The Brand New Respectful Presidential Campaign Thread

Amen, Rosemary.

I suppose I'm naive, not cynical.  I do not believe we went into Iraq for their oil. 

Rosemary, you've already named the consquences of rising oil prices...the industries - trucking, airlines, etc.  What's going to happen this winter when people have to heat their homes? 

People are really getting angry about this.  I do blame our government for our predicament.  How many years have they had to come up with other fuels.  Didn't Pelosi promise to bring down gas prices?  What's the dems done for any of us?  And some of the repubs are just as bad!  I'm one of those angry ones.

Yeah, right.  We went into Iraq for the oil. 

 Shirley

about the price of oil...recently there was an analysis (I'll try to find it) that valued the true price of crude at $70/barrel when you factor production, demand and geo political unrest and conservation...the rest is speculation, i.e. manipulation of the market to drive up the price.  This has been the game of the oil cartel forever.  It's been said too that the speculation is out of control.  The pricing is psychological as much as supply and demand.  There doesn't exist anywhere a true free market void of regulation.  And...oil is tied to the dollar.  So when the dollar gets strong, oil gets weaker.  There is no easy fix.  

"Why do you think the car companies are pushing their SUVs and large trucks with 0% financing and gas at $2.99 a gallon for 3 years or 100k miles? Because they don't want to even try to think green or change their ways. Because they are still producing these large SUVs and large trucks because that's what the American public wants and they want it now! "

I strongly disagree with you Grace on your condemnation

of the American public.  Most of us are trying to muddle through as best we can.  As to credit card debt many of us are carrying that unexpected

Dental expense  that can easily run 5000. or mail order prescription services on those cards that want ninety day supplies to be paid for at one time and want your credit card for hundreds if not thousands in copays; and, in some cases the card is even used for emergency utilities.  And at twenty one percent interest they will never be paid down.----Not everything is as it appears.

I think twice about taking my Toyota Corolla out and combine as many errands as I can.

I don't think I'm much different than most American's albeit poorer.

My air conditioner has been on all of five days this year with the recent addition of an attic fan. I live like a mole with energy efficient lights.

Maybe there are rich folks out there that don't have to conserve but then I thought they were the one's who were riding around in the Prius's

As to the Car companies---McCain told the truth in Michigan---Those jobs aren't coming back and new technology, enterprise and retraining will have to take it's place.

I don't remember when I last saw my neighbor's Hummer on the road.

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Tuesday, June 3, 2008



GM closing 4 truck and SUV plants in North America

Tue Jun 3, 12:34 PM ET

General Motors is closing four truck and SUV plants in the U.S., Canada and Mexico, affecting 10,000 workers, as surging fuel prices hasten a dramatic shift to smaller vehicles.

CEO Rick Wagoner said Tuesday before the automaker's annual meeting in Delaware the plants to be idled are in Oshawa, Ontario; Moraine, Ohio; Janesville, Wis.; and Toluca, Mexico. He also said the iconic Hummer brand will be reviewed and potentially sold or revamped.

Wagoner said the GM board has approved production of a new small Chevrolet car at a plant in Lordstown, Ohio, in mid-2010 and production of the Chevrolet Volt electric vehicle in Detroit.

Wagoner announced the moves in response to slumping sales of pickups and SUVs brought on by high oil prices. He said a market shift to smaller vehicles is permanent.

GM shares rose 43 cents, or 2.5 percent, to $17.87 in midday trading.

The cuts will affect 10,000 hourly and salaried workers. Many will be able to take openings created when 19,000 more U.S. hourly workers leave later this year through early retirement and buyout offers.

Wagoner said the company has no plans to allocate products to the four plants in the future.

"We really would not foresee the likely prospect of new products in the plants that we're announcing today that we'll cease production in," he told a Moraine, Ohio, city official who asked a question in a telephone conference call.

More cuts will be announced later. Wagoner said GM will consolidate engine, transmission and other parts operations to go with the assembly plant actions.

