Presidential debates on ABC right now-both parties

PuppyFive

You go Girl!!!

Fox Rules I mean it has been #1 For Years !

Puppy

Anonymous

Aw, another "Foxy" girl!

Anonymous

Just watching McCain on Fox.  I almost forgot his mom was going to be 96 (or was it 93?) years old.  So, he could potentially live long enough to be prez two terms (if he wins).

saluki

I wouldn't assume if McCain were nominated and elected that he'd be a one term president---He has a 95 year old mother that still gets behind the wheel of a car in Paris no less.

saluki

Shirley

Guess we posted at the same time and were thinking the same thing.

She'll be 96 in a few days!

nosurrender

OMG- Obama's speech was awesome.

That man had people in tears.

It ain't over yet.

Joan!  

"YES WE CAN!" 

Looks like Huckabee stole alot of McCain's votes and McCain was hoping he would steal Romney votes.....

I think I heard McCain say

"what the huck???!!!"

Blundin2005

Good morning,

I woke this morning as usual...took Napo out for his walk...and then came in to watch BBC for the election results.  They were just reporting on California.  The NY Times article did not yet show the count on the delegates only the % of votes. 

Joan--love the tee shirt with Woody on it.  Send a pic if you can.  Napo says hello to his pen pal Woody.  

The nightly news here described the importance of Super Tuesday and showed Americans lined up to vote -- The news team was polling people as they came out.  The broadcast is in Italian so most of the Americans interviewed spoke in Italian.

Shirley, as you've said here before, we can agree to disagree.  I strongly dislike  Fox news ever since their coverage of the war in Iraq that resembled a reality TV show rather than news.  Shock and awe didn't work in Iraq either. 

A British friend here recently asked me about it..."What is it?" ....she found it on her Sky channels.  I explained it is what is known as yellow journalism...she nodded "ah yes, like our tabloids in Britain".  I answered, "Exactly".  I added, "It sold the election for Bush effectively--twice, and that is what is really scary."

Fair and balanced if you remove all other views on the spectrum except the extreme right.  We have a similar problem here with Berlusconi....subtle lulling into a state of cozy denial.  This communcation model worked for many other dictators.....regardless of party affiliations.  

During Ceasar's time, they believed it was necessary to retain the need for a dictator during times of crisis....so do the ancient eastern governments upon which the modern day models are built.  In effect, that is what corporate American has become.  

It's natural that it is time to rebalance the equation.

I hope not to be disappointed again like in my youth when Nixon was reelected after the newspapers published the accounts of Watergate.  I went door to door for McGovern when I realized what betrayal was behind the lies of Nixon...my first real adult taste of politics.  I'm older now and understand better the scope of human behaviors.  

American interests can not be uncoupled from the world....population growth, Internet and economic globalization have changed our dependence on each other forever.  It's important now to find leadership that understands this and moves the country forward.  

Let's wait for the count of delegates.

Just received this from a friend

Subject: yes we can

http://www.dipdive.com/
 

NoH8

Susie--- stay away from faux news if you don't want to feel like the free world as we know it is going to come to an end.

Thanks for the lecture linda--we sure never heard any of that on the other stations---  NOT. What makes you think those of us who abhor the biased news on the faux never turn in to check out what they're saying - keep your friends close and your enemies closer LOL.

Shirley, I didn't mean to insult anyone-- I am just so frightened by the prospect of Huckabee trying to insinuate his version of religion into the government and the US constitution as he has  pledged to do. He's at the far, far, far right socially-- not a reflection of the way most christians I know of are-- his views are scary to so many of us who value our reproductive and sexual minority rights. He wanted to put people (primarily gay men at that time) with AIDS in sanitariums a decade after those in the medical community knew and reported that AIDS couldn't be caught through casual contact and that only could be gotten through the exchange of bodily fluids. He doesn't believe in the science evolution and wants to teach the unscientifically proven belief of creationism in schools. If we want to be in the forefront of science, technology and medicine-- which we aren't-- kids need real science. Save the religious classes for church. Not everyone who even believes what he does wants that --- there are many who like the idea of separation of church and state.  I wish Huckabee didn't seem like such a nice guy-- more like Romney so I could dislike him, but he seems genuinely nice except for his views. I think I'd like him if not for that.

