Presidential debates on ABC right now-both parties

Right again Joan.  I couldn't find anything that you said to disagree with....especially the baby puke, baking cookies and house full of rug rats.

I've gotten the McCain itch too. 

Jon Stewart said on his show that the country's interest in both McCain and Obama says that finally we are on the way to (I forget the word he used for it....cleaver and all) but we are ready as a country to clean up the mess....and move away from mechanic politics.  I agree.

I'm not yet decided...I want to hear more....but I surprised myself that I even thought to McCain.  I thought he was suppressed too much by the machine before...maybe it took him to live through these last seven years of The World According to Bush/Cheney to find his own voice.

I want to know, though, that it is more than a stump speech voice. 

Last August my DH had surgery on his eye.  Back in his room (with five other men) he recovered and spent the night.  The man across from him worked here in Rome for the government...the budget issues.  We were talking about the election (he wanted to practice his English).  I told him then that I didn't like Hillary and didn't trust her....never did.  I told him that if she got elected it wouldn't be any different than when Bush was elected...the populace making a knee jerk reaction instead of careful, critical thinking.

I told him that America was more than that and that I wanted to see it rise to the occasion.  I couldn't stand to have my heart broken twice in such a short time. 

We mused about Obama...I said that he had interesting backers that caught my attention (pre Oprah) and that I'd look at his record...didn't know much about him....I told him that I like Biden...experience...seasoned.  He said, Biden didn't have the personality...yeh unfortunately that is what sells an election too.  

It was nice to talk to someone from another country who was interested in our country getting back to "normal".  How many americans know as much about the world beyond themselves I thought.  We lived a sheltered life in the US.  

Ann Coulter campaigning for Hillary--- if that happens we will know the apocolypse is upon us and the world as we know it is coming to an end-- rofl. The very idea is the makings of a saturday night live skit, were the writers not on strike.

Allowing tax cuts for the rich to expire is the only responsible thing the government can do-- Bush was (even more) moronic (than usual) by thinking cutting taxes during a war was a good idea. I thought republicans were supposed to be the ones who were fiscally conservative, yet they're the ones who unbalanced the budget. I believe that the deficiet is  one of the reasons we're in a recession, at some point it catches up.

I agree that if Hillary wins there will be more polarization, she tried to polarize the democratic party until she got her hands slapped and realized it wasn't working. If not for her personality, I think she could be an effective president, but as commander in chief she has to be able to work with others in this country and abroad by not alienating them with passive aggressive insults.

NNN-- McCain will find oSama not oBama-- hehe. Why do you keep changing your name, it's confusing me ?

While there are things I like about MCain, his recent support of antigay lesgislation and the fact that he's using this in push ads makes me so irate. It's a deal breaker for me.

I'm nervous about Tuesday- nervous but excited.

Does anyone think it's possible the republicans who are not satisfied with McCain would launch a 3rd party candidate like when Buchanan ran years back?

I have been following McCain since he ran against Bush, the first time. I thought he got a bad deal then, but the way our primaries work, the dems put up someone very liberal, the repubs put up someone very conservative and the independents elect the president. That is why I am so excited this year that all the states who will vote next week will finally get their input. Usually, everything is decided by now, and our votes don't really count. This year they do. I am glad to see so many of you looking in all directions. The worst thing we can do is vote for one issue. I know too many people who only vote pro-choice or vice versa. Roe V Wade will not be overturned because no one really wants to fight that again, so we need to look at the bigger issues. Yes, Bush screwed up this war with terrible lack of foresight, but I still think he did the right thing for this reason: I saw a women's forum on CSPan right after the invasion with Iraqi women and American women in Washington. I was so moved by the Iraqi women talking about how much their had been oppressed under Sadam, were not allowed to educate their daughters, were not allowed to have their own dreams. One of the woman, a doctor who was not allowed to practice, was later murdered because she was working so hard to make life better for women in her country. These brave woman were willing to lay down their lives so that their daughters might have a chance to realize their dreams. To me, this is just like what happened during our civil war. Most peope hated Lincoln, so much so that he was murdered and many cheered. The numbers of men who died every day was horrendous, but he really felt that he was doing the right thing for the future of the US. It took many years for people to appreciate what he did. He kept our country together and freed us from that horrible cancer of slavery. I know people will be furious to hear me say this, but I think Bush will eventually be looked upon as someone who changed the middle east for the better. Yes, it is horrible how many have died, but once people have a taste of freedom, there is no going back. The women of the middle east will continue to fight for their freedom. Look at how we have always left a place better off after a war. What other country can encourage a Japan or Germany to put violence aside and become a world power? I am so proud of our young people, who today, are putting their lives out their to make this world a better place. My uncles came back from VietNam to a screwed up world who spit on them, and ended up dead by age 30 because they could not deal with it. Our soldiers today have made a difference. We all want them home as soon as possible, but they are doing a great job, and they need to finish it so they will feel like the heroes they truly are.

