The Brand New Respectful Presidential Campaign Thread
Comments
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Grace,
Read the article ... but need to go back and re-read, a lot to digest.
Beth,
Agree with you, Grace, and Roctober, add the War and fuel prices to that list!
Runs With Beer (I love that),
All I can say is I am grateful I work from home, no longer commuting to corporate America, shuttling to and from little league, etc., or I'd have to do it on a Moped!
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Beth it was the early 80s and I grew up in a very small, all white town with a few asians and middle eastern people. We learned in school that the KKK used to be in the south-- nobody ever said they still existed and this was way before the internet. I had never met a black person or visited the south, how would I know.
I took a cultural diversity class in grad school in the early 90s. The professor was an african american woman and the only types of discrimination she recognized was those of blacks and women. I felt really sorry for the one male in the class, who happened to be white because he seemed to be the target of all her pent up anger. He was the nicest guy in the world who was so open minded and the last type of person she needed to vent against. If the class had been a history of black female discrimination, it would have been a good one.
You ask why we have to understand the "black" or chinese or jewish experience, because while not seeing groups as monolithic, it's important to understand history, in order to not repeat mistakes of the past. It's a sign of respect to understand the different cultural histories individuals and groups experience while recognizing that not everyone in that group has had that experience.
I think that there are problems central to many of the citizens in the country, but also problems that are specific to different groups of people. The jobs that went overseas because of NAFTA have benefitted some while hurting others, dependence on foreign oil benefits some and hurts others, economic disparity benefits some while hurting others etc. My biggest issue is gay rights, but it's not that important to most people-- I would go with a candidate who was against me on every other issue if I could have equality recognized by my president. Probably 90% of the rest of the country has other priorities.
Grace you have so many good points in your post. I agree with just about everything.
I volunteered at campaign headquarters for a few hours today and trained people on working the phones and door to door canvassing-- whites, blacks, hispanic, asian, men, women, young and old, democrats, exrepublicans and indepedents, from a dad with his 4 year old son who were canvasing to a retired couple with an irish brogue who probably think John McCain is a young man. Grace, you would have been energized to see the positivity in the large room. Even from the calls we made and that I oversaw, the sentiments from many of the people on here were not seen-- people were open minded and even when unsure of their votes, interested in talking to us.
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Diane...go to google and type in mccains health plan, clintons health plan and obamas health plan (individually) and you will find them. BTW...Elisabeth Edwards said that McCains health plan would not even cover him (pre existing condition)...his plan does suck! Looks like Clinton may have the best health plan...
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Paulette--- guess McCain is lucky he'd qualify for social security and medicare then LOL.
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Charlton Heston, a conservative in his older years, died, sad, but here was his jab at then Pres. Clinton:
He delivered a jab at then-President Clinton, saying, "America doesn't trust you with our 21-year-old daughters, and we sure, Lord, don't trust you with our guns." Heston stepped down as NRA president in April 2003, telling members his five years in office were "quite a ride. ... I loved every minute of it."
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I loved Charlton Heston............what a great American...........anyway Grace so what is your point about why its ok to vote for a black candidate if your black but if you are white and vote for a white candidate simply because he is white then that makes you a racist?........To me that only makes you immature regardless if you are white or black............to vote for any candidate because he/she is white, black, male, female, young, old, religion affiliation is selling yourself short.....there are many reasons why people choose whom they are going to vote for but it seems to me that as we get older you are out of your mind if you don't vote for the candidate that most represents your own ideologies and beliefs.........if there were a conservative running for President this year I could care less what color they were, what sex they were or how old they are...........unfortunately since we don't have a conservative and not even sure we have a Republican I am going to have to vote outside my comfort zone.............Shokk
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Charlton Marched along with with Martin Luther King during the civil rights era as well. I hated his NRA stance, but he was a great actor and I admire his civil rights work.
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Rocktobermom...I read that and had to LOL! Apparently he came to his senses as he got older!
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Or he started getting alzheimer's sooner than anyone realized
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THATS SICK AMY...........
Puppy
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Hey Shokk,
I had to read that article again ... and it was still too wordy for me, but what I did get from part of it was the author was saying Black folks voting for a Black president (who won) would be participating in a historic moment in American history, same as White women voting for Hillary, or my little personal addition .. VietNam vets voting for McCain (couldn't come up with anything else for him).
Still, any race or sex voting for Barak or Hillary (assuming one of those two won) would also be participating in a historic moment for the United States of America.
As far as healthcare goes ... I've been a fan of Hillary's since she first brought it up as First Lady about 15 years ago, and got booted back into picking out China patterns for her efforts.
