Cupping?

I had it for neuropathy, but it did not help at all

cookiegal, we'll ask the editorial team to follow up.

Judith and the Mods

I had a massage therapist perform cupping on my back. This was after my exchange surgery but prior to developing LE. I had back pain and decided to have a massage, not knowing I was developing a case of shingles as the rash wasn't visible yet. Had never heard of cupping, and she said it was a simple process, which it was. Didn't hurt at all, but didn't do anything for my back either. Obviously, this is not what a doctor would recommend for shingles! Thank goodness the cup wasn't placed directly on the area that developed the rash. Anyway, I developed two bruises on my back from where she had placed the cup, and they took weeks to go away. This cannot be a good thing to allow near LE or in that quadrant. All the things we try to avoid, cupping causes. I felt pretty stupid for allowing this procedure once I was diagnosed with shingles. I took a pic of the rash once it appeared and the bruise is there. Will see if I can find it.

We're not going to sue? 

I just did all this Komen research for a lecture...... 

Actually, the mods were right on it, and I really hope they change the article up front, so women don't have to search to get the right information, the safe information, and this woman needs to understand lymphatic QUADRANTS.

Thank you Cookie for your close read of the blog, and the mods are really responsive, I just wish bc.org would get the basic premise of lymphedema risk reduction behaviors.

Kira 

Oh--we are not going to sue?

Leah, I don't have a diagram handy, but think of it like chicken quarters: wing, breast, back.

Seriously, the dividing lines are the waist and the midline of chest and back (spine). So for cancer treatment in the right breast, the affected quadrant is above the waist to the neck, and from the center of your chest in front, around your right side to your spine in the back. Does that help? But you have to keep in mind that if you've had surgery to both breasts that's two affected quadrants.

Tina, good thought! You're not leaving this poor acupuncturist much wiggle room, are you?!

Kira and Jane, it's way too cold to sue the socks off anybody. Maybe if they're still messing up in August....
Binney

Here, I'll "liven" it up for you, Jane:

http://www.stepup-speakout.org/manual_lymphatic_drainage_massage_lymphedema.htm

Click on the first (left-hand) diagram near the top of the page to enlarge it.
Binney

Binney and Jane, thank you! I thought the quadrant was just upper trunk; I didn't realize it went to the waist.

Well, now I understand why my LE PT taught me to do the MLD to below my waist (and she does  that, too).

Leah

Cupping?  Hmmm.... The word alone reminds me of bloodletting, pin-firing (for horses), and all those other archaic treatments.  Creepy.  (Sorry.)  Guess I'll skip that one.

otter

Tina, I was kidding -- I agree with you on the leg risk, and it sure isn't worth taking chances with. I appreciate your commenting about that on the blog, and I certainly hope it's addressed in a rewrite of that blog entry.

Happily enough, there is some research going on regarding the use of acupuncture for LE relief (and hopefully Kira or Jane or Otter will come along and remind me of where that's being done), and I believe they're looking at safety as well as efficacy (there are those who believe that with LE we should avoid skin breaks anywhere on our bodies whenever possible, no matter which quadrant is affected). I haven't seen anything published from that study yet, but that's just as well since we need to know about long-term issues too.

Hugs,
Binney

I heard of "coining" amongst southeast asian patients, and they are often accused of child abuse for the bruises.

The bottom line, how do we get bc.org to closely read and edit the blog posts they put up?

Kira

And what pops up on my google alert: a long post by a PhD and breast surgeon about his concerns about integrative medicine and oncology:

Barrie Cassileth; Amy Matecki; K. Simon Yeung; Carmencita Mercado-Poe; Marci Coleton; Lisa Bailey; James Lozada; Martha Tracy; Gary Cecchi. Safety of Acupuncture for Upper Extremity Lymphedema in Breast Cancer Patients: Lessons from two major Medical Centers. Define "safety." As a surgeon who sees a fair number of patients with lymphedema due to breast cancer surgery, the thought of sticking needles into the lymphedematous limb causes me to shudder, given how prone limbs with lymphedema are to infection and how--shall we say?--unconcerned about sterile technique most acupuncturists are. (Just ask Mark Crislip if you don't believe me.)

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/01/francis_collins_and_integrative_oncology.php?utm_source=sbhomepage&utm_medium=link&utm_content=channellink

Thank you, Moderators, for addressing our requests. We want to keep BCO a site that provides access to current and accurate info.



Kira, I should send that link to the head of the breast center at the hospital where I had my surgery. In the last few years they have offered access to CAM, but it has not been funded by the hospital itself. While I have found art therapy helpful, I didn't care too much for the reiki or NIA sessions. Since my mastectomy, I have been more willing to try different things, but (to me) it is pretty clear when it's hokum. I never used in addition to treatment, rather as ways to cope with long-term physical and emotional pain after reconstructive surgery. Either way, it demonstrates that when people are desperate to find measures to help with treatment, pain, etc. and these methods are available, they are often tried. Things like reiki wouldn't hurt anyone, so one might say why not. However, it also takes away the time a patient might use to find a legitimate and effective treatment or method of coping. I am actually a big fan of art therapy and mindful meditation, and even drumming (like music therapy), as they all seem to help reduce stress. However, the positive (magical) thinking and energy stuff leaves me cold.

Mods et al., thanks for updating the blog entry to add the precautions and disclaimers.

As for cupping, ... <sigh>:  I guess I just don't have my head screwed on right.  I've had 12 years of "conventional" college-level training in health sciences and medicine, including anatomy, physiology, pathology, etc. (all the "ologies").  Perhaps that's the whole problem -- I'm too "conventional" in how I think about things and what I understand about biology and living systems.

I simply do not understand statements like this:  "I commonly use this painless technique [i.e., cupping] in conjunction with acupuncture after medical treatment to detoxify from medications...".  (Emphasis is mine.)

How is applying suction to a particular site on the skin going to "detoxify" the body?  I get that some women think taking massive doses of laxatives will remove toxins.  (I understand that they think it will; I'm not saying it actually will, although intractable diarrhea will result in loss of quite a few things.) 

But, how will cupping, or acupuncture, for that matter, remove any toxins???

otter the skeptic