Presidential debates on ABC right now-both parties

Blundin2005

No No....calma...This was a quote from an Italian journalist.  Actually it ruffled my feathers a bit too before I understood the intent.  They went on to talk about WASP (white anglo saxon protestant) upon which the country was founded and developed.  Kennedy was the first WIC (white Irish Catholic).  They were talking about the spectrum of choice this year. 

Please don't take offense...it was an honest observation....and terms such as these I know would not be used in US.  It really was not the intent to be offensive.

So I take it that no one else noticed the spectrum of choice in this manner?  I'm curious always to see the difference of observations from other cultures. 

saluki

Marilyn--thanks for clearing that up.

Beth--As a Democrat you have touched on several of my concerns about Obama.

The lack of experience in foreign affairs I find particularly troublesome, and although growing up in a foreign country may have given him unique insights, I find some of his views naive.

He thinks he can sit down with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and send him a strong signal--You think Ahmadinejad thinks twice about stabbing you in the back?  That lunatic will smile and do exactly what he wants.

That and some statements made about Musharraf and Pakistan gives me pause.

Beesie

Hillary Clinton's 35 years of experience include:

• As a law student she represented foster children and parents in family court and worked on some of the earliest studies creating legal standards for identifying and protecting abused children.
• Her first job following graduation was as a staff attorney for the Children's Defense Fund.
• She then was one of only two women lawyers on the staff of the House Judiciary Committee considering the impeachment of Richard Nixon.
• Upon moving to Arkansas, she ran a legal aid clinic that handled cases of foster care and child abuse.
• She subsequently was appointed by President Carter to the board of the United States Legal Services Corporation, a federal nonprofit program that funds legal assistance for the poor. 
• Once Bill was governor, she was tapped to lead a task force to improve education in Arkansas through higher standards for schools.
• She served on national boards for the Children's Defense Fund, the Child Care Action Campaign, and the Children's Television Workshop.
• As part of her role within her law firm, Hillary led the American Bar Association's Commission on Women in the Profession, which played a pioneering role in raising awareness of issues like sexual harassment and equal pay (gee, remember Clarence Thomas and Anita Hill?).
• Once she became First Lady, she took to the national and global stage, speaking out against the degradation and abuse of women and positioning that women's rights are human rights.  She was one of only a few international figures at the time who spoke out against the treatment of Afghani women by Islamist fundamentalist Taliban that had seized control of Afghanistan.  One of the programs she helped create was Vital Voices, a U.S. sponsored initiative to promote the participation of international women in their nation's political process.
• She helped create the Adoption and Safe Families Act of 1997.
• She helped designed and champion the State Children's Health Insurance Program, which has provided millions of children with health insurance.
• She helped launch a Medicare Mammography Campaign which encourages older women to get medicare-funded mammograms.
• As Senator, Hillary is an original sponsor of legislation that expanded health benefits to members of the National Guard and Reserves.
• She authored legislation that has been enacted to improve quality and lower the cost of prescription drugs and to protect our food supply from bioterrorism. 
• She sponsored legislation to increase America's commitment to fighting the global HIV/AIDS crisis. 
• She sits on four Senate Committees with a total of eight subcommittee assignments: Senate Committee on Armed Services with three subcommittee assignments, on Airland, on Emerging Threats and Capabilities, and on Readiness and Management Support; Senate Environment and Public Works Committee with three subcommittee assignments on Clean Air, Wetlands, Private Property, and Nuclear Safety, on Fisheries, Wildlife, and Water and on Superfund, Waste Control, and Risk Assessment; the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee, with two subcommittee assignments, on Aging and on Children and Families; and the Senate Special Committee on Aging.
• And more........