The day we pull out our troops with a stable Iraq will be a defining day in US history. The middle east will look upon us as a country who is willing to give up our treasure and our young people to make the world a better place. People can say all they want that this is about oil, but think of this:

if we have a democratic middle east, where the people there actually prosper from oil profits instead of just their despotic leaders, wouldn't that be great?

Sorry to ramble, but my point is, McCain will not pull out until we get the job done there, and it is so important that we do not look like cowards as we did in Nam. Not only will our country look better, our military families will not suffer the way mine did when my uncles came home, but never came back to us. 

Get the job done???? Who's job? Who's responsibility? I strongly reject the idea that pulling out is surrending or "abandoning the mission" as McCain likes to say. As far as I'm concerned that's total BS.  The USA is a citizen of the world, not the ruler or keeper of the world. One of the reasons so many other countries hate our government is because we're always sticking our nose in the governments of others-- particularly when it seems politically to our advantage. The bush administration concocted this whole idea of a "war on terror" as an excuse to act like bullies. If anything we brought al quaeda to Iraq and caused more hatred and put our country more at risk for future terrorism.

I believe by FINALLY pulling out of Nam we cut our losses. I'm not saying there should never be war or that some people in Iraq might be better off now. That's really not the issue to me. There are a lot of areas in the world like Darfur where people could use the help.

I was in favor of going into Afghanistan to go after Osama ( NNN hehe). The idea of diplomacy is to make more allies, not fewer and our next president is going to have to extend a lot of olive branches over the damage the shrub did to our respect in the international community.

The people of the USA have an opportunity to exercise their constitutional rights and bring the country toward a new direction. When the democrats took over congress it was a start, but there wasn't enough of a majority to override Bush. While I do think that a mix of democrats and republician control can be really positive, we don't know that the dems are going to keep control of the senate with the third who are up for reelection and all of the house is up so we don't know what that will bring about either. I would like to see a democratic president and house of representatives and would deal with a republican senate if it happened that way.

I wish the democrats and independents who are leaning toward McCain would keep in mind the appointment of new justices to the supreme court because there are several justices of retirement age. McCain said that Sandra Day O'Conner was NOT a good appointment because she wasn't antichoice and she was too liberal. Our rights as women might be further limited by McCain's appointment of justices who usually stick around for a long time because it's a lifetime appointment. I know not many people care about gay issues the way I do or aren't personally touched by them-- but a McCain presidency will push our rights even further backward, not forward.

I've heard there are some vets against McCain.  I haven't done any research into that yet.  But I've often heard how he turned down the chance to come home while being a POW in Nam. 

No one can tell me that this man wouldn't do everything he could possibly do for the men in Iraq or Afghanistan.  Perhaps he knows WE SHOULD HAVE WON the war in Nam.  All that he suffered, and for what.  All the the vets suffered in Nam, for what.  Our government couldn't even take care of these men.  I know McCain will.

And, of course, Amy, I cannot understand your so needing someone in office that will give you the rights you so want because I am not gay.  However, I do have some priorities I would like to see done, but for now the security of this nation is the most important thing to me. 

The cowards, as many of you know, are now putting bombs on mentally retarded women.  I believe they said the women had Downs Syndrome.  What do you think will happen to these people if we leave them now?  Even if you were not in favor of this war, how can we leave these people?  I hate that our men and women have died over there.  I hate the billions we have sunk into this war.  But I would hate even worse the visions in my mind of the horrible torture many would go through by our country backing out of a war that we started.  Do you really think the rest of the world would think highly of us?  Hell no.   

