest with me. She said, "No matter what we do, Stage 4 will eventually kill you [unless I die in a car crash first]. You have to tell us how much you think you can deal with treatment-wise, and when you tell us that you've had enough and it's finally time to stop fighting, we will respect that and assign you to hospice."

Your situation is completely different from mine, and the decision has to be yours. It needs to be something you can confidently accept, work with, and be comfortable with.

Take your time, weigh your options, and take it one day at a time. You have options.

I wish you health, joy and peace,

Lita

MinusTwo

The thing about the Cheetos - if you give them to you kids & get them started, there's less for you!!! I vote for hiding them on top of the fridge.

elimar86861

Oh great sage, Minus Two, truer words were never spoken.

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Can anyone else still insert pictures? I can't because my whole toolbar has vanished.

Lita57

Eli, have you tried both lap top and smart phone/tablet? Something like that happened to me a while back, but I was able to do it from my lap top.

If all else fails, I'd contact the mods.

Momine

Eph3, my kid didn't have chips, soda etc. I was brought up the same way, so it seemed normal to me. Now, it was not only the cheetos that led to the firing, but it was definitely a part.

elimar86861

First things first, since the tooldbar is back now. (Yes, PMed the Mods, but I don't know if they took any action to restore the toolbar or if it was just a weird coincidence.) I have just been chomping away, waiting to post this pictorial reply for days now, so here it is...

No one is born evil...must be those Cheetos. That MY story anyway.

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Now about that other substance I regularly consume, TEA, ...and this one falls into the "Supposed To Be Good For You? Dept."

Study Finds Epigenetic Changes in Women Consuming Tea

Upshot is that no one knows quite what all this means yet, but whatever it is, it has had decades to have been working on me. The jury is out on a lot of stuff, this is just another one, but should findings ever come back that tea is a proven risk reducer for BC and CRC, well, I will just have to sit back and have a good laugh at the irony of that.

Meanwhile, continuing to drink tea until further notice.

Lita57

WTF! Now TEA????

What about all the Asian women in China and Japan? Not to mention India, where they drink Darjeeling? They supposedly have lower rates of cancer (I know, I know, they also eat lots of REAL soy, not powder), but they drink tea every day! (So do Afgan women and other Middle Eastern women.)

As for me, I switch it up. Some days it's green, some days it's black, some days rooibos or honeybush (technically, not tea, but "tisane"), some days herbal passion flower, etc. And I'm NOT going to stop. Coffee upsets my stomach, and I've had to give up wine while on continual, Stage 4 treatment; and we've ALL been told NOT to drink sodas, or at least limit them. So what's left? Water? BORING! Juices? TOO MUCH SUGAR. So tea is my "go to" beverage. Either iced or hot...that's pretty much all I drink WITHOUT any sugar, and maybe a little squeeze of lemon or a sprig of mint.

Can't get any healthier than that.

I also think about this stuff recently in the news saying "Even one alcoholic drink per day raises the risk for BC in women." I call BS on that one, too. Look at how many women are getting BC in their 20s and 30s....they haven't been ALIVE LONG ENOUGH to consume that much alcohol, unless they're binge drinkers. And I know a lot of women who NEVER drank and STILL have BC! Are all the French women, Italian women and Spanish women in Europe dropping like flies from BC considering all the wine they drink in those countries? NO, they're not.

Sorry this turned into a rant, but oh well. What else is new?

Dianarose

I don't like tea and barely consumed any alcohol in my 56 years. Was first diagnosed at 43. If they were to say stress caused cancer that would be more believable

ndgrrl

Hi, They are now saying they believe stress contributes to cancer. or my new MO has stated it. She told me I needed to reduce stress for prevention. To Meditate, to listen to music and relax. She is more into natural healing. I was rather shocked.

Lita57

I TOTALLY AGREE ABOUT STRESS. I worked in construction for over 25 years - extremely stressful.

I think the reason I'm doing as well as I am now is because I QUIT as soon as I was dx'd.

I feel for women who still have to work to keep their insurance after they've been dx'd at any stage. Just battling cancer is stressful enuf without having to deal with temperamental bosses and nasty coworkers.

NativeMainer

El--LOL!Interesting study. Not sure what it means, if anything. Going to continue my coffee and tea drinking anyway. As well as my evening glass of wine!

Lita--well said!

Diana--another example of how these studies really can't prove causation.

Ndgrrl--great, the stress of having been diagnosed with bc, the stress associated with treatment are setting us up for recurrence or a second cancer.If stress were truly causative there would be a much higher incidence of recurrence. Not that stress reduction is bad, but I'm not buying this one either.

klt5817

Ladies,  great discussion about what causes BC!  I say it's a crap shoot.  Yes, there are things to do to reduce our risk but that should not but a strain on our life or reduce QOL.  In the end, just being a women is a HUGH risk.  I was recently dx at 51 & my 23 yrs old daughter told me I'm one of the healthiest and most organized person she knows.  Most of us are quite healthy when we were dx. 

Lita, I love your quote " I've been dragged into an "arranged" marriage that I vociferously did not agree to...but divorce is completely off the table now that I'm married to Mr. Cancer. It's literally until death do us part."  Can I use it for my Holiday Greeting card, lol?

elimar86861

Lita57, No, no, it's not putting tea on the bad list...just that the bio substances in tea are creating change at the genetic level, and in the genes that are associated with estrogen and with cancer. It MAY be that the influence is a positive one. They don't have it figured out yet. I'm saying if tea does turn out to have a positive influence, I would be one of the last people you could prove that by.