As for where the Democratic race is going, it certainly appears that everything is moving in favor of Obama.  As many pundits have recently said, it's difficult for Clinton to campaign against a 'movement'.  I have nothing against Obama; I simply think he's too inexperienced and naive at this stage of his life/career.  More importantly though, the bigger problem for anyone who does not want a Republican back in the White House is that Obama has been untested throughout this campaign.  The media has been hands off.  They simply can't praise him enough and they certainly haven't been digging around for any skeletons in his closet.  And if anyone thinks that what Bill Clinton said about Obama was unfair (and frankly, as Bill Maher said, most of the furor over Bill's comments was a media creation), just wait till the Republicans get their hands on Obama.  I worry that they will rip him to shreds.  He simply hasn't had to defend himself against any mudslinging yet.  And the Republicans don't need to turn off too many people to swing the vote in their favor.  On the other hand, Hillary Clinton has survived years of attacks; there's not likely anything new that the Republicans can dig up on her and even if they do, she's shown that she can withstand it.  And even more interestingly and importantly, despite all the attacks, Clinton is still very strongly supported by those who know her longest and best (the voters of Arkansas).  That says a lot to me about her.  But Obama?  Can he stand the heat?  On a couple of occasions, he's been ruffled with very little provocation.  I worry that he won't be able to stand up to the Republicans.  And as the past two presidential elections have shown, it makes no difference if the attacks are based on fact or not, the damage can be done.   What it all comes down to is that I think Obama will be easier for the Republicans to take down. 

abbadoodles

Romney has just dropped out.

Tina

saluki

Boy Beesie --You are really going against mainstream thinking that is of the opinion that Obama has a better chance against McCain because Hillary is too polarizing. (ex: Joan)

One thing in Hillary's favor from what I gather is the Superdelegate situation and from what I gather makes up 20% .  They would be a big 

factor in a brokered convention.

Maybe you or one of the others canenlighten us on super delegates.

---A big mystery to me.

ADK

I just want to point out that Romney suspended his campaign rather than quit.  By doing this, he holds onto his delegates until the convention.  Edwards did the same thing.  I don't know whether they fancy themselves king makers or not.  Romney probably can't do anything with his delegates, but Edwards certainly can do something with his delegates.

Beesie

Susie, I understand that Hillary is seen by many as being more polarizing.  And I know that many of the polls show that Obama would do better again McCain than Hillary would (though not by much - you can see the results of all the head-to-head comparison polls here: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/national.html). 

I don't disagree with any of that, but my concern is that it doesn't take into account the rigors of a national campaign, and particularly, the campaign tactics of the Republicans.  I know that Karl Rove isn't around anymore, and I sense that McCain may be less inclined towards dirty tactics than Bush was, but still, history shows that the Republicans seem to be better than the Democrats at finding and exploiting the weaknesses of their opposition.  If Obama's background and any potential weaknesses had been more thoroughly examined through the Democratic campaign, if he'd been forced to explain himself better, then I'd feel more confident that he could successfully defend himself once the attacks come.  But he hasn't been tested at all.  And those much more experienced and seasoned than him have not survived the Republican attacks.  

So let's say that after the conventions, Obama starts the Presidental campaign leading McCain by about 2-3 points.  Then let's say that the Republicans or one of their many 'non-affiliated' (yeah, right) groups issues press releases, posts all over the internet and runs ads saying that he did a lot more than dabble with drug as a teenager, he actually sold drugs.  Or maybe they say that he's maintained ties with his Muslim roots to a much greater extent than he claims.  Or maybe it's something to do with the slumlord that he worked for (but only for a few hours) when he was a young lawyer.  Or something else.  Not anything true, but just something that Obama has trouble defending himself against.  Or something that publicly drives him to frustration or anger.  How much would it take to sway 5% of his independent supporters (those who like McCain as well as Obama), either because they believe the lies or don't like how he's responded?   It wouldn't take much.  Remember, in the last presidential campaign the Republicans were able to rile up many Vietnam vets against Kerry, who had served in Vietnam, and instead got them to support Bush, who had skipped out on his National Guard service.  If they can do that, imagine what they can do to Obama.

I simply think Hillary is more immune to this because her backgound doesn't have anything left that hasn't already been attacked. 

saluki

Thanks for the link---Interesting site. I bookmarked it.