We have to finish the job and leave Iraq with some sense of freedom, and more than anything else, a safe place to live.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCain#Vietnam_operations

On October 26, 1967, McCain was flying as part of a 20-plane attack against a thermal power plant in central Hanoi, a heavily defended target area that had previously been off-limits to U.S. raids.^[37][38] McCain's A-4 Skyhawk was shot down by a Soviet-made SA-2 anti-aircraft missile^[38] while pulling up after dropping its bombs.^[39] McCain fractured both arms and a leg in being hit and ejecting from his plane.^[40] He nearly drowned after he parachuted into Truc Bach Lake in Hanoi.^[37] After he regained consciousness, a mob gathered around him, spat on him, kicked him and stripped him of his clothing.^[41] Others crushed his shoulder with the butt of a rifle and bayoneted him in his left foot and abdominal area; he was then transported to Hanoi's main prison.^[41] Although McCain was badly wounded, his captors refused to put him in the hospital, deciding he would soon die anyway. They beat and interrogated him, but McCain only offered his name, rank, serial number, and date of birth.^[41] Only when the North Vietnamese discovered that his father was a top admiral did they give him medical care^[41] and announce his capture. At this point, two days after McCain's plane went down, that event and his status as a POW made the front page of The New York Times.^[34]

McCain spent six weeks in a hospital, receiving marginal care, was interviewed by a French television reporter whose report was carried on CBS, and was observed by a variety of North Vietnamese, including the famous General Vo Nguyen Giap. Many of the North Vietnamese observers assumed that he must be part of America's political-military-economic elite.^[41] Now having lost 50 pounds, in a chest cast, and with his hair turned white,^[37] McCain was sent to a prisoner-of-war camp in Hanoi in December 1967, into a cell with two other Americans who did not expect him to live a week (one was Bud Day, a future Medal of Honor recipient); they nursed McCain and kept him alive.^[42] In March 1968, McCain was put into solitary confinement, where he would be for two years.^[41] In July 1968, McCain's father was named Commander-in-Chief, Pacific Command (CINCPAC), stationed in Honolulu and commander of all U.S. forces in the Vietnam theater.^[4] McCain was immediately offered a chance to return home early:^[37]the North Vietnamese wanted a mercy-showing propaganda coup for the outside world, and a message that only privilege mattered that they could use against the other POWs.^[41] McCain turned down the offer of repatriation due to the Code of Conduct of "first in, first out": he would only accept the offer if every man taken in before him was released as well.^[43] McCain's refusal to be released was even remarked upon by North Vietnamese officials to U.S. envoy Averell Harriman at the ongoing Paris Peace Talks.^[37]

In August 1968, a program of vigorous torture methods began on McCain, using rope bindings into painful positions and beatings every two hours, at the same time as he was suffering from dysentery.^[41][37] Teeth and bones were broken again as was McCain's spirit; the beginnings of a suicide attempt was stopped by guards.^[37] After four days of this, McCain signed an anti-American propaganda "confession" that said he was a "black criminal" and an "air pirate",^[37] although he used stilted Communist jargon and ungrammatical language to signal the statement was forced.^[44] He would later write, "I had learned what we all learned over there: Every man has his breaking point. I had reached mine."^[41] His injuries to this day have left him incapable of raising his arms above his head.^[12] His captors tried to force him to sign a second statement, and this time he refused. He received two to three beatings per week because of his continued refusal.^[45]Other American POWs were similarly tortured and maltreated in order to extract "confessions".^[41] On one occasion when McCain was physically coerced to give the names of members of his squadron, he supplied them the names of the Green Bay Packers' offensive line.^[44] On another occasion, a guard surreptitiously loosened McCain's painful rope bindings for a night; when he later saw McCain on Christmas Day, he stood next to McCain and silently drew a cross in the dirt with his foot^[46] (decades later, McCain would relate this Good Samaritan story during his presidential campaigns, as a testament to faith and humanity^[47][48]). McCain refused to meet with various anti-war peace groups coming to Hanoi, such as those led by David Dellinger, Tom Hayden, and Rennie Davis, not wanting to give either them or the North Vietnamese a propaganda victory based on his connection to his father.^[41]

In October 1969, treatment of McCain and the other POWs suddenly improved, after a badly beaten and weakened POW who had been released that summer disclosed to the world press the conditions to which they were being subjected.^[41]In December 1969, McCain was transferred to Hoa Loa Prison, which later became famous via its POW nickname of the "Hanoi Hilton".^[41] McCain continued to refuse to see anti-war groups or journalists sympathetic to the North Vietnamese regime;^[41] to one visitor who did speak with him, McCain later wrote, "I told him I had no remorse about what I did, and that I would do it over again if the same opportunity presented itself."^[41] McCain and other prisoners were moved around to different camps at times, but conditions over the next several years were generally more tolerable than they had been before.^[41]

Altogether McCain was held as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam for five and a half years. The Paris Peace Accords were signed on January 27, 1973, ending direct U.S. involvement in the war, but the Operation Homecomingarrangements for POWs took longer; McCain was finally released from captivity on March 15, 1973,^[49] having been a POW for almost an extra five years due to his refusal to accept the out-of-sequence repatriation offer.^[50

Shirley,



Your signature so befits the end reading of this clip on Senator McCain.



