Non-Mainstream Therapies: Are You Curious? Skeptical? Grateful?

So true Light. It's certainly evident to me that treatments for Stage 4 aren't working...and yeah, I'm more than a little pissed that back then, I did it ALL to prevent getting to this point and I'm here anyway. I feel betrayed, frankly.

Light, AIs and Tamoxifen have most likely extended my life just as cannabis oil may be extending Stefanie's life. My bone density is above average, better than it was before cancer came along, thanks to Zometa and some hard work at the gym weight training. But I get it that cannabis may be a far easier treatment, if less studied. 

Nine twelve, that is true. Cancer might be gone, but that reward doesn't matter if you are no longer alive. I've heard stories of people with not much cancer in their bodies but the medicine was too much for them to tolerate. Agree about the cannabis, I wouldn't bet my life on any one treatment protocol. But if it was all I was taking and my widespread mets disappeared, I wouldn't stop. I would share my experience, and become an advocate for cannabis legalization. because it might save someone else's life.

Heidihill, Yes, I realize that, and I do think antihormonal treatments have a place and are helpful for some. I was referring to the very many who have progressed to stage IV while/after using many years of chemo and antihormonals. And I do remember from reading here that you have consistently exercised, hiked, etc. Good fresh clean air, exercise, and vita d from the sun are powerful immune builders too. All have some research behind them. I thought I had remembered reading that you had done some alternative things as well.

Anyway, I guess I just have a problem with a lot of the treatments which purposely suppress the immune system. We know now from research that the immune system is the body's natural defense against disease.

momine,

Momine I was ILC too and my stats were different to yours.......the Onc was clear that ILC often does NOT recur during first 5 years but that it has a high risk of recurrence from ten years onwards, in my case 70% chance of getting mets by year 10 but probably ok within first 5 years..........quite different from what you were told?

Personally I don´t buy in to the stats as they are standardized and don´t allow for things we do individually, too many variables for me but te difference in info is worrying...............

Dear winning ... Sounds like you won and need a new name thank you for the hope and encouragement in your post. It has helped me just now to fear less moving on with my life.

T

I really don’t know whether the extra things I did helped but here’s my take on them. My philosophy on alternative/complementary things is to use daily for 1-3 months, except for exercise, adequate sleep and fruits and veggies, which are daily doses year in and year out. In 1-3 months I figure you can kill some cancer cells without too much harm to healthy cells, just in case.  My onc has suggested:  baby aspirin (made my mouth too dry), metformin (made me constipated), melatonin and antihistamine, which I still take around springtime every year, or when necessary. I get vitamin D at my onc’s office in the winter. I tried daily broccoli sprouts for 3 months until I developed a nodule on my thyroid. I tried watercress for a month or so.  I used to put curcumin in soups and salads for joint pain, but stopped when I switched to tamoxifen.  In general I don’t believe in antioxidant supplements having read that the body produces its own antioxidants after exercise and supplements may interfere with the body’s adaptation to exercise. I don’t juice but eat things whole because I think there is something healthy about chewing and digesting naturally.

To help me lose weight I did intermittent fasting for a whole year. That is, eating only within a window of 7 hours during the day. I imagined cancer cells slowly starving to death. Towards the end of that year I was starting to gain weight again so I upped the exercise intensity and reduced my calorie intake.  I have managed to keep my fasting glucose and insulin levels low this way.

Another thing in my toolbox was hyperthermic conditioning. I tried to raise my core body temperature by exercising, usually a 4-minute Tabata routine with stretching,in my steamy bathroom. (Ask your doctor first before trying this.) If I didn’t overheat some cancer cells, I at least improved my fitness and sweated out toxins for a few months.

To improve lymphatic flow and the immune system, I tried rebounding… until my knees gave up. Walking and biking are better on the joints, particularly biking off-road if you want to shake things up. Cancer cells get dizzy, start bumping into blood vessel walls and explode. Massage is good for this, too. I indulged myself with a daily massage for 3 months. (Expensive, but if you can’t do this at stage IV, when then?)  Walking in the forest gives me an oxygen boost I can’t get at home. A bit like hyperbaric oxygen treatment, but cheaper. Cancer cells can’t breathe too much oxygen. For stronger bones I weight train, as well as eat 7-10 servings of acid-reducing fruits and veggies. I'm no longer on Zometa so I need to remind myself to do weights more often.

I’m currently doing acupuncture once a week. It is very relaxing. I haven’t fallen into such a deep sleep in ages, and that in the middle of the day in a strange bed with needles on me. Nine Twelve, how is it for you?

