I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

I understand that people enjoy shooting at targets or handling semi automatics.  I get that.  But why can't it be mandated that you have to go to a shooting gallery that follows strict rules and procedures that can fullfill this need.  Why can't there be laws that state how much gun power a person can own and how it is stored.  It is ridiculous to suggest that making our schools and public meeting places more secure against this type of assault as the solution.  

Now we are hearing that the man forced his way into the school.  So how did security measures help them?  Does anyone really think that if there had been a gun in the office that it would have helped?  This man had a purpose and the element of surprise on his side.  

If anyone is watching CNN, Soledad O'Brien isn't holding back on the political jargon being spewed right now.  You go girl!!

Tweet of the Day:

@ivanwhite48: Only in America can gun ownership be a right and healthcare be a privilege.

I don't understand some Americans' concepts of freedom.  My U.S. relatives -- in Florida, Michigan and California -- live in gated communities.  When I watch "House Hunters" on HGTV, I frequently see houses that have bars on doors and windows.  I just read a comment by someone who said that, after the Columbine shooting, his son's school began to look like a prison -- trees cut down, high fences surrounding it, and guards at the doors.

Now there are NRA idiot spokespeople saying that teachers should be armed.  Who is to say that a stressed-out teacher wouldn't use it on a particularly vexacious student?  I wonder what the excuses would be coming forth from the NRA about that?

Freedom, schmeedom!

Athena it isn't about glory or politically correct anything. We need to open up the can of worms that is our mental health mess in this country. We have to make that part of the discussion.



I'm intimately familiar with trying to wade through the system that calls itself mental health.



IT SUCKS. ........and is woefully inadequate. The inmates have free run of the asylum.......because we don't, won't or can't talk about the brain damaged among us.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. To me it's the elephant in the room.

Gun control does NOT equal a gun ban. However, the NRA's breathless hysteria about any kind of gun laws has many people convinced that it does. I'm terribly sorry you feel attacked, Riley. Part of the NRA's talking points is that we have plenty of laws that aren't enforced -- but we don't. We don't have enough, and we don't enforce the ones we do have.



There are Federal laws on the books regarding gun dealers that the ATF is supposed to enforce but that Congress specifically refuses to allow the agency to spend money on. Sickening. Here is an article from 2011 about lack of funding for ATF hampering crime-fighting efforts from Mayors Against Illegal Guns:



http://www.thewashingtoncurrent.com/2011/01/mayors-congress-failure-to-fund-atf.html





And the background check is a joke when you have the gun show loophole that allows purchasers at gun shows to buy a gun with no background check. Convicted felon? Step right on up.



DH is a Federal agent. He has been a Federal law enforcement officer for 24 years. He has carried a gun to work every day. He has drawn his gun in the line of duty hundreds of times. The last time he had to handcuff someone, he didn't put his gun away because it was so dangerous. He was a firearms instructor at his last job, and is a certified armorer for several brands and types of guns he used. He grew up hunting and grew up with guns in the house. We have guns, safely secured in a double-locked safe in a double-locked closet. I am not a fan of guns, but happen to be an excellent shot (women usually are because they have better fine motor skills).



DH believes wholeheartedly that we need more and better gun control. No gun show loopholes. If you want to buy a gun, you apply for a background check. You must show proof that you took a gun safety course from a federally-approved trainer. Then you must purchase a 10-year, non-cancelable, prepaid $10 million liability policy before you can purchase the gun. You must complete all these steps before you can be licensed to own the gun. You must take a continuing education course every other year to continue to own the gun. And ATF can track this easily in an existing database. And it would prohibit people from buying guns for other people (straw buyer). If you can spend $800 on a Sig or a Glock, you can spend more to legally own it. It is the same analogy as a car - you are licensed to drive a car, you must insure it and you must have your license renewed periodically.



While Indiana may have laws that mentally-ill people cannot buy guns, not every state does. I have read articles about mentally-ill people who tried to buy guns, were denied, and a judge overruled the law -- and they went on to kill people.



