The Brand New Respectful Presidential Campaign Thread

Beesie

It's nice to know that I'm not the only one who noticed the inconsistency in Obama's new position on the gas tax, as compared to what he said when he was campaigning against Clinton.   Honestly, I just can't listen to him talk anymore.  It's all platitudes and lies. Or whatever he thinks is the right thing to say today.  That, of course, may be different from what he said yesterday and will be different from what he says tomorrow. 

My concern is that Clinton may have done too good a job of explaining to her supporters why they have to support Obama now.  I really hope that there is something lurking in the depths of his closet (or Michelle's) so that he becomes truly unelectable and loses the election by a wide margin.  That way there would be no suggestion that it was racial bias that did him in.

anneshirley

Shirley--I agree with Jaybird with respect to the lack of logic in your statement on politicians' morality.  It's wrong or it's not wrong; doesn't matter whether the person is president or not president, and it's more likely (although McCain may be too old) if the person does it once, he'll do it again.

Also, like Jay, I don't give a hoot about what the person is doing, so long as it's legal.  That's between him, his spouse, and the woman he's doing it with--or man.  I care about what he does for the country, and by extension, for me.

But if you were to follow  your logic down the line, then you should be voting for Obama as, to our knowledge, he doesn't have a record of cheating on his wife, and so far no rumors either.

I'm more concerned about his "change" position, which appears to be I'll change my opinion by the hour depending on whom I'm speaking to.  If a Jewish audience, I love Israel; if Arab audience, I'll help the Palestinians; if on gas prices, the other guy has a gimmick, but here's what I'll do for you! an ever bigger gimmick.  Etc., etc.  Americans do seem to love to be fooled, but we're not the exceptions; Italy recently put Berlesconi back into office.  Previously, he had promised the world and didn't deliver, so he was voted out, and when the next guy didn't make a difference in a few months out he went, and back came Berlesconi.   It's beyond me how the only thing that gets anyone elected is lies, and how little people actually read and understand what's going on, and apparently how ittle they care.

I'm not sure I agree with you, Beesie, about Obama losing the general election--another four years of Republican policies scares me.  But perhaps your hopes will florish before August and Hillary will still get the nomination.  Hope, Hope! 

saluki

Well - If you are hoping someone has something that would make Obama unelectable;  You better hope its not in McCain's hands.  He's infuriating and alienating everyone in his party with his notion of moral high grounds.

So unless some 527 has this and is sitting on it--It won't see the light of day.

As to four more Bush years----Definitely not what you get with McCain.

The guy marches to his own drummer.

That's another reason why he drives his party nuts.  Remember-this is the guy John Kerry asked to be his running mate.

I think without some surprise tape,  Hillary's best chance is for McCain to be elected.  Age would be a very big issue in 2012 and McCain will

have to have a bona fide conservative on the ticket to unify his party.  Whoever that person is will probably be who you are looking at for 2012, and not McCain.  Whoever that person is they won't garner the independents and moderate vote.  

So, if Hillary continues to play the "good girl" for the sake of the party and Obama looses on his own she won't be blamed.----

Would the Dems be insane enough to deny her the nomination in 2012?

Anonymous

That would be a good plan and hopefully she will get it in 2012 ... she knows she can't argue with Obama now or she'd alienate her party.  I wish someone like Trump (Ross Perot was too weird) would go Independant or pledge business assistance/business minded government for our government ... I say someone like Trump, I don't know if he was fiscally responsible or irresponsible when he went bk .... was it overblown spending or reorganization, I can't say since I don't know. But we need someone helping the gov't cut programs we can't afford, cut aid we can't afford, reduce spending and maybe take a look at Reaganomics ... somehow we had a good economy with Reagan's policies.... one that turned around from high unemployment and high interest rates ... but we also had lower oil prices.

Anonymous

Anneshirley, I'm sorry you do not like my "moral" reasoning.  I know people make mistakes.  They choose wrong partners.  Divorce happens.  Adultery happens.  SHIT HAPPENS! 

Here's where I truly stand on moral issues.  If one is elected President of the United States of American, he/she needs to keep their pants on..plain and simple.  I don't care what color, what gender, what religion, etc.  They've only got 4 - 8 years in which they need to be "good."  And, as we discussed previously, the press covered up for the presidents WAY BACK THEN!  No more.  The press will even tell LIES about a president. 

You brought a thought to my mind.  Bill Clinton was HELL BENT on keeping his office. I will never forget him pointing that finger and saying HE NEVER HAD SEX WITH THAT WOMAN!  And Hillary saying it was a conspiracy theory.  And Clinton lovers believed it.  If a republican had done what Bill did I think he'd have been booted out or would have stepped down.  Hillary had a hard time stepping down...just a thought. 

