And another one bites the dust....
Comments
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OMG, y'all, my "loving man," J, has turned out to be yet ANOTHER emotionally immature and unavailable coward! Yes, yet another asshole from that huge community of mostly assholes called "men"....ugh!
So every weekend, I was staying at his house or he came to mine. Up until 2 weeks ago, it remained blissful. The sex was phenomenal and we dreamily & happily shared food, music, good conversation and all of our daily activities. Then it suddenly changed and he became irritable over everything. It was like he was suddenly PMS-ing. He even shouted at me during a conversation about religion, swearing that he knew better than I about the Catholic belief in the Trinity. Since he isn't Catholic and I am (and have not only had 18 years of Catholic education, but have taught Catholic doctrine), I knew that he was fabricating, but I let it go. Still, that was my first clue that he was insecure and defensive and prone to SHOUTING (I swear to you all that this is the first time, as an adult, that I've been shouted at....it felt uniquely bizarre!). So another week passes. He comes to stay over on Friday night and around 11pm, puts his shoes on and announces that he feels "in the way" (we were sitting watching TV after making and enjoying pizza together). So he leaves and drives an hour to his home. Oy. Okay...the next day, I go to his place and he's really crabby. During a quiet time, he reveals that his ex-wife had showed up out of the blue on Thursday. He claims that he hasn't seen her in six years since their divorce. Alright then, I'm sympathetic and try to be sensitive and understanding. He shouts at me AGAIN during a conversation about my daughter, and he says.....hold onto your wigs, y'all...."I'll put my IQ up against your daughter's anyday." WTF??????!!!!!
I just walked out of the kitchen. The next day he was again crabby and downright rude and I finally packed up and left.I didn't want to hear from him during tha week and I didn't until Wednesday when he left a voice mail asking if I was enjoying my evening of leisure (I'm off from aerobics on Weds.). I saw it was him and let that go to vm. So I sent an email telling him that I am confused about his behavior and don't know how to proceed. He wrote back that he is experiencing fear and would write more when he thought it through. The next email was short and he simply claimed o be a "butt head" and to have treated me poorly. He apologized. Said if I "wanted to continue with him" we should talk. I wrote back that I am willing to give it a try but don't intend to be criticized or treated badly. And that, my chicas, was the last communication! Mr. Straightforward (his online profile claims that he is just that) has nothing to say! So he cowers and slinks off! Just like the last guy I dated from online....remember him? The guy with the 2 Purple Hearts from Vietnam who couldn't tell me straight out that a woman from his past had re-surfaced and he wanted to commit to her? So what did HE do? Also went silent and slinked off (with my comforter if you'll recall!). WHAT IS EFFING WRONG WITH MEN...SERIOUSLY????????????
What is my plan, you ask? I am jumping right back in the pool! Yep, I'm absolutely determined NOT to let the glut of shitheads out there cloud my vision! So, even though 99% of the male population seem to be sniveling, weak cowards, I just KNOW that finding someone in that rare 1% will be ultimately worth it. So it's back to Plenty of Fish. It's a good thing that I enjoy a challenge, huh?
To be continued.........
~Marin
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Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwww..........(((Marin)))
WTF??? I swear, there are so few good/normal/decent/mature men
out there and I think those few are already taken!
Do what ya gotta do, Girl! Who needs that kind of crap? Like you have the time and patience for his 'issues'??? I'm SO sorry that Mr. Wonderful wasn't! His loss for sure. Onward and upward!
The last guy I 'dated' (and we were exclusive) just up and disappeared. He never returned any of my phone calls so on the last one I called him an asshole. I know, not very mature on my part, but I do feel better! He, too, stated that being "honest" about one's feelings was important. I will no longer be exclusive as there is no reason for me to be. I like them knowing I'm busy 'doing' other 'things'!
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marin i am so sorry he turned out to be someone different than you thought- men are such assholes sometimes (alot of the times! )
i always believe when they come on so strong at the beginning be wary - then their true colors come out a bit later
you are an amazing woman and deserve to be treated as one
no one! especially your man should be verbally abusive to you
i also think men are primarily babies and need so much ego stroking- they get jealous of ridiculous things (like our children)
you are a strong woman like me with a very full life and some men get threatened by that - i am sure we will be hearing another exciting love story from you quite soon! any man will be lucky to have you
xoxox
julia
p.s i always jump right back in to the pool too! best way to bounce back
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Hi Marin -- I wrote a whole post but I guess I didn't hit the "submit" button like I thought I did...
Hmm... I guess J. couldn't hit your "submit" button like he thought he could!!!!!!!!!