As a democrat I fear a McCain/Huckabee ticket, particularly if Hillary is the nominee. I can't see republicans crossing over to vote for her, if anything I think she'll bring out republicans to vote against her.

I guess I feel a little down this morning, that Obama didn't broaden his lead. I was flipping through the channels and am worried about the "superdelegates".  Menendez (I think that's his name) from NJ said earlier that he would vote for Hillary, even if Obama won big because he committed to her a while ago and he thought his constituents would "understand" because he was keeping a promise---- WTF???? I wouldn't understand. I don't like the idea of superdelegates--but then again, I would rather do away with delegates and go by popular vote.

Blundin-- I'm trying to brace myself for possible disappointment. I honestly don't know if I can live here with another republican president who's antigay and antiwomen's rights. I wish canada wasn't so cold!

FEB

Okay, everyone who watches Fox news and is on Fox news is not extreme right. I am actually pro choice and pro gay rights (just don't call it marriage, let's compromise). I voted for dems most of my life, until the Carter era, when he almost ran our country into the ground. Again, if you watch Fox regularly, you would see people giving all sides to the issue. I challenge you to try! Believe it or not, there has been a lot of criticism of Bush on Fox, but the difference is, there are people who also explain his point of view. By getting both sides of the story, not just the viewpoint you want to hear, you can make a better educated decision.

Why is the left so afraid of Huckabee? Clinton was a Baptist, from the same town of Hope, Ark. No one feared him. Carter was a strict southern Baptist also. No one feared him. If there is a separtion of church and state, then why is it that the dems can go to the pulpit and preach to their congregations to back a  candidate, but shame on any republican who does!

We saw Clinton's photo ops every Sunday coming out of Church, but Bush cannot even go because he is called too Christrian. How hippocritical! Everyone has examined Huckabee's and Romney's faith, but no  one questions Obama's. We here in Chicago, see him on stage at his church all the time. His church, if you will look it up, states that it is African first, then American. His church regularly plays hosts to the likes of Louis Farakan, who is unabashedly anti white and one of the founders of the militant muslim brotherhood. Has anything brought more anger between races that this extremist group of bigots.

I can't see Obama bringing us together. If anyone thinks any conservatives will vote for him, it is just wishful thinking. He is ranked as the #1 most liberal senator. That will not get him many votes on the right, and why those of us in the middle will turn to McCain. Right now, he is the darling of the media. There is no one willing to find out who he really is. Obama's honeymoon will eventually end, and his background will finally come out. Either way, the dems have two weak candidates. Don't get too excited about them, because they do not have a chance to win the general election. Remember Gore and Kerry? Liberals do not win elections. Until the dems can become more moderate they will not be chosen to lead. Kennedy, who was a moderate, must be rolling over in his grave. Today, he might even be a republican. After all, it was Kennedy who first came up with tax cuts to bolster the economy and felt America needed to play tough in dealing with communism. Those of us who are old enough, remember diving under our desks for disaster drills, in case we got bombed(as if that would have saved us!). And I also remember my teacher asking us to all bow our heads and pray for Kennedy when we heard he had been shot. This was a public school. No parent made a stink. Imagine if that had happened today!

Anonymous

Im stuck home from a snow storm here in Chicago so I had time to read all the posts.  I feel like I learn so much from what many of your write.  Frequently I will agree with someone and then another gives a different answer and I will agree with that.  I guess Im officially waffling

I think McCain is an ok guy.  He was a prisoner of war and has lots of love for this country.  There is one minor thing that bothers me about him.  His age.  Being 71 y/o scares me a little - nope I guess it scares me alot cause there are so many different possibilities of things that could occur.

Nicki (aka chemosabi)

BethNY

I thought we could all use a laugh at good old W this morning.