The actions add to a string of plant closures by the Big Three in the last several years. GM, Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC have announced the shutdown of 35 plants since 2005, according to Sean McAlinden, chief economist with the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor. Along with 35 additional closures at GM and Ford's chief suppliers, Delphi Corp. and Automotive Components Holdings LLC, he said the total hourly and salaried jobs eliminated comes to 149,000.

In that same time period, foreign automakers have built or announced plans to build five U.S. assembly plants, he said. In 2007, foreign auto companies employed 113,000 people in the U.S., a number McAlinden projects will rise to 152,000 by 2011.

The Oshawa truck plant, which builds the Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra pickups, likely will be shuttered next year. The Moraine plant near Dayton, will stop making Chevy TrailBlazer and other mid-size SUVs in 2010 "or sooner if demand dictates," Wagoner said. In Janesville, the plant that builds medium-duty trucks and big SUVs like the Chevrolet Tahoe, will cease production starting at the end of 2009, finishing in 2010 or sooner if demand stays weak. In Toluca, production of medium-duty trucks will end by the end of 2008, Wagoner said.

The moves will save the company $1 billion per year starting in 2010. Combined with previous efforts, GM by 2011 will have cut costs by $15 billion a year over in 2005, Wagoner said.

Canadian Auto Workers President Buzz Hargrove said GM's decision to close its Oshawa truck plant betrays the labor agreement reached two weeks ago. He said the union will consider all options, including a strike.

GM committed to keep the plant of 2,600 people open throughout the three-year agreement, Hargrove said.

Wagoner said General Motors Corp.'s board approved the production schedule of the Chevrolet Volt, and the company plans to bring the plug-in electric car to showrooms by the end of 2010.

Fully charged, the Volt could drive about 40 miles without using any gasoline, and a small conventional engine would recharge the vehicle, extending its range and allowing it to get the equivalent of 150 miles per gallon. GM plans to sell about 100,000 Volts a year by 2012.

Wagoner said the change in the U.S. market to smaller vehicles likely is permanent. "We at GM don't think this is a spike or a temporary shift," Wagoner said.

On the Hummer, Wagoner said GM is "undertaking a strategic review of the Hummer brand, to determine its fit with GM's evolving product portfolio" in light of changing market conditions.

"At this point, we are considering all options for the Hummer brand... everything from a complete revamp of the product lineup to partial or complete sale of the brand," he said.

Detroit's automakers have been making the shift to more fuel-efficient vehicles, but not at the pace that matches consumers' drive to hybrids and high mileage models made overseas. Gas prices have accelerated the retreat from trucks and sport utility vehicles, leaving the Big Three at the most critical crossroads in 30 years.

The U.S. market is difficult for every automaker, with consumer confidence weak and 2008 sales expected to be the lowest in more than a decade. But it is most difficult for the Detroit Three, who have relied more heavily on sales of trucks and SUVs than their foreign counterparts. Trucks make up 70 percent of Chrysler LLC's U.S. sales, for example, compared to 41 percent at Toyota Motor Corp.

GM President and Chief Operating Officer Fritz Henderson said the new small car to be built in Lordstown would get 9 miles per gallon better fuel economy than the company's current small cars, the Chevrolet Cobalt and Pontiac G5 when equipped with a manual transmission. The most efficient Cobalt now gets 36 miles per gallon on the highway, although Henderson would not give a total mileage number.

It would be powered by a 1- to 1.4-liter four-cylinder gasoline engine that could be turbocharged for additional power, GM said. The new engine would be built in Flint.

Henderson said the plant closure measures would reduce the company's capacity to produce pickups and large SUVs by 700,000 per year, about 35 percent.

He also said GM is planning for gasoline prices to stay around $4 per gallon for the foreseeable future, "with a bias upwards."

When asked if GM should have moved more quickly to smaller vehicles, Henderson said he doesn't spend time looking in the rearview mirror.

"There's not much I can do about what I didn't do in the past," he said.

Pete Hastings, senior analyst with Memphis, Tenn.-based Morgan Keegan & Co., said GM's moves are painful yet prudent.

"It's a permanent shift, and they're right to recognize it," he said. "But is it enough? It's a bit early to tell. ... That's the hard part of gauging where we are in the economy — and how deep or strong the shift in demand is for more fuel-efficient vehicles."