FEB

Just a reminder in case you all forgot-The reason Obama did not vote for the war was because he was still duking it out in Springfield, IL with his fellow dems at the time. He has only been a US senator for 3 years. We have 3 parties here-2 are democrats who are always fighting with each other and then the minority tie breakers, the republicans who are actually relevent. Our state budget is a fiasco. Illinois ranks in the top 10 for what we taxpayers pay to the federal government, and our schools are ranked 48th. Our transit system is in total chaos because they cannot come up with a way to fund it. Special education gets cut every year. And while Chicago gets the bulk of the dough, everyone downstate is left with peanuts and the suburban homeowners pay huge amounts in taxes to keep our schools afloat. Are you sure you want a guy from Illinois running things?

By the way, I do watch other news channels regularly-BBC, Cnn and CSpan. I do not watch the networks anymore because they have no credibility. Ever since they made a big deal about the faked letter about Bush's military experience two days before the election, I do not trust them anymore. I also read the French news online all the time because I work with the French and I like to know what is going on there. I do not blame the Europeans for being so anti-american. Their press never has anything positive to say. This has been going on for years, no matter who is president.  They were just as negative about Clinton. I even read one of my French students' American history book, and basically they blamed us for WWII. It said that if America had not been so late in getting involved, maybe so many Frenchmen would not have died! I almost lost my pate on my dear French hosts! I guess they have forgotten about the 40,000 that died on their beaches, saving their butts after they tried to make nice with Hitler. Fascists do not understand peace talks, they just convince people that they will play nice hoping to get enough time to build up enough power to take control. Anyone who believes anything else is just naiive. It is like the bully on the playground. They only pick on those who are weak. They know better than to mess with the guy with the muscles.

And Amy, I really do emphathize with gays, and feel they have a right to their own lifestyle. I also feel they should have the rights of any couple, but I do not understand why you cannot call it a civil union and not marriage. Why do you not see that this is a compromise? Those who feel strongly that the tradition of marriage should not change will be happy and those who want gay rights will have their rights. If marriage is redefined, it will be meaningless. Soon everyone can challenge it and bigamy will have to be made legal, or some nutty guy will be saying he wants the right to marry his dog. Don't you understand the difference?

BethNY

One of the things I like most about Hillary's health care plan is making all medical records electronic.  You'd think in this day and age, we'd already be operating that way, BUT WE'RE NOT!

This will save the country, ready for this?

75 BILLION dollars!!!!

Medical records should be accessible no matter where I am in the US. She's been working on this with (believe it or not) Newt Gingrich for over 2 years, but then the repubs didn't pass it.  It's still high on her list, and if she took office, this change would play a HUGE factor in paying for her 150 billion health plan.

I agree that Hillary doesn't have too much else for people to attack.  What about her life isn't public knowledge? 

And as far as the whole Super delegate thing, which is so confusing, it goes to show that she's got a lot of pull among these so called important votes.

sccruiser

I protest--marriage is meaningless now between heterosexuals!! Look at all the people who get married and divorced at the drop of a hat. We heterosexuals have made marriage meaningless by our actions! We have reduced the word marriage to mean very little in this country.



My sister-in-law and her partner have been together for almost 15 years. They would love to be "married" and have all the rights and privileges that heterosexuals who marry have now. I don't understand why there is so much controversy over this.



Someone please explain to me what would change if gays were allowed to be MARRIED? And given the record of failing heterosexual marriages, I'm certain they would improve the percentages of those who remain married for a long, long time.



It was wonderful to see gays marry a few years ago in San Francisco on Valentines Day. My SIL & her spouse drove to SF that day & were one of many couples who married. I applaud the may of SF for his act of courage. Too bad there aren't more like him in office.



PRAmy, Not sure I understand what you meant when you referred to marriage and civil union. To me civil union means getting married at the courthouse. Marriage to me means a ceremony in a church or with a church official with your friends and family there to celebrate your commitment to each other. And I may not have expressed the importance of reaching equality on this issue, but I do believe it is very important. I hope that the Republican conservatives don't use this as a major issue in their campaign this year. If they do, I hope that every responsible liberal will come forward and vote against any law, state or federal that would change our constitution negatively by preventing gays from marrying their beloved partner.