Here is an article from the same organization above (Mayors Against Illegal Guns) that talks about mentally ill people buying guns and how easy it is -- especially with the gun show loophole:



http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/html/media-center/wsj_011211_2.shtml



And the NRA is a huge part of the problem. DH resigned his membership decades ago when they became a right-wing crazy organization. They have actually advocated killing Federal agents in the past. This current barking mad drivel coming out of them about "Obama is going to take your guns" and calling Fast amd Furious an Obama plot to take away people's guns is criminally irresponsible.



Will bad people intent on doing harm always be able to get guns? Of course. But it would be a lot harder to get guns if they were more tightly licensed and regulated. Can somebody steal a car and use it to kill people? Of course. But does that mean we should throw up our hands and not license people to drive, or license cars, or not require cars to be insured?



Gun control and better gun laws does NOT mean a gun ban. It is a conversation that must be had now. DH doesn't think that even this horrible carnage will change anything, though. He thinks it will take an even bigger tragedy, like someone at a crowded shopping mall shooting someone, and 20 people pulling out their concealed weapons and firing away. In the end, there will be 50 or a hundred people dead and dozens wounded ... And then maybe it will stop.



I can't get out of my mind the sound of the screams the children must have made as they were gunned down. I wish that Wayne LaPierre and his posse of lobbyists could hear those screams too.



L

Excellent, excellent, EXCELLENT article from Salon.com that frames the debate and offers solutions much better than I did in my post above:



http://www.salon.com/2012/12/15/yes_we_can_have_sane_gun_control/



Please click and read. It is very, very on pointl



L

I wonder that too, Suzie.



L

The people who want teachers to carry guns are the same people who call teachers greedy, lazy, overpaid union thugs. So, they want a greedy, lazy, overpaid union thug who only cares about money to carry a gun in the classroom with their children. They are, by and large, the same people who think it is OK to kill medical personnel who perform certain legal medical procedures but who don't want to pay for prenatal care for poor women or feed poor children once they are out in the world.



I don't listen to people like that.



Ever.



L

HL - that was an excellent article.  thanks for posting the links.  Hope it goes viral.  But then, expect many would add it to their wild "conspiracy" lists, still amazes me people can concoct conspiracy about almost anything.  The United Nations, so so so sad...

Many of my friends hunt.  I don't know anyone who owns an assault weapon.

Well, lots to mull over here.  Riley...I hope you stop feeling picked on.  You have valied points as I think everyone does.  I think about how many policemen get killed in the line of duty....while they are carrying guns to protect themselves and hopefully  well trained to use them.....but too many die anyway. 

I do go along with the fact that the people I know ( or hope I know ) are really responsible about their guns and they are small pistols or shotguns for hunting.  Still, I'm not wild about guns.  For one thing, they can be taken from you while you are trying to protect yourself.  So.....it is a thing where  we need more stringent rules about how guns are kept safely in homes by the "rightfully registered owners" and I also see no reason for anyone to have any gun that will fire many rounds at once. 

I also agree that anyone who wants to do away with someone does not necessarily have to do so with a gun, but for the most part, the gun is faster, easier and will keep the shooter away from someone who might actually be able to wrestle the gun away. 

My bottom  line.....we have to find enough civility in each other some way, to figure out what it will take to quit killing each other for any reason.  We have to walk right over the top of the LaPierre's of this world and get this done because little kids who deserve to go to school and be able to be secure while there, obviously can't do that.  There are a whole group of parents ( probably about 40 ) who will not have the Christmas they were planning for this yr. and many others in these same families.  Will these parents always feel a horrible void every yr. at X-mas time.   I do hope our President can do something at this point.  I hope he will try as hard as he can.  I'd like to think there is enough humanity left in people to feel something for these children who only meant to go to school. 

Jackie

The Times has these names on a Vietnam War Memorial-like mural on its homepage - can't seem to copy and paste the graphic here properly:

http://www.nytimes.com/

Newtown Shooting | The Victims

Source: Connecticut State Police