I'm so sorry he's done the Jekyll and Hyde act, followed by the disappearing act, with a hint of the resurrected ex refrain...
@...
(my on-again/off-again sort-of BF was really on for the past two weekends and then suddenly off in a way that's really pi$$ing me off, too)
so,
hugs to you,
stay as strong and as sweet and as smart as you are!
xoxox
Ann
P.S. Maybe I got distracted before submitting my original comment because the whole Trinity/Catholic doctrine thing had me shaking my head! And then I was trying to remember the Nicene Creed from my Catholic-school girlhood ("I believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible...")
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Hi Marin,
Sorry about the dip. You are better off w/o him. I got one of the good ones. I almost threw him away because he was so different. After dating a##holes for years, here came this man I meet after going through bone cancer and losing my right jaw which was partially reconstructed. I met him in a dive class he was helping teach.
He was so complimentary and sweet, I thought something was wrong with him. I almost broke up. Then I thought, this guy is funny, kind, sweet and so nice. Why??? Well, this May we will have been married 17 years! Stuck with me all the way through BC.
Hang in there. The good ones are out there. Glad I caught and kept mine.
PS Sex??? What is that?
Debbie
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Well, I don't believe that 99 percent of us men are a holes..............lol. It seems that way I am sure at times. I know that my friend whom has bc , had issues with my actions from time to time but I am not sure I will ever understand why. Case and poinnt. One night we went to a party (Christmas) and my gf (now friend) and I (along with another man) were on the same team. We were sitting at the counter top where six stools were. She sat in such a way that her foot was about eight inches from his crotch. Her foot rested on a one of those bars connecting the legs. Well, after ten minutes of that I turned her stool so that her body moved and she had to move her foot. Post evening I found out that this man was married to one of the gals at the party and was a long time friend of hers. I said, so what. I felt that it was inappropriate for to out her foot so close to his crotch. I felt very upset about that and we never did see eye to eye on that. She said, well I didn't think anything of it. I said, well you don't understand men then. Ladies, one of the reasons that my friend and I are now just friend is simply this. I, as a man, feel that when I am emotionally committed to a woman then it's my "need" to protect our space as a couple. I felt , and have often felt during my dating of this friend, that she disregarded our space and that her statement " as long as others know you are with me what difference does it make". She said she is drinking and doesn't realize that she was doing that . Can't tell you how many times we have had conflict in terms of the aforementioned differences of social interaction. When I said to her, if I place my foot eight inches from another womans crotch would that bother you? She said, no. So needless to say I feel much more comfy in terms of her and I being friends. This way I understand the limitations of my expectations..................Sad because I am not insecure in any means. I am confident and a decent looking muscular fit man for 46. I just have a different idea of what should and should not happen in terms of safeguarding space in a intimate relationship.
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Marin, am so disappointed for you, he sounded so good. I guess it just takes time to really get to know what they are really like. Hope you do well at Plenty of fish and let us all know how it turns out for you.
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I am so sorry, Marin. He sounded so good. Clearly, his change in behavior must be related to his ex-wife showing up. JMHO, it sounds to me like seeing her again messed something up in his head. He either decided he wants her back and that is why he treated you so badly. Or, seeing her again scared him about making any kind of commitment and he decided he would sabotage your relationship so that you would leave him. Either way, it sucks. I am glad you are back in the pool. There has to be a decent guy out there looking for you.
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Oh, forgot to add about the ex-wife....he claims that she became severely clinically depressed during the final years of their marriage and the relationship got very painful for him. Now, six years later, he said she came by to argue about money for their son's tuition. She's now in a lesbian relationship, so I'm pretty sure he's not thinking about reconciling. I'm thinking that he's still very messed up about the failed marriage and just can't get past it. Also his mother died last year and he apparently had a rough relationship with not only her but his whole family. All in all, he's just messed up.
Frankly, I'm a bit disappointed and upset with myself for not having detected his mental instability sooner. Sometimes I'm just unrealistically optimistic and just plain naive!
I also want to add, for any of you women reading this who avoids dating after BC because you feel like "damaged goods," lemme tell ya that WE are AWESOME GOODS- strong and rich in wisdom and personality. I'm finding that it's the men, instead, who are the damaged goods. Boo-yah!
~Marin
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So true, Marin - we ARE deserving of great things! I think women, more than men, see past/through things and then we get blindsided when men leave, for whatever reason they do or don't give.
Unfortunately (?) time and BC have made me more practical in my thinking about relationships - it's all about me and what I want as I have nothing 'extra' to give at this time - so I date (mostly younger)men who want what I want, something casual and friendship-like. It's not really what I want but it's what works for now.