LindaMemm,

This business of uniting a couple and defining what that is called based on the sex of the two people is so picky and small. Why should a gay couple only be able to be united through a civil ceremony but a heterosexual couple gets to be united using the word marriage and a marrying ceremony? Are we going to spend the next 50 years arguing over two little words--civil & marriage??





As far as the Presidential Campaign, I was watching CNN just now, and they were talking about the ongoing fight for the Demo nomination. Saying that McCain & Republican party will probably have solved their multiple nominees running--and that the Demos will be fighting it out at the convention in August. I'm sure the Republicans hope this happens and if it does that the Demos have never won an election by doing this. With Demo Convention in August, that leaves little time to attack the Republican candidate and have enough time to get Demo voters united and beat Republicans at their own game.



Who will provide the Republicans with more "cannon fodder" --advertising and debate attacks--Obama or Clinton? Will the Demo convention pick the nominee who can best guarantee a win against the Republican nominee? How will the democrats be able to counter the negative attacks on the democratic presidential nominee? I'd really like to hear what people think will happen in this election. And who will Obama lean towards for VP choice? Same for Clinton? Do you think one of them or both will choose Bill Richardson or Biden? Is Edwards vying for a VP spot again w/his delegates?



grace

Anonymous

It seems I'm in the negative here.

Here's my take on Obama if he is elected as prez.  He ends the war too quickly.  We get hit again by terrorists.  We ALL re-unite again.

 We have flags flying on our cars, houses, EVERYWHERE!

Does ANYONE remember 9/11?  Did you all hate Bush so much when he went to ground zero to talk to the workers?  Do you really think he lied to this nation about WMDs?  And if so, why would he do that?

Why do you think Bill Clinton believe there were WMDs.  And Hillary?  And many other congressman and senators who are now backtracking and attacking Bush.  It certainly isn't popular to support the dictator Bush.  Well, I'm gonna tell it like it is.  I like Bush.  I think he's sincere.  He does what he says.  And Saddam didn't believe he was ever going to send in the troops.  OOPS!  Saddam hid in a spider hole.  CHICKEN!  Blame Saddam for the war.

Shirley

I think I need to take a break from this thread.  My input will certainly do no good.

saluki

If you leave Shirley, most of us may as well be talking to ourselves.

I'm not a fan of Bush (voted for Gore)  but I happen to think Obama's

foreign policy ideas are naive and I frankly want to see someone with alot more experience in that area so you see you are not alone.

Personally, I think we need a few more Republicans on this thread.

It never hurts to be aware and open to the views of others. 

JoanofArdmore

Shirley, I was just about to say the same thing.MEGO(My Eyes Glaze Over.)This conversation is booooring, and everyone is repeating their feelings ad nauseum.Everyone including me.But I can't take it any more either.

sccruiser

Oh Shirley and JoanofArdmore please don't leave. How can we continue the conversation?

Are there any other Republicans out there?



I think each of us has a take on what's been happening.



I respect everyone's opinion on this board. I don't think the thread would be interesting if we all thought the same.



I guess I've always been a peacenik. Grew up in the midst of the Vietnam War. Hate to see us repeat that. So sad to see so many countries that are anti-American. Just feel we have a President who can't and won't admit when he's made mistakes. I think he's been led to do what he did by others in his inner circle. I think he's a good old country boy from the South, and he's been bushwhacked by Condi, Cheney, Rumsfeld and a few others.



Can someone explain to me how Chertoff still has a job in Washington after he left FEMA in such a disaster? On the news today he was going on and on about how strange these tornadoes were on Tuesday. Hello! Making comments about the touchdowns and how some houses were safe and others were totally gone. I wanted to hear about what help he was going to provide to these poor people.