Analyst Kevin Tynan of New York-based Argus Research Corp. said the Detroit Three automakers have been "caught with the market running away from them." While he recognizes GM's plight and efforts to overcome it, he still questions the aggressive push to market with the Volt, which is demanding heavy investment at a time when money is tight.

"It's very bad timing, very late in the game to be making big bets," he said. "At the same time, you don't have a choice."

The announcement is an economic blow to Janesville, which long has been entwined with automaking. The sprawling GM plant has survived the Depression, a world war and GM's major layoffs in the 1980s, but it will not escape the latest round of corporate belt-tightening.

"There were some tears and a lot of people were kind of ticked off, but it's part of the business," said Scott Lambert, 39, who has worked at the plant for 13 years.

He said he was headed to buy an atlas to figure where other GM plants were that might be hiring.

The plant, GM's oldest, opened in 1919 and long was the largest employer in Janesville, a city of 60,000 about 100 miles northwest of Chicago. But cutbacks have shrunk the work force to about 2,600, so it's no longer the city's biggest employer.

Detroit-based GM also has just emerged from a spate of labor problems, with two local union strikes at key factories and a nearly three-month strike at key parts maker American Axle and Manufacturing Holdings Inc.

GM said in a recent regulatory filing the strikes will cost it a total of $2 billion before taxes in the second quarter.

___

AP Business Writers Emily Fredrix in Janesville, Wis., and Jeff Karoub in Detroit and AP Auto Writer Dee-Ann Durbin in Detroit and Associated Press Writer Rob Gillies in Toronto contributed to this report.
   

GM CEO Rick Wagoner at the start of the 
LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- Jorge Fernandez strolls across the used-car parking lot littered with dozens upon dozens of sport utility vehicles the size of small tugboats.
art.suv.saleslot.gi.jpg

SUVs like these are having a tough time selling with gas prices at all

With gas at $4 a gallon, many have sat there since last summer.

"The cars are literally just sitting, and it doesn't matter how much you sell them for," Fernandez says of the SUVs and trucks nobody wants anymore.

"It's amazing. I've never seen it this bad -- ever."

Fernandez, a wholesale auto dealer who has been in the business for more than 20 years, says SUV owners are hit especially hard. The really large ones with V-8 engines that can get as little as 12 miles per gallon in the city -- like the Cadillac Escalade, Ford Expedition and Chevy Suburban -- are dropping in value by the thousands. Video Watch the sinking value of guzzlers »

The No. 1 reason for the sales slump is soaring gas prices, says Peter Brown, the executive director of Automotive News, the trade newspaper for the North American car industry.

For the first four months of this year, truck and SUV sales are down a collective 24.8 percent. SUV sales plummeted 32.8 percent while pickups dipped 19.9 percent, he says.

"If gas prices stay where they are at or continue to rise, the body-on frame SUV is an endangered species and the pickup truck as a personal car is an endangered species," Brown says.

How do owners react when they're told their once-$40,000-plus vehicles are now worth less than half that?

"When they find out what you think their truck is worth, they think you're trying to rip them off or something," says Fernandez. "Small cars are gone within a week; SUVs are sitting here since last summer."

David Lavi, the owner of a Toyota Tacoma pickup, is feeling that pinch. He put his truck on the market several weeks ago in hopes of downsizing. He bought it brand new in 2006 when gas prices were much lower.

"Once I do sell it, I'm going to get a smaller car -- maybe a Nissan Maxima or something smaller," he says.


He's hoping to get $23,000 for the fully loaded truck, which is higher than the estimated Kelley Blue Book value of $15,000 to $19,000 depending on how many amenities it has.

"No one has offered what I want," he says.

Automakers have noticed this trend to downsize.

Ford announced Thursday it was shifting production away from its longtime hallmark of pickups and SUVs in favor of smaller cars.

In making the decision, Ford said it believes gas prices will remain in the range of $3.75 to $4.25 a gallon through the end of 2009.

"We saw a real change in the industry demand in pickups and SUVs in the first two weeks of May," Ford chief executive Alan Mulally said Thursday. "It seems to us we reached a tipping point."