Good luck with POF. I'm happy with AFF - they're mostly real there, although that's where I met the last one.....
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OK, late breaking news, girls. J called a little while ago. Acted like nothing had transpired until I (of course) mentioned my last email and asked if he had a response. He tried to say something along the lines of being "who he is" and actually quoted Popeye (I kid you not!), saying "I am what I am", blah, blah, blah. I responded that that might be, but I know what I need and want and it may not be THAT (what he is). It was getting convoluted (now there's a surprise, huh?) so I said we shouldn't discuss it on the phone and he agreed. I offered next weekend...I want to give myself some time to think a bit more and get my head screwed on right & tight, ya know. He said he called in case I was thinking he wasn't responding to me. I said that's exactly what I was thinking. He also said he thinks we should try.
Now I'm confused again! Not about what I want, but about whether I should try to find something with THIS man. I mean, is this how I can expect ALL relationships with older adult men (who have all the baggage! I totally agree, BTW, Jaybird, that younger men are so much "cleaner") to be? I know that we can't change anyone, but this guy WILL have to try and change if outbursts and shouting are his typical response to even intellectual differences of opinion. I don't know, my chicas.....any views or ideas? I don't want to be close-minded and close-hearted, but I don't want to be a fool & a pushover, ya know?
~Marin
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woo-eee. Nothing like a few complications, huh? I would see what his reaction is to laying down some ground rules. Like when he is feeling stressed by other forces in his life and he needs to lash out, that he go outside on the deck to use his "outside voice" and not at you! Find out if the two of you can develop a "hold it!" word or motion between you that signals a time-out when a silly disagreement needs to turn into an agreement-to-disagree rather than escalating into insults and shouting. One longtime BF and I had the nose side-swipe signal from the film The Sting - does anyone remember that? It just meant we had to stop. We could pick it up later, but one of us felt it was getting ugly fast.
I'm suggesting these coping tools for two reasons:
1 - it will let you see if he's willing to work on it
2 - he's not likely to change overnight from his habits of irritablilty and defensiveness, but this might help get you through
Just a couple thoughts, since the sex is really good.
Lisa
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Well, I deleted my first response. I felt that it didn't fit in this thread. I believe that in order for somebody to change a coping mechanism (right or wrong here is not important) then a substitute coping skill needs to be readily available. That is something that needs to be learned and that will take some time. As far as baggage? We all have our issues and we all have learned to cope with our issues in different ways. Some of these coping mechanisms are healthy and some are not.
As a man I would think that taking a break would be good for you and in particular for your guy. He may be feeling mixed emotions and so he may need some time to work them out. This will give you time to consider the over all picture of your relationship with this man. Personally, I am not sure I will ever get remarried. I like the idea of being able to leave if and when I find myself unhappy in a relationship. If I don't have to deal with the legal crap then that is all the better. That is what I think but hey...........we all think we have all the answers and many of do but lots of us don't. I maybe one of the latter. Hope all works out for you.
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This man sounds like a piece of work. Surely not anyone whom you could count on.
That you would consider rethinking your first post tells me you need to take a step back and examine the reasons why you want to be with a man who is capable of disrespect and has anger issues.
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Not sure this relates but I'll go anyway.
Had a great courtship, great guy, getting married. Had to rush our wedding for various reasons, including his rotation schedule.
After the rehersal dinner, he calls, cussing a BLUE streak!! I'd never heard him like this in the 10 mos we'd been together. He'd been locked out of his residence room by another guy. He was really pissed.
I thought it was just a one time thing but after 30 years of rages, he finally sought counseling and found some reasons for his anger and quit the rages.
What you see is what you're gonna get, IMO. Sure give his some more chances, but beware. People don't change without some changes being made, if he needs a tune up, let him get one, just don't put up with the shouting, etc. -
Marin, I'm with Dotti - a leopard doesn't change its spots. I occasionally see a guy (as only a friend now) who acts 'normal' and then acts 'weird' (I swear he needs meds or if he does take something he doesn't take it regularly) and this has been his pattern for over 4 years now. It's aggravating but that's him and we get along fine when he's not saying weird shit otherwise I shake my head and wonder what is up with him.
So, advice from me: move on. You deserve something better.
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Hey Marin,
I like the WYSIWYG advice. I too wanted to save relationships that started out great, then true colors came out, and I started doing my best to try to find ways to fix it! Are you willing spend forever trying to fix something that has nothing to do with you?
Also, categorizing men and their personality types or possible deficiencies by age is kind've risky. Everybody has issues. Even the young ones. This man swept you off your feet and eventually as time goes by, we begin to learn more and more about the person we are with.