I do expect high morals/standards according to some on this board.  But I hope most Americans share my values.  One can argue all day long that the president doesn't have to set an example.  Bull crap!  He surely does.  Our children and grandchildren are watching and listening. 

I'm really trying to understand what has happened to our country when it comes to how our standards have changed.  And I'm not proposing that politicians, or just ordinary people should be ostracized FOREVER for their mistakes.  I believe in many circumstances you can tell the character of men/women who repeat a pattern of indiscretions.

I digress. 

Shirley

Blundin2005

Hi Ladies,

Here's an article that discussed Hillary's pivotal role... a good test of character and Mrs. Clinton's intentions.  I'm on the skeptical side of the street about her and I hope very much that I'm wrong.

http://www.alternet.org/election08/87629/

...flip flop talk ... this is black or white, with me or against me, right or wrong ... in other words polarized thinking to paralyze people in fear ... a pathology.

I expect a leader to assess current affairs with the wisdom gleaned from the past and an educated appraisal of the future.  With regard to Isreal/Palastine the two state solution and Iran....Iran is a small country.  If Iran develops nuclear capability under the current leadership, I too would stand as a friend to Isreal and offer to remove the threat militarily....which as both Mrs. Clinton and Obama noted, can be achieved. This does not mean that I agree with all of the aggressive and overreaching policies of Isreal e.g., settlements.

I also expect the candidates to conduct their campaign in a responsible fashion with regard to foreign policy before the election....destablizing the world serves very few people's interest...I look for a broader solution not just the privileged few.  

I'll go away now ....  

 

Blundin2005

I'm not on the boards everyday now due to other responsibilities....so when I return I'm in catch up mode most of the time.  I was surprised at the big chill.

Oh....I get it....everyone went to the "Respectful Republican...."  Well that speaks volumes. 

I guess talking politics and religion remains a very difficult thing to do.  Duly noted.

Best wishes to all as always,

anneshirley

Hi Marilyn,

I read the article you posted by Matt someone or other and found it so sexist, I didn't find it worthy of a reply.  

Here's a video for any of you who don't believe sexism is alive and well in this country.  As one of the commentators states, we're "68" in the world in terms of percentage of women representatives in government.  I guess we're planning to stay there, or perhaps creep even lower.  And as another commentator states, we're a nation with more women voters than men.  True, so it would appear that American women are heavy contributors to the problem.  

 http://www.womensmediacenter.com/sexism_sells.html .
 

Paulette531

Blundin...what big chill? And since you made your SNIDE Republican remark, why would anyone want to listen to you ...Coming in with guns blazing maybe you should expect to get shot. You sound like the little brat on the playground, "if I can't pick the game and be the winner then I will just take my toys and go home". Better yet, for me personally, your "I live in Italy and they are so much better here and they all hate Americans (except for me) blah blah blah" liberal crap is quite boring anyway.

Jaybird627

Well, I'm just not into either of these candidates so I have nothing to offer. I'm going to write-in Hillary's name even if it doesn't 'count' - because she's still my choice!!!

I refuse to be 'blamed' for whatever happens over the next 4 years. If Hillary runs again I'll throw myself into her campaign as best as I can.

Blundin2005

Hi Anne,

I viewed the video.  It's breathtaking....but these are not the main stream media are they?  I didn't see Russet buy into it.  People actually listen to this?  It's like the staged talk shows of years gone by where people fought on stage for ratings.   Thanks .... and I signed the petition.  My cousin and sisters told me about some of this...but seeing it is another thing altogether.  What a sad state of affairs for our country when this is mainstream television.  It was only when I read an article in the Washington Post a few weeks ago that I knew this type of daily attack even existed.  The height of emotion on the topic is understandable. 

Hi Paulette,

Sorry that you feel this way, that I come across to you in this manner, as it was not my intent to offend.  I only stated my opinion as so many here before me.  I'm as passionate as the next person when I think we are creating greater divides instead of bridging differences.  I don't "take my toys and go home" on the topic of breast cancer, pain control, hormone therapy and how to pay for it....for this I'm still fighting.  I've never been good at diplomacy.  I'm not a politician nor do I want to be.  Not that I've seen much diplomacy on these boards...so I don't think that it's necessary to hold me to a higher standard.

As for "better than" issue....I've never claimed this as the statement is without merit...different yes, but never better than.  If I didn't care about the US I wouldn't vote at all.

Best wishes to all, as always

rnmomof3

How do you start a new post I am new to the site.  I had my mammogram and ultrasound on Friday.  I felt a lump this is why I had the test.  They found a mass 3cm and solid.  THey said it was grade 4.  It is painless.  I am 41 years old and I don't meet with the surgeon until Friday for a possible needle biopsy.  Any advice I am scared to death.

rnmomof3

How do you start a new post I am new to the site.  I had my mammogram and ultrasound on Friday.  I felt a lump this is why I had the test.  They found a mass 3cm and solid.  THey said it was grade 4.  It is painless.  I am 41 years old and I don't meet with the surgeon until Friday for a possible needle biopsy.  Any advice I am scared to death.

