The Brand New Respectful Presidential Campaign Thread

HAHA.............you ladies are just too funny..........great day of posting........very interesting...........Shirley if Hillary doesn't get the nomination we very well may see who or is it whom is the real Obama.......Hillary will make sure of that................(not sure but I don't think I made much sense).........anyway hopefully you get my drift............Shokk

Cheryl........got fresh raspberries, beefsteak tomatoes, fresh honey, fresh sunflower seeds and a big watermelon.......oh yeah........not sure how the dems are going to play out but I was listening to npr today and they had democrat talking head on and he made an interesting statement.......he was talking about how democrats have tendency to "fall in love" with their candidates without really knowing too much about them and was voicing concern about Obama's history.....that it probably will not play well in middle American even with middle American Democrats..........so we will have to see............and I do find it a bit amusing that some think McCain will be a "third term" Bush.........uh not........McCain is no conservative and I have my doubts that he is even a Republican.........but we will see now won't we chica..........but I am excited about see all of this play out in the summer and fall............it's going to be so exciting.........Shokk

Bin, you can swill beer with me anytime.... and wear cut-offs and flip flops.  Hey beer even comes in cans!  

Cherryl, .....  have you ever been to Trader Joe's?  They have what we call Two Buck Chuck.  It's won awards if you can believe that!  Chardonnay, Merlot and even a Cab. 

RM, Not only have I heard of two buck chuck, I have indulged in it quite a bit. I was giving Bren a hard time. Although I am basically a card carrying wino, on hot days, after working in the garden, nothing taste better than a cold beer. I fancy myself a beverage snob based on the "motto" of the Episcopal Church (unofficial) "Wherever three or four are gathered, there is always a fifth...of something!"

Shirley, I really find it interesting that Republicans are down on McCain. To us Dems, he's all Republican, All conservative. Isn't it interesting how we have such different perspectives.

Off to pour myself another glass of Australian Chardonnay, although there are two bottles of Sam Adams light in the refrig!!!

Cherryl

What I do like about McCain is he SEEMS to be honest.  I hope he doesn't disappoint me. 

LOL Shokk -

You know what happens if we cut Alaska in half don't you?  We turn Texas into the 3rd largest state in the USA....LOL

If the price of oil gets much higher even the liberals will be standing in line to open up ANWAR and drill for some oil.  It kind of cracks me up when people talk about the "unspoiled beauty" of the area....Get gas up to 5 bucks a gallon and I doubt as many folks will care....

Deb C

Amy,

I'm listening to CNN right now.  Where did Hillary say she is a better Christian then Obama????? and a better human being???  I would think comments like that would be headline news. 

Http://www.cnn.com/video

She said she'd let him talk for himself. 

deleted - posted twice

Amy, you will be happy to know that I am a VERY, VERY forgiving person.  My girls think too forgiving.

Let me tell you just a little about one situation.  I became friends with my brother's SO.  I had talked to her over the phone before going to San Antonio to take care of my mom for a couple of months and take care of "stuff."  His SO, Roni, picked me up at the Houston airport.  We never met so we told each other what we were wearing.  I knew she was pregnant.  She's the age of my middle child and my brother is two years older than me. 

Rone never had good friends.  She was in trouble from the time she was at least 13 yo.  Her adoptive mom her in at least three places to help straighten her out.  One was the Rebecca Home which was run by a very strick Baptist church.  She told me about this place and I thought it was HORRID!  Abusive!  And I'm a Baptist.  She also was sent to Outer Bounds (is that the name of it?). Anyway, they lived in the "wilderness."  She said she learned more there.  But the Rebecca Home was the hardest for her to get over.

Okay, fast forward.  She had a baby while I was still in San Antonio which lead me to stay a bit longer.  Roni was always a mess.  I could only TRY to help this poor soul.  I did not judge her nor do I judge her to this day.

Fast forward again.  She started doing heroine.  And on God knows what else.  She found out she was pregnant and was trying to kick it by doing different drugs such as sedatives, anti-deps, etc.  I told her she HAD to get on Methadone.  She said no that she was pregnant and I told her that's what's used when one is pregnant, not the other drugs.  She was afraid they'd take away her first child and I assured her they wouldn't.