Now that I'm old and have made the same mistakes a few times, I'm trying to live by the old adage "fool me once .. shame on you, fool me twice ... shame on me." You can decide to give him another try. If his behavior is unacceptable at any point .. walk away.
Trying to put him in a young versus old category just won't help. He's an individual ... and the question is do you want to check him out further or walk away at this point?
Sucks doesn't it.
Bren
PS - You have every RIGHT to lay down the ground rules of what you will and will not accept (shouting, etc.)
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That sucks Marin.
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Marin is he possibly bi-polar, he seemed so perfect, calm, patient, caring the whole shebang and then boom, arguing about catholic religion and then wig remark and the comment about your daughter. I'm glad your a strong women, but if a stressor like his wife turning up makes me wonder, how will he take other stressors in his life, gosh I wish there was a web site out there for rating men you've met online. No matter stay strong and best of luck. Pearl
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Pearl....It's great to see you! Where the hell have you been?
Thanks to all of you who weighed in here on my issue. I'm trying to digest all that you've suggested and advised and I can say that I'm feeling alot clearer on the tact I'll be taking. I'm certainly not kicking J. to the curb right off the bat. What we had begun to develop had had much promise....or so I thought. The shouting, though, will have to be addressed. He knows that I spent 28 years married to a rage-aholic, but what I never thought it important to note was that my ex-husband raged against the world, the broken plumbing, cutting his face shaving, even the dog if she messed up the house, but NEVER at ME. I hated his constant yelling and pounding the walls and have enjoyed blissful silence for the four years since I left him. But I never felt threatened or verbally abused by him. With J., I waver between feeling attacked to wanting to laugh out loud at the absurdity of screaming over such matters. It just strikes me as so silly and childish. Anyway, we will be talking next Saturday and I plan to be clear about the fact that I'm seeking a life and a relationship characterized by positivity, mutual nourishment and growth and NOT by drama and negativity. If he can't find his way towards that place of support and reciprocity, then it's absolutely over. Even if he claims that he can, I'm going to be vigilant and not waste my time policing his behavior and attitude. I'm done with that crap. I do like the idea of agreeing on a way to stop and/or exit the situation if he feels he needs to be crazy and I want out. The "nose swipe" idea, Lisa, sounds plausible. If he is even borderline bipolar, as Pearl suggests, though, I'm not sure if he'll have enough self-awareness and control in the heat o the moment to be able to work with that ploy. We shall see....
But thank you, my friends. If anyone has further thoughts, please don't hesitate to post them. I'll be thinking about this throughout the week in preparation for Saturday.
(And, btw, mailman, thanks for your input too....it's always valuable to hear a viewpoint from an inhabitant of Mars
!)~Marin
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marin i think you have a great plan and obviously from all your posts a great head on your shoulders and you are intuitive and think things out
i know you will do the right thing whatever it is
lots of support xoxox
julia
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You're more patient than I am. I wouldn't give him the face to face.
He ignored an important question and then carried on as if nothing was up.
My BS Tolerance Threshold is set really low.
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I have to chime in, too.... If it's too good to be true, then it isn't. As a fifty-one year old single woman, it's tough meeting decent men. I have gotten pretty good at figuring out really quick about what these guys are about; and cutting the relationship short. BUT, the problem is, if you enjoy the company of a man, you'll be alone most of the time. sigh.....
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I'm really sorry Marin that things with J have turned ugly.
It so reminds me of what a close girl-friend is going through, with a guy 30 years her junior.(So no baggage there!) She met him on NYE and within a week they were seeing each other every day and he is telling her he loves her.So compatible,she thought, despite the big age difference. Then he gets offended about some trivial thing ( 'I feel in the way' was just what he said) and then a couple of days later he gets mad because she went out for the evening with her son and his girl-friend and she didn't call him.WTF? He said he would call her and didn't do so til midnight and expects her to just sit there waiting for him?
Well to cut a long story short......she has been through several more of these episodes, despite him apologising profusely and trying other strategies - he still does it.She is still seeing him.....but in between she acknowledges his weird Jekyl and Hyde behavior and says that it is doing her no good.Somehow she can't break away, and that shows how low her self-esteem is.
I don't get that feeling from you - you are not going to let some guy treat you this way.You (and she) deserve way better.
Marin, I am basically saying what the others have said; now you have seen his true colors,you have seen the man. Actions speak louder than words.It does also seem to be that when such intensity is reached very early on in the relationship, that things do often go awry.
Wishing you all the best.