File under irony: Bush looks to cut spending by printing fewer copies of budget

Posted Feb 5th 2008 3:30PM by Zac Bissonnette
Filed under: Economic data, Politics

Here's an item that's so laced with irony it defies comment -- I can't come up with a metaphor that does it justice. It's sort of like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic, but it's much, much, much more pathetic.

President Bush's 2009 budget is expected to lead to a deficit of more than $400 billion. But not to worry, our fearless leader has a plan to cut back on spending.

According (subscription required) to the Wall Street Journal, "In years past, the White House's Office of Management and Budget distributed about 3,000 copies of the budget free to media outlets, congressional offices and elsewhere in the capital. This year, those folks must buy a printed copy or access one free online."

Members of Congress can get a copy for $67.50. Ordinary taxpayers hoping to get the details on how their elected officials plan to waste their money and then some will have to pay $213 -- or read it online.

The plan will save taxpayers an estimated $1 million over 5 years.

So $400 billion divided by $200,000... The President has found a way to shave off 1/2,000,000th of the projected deficit for 2009 that will be passed on to future generations.

Keep up the good work!

saluki

I don't think Huckabee stole any McCain votes.   He took from Romney and I don't think McCain minded that. And there were many voters sending a message to their party.

McCain genuinely likes Huckabee and there has been talk, that if McCain becomes the nominee he will help retire Huckabee's debt.

A McCain/Huckabee ticket would certainly go along way to reunite the Republican party.  The dilemma---It would chase away many of the crossover and moderate voters that are McCain's strength.

NoH8

Sus, I kept hearing on the news last night how Huckabee and McCain were old friends. I'd be willing to bet Huckabee is the Veep nominee.

Everyone on faux might not be to the extreme right, but there's no one on the left. Do you also listen to other stations so that you can get the unbrainwashed version of the news-- particularly international news because then you'll know how all of the US media spins things in a pro-usa way.

If people don't want to be brought together, no one can force them to do so. I believe people want a more united states of america. 

Linda, you say you're progay rights-what is your hang up about calling gay marriage "marriage". When someone tells me they are progay rights I take that to mean equality-- is it the word "marriage" you are hung up on? I don't get why people care so much about other people's relationships and whether they call it marriage or something else. I don't think heterosexual marriages are that fragile that they need feel threatened by the disproportionally fewer homosexual ones.

sccruiser

Anyone else noticed that McCain keeps making comments when he talks about how superstitious he is?? Like to the point of wearing a special clothing item to get a positive result to whatever he is doing?



This is someone to vote for for Prez of US?? Scary!



I am a diehard Demo. I don't care who is the Rep nominee, or who is the Demo nominee--I'll be voting Democratic down the line. I can't take 4 or 8 more years of a republican as president. Bush has ruined more than our economy, he has literally sent young men to be murdered for an unjustifiable war. I firmly believe that if someone other than Cheney were VP, Bush would have been impeached.



Even with Pelosi trying to maintain bipartisanship in goverment, Bush has no qualms about letting the Congress know that if they don't do what he wants, Bush will veto whatever they send him and make Congress responsible for the killing of more of our young men.



To vote for McCain as president & have him in office, just means that we will keep the status quo.



It's time to end this dictatorship. It is time for change. Whether it's Hillary or Barack, I will cast my vote for the Democratic nominee. In addition I intend to give as much time as I can to help the Democrats win this election!



I believe that eventually Bush will go down as the worst President this country has ever had. Did anyone see Maher of Larry King Live the other night? Larry asked him how he would rank Bush as a President. Bill asked how many presidents we have had. Larry repied 43. Bill Maher stated he would rank Bush as 45th. Because whoever was elected could never be worse than he was!



grace

saluki

I am superstitious as well and never viewed it as "scary"maybe only a bit  eccentric.

Only Bush I voted for was Bush Sr. who I viewed as genuine.

Yes, I share the Bill Maher view that history will not treat GWB jr. kindly.

I thought it happened to be an enjoyable interview.