It was bizarre.



grace

FEB

I too have said that I am a republican, though I am not totally a conservative, so I hope you don't leave me alone Shirley because I do get the feeling we are being ignored and brushed off as ignorant because we do not have liberal opinions. Why do so many liberals not want to listen to the other side and get nasty when others do not agree? The reason all the lefty talk radio shows never made it was because all they did was rant and rave and never gave any facts. I sometimes listen to Limbaugh, and though I disagree with him a lot, I always learn something from him, and he is funny. 

I too was a peacenik back in the day, but I was too busy working my way through college to join any protests. That was for the rich kids whose parents were paying for their education. I came from the working class, you know the ones whose son's actually had to go to Nam. Like my uncles, who were my heroes. Only one came home. He suffered because of the likes of Hanoi Jane and Kerry, speaking out before congress, accusing soldiers of horrible things. These were young guys sent there because they had no choice. Yes, some of them lost it. Some men have no stomach for war. Today's troops volunteer, and should be given our respect for choosing to serve. We all want them to come home. But they need to come home as heroes not as retreating victims of politics.

The Republicans have been very smart to finally nominate a centrist candidate. If Obama and Clinton continue to pander to the left, they will lose in a landslide. I hope they keep it up. It is the 30% of voters who are independents who really decide the presidency.

I heard on a Chicago radio station today, a guy ran into Obama at the ritzy West Bank Club where everyone with money in Chicago goes to work out. He asked Obama if he would raise taxes. Obama said yes, you make enough money, you can afford to share it with others. This guy said, but why should I start my own business, work hard and give it to the government? I would rather choose who I want to help, which I do. Why do you want to punish those of us who work hard. Obama did not get it. The democrats don't get it. I know that anyone in this country who is physically able can make a good life for themselves because I did it. I resent the government taking our hard earned money. I would rather choose who I want to help.

And one more thing, people here in the midwest tend to stay married more than on the coasts. We do not feel marriage is meaningless here! It is hard enough raising kids in this society. Children need a mother and a father. Yeah, marriage is tough sometimes, but so is life. It is more in vogue to give up easily in other parts of the country. Here, we work it out.

JoanofArdmore

Ah...Linda?

I would never, NEVER brush Shirley off as ignorant for ANY reason!Much less because she "does not have liberal opinions".Shirley and I get along perfectly wonderfully, with our divergent opinions!

Beesie

Susie,

To your earlier question, I found a couple of decent explanations of superdelegates:

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080218/berman

http://www.america.gov/st/elections08-english/2008/February/20080204190330hmnietsua0.9187281.html

Basically, they are Democratic party officials and former & current Democratic governors, senators and congressional reps.  They represent about 20% of the total number of the delegates.  They are free to vote for whomever they please, and while many have publicly declared their support for one candidate or the other, they can change their choice when they vote at the convention.    If the delegate count after the primaries is close between Obama and Clinton, then the superdelegates will be the deciding factor.  But this doesn't mean that they will lead the party in any particular direction.  A superdelegate may be committed to a particular candidate or policy position, or could be swayed by the voting results (choosing to endorse the candidate with the most support of the voting public) or may try to influence the results opposite to how the public have voted (if they feel that the candidate with the most elected delegates has less of a chance to win in a general election).  So it could go any way.

Within the Republican party, the same type of delegate is called an unpledged delegate.  They won't be relevant in this campaign because with Romney out, it's pretty clear that McCain will be able to win without them (or despite them).

Anonymous

Okay, I'm back.  Only just for a moment.  I must go to bed.  Been staying up much too late.  And sleeping in much too late.

Joan, you KNOW how much I love you.  You make me laugh, and sometimes even cry.  You are a REAL person and I respect you for that.

And, Susie, what can I say.  I have learned so much from you.  You have kept us informed about our fur babies when we were all so confused.  You and Joan have taught me so much about "alternatives."  LOL 

Grace, thank you for being so kind.  Even though many of us think so differently when it comes to politics and social issues we still can remain "friends."  I have a friend who, unfortunately, is way, way on the radical right.  I still love her.  I'm a conservative/moderate (is there such a thing?).  Instead of listening to Rush Limbaugh (sp) and learning to use her own brain, I believe she believes and follows all he says.  It's fine to listen to him or any other radio talk show host, but one has to think on their own.  She has told me stuff that she has heard (from where I don't know) about Obama (which as far as I can find is untrue) and believes it.  I have tried to "set her straight."