Brown of Automotive News said he wouldn't be surprised if General Motors and other automakers follow suit.

According to AAA, gas prices reached another all-time high Friday, with the national average price for a gallon of regular unleaded gasoline at $3.87. Seven states are now over $4 a gallon, AAA says. How much do you need to work to pay for your gas? »

Stories of owners ditching larger vehicles for smaller ones have started to become widespread. Owners say they're tired of spending as much as 80 to 100 bucks to fill up their tanks.

Some CNN.com users recently shared their stories of buying used Geo Metros -- the oft-maligned, snail-sized car from the 1990s that gets gas mileage similar to a hybrid of today for a fraction of the sticker price.

"I used to be a car snob, and I used to be too vain to drive anything that doesn't shine," said Marci Solomon, an electrician who has a 100-mile commute to and from work. "But now it's about, do I want to eat, or do I want to make it to work? I want to do both."

But some auto experts caution owners against trading in their SUVs and trucks to save money at the pump because it may not be the wisest financial decision.

Owners might owe $20,000 or more when the vehicle is now worth $12,000. It's similar to an upside-down mortgage, and it may not make sense to try a trade-in.

"What they might be doing is spending thousands of dollars to save hundreds," says Jack Nerad, the executive director of Kelley Blue Book's kbb.com.

"Because if you make a trade, you're most often going to spend more to make that move than you would just sucking it up and paying the extra gasoline prices."

Back at the Los Angeles lot, Fernandez says he thinks the trend away from SUVs and pickups is here to stay.

"Just when you think that it's going to change any day now, it doesn't. It just continuously gets worse," he said.

Susie--The gentleman who said he doesn't look in the rearview mirror should be shot, particularly if you consider his metaphor.  Aren't we all instructed at our first driving lesson to check the rearview mirror?  Stupid man, in a stupid industry.

The U.S. automobile industry is only getting its own back, and yes, McCain was correct, which is why he lost Michigan. The current situation is not something that just happened; we've gone through this before and the moment things improved, even slightly, everyone went back to the old ways. Europe and Japan, and other countries, have been making fuel efficient cars for decades. In Italy (Blundin can confirm this), residential electric usage is restricted.  If you want more power, you pay a premium for it.  It really doesn't take long to adjust to not running all your appliances together--a few power outages did it for me. 

Michigan refused to adjust, going for bigger is better. If you had asked me ten years ago, or even twenty, I would have predicted our current problem. How is I knew, but the people who get paid millions to manage their industries, didn't?  Of course, they knew; they just didn't care. They opted for the quick money. If the truth be told, we all knew.

Rosemary--properly installed, solar panels work in cold climates, even in climates like Maine.  The cost of installing solar panels could have been paid with the cost difference between an SUV and a small, fuel efficient car.  Hard to show off solar panels in the way one shows off a new SUV though.  I have absolutely no problem with wind machines--we had lots of them in Assisi, on the top of Mount Subasio, and they looked fine and were very cost effective.  Nor do I have a problem with nuclear reactors, assuming they're built and managed safely, as they are in France.  We have doublepane windows, and if our car isn't green, it sure gets better mileage than any comparable American car. 

I was a bit worried that we might take a big hit when selling our car (a Honda Civic, getting  32 miles per gallon), as we're planning to sell it and our house and return to New York where we can walk everywhere and where we don't need to pay $1000 a month for heating oil.  When we moved to Maine, just about everyone told us to get an SUV or a pickup (when in Rome), and now it appears we might even make a profit when we sell. The only cars we see for sale up here these days are pickups and SUV's.  Cars like ours are selling at a premium. 

The point is that we're no more intelligent or all knowing than anyone else in this country.  When people buy a house they can't afford, they know they can't afford it.  When people buy SUVs instead of fuel efficient cars, they know they have other more sensible options. It's sheer showing off and I have absolutely no sympathy for showoffs. The planet is not for anyone's sole and exclusive use.      