You can catch it here.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2008/02/05/lkl.bill.maher.cnn 

Particularly enjoyed the part about Romney and the "Shapeshifters." LOL

Now if you really want Left--Michael Moore is on Larry King tonight.

ADK

Just thought I would throw this out there - from the constitution of the US (which both the pres & veep swear to defend and uphold).  Separation of church & state is vital to this democracy working.

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

TenderIsOurMight

Bill Maher is an interesting guy. I did see that interview, and felt he was impressively candid and insightful.



It saddens me that President Bush did not carry on our countries tradition of no unprovoked war.



It also saddens me that his posture has been that the US can "democratize" the world, in fact has a moral obligation to do so.



We have lost so much of our long fought for, painfully earned moral high ground under the current President Bush.



I too feel President Bush's legacy will be one of profound failure.



With much sadness,

Tender

BethNY

I just hope that if Hillary does win the ticket, that Mccain will choose Huckabee for VP.  I think even the hillary haters, won't vote for that combo.

I get shivers just thinking about it.

BethNY

Oh and Amy- this is kind of off topic... but I am ALL FOR gay marriage.  It sickens me to death that my gay friends with kids-- lets say one of the kids needs to go to the hospital for care, and doesn't have the same last name as the one parent, there aren't parental rights...furthermore, my gay friends that have been living together for years, that are then getting "divorced" so to speak, if the one partner was home caring for the house and kids, they get nothing, like a hetero couple would in a divorce settlement...

BUT, if it takes changing a stupid word like Marriage to make ignorant people feel more comfortable, and it will give my gay friends the basic human rights that they deserve, then I'm all for it.

JMO...

sccruiser

I agree with you Beth on both your comments. I too can only hope that if McCain wins the nomination, he brings on Huckabee as his VP nominee. I would be shocked if he won the election. Just don't understand why people in this country can't separate church and state. Seems that this country was born on the need for religious freedom.



I also believe in gay marriage. I believe that TWO people should be allowed to get married. Legalize it in the government without the religious attachment. Why are some people so threatened by gay marriage. Look at the marriages in this nation--over 50% of men and women who marry get divorced. Seems that we are not doing such a good job of marriage between a man and a woman. Maybe we can reduce the percentage if woman can marry woman, and man can marry man.



There are so many more important issues needing resolution in this country right now.



Tender,

Your comments are so on target for me. I believe that our country has no right to dictate Democracy to another country. I find it ludicrous that GWB believes that might is right. As far as I am concerned, GWB has brought terrorism to Iraq. I wish the newspapers would give us the numbers of wounded military, as well as the number of wounded and dead innocent men, women & children in Iraq. What we have done in this world is disgusting behavior by invading Iraq under false pretenses.



It is time for a change. Time for many changes. If things continue the way they are, we will be unable to safely travel outside of US boundaries. Talk about losing freedom!



grace

djd

One thing I cannot understand is how the word "marriage" should only be a heterosexual word.

Marriage is nothing more than a legal contract.  Different religions have different definitions and beliefs about marriage.  That's fine.  If a church doesn't want to conduct gay marriage cermonies, that's their right.  But in the legal sense, which has nothing to do with religion, gays should have every spousal right that heterosexual couples have, including the right to use the word "marriage".

The gay marriage issue was a tactic used by Karl Rove to insure that red-state voters would come to the polls on election day (2004) to vote for a gay marriage ban in the constitution and pull the lever for Bush while they were in the booth.

JoanofArdmore

Marilyn-I will  send you a picture of the shirt as soon as I get one!I can TAKE one now, but will send you a picture of me IN the shirt.

Gina I WAS crying during Obama's speech.He is so wonderful that I can't believe everyone can't feel it!

It amuses me that billary is trying to buy the election.They already "LOANED" her campaign  5 million, are getting ready to get another 5."It's hard, money is tight" says hillary.One wonders that she doesnt realize that all the millions Obama raised were from supporters.Does she really think people who put their own money in can compair their support with people whose supporters sent them 30mil in January alone?I know Hillary would counter that HER supporters are older women,  on Medicare..but what does she think I am,chopped liver?And even I was GLAD to contribute $50 to Obama's campaign!You couldnt have STOPPED me!