Linda, thanks for being here. LOL  Like you, I can listen to Rush (who I rarely listen to), and get a laugh or, perhaps, an AH-HUH moment.  However, when I'm in my car I'd rather listen to music.  Or a CD.  I am a music lover.

Ya know, as long as we can agree to disagree without being "bitchy" (yes, I'm a Baptist ...didn't say I was PERFECT) I think we can each learn from each other.  On politics, hmmmm....I don't know.  Thinking about it, I believe we have our minds pretty much made up.  But it is good to listen to both sides. 

Okay, I'm going to bed.  Super Tuesday wore me out.  Romney "checking" out...I have to sleep on that one.  McCain giving his speech to CPAC...I need to hear more of what he said (or read).

Take care and I love you all bc sisters!

Shirley

iodine

FYI: medical records are being put on computers as we speak and have been for the past 4 years.  It's taking a while to reach the smaller doc's offices, but is being done,even in my small town.

I bet the late night comedians really hope Billary wins.  Bill is Bound to dirty up the white house again and be the butt of a LOT of jokes.  It will be a wealth of material for Letterman and Leno!  Hey, maybe Leno will delay his retirement!  I think I'll write and ask him if I vote for Billery, will he stay on, I really don't like Conan.

The only way I can see Hillary winning is if she divorces Bill before the election.  the thought of Bill back in the White House sends chills down my back.

The thought of Obama, well, he is inspirational, and optimitic, refreshing!  But he's not been around pols enough to have earned his chops, has he.  I'm not sure he's been around long enough to really know how to choose a cabinet experienced enough to make up for his inexperience, sad to say.  After all, it's not just one person who makes a presidency, it's the whole group of people who run the country with the information/slant/opinions they provide the president.

That's where Hillary and McCain's experience comes in.  As much as we hate "politicians" and those who "live inside the beltway", those are the ones who really know the score in politics and how to make the system of who owes who, work.  And, that' s what it really is: you scratch my back, I scratch yours.  Cynical, yep, but I'm old enough to have earned that reality. 

NoH8

Linda, Obama spoke out about the war at that point, while in the Illinois senate, even when it wasn't popular or politically correct to say so. Sometimes I think your sole purpose is to  come here and spout faux/fixed news' point of view. Linda the memos about Bush's faked military record were true-- there was just too much of a coverup and too many missing memos to prove it. I agree that CBS jumped on the story too soon, but it had to be told even without all the evidence.

Shirley here's my take if McCain is president-- he doesn't end the war and we get more terrorist because of our insinuation into middle east politics.

Joan- please don't leave-- but if you feel you must, please consider McCain's running mate before voting for him.

Beesie, thanks for the info-- Hillary sure was able to use her opportunities as first lady to her advantage.

I still do not think Hillary is electable. It's one thing to be able to work with republicans in congress, it's a whole other thing to be able to convince republicans other than Ann Coulter (LOL) to vote for her in a general election. I really really hope I'm wrong about this if she is the nominee. I just don't see it happening.

abbadoodles

Anne, I was wondering about the language.  "Suspending" the candidacy.  Thanks for the info.

Tina

PuppyFive

Shirley

the only reason I am not posting, but Lurking, is Because, we have nothing to worry about, If McCain, wins the Country, heck the World

will be a beter place!

in My Eyes, I want a President that will Protect Me and My Family!

I have heared all the Promise that is Flying around many times!

Never do they do anything about them!