Sam
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i just want to stick my 2 sense in from my personal experience
a leopard NEVER changes his spots- i met my ex husband not too long after my first husband had passed away from a long battle with cancer (he was only 31) my ex was supposedly getting out of his marriage with wife and 2 kids- i had 1 daughter too
well as i found out he had been married briefly several times before - he was charming and good looking (and a therapist- thus he had great communication skills) but he was a liar and a cheater and self absorbed- i saw all this too late but should have seen the signs and red flags right away- i got pregnant and didnt want to raise another daughter alone so i stayed in the marriage for about 10 yrs
he cheated his way thru as he did his other marriages and when i finally found out everything i left him (but not before he had me invest all my money of my own in a business he had wanted to start) all along he promised me and our family the world so I bought into it all- tough lesson learned- hundreds of thousands of dollars gone- no more savings and NO more husband (but happily dating a great guy now) He is of course married again to a multi millionaire woman and living the good life and conning her)
again i believe A Leopard NEVER changes his spots!!!
just try to be aware of the red flags that you see and do NOT ignore them they are real
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jdash -- to borrow a phrase from Traci's moan and groan thread -- that SUCKS -- but I'm glad you're dating a great guy now.
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I'd move on, Marin. If he's already acting like this and you're basically in your 'honeymoon" period of the relationship....well, you know what I'm saying. Don't let him screw with your head.
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Marin, I have NO idea how I got here. But I'm here.
I've been married for, let me count, let's see..from 1965 and will be celebrating our anniversary on April Fool's day..which will be 2008..2008 minus 1965 = 43 years, right? Geez, I feel old. Anyway, I've got one of those loud husbands. But that's another story. He's not abusive, he's just right..but no, I'M RIGHT. LOL
I feel like I'm listening to my daughter reading your posts. She's 38 and has never been married. She's met some "gentlemen" online. I don't know what age your guys are, but just because they're "young" doesn't mean they don't have baggage. Bless her heart, she thinks she's found a nice guy and then WHAMO they're jerks. Or is it they're just mixed up..messed up...screwed up..?
I do know there are nice men out there. Sensitive men. One think I tell my daughter is you will NEVER find anyone who is perfect. Now, I don't mean she should compromise what she wants, and surely shouldn't be with a control freak or someone who emotionally or physically abuses her. I don't think I'll have to worry about that since she used to work with abused women.
Relationships are tough. It takes a lot of hard work. At my age forget it. I don't have the energy to work that hard! Oh, I almost forgot, I still have a husband.
I seriously do not know what to tell you. I do know that it has to be up to YOU. Just like with my daughter. She shares all that is going on, and sometimes I have another perspective, and sometimes it's not so good. Foor instance. This one guy wanted an exclusive relationship after ONLY TWO WEEKS! She agreed because she's not comfortable dating more than one man. Silly, huh? What would I know..been toooo long. But she liked the guy. But, there's another BUT. She sould not have sex with him right away. In fact, never did. She has a rule about sex which I cannot remember. Anyway, I told her that he wanted an exclusive relationship with her BECAUSE he WANTED sex! You know, exclusive means something to some women. I didn't tell her that until he strated acting "wierd." Like, not available..too busy..too many excuses. She finally confronted him about his not being available. Oh, excuses..like he had not gotten over his last girlfriend. She then realized, after I brought up the "exclusive" dating thing that I was probably right...he wanted to get her into bed.
I'm not saying this is what your man wanted. It seems you've been with him for quite some time. Why not ask him if he thinks a little counseling would help him. Of course some men do not take kindly to be thought of as "crazy." Some don't understand that counseling doesn't = crazy. Or weakness. I KNOW my dh wouldn't considering sitting with a shrink.
Just my two cents and know it's not worth much. It's just that I've seen my daughter in and out of relationships (plus a friend of mine who is my age..bless her heart). I really think she's ready to settle down, but not compromise as far as immature, hateful men.
Good luck, Marin.
Shirley
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LOL...Shirley, you always make me laugh. And in between the laughs, you have some wonderful advice for Marin.
Marin, I was thinking about your situation this afternoon while I was driving around doing errands. I know you don't want to give up on him yet..the sex is good and it is fun having somebody in your life. I sure understand that. So disregard what I said earlier...but keep your eyes wide open and do not take any guff from him if you decide to give it another go around.
either that or you could just use him for a booty call when needed, since he's good at that part.
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LOL at Shirley (in a good way)!
I stand by my opinion. Great sex is, well, great but for a mature man to act so immature (IMO) is not so great and a big red flag. Proceed with caution Marin. (like I'm an expert or something?)
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