Some political commentator last night called Obama's campaign "a movement".And that's just what it is!"The Alice's Restaurant and Massacree Movement"!(If you dont know, you werent there)

And, as one article was called Obama's Star Supporters showed Robert DiNero, named loooots of others.But my Q is where is Bruce?I KNOW he is there.(And where is Arlo Guthrie anyway?)

One of what Beth calls Hillary Haters last night said "Please tell me exactlyWHAT this 35 years of experience WAS?"Um.I think we said that right after she claimed to have it.But the person went on to say "She has never run anything in her life:not a business, not a state, not a city.And she thinks she can run THIS COUNTRY??Why??"

I agree entirely, and wish Beth or some other hillary supporter would answer this.

Some person was here much earlier, quoted from hillary's website as the answer to this Q and then disappeared when called on it.

Can anyone truely tell me WHAT the 35 years of experience was in doing?(I hope it wasnt watching Bill run the country because we ALL did that!Or maybe the healthcare plan that was roundly rejected, and who invited her to write it anyway??)What?

BTW, Beth, one commentator on PBS last night said no WAY will McCaine chose Huckaby.If YOU can figure this would turn off the hillary-haters, dont you think McCaine can?

As to gay marriage, I have long been for it.Not "union", but marriage, bearing all the rights and priveledges of hetro marriage.

Sure in OLDEN days marriage was "one man and one woman" But this is the 21 century, and as Donna said, marriage is a contract which any two people should be able to avail themselves of.

(But hey.."Stand for Change")

We SO need change.

 My kids and I have one dear friend who owns a little island in Greece.As well as a flat in Paris.He and his wife were married in Greece years ago.

Then, of course, when gay marriage was possible, for a short period, we know people who were married in SF, and in Mass, I think.Why I'm on about it?I had two marriages,(3 actually-same guy twice) all of the judge at City Hall kind.Actually, in Palm Beach, you can have walk-in, same-day, marriage and/or divorce!

So why should not gay people be free to avail themselves of these options, costing so much less than a trip to another state(much less country)?

And it's so obvious that gay people should be free to!

OK.Walkeees.

NoH8

Beth, do you really think that Hillary can win in a general election against McCain?  I wish I could believe that-- I just worry so much about her high negative ratings and that she'll bring out republicans who would have been to apathetic to vote for McCain just to vote against her. I've thought this ever since she ran for senate and there were rumors about her presidential aspirations. Maybe if I truly believe she had a shot I'd be less against her.

Beth and Bygrace-- I can see why you might think there are more important issues going on if you're not the one being told your love isn't equal to heterosexuals and I don't resent that. The rights are more important than the word-- I just get pissed off when folks say they're for equality except for the word marriage when it's the same thing (except for abbadoodles who is the only one who explained her position-even though I disagree I respect the explanation). I'm so happy to see how many of my bc sisters support gay marriage!

Bill Maher is the best! He rarely says anything that I disagree with. I particularly agree with his views on 9/11 and the war in Iraq and said the same thing before I knew he agreed with me. Bill Maher for president-- it would be good to have a president that made the jokes rather than one who is the butt of the jokes.

As you guys have said, GWB brought terrorism to Iraq-- instead of Sadaam's dictatorship the country now has terror cells all over the place. Maher's point about the USA's christian army being just what the terrorists hate about our country and making more 9/11s increasingly possible is something I've said since 2001.

Blundin2005

...about gay marriages ...

It comes back to that word money again.  

Ok let's see now...it was 1869 when Susan B wanted a Consitutional Amendment to give woman the right to vote.  Dec 10 of the same year Wyoming passes the first law and not until 1919 (the year my mom was born) until the Senate sent the bill to the states for ratification...almost 50 years of hell in between.  We were considered "chattel" that is property of our men.

Now some 88 years later, we want to give gays the same contractural rights and protection under the law as non gays who marry.   Any guess how long that will take to happen?