Fast forward.  She had a little boy who was addicted at birth.  He is now 4 yo and smart, but I believe he'll have some behavioral problems.

She was stopped for a traffic violation and used my name.  I was sent this thing in the mail from Bexar County that I had to appear in court.  Well, I was furious.  My dd is an attorney and she talked to the DA there.  DD also sent Roni a letter telling her if she tried this again we would file charges for identity theft.  I did not talk to her for a long time.

Fast forward.  She left my brother and the two children.  My brother and she fought constantly.  It's a long, long, long story that I will not go into.  However, it was not all her fault.  But, she is still on drugs and alcohol.

Fast forward almost two years.  I received a phone call from her about a month ago and called her back.  We talked for at least two hours.  I told her I was not her judge.  But that I would love to see her get her life together for those children.  She with a guy that's also a drug addict and alcoholic.  She called again less than a week ago.  I called her back.  We talked for almost an hour. 

Amy, I was her only friend who happened to be female.  She never really had friends.  She has lived on the streets with other guys before I ever knew her.  She told me stories about jumping into dumpsters to get food.  Her mother went to court to give up parental rights (what's the legal term for this?) because she could not longer control Roni.  So, Roni has been on her own since she was 16.

When we talked the other night she cried.  She told her now boy friend that I never judged her.  That her family will have nothing to do with her (or her children).  I told Roni that she will ALWAYS have a place in my heart.  I sit here now and cry thinking about her.  But, I can't help her.  I can only encourage her.  I have often told her she had choices to make.  Some people just don't want to make the right choice.  And I know she loves her children, but heroine has her.

I'm not patting myself on the back.  I couldn't have her live with me.  I know what it's like to be around her for a lengthy time and I would lose any sanity I have left. 

As far as religion and what Obama was saying about forgiveness...I try to do that.  I try not to judge ANYONE.  I'm not perfect.  God is the judge.  Forgiveness is important.

"For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." -- Matthew 6:14-15

Forgiveness is also important for us if we want to "move one."  If we hold bitterness in our hearts we'll stay stuck.  Being stuck is a horrible place to be in one's life.  Look what Oprah had to overcome, and what she has made of her life.  One can forgive, but one doesn't have to "entertain" the one they forgive.  Memories are forever.

Amy, from what you have said about your life, I wonder if you've been slighted the opportunity of being a "child." I know what that's like.  That's why I wanted my children to be kids.  I didn't want them working while in high school.  Perhaps dumb of me, but that's how I felt due to my life experience growing up as a teen.  I said they'd be working the rest of their lives.  I wanted them to have fun and be care free.  I'm not talking about being irresponsible, but just being a kid.  And I'm very proud of who they have become, and look forward to seeing them grow further.

Shirley

Shirley:  Your post about forgiveness was beautiful and full of wisdom and empathy.

O4P:  I think I am humbler about my education because I've never insinuated that anyone who disagrees with me about an issue just isn't educated enough to understand.  I'll move on from that.

BinVA:  I suck at math too.

What does everyone think the fall-out will be from Obama's gaffe?  It feels like it could really hurt him even though his comments afterwards put it in perspective.  Shirley, I don't know much about McCain, but of the three still running, I always though Obama was the most honest.  Has anyone here still not decided who they are going to vote for?  For me, it depends a lot on whether Hilary or Obama get the nomination; then I'll have to do a lot of research on McCain.

Oh, I'll vote for the democratic candidate, no matter who that is. I would never, ever vote for a republican. The republican presidents who have held that post have never done anything for the less fortunate than them. They are, in my opinion, the elitists in this country--those in office, not the people who vote republican--I want to make that clear.



I was disappointed in Obama's comments the other day. I believe his comments were not thought through before he said them. I do not think he is an intellectual elitist. I do think that McCain is though. Even though he attempts to distance himself from Bush, he still remains connected. He did not participate in the compassion/faith open forum even though he was invited. I think it was a mistake that McCain chose not to take part. I think it will be another "strike" against him in the election. He is out of touch with the people in this country. He is a war hero, no doubt, but he is certainly not presidential material in my opinion.