I like Heston in Moses and Ben Hur best. Plus, I'm a gun own too. But that topic's already been covered!
I read that Heston was with King years ago as well, but also heard that he was a segregationist. That's word of mouth and I have no facts to back that up.
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I am basically a lurker here, dx 6yrs ago and have been following this thread for some time and enjoy reading all the comments. Have had my own, but never replied..don't really enjoy confrontations...BUT-Amy, you really are a piece of work! Your comment regarding Alzheimer's hit a nerve since my Mother has been dx with this and it truly is one the most awful dx one can get. I watched my aunt slowly deteriorate and eventually did not know who we were and that's what I have too look forward to with my MOther. You, as a so called professional should realize that this is no joke. I can go on and on, but I won't because I'm afraid what I might say.
Michele
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AMEN.....
{{{Michele}}}
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I meant no disrespect to your mother, Michie.I've known several people with alzheimer's as well, two that I care very much. If someone can make a joke about him coming to his senses, I certainly can about him losing his senses. I've seen people joking about a lot of things on these political threads, including slavery which I find abhorrent. I'm the first one to tell and laugh at breast cancer jokes.
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Michele,
Welcome .. don't lurk .. jump right in, I was scared to post to. I'm sorry to hear of the difficult time facing you and your mom.
Bren
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Yes, Amy, I too can joke about breast cancer when I am referring to myself and myself only or with others in a similar situation. People around me don't like it though, but it's me I'm talking about. A joke about coming to ones senses, or losing ones senses is not hurtful in any way. It is the Alzheimer's remark that touched a nerve. I must have missed the slavery joke, but that's a whole other story, not what I'm discussing here.
Michele
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I don't remember anyone making a joke/s about slavery.
Just for the record, I don't care what color or gender a person is that is running for prez. I care about their policies. However, I realize there ARE people out there that wouldn't vote for an African American or a woman. Sad.
Shirley
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If a candidate stood for the things I believe in I wouldn't care about their gender or race, either. I vote for the person who best represents my beliefs.
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And lets not forget that Amy "joked" about McCain having a touch of Alzheimer's.
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Grace Bren pointed out to me that I didn't read your earlier post clearly on another thread so I came back to apology for my snipping post earlier.......sorry............I do agree with for many people that are of color may vote for Obama for historical reasons to elect the first black President but the way I see it for Obama even though I really believe that he is going to end up being unelectable.......is really his youth and his looks............I think for young people voting for the first time he excites them regardless of their color or gender..........I think a young white female person (my daughter that is getting to vote for the first time she is 20) went to a Obama rally in WI and found the whole experience so exciting.......I don't think she could ever be so excited about Hillary.........Obama is well spoken,attractive and youthful............anyway just not on my game tonight and it's a bit dangerous to post on the political threads if your mind is fuzzy..........night to all the political junkies........this summer and fall is going to be so exciting............Shokk
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Shokk,
Geez girl ... you're in pain! And there's nothing wrong with your mind!! That article was so longwinded, I could only glom onto one paragraph of it. Your thoughts remind me of JFK. Young, handsome, exciting! JFK or Nixon ... wow, tough call. I often wonder what our course would have been had RFK been elected.
Bren
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Shirley-- that was you who made the slavery joke-- although you didn't consider it a joke.
Inna- I didn't joke about McCain having alzheimers, I wondered whether the slips in his memory were merely slips, or a sign of something more-- because Reagan had alzheimers before he left office. I didn't say I thought he had alzheimers, but that having some sort of dimensia at 72 would not be out of the realm of possibilities. I don't even think he does have dimensia, it was only one of the list of possibilities for why he made several "misstatements" while in Iraq.
You know, Michie, I really thought that using the term Alzheimers, because it is a medical illness, would be better than talking about losing his senses, because that to me leaves open ended possibilities. I hope you know I didn't mean any disrespect to your mother. One of my dearest friends just lost her mom to early onset alzheimers after a long battle and to lighten things up, she used to joke about it and she appreciated when I did too.
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Bin- I wonder too, what would have happened if RFK had been elected, if JFK and MLK hadn't been assassignated and if Nixon hadn't been president...no watergate...
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Amy ... I wasn't thinking about Watergate ... I was thinking about an early end to VietNam.
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Amy,
I did not mean that you actually joked about McCain, hence I put it in double quotes. I just pointed out your willingness to attack opponents instead of their message. McCain misspoke once or twice during his whole campaign so far and here you are telling us that he is losing his mind since he is so old (72!).
That's exactly what Rush Limbo predicted way back: the liberals will come out and attack McCain for his age. They could not care less that one cannot disriminate on the basis of age.