There are things I still want to try. Like probiotics. I can’t seem to get over the thought of all the bacteria in the packet though. So maybe it will have to be sauerkraut everyday for a month. Or kimchi. Thinking of doing Reiki as well.

I think this is my longest post ever. If anyone is still reading, I'd like to conclude that it probably is good to confuse cancer by changing the environment where it lives, our bodies, every so often. There are many ways to do that. Mix it up.

Thanks for all of that Heidihill. That is a great regimen. I do a lot of similar things. Yoga and biking in the hot sun, are my favorite. Most of the supplements I've taken are food, all plants, just like fruits and veggies. Some ARE fruits, veggies, like goji juice (lycium barbarum), mushrooms,asparagus powder, curcumin, green tea, powdered greens,black seed, and flax. Also, IV vita C has been useful in treating many cancers, including breast, and high antioxident fruits, veggies, and things like coq10, all have research that they kill cancer cells, so I don't share your philosophy on antioxidents. Anyway, everything I have taken/eaten, all have various sources of research that indicate that they kill breast cancer cells. I would have to write a book to share what I have done since diagnosis. I started with myers cocktail infusions and mistletoe, and gerson(modified), prior to surgery, then went on to artemisinin/butyrate, the list goes on, and on...I am 100% behind you on confusing the little buggas, and especially taking charge of your health, by putting daily effort towards it. Juicing changed my life. I think we can inspire ourselves and enjoy our lives more, knowing that we are actively creating our lives daily.

Leggo, You're not adversarial, we all just believe what we believe based on our experiences. I'm so happy you found DCA. Thanks for sharing.

Some others of mine...sacchromyces cervasie (beta glucan), bee propolis, cats claw, astragalus, ashwaghanda, mushrooms, colustrum, MSM, selenium, whole leaf aloe are on on the revolving regimen.

Lily, the greatest risk of recurrence with a DX like ours is in the first 3 years. This is because, both according to my own reading and my doc's explanation, with stage 3, it is highly possible that there are already micromets somewhere that they can't see on imaging. IF the treatment "works" those micromets will be beaten back. If the treatment does not work, you will typically see recurrence/stage 4 within 3 years of DX. My doc calls recurrence in the first 3 years "treatment failure."

If you get over that hump, as we both have, then the next worry is recurrence further out. WIth IDC, a "late" recurrence is somewhat more likely to occur around the 5-yr mark, whereas with ILC it is somewhat more likely to occur later at the 7-10-yr mark. However, all these kinds of stats are based on an assumption of standard treatment.

Obviously stats are a general measure and can't in any way account for outliers and individual variation. We have stats for mortality while driving and while flying. Your odds, per mile (I think it is per mile anyway), are way better in a plane than in a car. However, if you happen to be in a plane that crashes, then those stats are pretty irrelevant to your specific situation. On the other hand, if you are trying to make an informed decision about risks related to getting from A to B, those stats are still meaningful. So, if I am looking at a mortality risk of 50% and statistically we know that remedy A can cut that risk to 30% while remedy B might cut it to 45 or 30 or 49, but we don't actually know for sure, then guess which remedy I will choose?

Forgot to mention horse chestnut. I happened to be sharing a hospital room with another lady who had gone through the same surgery. I was naive about anything to do with lymphadema. She clued me in. When I read about it and saw the pictures, I almost had a heart attack. I immediately called her up and she told me about the supplement. I THINK it worked. I had a ton of lymph nodes removed and have never had an issue. Could be just dumb luck too, but I've since had blood draws and iv's in that arm as well and I think maybe that could have seriously messed things up if I hadn't been proactive.

Thanks for the link.

Momine, but the stats, even if they are based on solid truth, don't factor in survival rates from various and combined alternative or complimentary treatments, diet exercise, and other daily practices. like breathing fresh outdoor air daily, sunshine and meditation. It doesn't factor in genes, hormone levels, oorph vs. post meno (w/ ovaries), I agree with Lily, the stats are too generalized to garner needed info, and are likely fabricated to a degree anyway (based on history of cancer industry.)

I agree though Momine with what you just said, about getting behind things we can agree on. Seems we have a lot in common actually...especially with the diet and exercise.

I tend to be analytical and logical as well. We just don't share the same beliefs. Its ok to disagree,isnt it?. We are both quite good at pointing out weaknesses in each others arguments. high five on that. I can always count on it and am even learning to appreciate you for that. So there.