I missed all this back and forth business about race. Took a break from the board and spent it with my darling granddaughter, daughter and husband. It was a great peaceful weekend.



I can see that if you didn't watch the conversation on race, along with the 90 minute discussion group, you would misinterpret what Amy was saying. The commentator and the panel members, as well as the President of Howard University, stated (in their own words that I will not try to remember and put in quotes--so is my opinion of what they said) that it was unfortunate that the conversation and panel discussion was held at Howard University as the people who needed to see this and continue the conversation on race were not present. They said that the audience was made up of students, professional educators, and people who had participated in race conversations in an academic environment. They hoped that the american people would be able to watch this documentary and panel discussion and take the conversation of race forward into their own communities.



I think jumping all over each other about who said what, and who verbally abused others on this site, is not a productive way of dealing with "intellectual elitism" and race. My opinion was that the comment about "intellectual elitism" had more to do with a negative as to who was present, and not a negative to who was not. It was more a statement that academics often appear to be "loftier" in their talk about race. That they sometimes are elitist because they speak academically rather than in a way that all can understand. It does not mean that those that are not academic are less smart or less educated. Those of us with college degrees, no matter when or where they were, should be able to relate to the term "academic jargon." Much of what we read in college was written for publication, particularly those in private or public universities. The books and articles are filled with jargon, sometimes even made up words that have evolved in the intellectual atmosphere of a white tower elitist. I remember reading an article from a book written by a well-known full professor in feminist studies, and having to look up every 5 words in the dictionary (and at least 1 in each paragraph didn't exist) to the point that I was so frustrated I went to my professor and asked that we have a full discussion of the article in the next class. Turned out that every student in that class did not understand most of what was written, and it was only by the professor dissecting the article paragraph by paragraph that we got the gist of what the author was trying to convey. And some of the students were graduate students!



In short, I found the panel discussion to be very down to earth. It was a discussion about what needed to happen in communities to change race and provide opportunities for disenfranchised minorities in this country. I was particularly moved by the comments made by the white chief of police of Washington DC. She saw and experienced the lack of opportunities for blacks in her city. She believes that the city community--not the African American community--as a whole needs to come together and provide opportunities. Not money, not welfare, not handouts--but real opportunities. Community centers for children to go after school. Teen centers with tutors and coaches. Parks in inner city areas. Improving the looks of the neighborhoods. Setting up grants and scholarships for disenfranchised groups. She believes that she herself could not survive AND thrive in the conditions she sees other women of color live day after day. AND she said, they could really be successful if given just one opportunity. Just one. Just one step up that those of us who are white have been given time and time again without even asking. Those lovely privileges that allow us to just keep moving on!



So, I hope that those who want to will watch the documentary and panel discussion, and determine for yourselves what was said or not said. Amy is entitled to her opinion, just as I am, and just as each of you are. It's important to all of us to see this program if we can. I don't think we can have a positive discussion about this until it is seen by all of us. It is hard to talk about what is said and get our personal point across.



I just don't believe that we need to demean or punish each other, or call someone condescending, or mean. I don't believe that any of us want to be called those descriptors. There is enough going on in this country that we should be talking about the candidates and their platform, or lack of one.

I want to hear what others think about each of the candidates. I may be leaning more toward one or the other, but I still want to hear what we all have to say.



And if this posts more than once, I apologize, but I seems to be having a real lag time or proxy error comes up when I try to move from one thread to the next. (

Amy,

Ijl, the reason I haven't given you more than the list I pulled is because I don't feel like doing your research, since you're not going to even consider voting for Obama.

You are missing the whole point here. You should not do the research for my sake, you should do it for your own sake. Don't you want to know whether your candidate has leadership skills necessary for the office of presidency ? And what could be a better predictor of his success as a president than his track record in Senate ?

You once again proved my point that you are not for Obama because of his accomplishments but because he is for change whatever it might be.

I will not vote for Obama precisely because he accomplished absolutelty NOTHING in Senate and is an empty suit all around. And the fact that his campaign staff that is paid to do it could not find A SINGLE bill to boast about speaks volumes.  We might as well elect his speech writer as this is the most remarkable thing about Obama.

"Hope is change and change is hope" - Barak Obama