Grace and Anne, I WILL NOT turn off my AC.  My dh wouldn't be able to stand it.  I wouldn't be able to stand it.  Call us spoiled.  We are, and I admit it.  I grew up without AC at home and in school.  We were used to it, but miserable.  AC was a luxury.  Now, in my view, it's a necessity.  People DO die from not having air and heat.  I'm not saying I would die, but I'm not going to be miserable unless it is mandated.  Or an "Act of God" should come along like in the past (hurricane) and knock out our electricity.  However, you'll probably be OUTRAGED that we have a small generator that can run our freezer and before we had county water we could run the pump on and off and flush our toilets.

And, I'm not walking.  It's waaaaayyyy to far to walk to a store.  I live outside of the city limits.  No buses. 

My sil told me that in the UK they drive these "little" cars.  Good for them.  And, I would NEVER want, nor buy a SUV because of the bad gas mileage that they get.  But that doesn't mean someone else should be called a "show off."  LeSabre was totaled which got pretty good gas mileage and we bought a used Acura.  I'm not trading for an even smaller car.  The LaSabre got better gas mileage.  However, Anne and Grace, we do not drive that much, nor that often.  We normally do all our things in one day.  The most driving we do is four hours down the road to see my dd, sil and grandchildren.

My dd is right now looking for a new car which she desperately needs.  She's been driving this little '94 Honda Civic for 14 years.  She has two children and it's a two door.  However, she's looking for a SAFE car.  She's not as concerned about the gas mileage although I've warned her.  But here thought is safety first with those children!

BTW, in our city you can't find small cars.  They've been sold..none on the car lots.  My other dd and her dh went looking.  So, don't tell me Americans want to show off their SUVs.  That's absolutely ridiculous!  Some people need SUVs for the type of driving they do most..like my children who plan on traveling more through the west and Midwest.

How dare anyone in our government tell us what to do, buy, live, etc.  They drive their SUVs.  They get chauffeured around in a stretch limo.  They own their private jets.  And that includes the Hollywood liberal crowd!

I wish I could afford to have the new windows installed.  I do have storm windows.  I suppose that helps a bit.  Oh, and our AC/HEAT units are heat pumps.  Their supposed to be a little cheaper to run.

Hope ya'll stay cool.  Wish I could afford Solar.  Perhaps we'll win the lottery.

Shirley

No, I didn't say it was the libs or the hollywood crowd that's CAUSING the problem.  What I said was these rich people continue to do what they want us NOT to do.  I don't buy their crap.  Besides that, I don't want the government telling me what I can drive or how much I can eat or what temp I can set my thermostat.  Obama tried that bull, and I'm not buying it.  I'm sure you heard that comment right out of Obama's mouth.  I'm not to PC, right?

Shirley

I think that California, Florida and Alaska should all be drilling ... and I think the car makers are responding to the need for greener cars, although appalled that it has taken this long and that there are not that many hybrid choices.  I have been looking for a car that has enough room and good mileage.  The hybrid suv's are a joke!!  Certainly not enough mileage.  Toyota is price gauging ... charging over sticker for it's hybrids and not budging off sticker on it's smaller cars. 

Rosemary is talking about all the rich people, all the politicians ...  Those people who will never change, never agree to solar panels on people's roofs or a wind power plant around the corner from them.  I've talked to people who live in communities where solar panels on the roof are not allowed since they don't look good!!   

Hi All,

Does anyone out there actually work for the Obama campaign? I signed up for an event and no  one showed up. I tried e-mailing the campaign twice using different forums on their website. Their website is soooo complicated to try and navigate. How do you get anyone over there to listen?

Thanks

Why is Obama wearing a flag pin? 

I have to tell you (to your surprise, I'm sure) that I agree with much this man is talking about. 

Shirley,

I'm glad that you enjoyed the video about food.  I'm not surprised at all that you agreed.  This man's presention was clear and knowledgeable...a combination that is hard to beat.  I go to that web site often when I want to hear more about the positive side of life. 

Rosemary,  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves

I can't agree that it's about supply in the sense of market force because transparency of data is impossible to obtain.  It's supply in the sense of political positions....thus the true value is highly speculative. Add the declining dollar impact (barrel per $) to the global instability, and the price increases.  Any time the dollar gets "stronger", oil declines on the markets.