Rosemary44

I watched about 2 mins. of the video and saw that moron Chris Matthews (whose leg tingles whenever he hears Obama speak) and I had to turn it off.   I can't do that jerk.  He has nothing to say that's worthy of us listening to him about anything.  I heard that MSNBC is losing the rating wars big time.  Good.

Anonymous

My input...I NEVER saw Hillary as a WOMAN.  I saw her as a POLITICIAN!  And yes, there's gonna be descrimation for all candidates...McCain is too old, perhaps some do not like Obama because of his color, and yes, there are those who will not like Hillary because of her sex.  If this was a "sexist" campaign and she lost because she was a woman, then why did she get the popular vote?

I do not think the majority of Americans are against women.  Call me naive.

My dd is an attorney.  Before that she was the court advocate for the domestic violence shelter.  When she took the job for the shelter she bought "dignity" into the courthouse..she was a lawyer at the time.  She earned the respect of the judges.  They loved her.  In no way did they EVER see her as "just a women."  Believe me, it was hard to replace her.

We can tear this campaign to pieces blaming Hillary's loss to being a woman.  Wrong.  What I saw was her dh doing stupid things.  And then we have this young man, Obama, coming in promising CHANGE, HOPE and is a charismatic speaker who's full of hot air.

My choice is McCain because I surely don't want to see Obama as our president.  However, I would much rather see Hillary in the WH than Obama.  I think she would have fought a hard fight against McCain.

I watch Fox for most of my news.  I do think they "fair and balanced" and I think they are truthful.  Can't judge the other networks.  And I've seen many of the host defent Hillary and agree that she was not giving the same press that Obama had.  He is the "darling" so he gets by with crap.

I don't blame you women who were/are for Hillary.  But, please, it was not her sex that decided the winner of the dem nomination.  I know it was heartbreaking for you for her to lose.  It will be heartbreaking for me if Obama wins.  And it's not because he's a man of color.  It's because he doesn't know crap about what he saying.

Shirley

Anonymous

Okay, Fox is going to have a report on just this subject...Hillary, press and sexism.

SLH

Wealthy Americans should vote Republican.  They will benefit greatly from the tax cuts.  Middle income Americans and the poor voting Republican doesn't make sense.  They're just being used by the Republican propaganda machine. 

Anonymous

Madayln, I don't know who you were referring to about Hillary's husband and his sex life.  What I saw him doing DURING her campaign was making a bunch of gaffes.  For me it all started in South Carolina.  When I heard him refer to Jesse Jackson I cringed.  And it didn't take the Republican propaganda machine to influence how I felt. 

I still feel like Bill screwed her and her campaign.  JMO.

Shirley

Ivylane

Madalyn::  I must say I agree with you.  I haven't posted in a while for the same reasons.  Actually, today was the first time I have looked at this thread in a while and it's the same old divisive rhetoric.  I have also found Paulette's responses to posts mean and offensive, but hey, that's what makes this country great... I'll be lookng for another venue to comment on as well.  Have a great summer everyone.

Paulette531

Blue and Madalyn...you think Blundins remark about the Repub thread is OK? Rich, real rich...you guys always use the excuse, I rarely post here any longer because blah, blah, blah!

Beesie

anneshirley, that was an interesting video. 

My interpretation, to Shirley's point, is not that the majority (or even a minority) of Americans are against women.  I don't think they are.  However, to me what the video shows is that there is a level of acceptance of discrimination against women that is so deeply entrenched that people can say things like that openly in public, on national t.v., and nobody blinks.  It's just accepted.  It's a joke.  Ha Ha.  Let's make fun of the woman and her female traits and characteristics.  Can you imagine if anything half as bad had been said about Barack Obama's traits (or supposed traits) because of his being African American? 

The types of comments that we see on that video show that in addition to the legitimate critiques that Clinton and Obama both faced about their positions and policies (and let's admit it, she faced much more), Clinton also faced a whole other category of criticisms and critiques, one that Obama did not have to face.  If anyone thinks this didn't have an impact on how the voters saw the candidates and ultimately, on the results themselves, they are naive.  It may not have been conscious (on the part of the voters anyway; it was conscious on the part of the media) but those negative impressions of Clinton certainly would have seeped into the subconscious of enough of the voters to have made a difference.

Anonymous

"It is somewhat aggravating though that having created your own exclusive place"

MADALYN: why not start Liberal/Democrat thread where you won't feel like Republicans have the last word?

Anonymous

Girls,

My dad is spending the weekend here with me.  He is voting for Obama. He said he cannot vote Republican because he thinks that they only care about themselves.  That we haven't even seen Cheney, almost since the election. That these guys have gotten RICH off the war and Haliburton (sp). 