I am sure the Next election, we will have a vote on al of the proimises "AGAIN"

For now,  want someone that will stand up and fight the Fight

Not make me a promise that we will be fine, without fighting

and having the Courage to Make us Safe! this is not a Popularity

Win, this is IMO, The Saftey, of Our Country, we are Playing with!

think we have already found out waht happens when we Back Down

"911"

Puppy

NoH8

Go John Mellencamp---

I read this on the tvguide.com site

John Mellencamp has asked presidential wannabe John McCain to cease playing "Our Country" and other songs of his, primarily because the senator's agenda doesn't jive with the singer's. "Are you sure you want to use [John's] music?" a letter from Mellencamp's peeps to McCain reads. "Logic says that the facts might prove to be an embarrassment" - namely that Mellencamp had in fact been backing John Edwards

saluki

Shirley--Judging by all the quotes looks like the Democrats believed as well that there were Weapons of mass destruction.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp

Guess the question is was it an imminent threat?

Tying Sadam to 9/11 is another question.

How we got into this is one matter--but we are in it now and I very much agree with Puppy. 

Anyone notice Iran successfully sent off a rocket this week and is receiving nuclear fuel from Russia for a second plant.

I have a friend married to an Iranian and until this year I really thought she had some common sense until she said to me that Iran really needs atomic generators for their electricity needs----I really could not believe 

anyone could swallow a line like that---truly believe it! -- mind boggling to me.

I find Iran much scarier than I viewed Iraq---This place could hold the world hostage.--add to that the thought of a destabilized Pakistan who already has nuclear weapons.

So, my comfort level is very high with McCain and very low with a novice

like Obama in foreign affairs.

If you think we can just pull out of the middleeast just like that-- dream on. JMHO

PuppyFive

AMEN, Saluki!!

Amy, What

Puppy

NoH8

I think obama has the right idea for foreign policy in that he would talk face to face with for instance the Iranian president. I believe bush is unrealistic thinking he's punishing amadinijan (sp) by not speaking with him--- that arrogance is part of why so many other countries despise the USA. We need our next president to send out a lot of mea culpas to make up for all the damage Bush did to our reputation and until this is done we are at great risk for another terroristic attack IMHO.

katharine

I don't post here because I am a republican.

I think that there is room for intelligent debate. There are posters here who are dyed in the wool dems, but they don't have closed minds and are willing to be civil and discuss matters with smarts and humor. Joanofardmore and saluki seem very fair minded.

Pinkribbonamy, so many times I have wanted to respond to you but I haven't because I don't like fuss. I think you are a good person and your heart is in the right place, but some of the things you come out with are right out of the conspiracy theorist's handbook. I have learned that I can't have a conversation with people who actually believe all the things those people say. So I stay mum.

But, for the record, just this one time:

The president did complete his national guard duty.

There were weapons of mass destruction.

The republicans did not start the swiftboat vets - the swiftboat vets started on their own because they knew John Kerry the best and wanted to make sure the rest of the world knew about his so called valor.

The US owes nothing to the rest of the world- especially "mea culpas"

President Bush did not bring terrorism to Iraq.

9/11 really happened- it was not a controlled explosion set off by Karl Rove

The surge is working and we are winning.

There will be troops in Iraq for years and years. We have had troops in Germany for 60 years.

America is the greatest nation in the world and we should stop slamming it.

People from other country's ought to tone down their rhetoric on a cancer forum

Everything Lindamemm said about everything is dead on.

That will be my only post about this. I rarely post anyway. Pop into chat a lot and read often. But this one time I  had to say something.

peace

Katie

NoH8

The president may have completed his national guard service but how much of that time was he actually THERE and not not off duty??? While he may have technically completed the duty I think it doesn't count because of the special treatment he got allowing for time off that others who were not so connected did not get. Google it.

America is a great place, no matter how much George Bush tried to ruin it-- fake reasons for war, torture, outing CIA operatives who disagree with his policies, alienating many of the countries that used to be our allies, appointing judges that allow for less oversight from the senate, trying to christianize the country, promoting islamic discrimination etc. etc. etc. etc.

Blundin2005

I just had a thought tonight ... isn't it wonderful that we can complain.  I mean....I remember only two years ago that I would have avoided this thread because it was so not important...the only thing that I wanted to know about was how to survive cancer.

I'm glad for all of us...republican, democrat, independent and whatever that we have the luxury to complain...or criticize...or debate...or whatever.

Just a thought...and I'm glad that we are all here together doing just that.