This excerpt below is taken from  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves

Estimated reserves in order

Countries with largest oil reserves

The amount of oil in any particular oil field involves a degree of uncertainty until the last barrel of oil is produced and the last oil well is abandoned. The following estimates are the best that could be obtained using publicly available data, and the confidence in them varies greatly from country to country. Estimates in developed countries are generally much more accurate than those for undeveloped countries. For instance, reserves estimates in the United States are considered highly accurate, while those in Iraq are highly uncertain. In many countries (particularly OPEC producers) the estimates may involve a great deal of political influence. The raw data underlying reserves estimates is considered a state secret in some countries, so independent assessments of their reserves cannot be made. 

Sorry that the graph didn't print...

I agree too that people will not change habits until necessary.  Remember the long gas lines in the late 70's early 80's. I remember putting gas and oil in my house to offset the squeeze of price....and many people went to generators (as Shirley mentioned).  I saw an older house last week, here in the middle of town, with a wind mill.

I agree too, Rosemary, that it's difficult and sometimes cost prohibitive to retrofit construction, so people are left to their own resources for management.  That management will occur only when their comfort level is no longer sustainable...just like the resources we are using.

One of the posts that was copy and pasted is too wide, causing it to appear all wide screen, kind of like when someone posts a picture that is too big.

My comments were not directed specifically to you Shirley. You know, of course, as do I, that you are free to do as you choose to do. Whether you make changes is entirely up to you, and quite frankly, I don't give a blip whether you try to go green or not. This isn't a competition of who is going greener! I just wonder why you take so personally some of the comments that are made here? We can all do more to  use less gas, and are free to do or not to do. If a person doesn't, then they will pay more for that. I include myself when I say all Americans in my comments. When someone provides information on what other countries are doing to consume less energy or are making green changes, why do you retort with a "bully for them" attitude?

When idi it become "the rich people continue to do what they don't want us to do"? How can you make such generalized statements? Who specifically are "these rich people?" How and when have they told us what to do? I hear "we" and "they" often in your arguments which weakens the point you are trying to make. IMHO. It's not effective to put people on one side or the other of an argument, as it reduces the strength of the argument. We can see that totally on this board--look at the many we and they groups that are judged to be on only one side or the other: libs/conservatives, repubs/demos, rich/poor, college educated/not, west/east, north/south, and I'm sure all of us could add more to these. What I have found in my lifetime is that even if I disagree with someone on an issue, I can always find an issue that I wholeheartedly agree on with the same person. We and they is too black and white, and too judgemental when discussing issues, particularly politics!

As for getting double-paned windows and solar panels that the government will pay for--I hope whomever wants this is willing to pay a lot more in taxes!! We are already carrying a huge deficit. LOL. I do know that there are rebate programs for going more energy efficient--whether it's insulation, solar, or energy efficient light bulbs. And there are government rebate programs--you just have to do a little research. Our state gives rebates for these items. We don't have solar at this point because it is too costly, but as it becomes more available the price will drop and then we will be sure to put it in.

We have many, many wind machines in the Bay Area of California. They do produce a large amount of energy. The only negative is that many of our native birds are killed by these machines as they migrate north to south and vice versa every year.

So much discussion here about drilling off the coast US on Atlantic and Pacific sides. I keep thinking about the disagreements some of us have had on this board about the control the federal government should or shouldn't have on it's citizens and states. So, it comes down to whether we want to have less federal control, and if so, then the states decide what they want to do or not do. If the feds control, then the states lose their ability to control what happens regarding the specific state.

Think about how that would effect whether there will be offshore oil drilling in the next 10 years? And even if we do, our need for oil seems to be only increasing, so that 10 years of drilling will solve nothing. We should be grateful that we had so many years of cheap gasoline, and think about the high prices other countries have had to pay for years! Sometimes we Americans behave like little spoiled, rotten brats! It's always me, me, me. When are we going to realize that what we (each of us) does has major effect on the world around us? This is one planet that we need to cuddle and treat well at all times. It is time to get over this, it's all about me attitude, and I'll damn well do as I please. If this attitude continues, this country will go down for sure. The Bush regime has destroyed our reputation in the world, and it will take years and years to get it back, if we are given the opportunity to do so!! And the possibility of being in the Middle East for any length of time up to and including and perhaps beyond 100 years is frightening--simply because we can't afford a 3rd Bush term!