I thank you for posting this, as I have never taken the time to find the true McCain I have long heard of.



Tender

I can't believe that I torture myself every day and continue to read this thread.  I'm so addicted, I'm disgusted with myself.

Hey Joan, Ill be thinking of you when I vote for Hillary this Tuesday.

The statement made by McCain about staying in Iraq for another hundred years was just that..a statment..he didn't mean fighting for another hundred years.  We still have troops in Germany and in Japan and in Korea and other countries in the world.

We have fought for other countries, our men have died, my father was in WWII.  I say how dare they snub their noses at us.  They may not enjoy the freedom they have today if not for the U.S.  War is never popular.  War is never pretty.  War is costly.  People lose their lives including our troops. 

Shirley

You're gonna do that?Fer real?

Well, free country!

(Sorry! I thought Beth's comment was the last, and I was talking to her.)

Must be nice to have someone come in and change your sheets.  Must be nice to be so rich....wouldn't know what to do with Oprah's money..LOL  I wonder how many thread count she uses...the max for sure.

Saluki-- here's McCain on supreme court justices--

Atlanta, Ga. - Sen. John McCain assumed the Republican nominee's mantle Saturday as he crossed the South from Nashville to Birmingham to Atlanta, touting his high-profile endorsements and talking about how he will unify the Republican Party following Tuesday's de facto national primary day.

"I assume that I will get the nomination of the party," McCain told reporters in Nashville, adding that he hoped everything would be decided on Tuesday.

Nationally, McCain is leading his chief competitor in the polls, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, who took much of the day away from campaigning to attend the Utah funeral of the Mormon Church's president, Gordon Hinckley. The latest Gallup Poll shows McCain leading Romney 44 to 24 percent. And a new Washington Post-ABC News poll gives McCain a 48 to 24 percent advantage over Romney.

McCain courted conservatives in the South, reminding voters of his anti-abortion credentials, as well as his fealty to "strict constructionist" judges such as the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, John Roberts, and Associate Justice Samuel Alito.

"I will try to find clones of Alito and Roberts!" McCain told the cheering crowd in Atlanta. "We will have judges serving on the federal bench who do not legislate from the bench!"

Everywhere he went, McCain was sure to mention his endorsements from governors of the three largest states, California, Texas and Florida. And he bagged an endorsement from a former Massachusetts governor, Paul Cellucci, who has repeatedly chosen not to endorse Romney.

In a sign of supreme confidence, McCain will venture into Boston - Romney's home turf - Sunday to watch the Super Bowl and then campaign Monday morning.

He is already looking ahead to what will happen after he wins the nomination, reaching out to conservatives and promising them results in the general election against either Sen. Hillary Clinton or Sen. Barack Obama.

"I believe that the majority of the Republican Party conservatives are convinced that I'm best equipped to lead this country, unify our party and take on the challenge of radical Islamic extremism," he told reporters in Nashville. In Birmingham, he flatly declared: "I'm the most electable."

McCain, who lost the Republican nomination to then Texas-Gov. George W. Bush in 2000, is superstitious, and he did try to dial back a bit of the enthusiasm at one point.

"I hope I'm not too confident about Tuesday," he said, when asked about his words. "I'm guardedly optimistic. I think we're doing well and feeling a sense of momentum. We're not taking anything for granted."

Still, McCain has repeatedly talked in the last couple of days about the importance of uniting the GOP in order to win in November.

"I've got to work hard to get as much of the party as I can, because we have an uphill battle for November," he said. "Look at the numbers of people who say Democrats do a better job at a, b, c, d, and e."

 I'll wait too!!!!!

Puppy

I'm glad you never had to worry about your 12 - 13 or 14 year old becomming pregnant-- possibly by rape or incest. No child (or adult) should be forced to carry her abuser's child. Even "consentual" sex at that age is way way to young. I had a friend who was pregnant at 11 from her mother's boyfriend and gave birth. The girl never even knew she was pregnant until she was in labor--a 36 hr labor. The baby, given up for adoption would be about 20 today and his birthmother hopes he never tries to find her. She wishes she had an abortion.

Shirley, pro-choice people aren't lurking around, trying to give abortions or force people into having them. Choice means just that-- to stay pregnant or not, to keep the baby or not. Nobody wants abortions to happen-- it's just the lesser of two bad options sometimes.