There is a meanness in your attacks and that's disturbing.
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Shirley has bent over BACKWARDS to make sure to let YOU know that she found slavery abhorrent. She certainly never joked about it. And to quote Inna, there is a meanness in your attacks. I don't understand the venom you have for some of us.
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Well,
2 wrongs don't make a right--so I say instead of tit for tat, that we keep all this above board and stop the character assassinations of those posting on this board. From any of us. Why are some of you so hostile to Amy? Many of her comments are right on. She isn't calling any of you mean or disturbing. If Amy feels that Shirley joked about slavery (it really isn't about whether she did or not) then she is entitled to her opinion. She doesn't have to agree with everything anyone says here, and shouldn't be attacked because she puts up a different comment.
And I don't agree with everything Amy says, but I feel she is entitled to her opinions, just as all of you are. Each of us has had different experiences in our lives, and that helps to form how we decide we believe certain sides of issues. There's no right or wrong. There just needs to be discussion.
And I agree with others here, McCain is too old. Sorry, I'm not discriminating, I just don't think he would be the best choice for our country. He proves this to me in how he thinks about the war, economy, etc. He is out of reach of most young people, and out of step with the times. Perhaps he will get elected. Who knows. But that's what I think about him and his candidacy. JMHO
Shokk--thanks for re-responding to my comments. I don't necessarily believe in voting based on any of the isms, I vote based on the candidate that I feel will do the best job for our country. Right now I believe that is Obama. But it's early in this process, and who knows, I might change my mind.
Bren--sorry the article was so long LOL and I only posted part of it. Should I limit and post a piece at a time? I'm seriously asking this question and not meaning any offense. I have heard Tim Wise speak, and he is popular, going around the country speaking on college campuses, and for other groups. I met him twice at two conferences I attended on the East Coast. Being a white guy, he is able to get white people to listen to him about race, and they don't get defensive--well some don't. He had an interesting take on restitution for slavery descendants, and he doesn't believe in it. Thinks it's too little too late, and that money would not end the issue about race. On his site, I believe he has an essay related to that. It was an interesting talk and discussion in a room full of people of color & whites, many from the south.
And to add to our discussion: Now, we have the top political strategist in Clinton's campaign resigning! And I guess for many reasons--including his stubbornness and secretness of how he did his job--not wanting to share what he was doing. But I understand that Clinton is said to always be in control of those around her. Don't attack me now, it's just what I have heard. AND this key person in her campaign had a secret meeting with Columbia officials to discuss a type of NAFTA bill to help them--this after Clinton said she wasn't sure NAFTA should be renewed. What's up with that? -
I am the last person to criticize opponents rather than issues, Inna, in fact,you'll find I've said mostly nice things about McCain, while qualifying it by saying I have no intention of voting for him. By contrast all most of you have done is talk about what's wrong with the other candidates. Inna all you've done is criticize Obama, often on misinformation. I haven't heard you say anything positive about the candidate you are supporting- the same for most of the people on the threads.
RM, you're the last person to talk about meanness. You've been meaner to me than anyone else on these boards.
Nobody said the didn't find slavery abhornent, just that people should "get over it" and Shirley minimized slavery in a joking manner.
Obama has worked hard to keep his campaign above the fray as has McCain. I believe that McCain is running an ethical campaign, although I can't say the same for Hillary in light of the most recent information that her top strategist was actually lobbying against her NAFTA policies-- if in fact she means what she says when she says she's against it. How could she not have known about that before the media found that info.
What do people think about the reports that Condy is campaigning behind the scenes for the Veep job?
I don't believe it for one thing and if it is true I don't think she's be the best person for the job. She's tied too closely to bush and his 32% approval rating, she's been a horrible secretary of state, falling too unline with the undiplomatic ways of Bush and she has the same areas of strength as McCain. I heard some commentators say she would take care of the "black and woman" demographics the way Obama and Hillary would-- but I think that's insulting to all 3 of them.
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Did I miss something? I went back over the thread, and it looked like Amy made the Alzheimer's comment about Heston, not McCain.
Those who saw Michael Moore's film "Bowling for Colombine," he interviewed Heston, and from that it was obvious that he was failing in some way. Wasn't it Alzheimers?
So, Amy, clarify--Heston you were referring to, or? -
No, Amy, I just call you out when you are playing mean. You started bashing me and my views way back on the Jena 6 stuff and also when I posted about financial hardships for me. Re-read things Amy. Maybe you should read all the pms from people too afraid to call you out on stuff for fear you treat them like you do me. I just hate how you attack everyone who disagrees with you.
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