And what did people do when they didn't have SUVs and supersized trucks to travel in? I remember growing up and my parents having a small station wagon that we traveled across country in--and camped in the process!! So, you don't need an SUV to travel in the United States Shirley--that would be a luxury, just like the A/C and the generator. Hope you won't take my comment personally--it's just my honest opinion!

We live outside the city also in the mountains, and our power goes out at least 4 times a year, often for up to 5 days. When it does, we are conserving our well water stored in 2 5,000 gal. tanks--as our pump does not run when the electricity is out. We don't have a generator because it seems  to be something we don't really need. We always have enough water for our personal use, and for fire if need be. We compost as much as we can, including all the weeds we pull out of the garden and the pruning we do. We water with drip hoses instead of sprinklers that often put the water in the wrong place! We park in the shade at the grocery store, and walk across the lot, so when we return to the car we don't have to use the A/C for the trip home as the car is cooler. We buy some of our clothes and my grandbaby's clothes (as well as toys) at the second hand store. The store uses their profits to help the needy in our community. And when they are outgrown, we give them back to the store for the next person who might need them. I don't give examples here of what we do, to get a pat on the back/a good for you/or well bully for you (sarcasm), I hope that what I say here triggers others to write here what they do to go "greener." This is a long process, and a difficult on to make many of these changes, but some are doable right away.

The gas and oil issue will be with us for a long, long time. It can't be solved in the next 2 years, but we still have to start to solve it as none of us wishes to be paying $10. a gallon for gasoline in a few years. This isn't the 1970s with lines at the gas pumps, but it could be if we don't start to solve this problem now!!

To Susie: I was not "condemning the American public," just pointing out the truth. Of course there are always exceptions to the rule! But truthfully, all one has to do is watch the advertisements on TV or see them in the magazines subscribed to--we (and I include myself) are always tantalized by what we see, and really, there are many of us who never deny ourselves of what we want when we want it! Of course, there are the times when the car breaks down and it costs thousands to fix, or the dental issues(as you pointed out), or the flooding in the midwest that is happening now. I'm not speaking to those issues! I'm talking about the flat screen TVs that some of us must have now, no matter what. I'm talking about the leasing of cars for 2-3 years, and turning them in. I'm talking about the purchase of a new car every year as soon as the new model comes out. Believe me, I have known many individuals who live this way--TVs in every room, the latest in appliances, trips to whereever they are lead to go right now--there is no end! The mass consumption of goods has led to the building of storage facilities, so we can store whatever doesn't fit in our home, or is being replaced by the next new model. I had a landlady who bought a new set of luggage every year, and a new TV every year--and the old ones were in the garage attic!! Most of that stuff was there forever--at least the 10 years we lived there! We live in a society of conspicuous consumption and we are spoiled rotten members of this planet. We are so used to having and getting whatever we need whenever we believe we need it. If we don't have the cash, why just charge it, and worry about how to pay for it later! And whatever is broken, or out of style we just trash or throw in the garbage!

This is our wake up call--hopefully we won't push the sleep mode button this time around! 

Look at this on youtube ...  about the CFC light bulbs.  I had no idea that there was a "proper" way to dispose of these mercury containing light bulbs that are only made in China (um, the place where we had to recall our kid's toys due to lead in the paint).   The man from Texas, not Bush, points out that the EPA says you have to EVACUATE the room if you break one of these light bulbs. 

I also didn't know it was going to be outlawed to have incandescent bulbs.  I have one in my room next to my bed because I like the light it gives off when I read and it has 3 settings.   All my other bulbs are the CFCs.   As he points out, since when did the constitution give the government the right to tell us that our light bulbs were to be regulated??  

 http://youtube.com/watch?v=e-LOtKIIKcg