These changes cost cha ching which is why they are slow to happen and smoke screens are thrown up in front of them to divert attention..ie. religious beliefs.  

Who was it up there who said these two matters are separate....oh absolutely yes indeed they are...which is why our forefathers were smart enough to separate the two in the US Constitution...that would be the same Constitution that GW thought needed changing...unilaterally.  

The problem with the cha ching argument is that it is short sighted and doesn't account for the benefits derived for a more humane society.  But what the F$.  US is not alone in this prejudice.

Last night the news programs, talk shows and special reports here were all analyzing the elections results of Tuesday.  You see, they are having their own political problems--they compare and contrast the two governments structure effectiveness.  It's really fascinating to observe another culture view my culture through their eyes....they are onto the the billary factor and the votes shifting to McCain and the potential SE. 

One journalist observed that the threesome of McCain, Obama and Clinton are "the whitest of white" "a black man even though his mother was white" and "a masculine woman" who emerged through our votes as the front runners for the Presidency.

It struck me when I heard this would the commentary be the same in US  ?  Has anyone else heard this?  I hadn't thought of McCain as the "whitest of white" until the journalist mentioned it.

And the BBC interviewed a "progressive republican" who expressed her true admiration for Obama who reached out to them to talk.  She was very much impressed.  I don't think I ever remember a republican or democrate cross the party line in that manner...but I could be wrong.  It was surprising though to me.

fyi   http://www.infoplease.com/spot/womenstimeline1.html 

Condi made front page ... I wonder if she's VP ticket minded? 

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/55ABE840-AC30-41D2-BDC9-06BBE2A36665.htm 

BethNY

Joan, seeing as how you hate Hillary, I wouldn't waste one second of my time talking about everything she's done, and will do if she was in the white house.  What you should understand about me, is that I am a democrat through and through.  If Obama wins the ticket, I will surely vote for him, however, in my heart of hearts, I think he's too green.  I love his desire, I have READ HIS BOOK (bet ya didn't know that).  I think sometimes when he speaks, its like a preacher at church though.  It turns me off a bit. 

Everyone wants to yell about how Hillary voted for war and Obama didn't.  Well, for me personally, after watching planes fly into buildings on 9-11, I wanted to go to war.  I wanted to nuke all those mother f*ckers.  I don't care what illegal things we do to terrorists when we interrogate them, and AT THAT TIME, most Americans felt the same.  Based on the information that we were given as a country, the fact that Obama didn't vote for war just left a sour taste in my mouth.

Either way, the race is tight, and exciting to say the least.  We'll just have to see where it goes from here.

You talk about Obama like he's free from any error.  I won't bring myself to bash any other democratic candidate the way you have done with Hillary here, but you should know, your superhero Barack Obama, hasn't been nearly perfect either.

NoH8

Blundin- what's scary to me is that there are people who want to make a constitutional amendment against homosexual marriage when aside from prohibition, which was repealed, the constitution hasn't been used to deny people rights before. I'm so bothered that part of the country sees gays as sinners/sick/perverted, that some  preachers blame terrorism and hurricaines on "tolerance" for gays, that people can be fired from jobs for being gay. Homophobia can be anywhere, it's just not usually government sanctioned.

saluki

Thank you Romney!---Fox is reporting he will drop out of the Presidential

race this afternoon.  He will announce it at that Conservative conference being held this afternoon.

NoH8

I was just coming to post it. He's "suspending" not actually withdrawing but for all intents and puroses it's the same thing. Yahooooo! We don't need a mean, slimy person in the white house.

saluki

By the way McCain is going to make a very tough speech at this same conference to repair his relations with conservatives.  He was booed at this same conference last year.

No, no not a McCain/Romney ticket!

Gotta say though --it was a pretty gracious speech for Romney to choose to give at this particular time.

saluki

Marilyn --Please further define the statement "Whitest of White"?  I find the term to be very derogatory.

If you were really referring to the color of McCain's skin---It is due to the 

very heavy sunblock he has to wear as the result of three local Melanoma

recurrences.