Now, as for stress actually causing cancer...personally, I do think there is something to that. Extremely difficult to prove that scientifically however. The timing on both my BC and my CRC can really date back to the time frame of when I lost a parent, so it does make me wonder about that kind of stress having an effect.

Stress might even be a greater factor as we age. Think about it. Are you as good at dealing with stress now as when you were a 30-something? I know I am worse at it now. I'm sure there are many biological factors as to why that is, but IF stress is even one of the causes for any of our physical ills, I feel I am less likely to be able to avoid the effects of it now. That is just my unproven hunch/gut feeling about it.

Regardless, it never hurts to try and diminish the stress.

runor

I am 53, diagnosed March 2017, had lumpectomy and still waiting for treatments to begin.

Just this morning I asked Hub what he thinks of this, of me having breast cancer. He paused for a moment and said he never, ever, for one second, considered a life in which he might grow old without me. So now that this has happened he spends his energy NOT thinking about it. He is trying as hard as he can to pretend this isn't happening.

When first diagnosed it was like I got hit in the head and was a little senseless, dazed. Nothing felt real, this isn't real. The fog will clear and life will be normal and I will not be trying to decide to lose my whole boob or just part of my boob. I will not be going to the hospital to have wire guides jabbed in me. I will not be sitting, braless and robed, with a room full of other solemn looking women as we all wait our turn in the mammo machine, silent and all having similar thoughts. I keep waiting for this weighted curtain that fell on my life to lift. It isn't.

I am struggling with living. I realize that makes no sense. I am struggling with starting anything or planning anything because I am afraid that I will pop off part way through and leave a mess for someone else to clean up.

I am fortunate to not work outside the home so I have no job to worry about missing. But I do suddenly feel the drudgery of being a housewife (and gardener and farmer and landscaper and you all know what I mean!) has to end. I am torn between feeling lucky that I have 'nothing else to do' and a massive life failure because I have 'nothing else to do'. AGH! The existential angst is crushing me!

Adult daughter rolls her eyes and tells me not to walk around like I'm dying. Not sure what that means. I do everything I always did, even though I feel like laying down in the road and not moving. I push. I perform. And the TRUTH is that I may yet grow old with Hub. Or I might indeed by dying. It could go either way!

It would seem that finding out I have cancer has made me extraordinarily stupid because I don't know what to do, what to think, how to feel ..... I feel like a blind person groping my way through unfamiliar and dangerous territory.

I have read so much on this site before ever becoming a member. I now feel going into chemo I will have a basic knowledge of what I'm facing and why. But the bigger why, why did this happen? Good question, eh?

elimar86861

runor, welcome! I can relate to your existential crisis, and most of what you wrote in your post. When I first heard my Dx, I swear the air got sucked out of the room and I lost my hearing for about three sentences due to the vacuum. In my mind existed a future where I outlived my husband (based purely on statistics) but the BC made me rethink that. Because I was early stage and had a good prognosis, my whole Dx was only a small blip on the radar in the male-populated world of my home. That was some years ago, so let me fast forward to now and tell you that in reality BC took up about a year of my life-- which I resented wholeheartedly--during which time I had a high school senior and tried real hard not to miss that milestone year. My message to you is YOU WILL DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO. We all do. We all did. It sounds like a cliche, but it is no less true. I did experience one big difference from what you mentioned...that is after I went through what I did, learning all the way, I felt pretty SMART. I felt like I had gotten a freakin' degree in BC, my own BC anyway. (Later, I went on to an "advanced degree" with another different kind of cancer. Amazingly, I think I did as well with that because of all the BC groundwork I had done.) My body was kind of a traitor to me, growing those nasty cells; but I gained a lot of new trust in my brain and my decision making ability.

You are still reeling from your Dx being so new. That is totally normal, btw. Dealing with BC is not only a physical challenge, but I think it is mental one also, possibly to a greater degree. Having an online community like this one can be a gigantic help in getting through it emotionally. For me, just the thought that there were so many women here going thru' the same as me and willing to share & help was really awesome. I hope you will find that fact comforting also. Let us know if we can help with info. or support (and here we throw the humor in for free.)

Lita57

klt5817, go ahead and us my quote...just change the words around a bit to personalize it and make it your own.

Yes, elimar, don't we ALL feel like our bodies have "betrayed" us? I remember saying that to my DH. My body has committed TREASON!

Where's the firing squad?

Oh....I forgot....I'm Stage IV right from the gate. So my body will execute itself.

elimar86861

Lita57, We are all hoping for call from the Governor (Mr. CURE!) to stay the many executions. And forgive my dark humor that asks if the BC is the firing squad, is the treatment the lethal injection?

Dianarose

Cancer has been a crazy learning experience. Some people that you loved and cared for the most become strangers and some strangers seem to care the most. You not only become a prisoner of your body but of your mind as well. Even when surrounded by loved ones you still feel alone. It is definitely a burden. All we can do is try our best to enjoy the moments we feel well enough to do so and of course self medicate when needed.

Lita57

Not sure, Elimar. That's kind of an existential question.

My body's cells created the cancer...that's the treason.

Firing squad is the chemo, but we all know it doesn't work in the long run for St 4 as cancer mutates with time.

So lethal injection may be the only way to go 😄.