I do think that the same old same old Repubs have to go away. They are dinosaurs.  I don't want them anymore in power either.

Is McCain going to be that different?  My sister is voting for him because of experience.

I am against illegal immigration.

I am against higher taxes.

I am for a better economy and don't think a $600 tax rebate is the answer.

I am for ending the war.

I am for less spending abroad and until things are better, less spending on social programs ... believe the charities and churches should pitch in more.

I am for the super-rich to bear more taxes. I think Obama wants to eliminate the SS tax on wages under $250K?? 

I am for the end of the Alternative Minimum Tax or raising it substantially.

I despise unending welfare programs designed to keep people poor forever.

I hate paying for illegal immigrant's education and medical care.

Oh and who is going to address the gas problem??? Or the deficit??

I miss Bill Clinton, Hillary and Monica!  Bring back that good economy!

...

now I wonder who I am supposed to vote for?? 

Anonymous

I don't know how I compare to what you said about socially liberal?  I am fiscally conservative, I know that.  I agree with everything you've said except I don't want any more social programs unless it's money coming from money we're spending elsewhere.  I believe we need to help ourselves before we help others.

And if the argument is that we are a global economy then someone tell that to the Arabs and all those governments who have surplusses of millions of dollars (Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, United Arab Emirates, Oman) and even Luxembourg is wealthy ... why don't these nations start helping out the poorer nations instead of us.

Jaybird627

To: Shirley(Hughes) Thanks for your post/perspective (Re: Hillary supporters). You've just gone up a notch in my opinion!

I was with my (seemingly 'Republican') family all day today and they (surprisingly) agreed with me in that neither candidate is the better choice and that Hillary was the better democratic choice. Wow. Gotta love family!

I also have to add that I believe Paulette to be more negative and divisive in her posts than Marilyn has ever been.

My posts are generally simple - succinct and to the point - because words in print don't always portray what you mean, as they would in person. I am quite articulate and astute but stay out of the fray as on-line conversations/arguments aren't as much fun as those in person!

Carry on, voters! I'm STILL supporting Hillary!

Anonymous

Janis ...... I would've voted Hillary ...... not McCain ...... I know she is a liar even an exaggerator.  I don't care. She did that because she wants a good rep and to get elected.  Ok bad bad.  But I think she'd be as good as Bill was. 

I don't care about their person ..... I care about our country.  If you can put our country FIRST I will vote for you. 

Jaybird627

Rock, you'd vote for ME?????

I know, vote for the "best" person. I won't vote for "the lesser of two evils" so I'm not voting for either major party candidate this year.

It's going to be 4 years of "I told you so" and I'll be one of those shouting that quite loudly.

omo

For me Obama's policies if put in place will impact my life positively.And so for me it's 'Obama all the way'.

He  gets my vote and I hope he gets to put the basketball court in The White House!!

sccruiser

I fear this country and many Americans are not ready for a black man or white woman to be in the White House. At least 2 of the "isms" are present in this election year. I'm sure the others are also, except no one with another "ism" wants to be president.

Let's face it, no matter who is elected, that individual will not be able to "clean up" the mess the Bush/Cheney regime has created in the last 8 years. Even if McCain is elected (G** forbid!!), he will do no better, and probably worse to "fix" many of the issues in her post. And in MHO he is still running for Bush's 3rd term. Sorry, just what I see and hear. If he wanted to separate himself, he wouldn't have Bush sponsoring "private" fundraisers for the very, very, very wealthy in this country to donate to his campaign!!

No matter what anyone says about Obama or whether he is electable or not, he brings a fresh look at politics and speaks to many of the changes this country needs to make if we are to stay strong through the next century. We have to rebuild our reputation as a world power--a reputation that Bush threw away by behaving like a terrorist and invading another country. It will take years to live down what he has done.

I'm with my of the others here. My first choice was Edwards, then Hillary, but I differ here with some of the others--as I will vote for Obama in November. I've had enough of the 8 year Republican regime. What ever it takes to end this regime, I will vote to do so. We are mired in debt, housing crisis, economy, gas prices....the list goes on and on. AND I don't see Bush doing anything to change this--it is business as usual for him. He just disagrees with whatever anyone tries to tell him, when it's something he doesn't want to hear! He even wants to reach a long-term agreement with the Iraqi government BEFORE he goes out of office. Luckily, the Iraqi government is smart, and sees him for what he is, and refuses to negotiate with him! All anyone has to do is look at his approval rating to see that 2/3rds of the country has had enough. And I am hoping that this 2/3rds will vote in November, and put a Democrat in the White House.

Blundin2005

Ladies all....so many thoughtful comments....reading them I felt a strong sense that democracy is still very much alive and well....and we women play no small role in it.

"Never run faster than your guardian angel can fly"