Chemo and Breast Cancer

Taxol is derived from a plant. I believed in a 50% advantage not 2% in my case.

If you personally, are genuinely assured of a 50% reduction in recurrence risk, then i can understand why you would choose that treatment option. But when you made that decision, did you research the short and long term outcomes of chemotherapy as a treatment choice? was it an informed decision? Accepting the potential risks to your heart and immune system? if so, dont you think others have a right here to research, question, and discuss their decisions, without being distracted by one liners?

Where have I rammed my treatment options down anyone's throat?  Someone is projecting again.

Ok ladies, just a reminder to please keep this civil and respectful. Everyone here has a right to their opinions; if you do not agree with those opinions, there is always room for a healthy, respectful debate. Please keep in mind that this thread is in fact in the Alt forum, and therefore it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that there are alternative theories discussed here. If you are not comfortable with the topic at hand, move on and choose another forum to comment on in which you do feel comfortable. This goes for all sides of this debate, and for future debates as well.

Thank you for continuing to maintain a RESPECTFUL and PEACEFUL atmosphere.

--The Mods

Whether or not some alternative treatment is based on evidence, the definition given does imply that.

But at the same time, with the exception of a few new trials for very limited groups, conventional medicine has failed to allow alternative options (such as trastuzumab) to be tested alone against chemotherapy alone, so that leaves chemotherapy not based on evidence that it is better than other options.

FDA approval is not the holy grail.  Some drugs have been helpful and some drugs have been harmful...some fatal.  Also, just because it hasn't been approved, doesn't make it ineffective.  On that same note, by anyone's definition, BCO is a "conventional" based site.  Just because the Mod's above definition of this forum infers that is isn't "evidence based" doesn't make it the gospel.  If conventional medicine had all the answers we would be cancer free. 

It's crucial that we are armed with enough information to know what to choose and then pick and choose from each modality if that's our choice.  To be closed minded to any modality is only hurting ourselves.  As eve stated, right now we are collecting tools to win the battle.  For those who want studies, they are out there....look at curcumin, etc.  I want scienced based evidence as as well as empirical evidence.  I value both...I trust neither completely.  It's beyond me why people want to pit one against the other rather than band together and win the war.  This forum could be very useful to those who have undergone chemo, those currently undergoing it and those still scheduled to do so.  When chemo fails us, some may look toward alternatives.  When alternatives fail us, some may look toward chemo.  It's a race, it's a war, it's our lives. I want a discussion that I can gain from.  You dont have to buy it all lock, stock and barrell but I for one am definitely shopping for the "gun". 

AA, I think you are onto something with the endocrinologist.  If cancer were but a tumor, cutting it out would have healed me but since cancer is a systemic disease that has localized and not a local disease that disseminates, we need more than just our BS and Onc's to assess the situation.  Thanks for the links! 

Digger, are you trying to keep me on my toes or bring me to me knees?  You have certainly done your homework on me because that's not in my bio and I haven't mentioned unclean margins for a very long time on these boards.  "My current progression" as you call it isn't in my breast.  Cancer in my breast doesn't show up on an MRI, a PET/CT scan, a thermography, a mammography or an ultrasound . I have recently had them all.  It is in my lymph nodes however... which, since you are keeping track, I had an SNB with 8 node removed...all clear.  So your conventional medicine isn't full proof.   As I said, cancer is a systemic disease that localizes, not a local disease that disseminates.   How many women have had their breasts cut off only to realize the cancer has "come back" elsewhere.

Your simple injections on the altrernative forums are getting really tiresome.  (yawn)

Yes Beesie, it's true, bc cells can disseminate to the liver, etc. of course.  What I mean is bc cells didn't just spring up in the breast spontaneously.  There was an underlying cause that manifested itself in the breast or colon or wherever our cancer is.  Whether it's toxicity, lack of nutrition, acidity, infectious...whatever the theory is, it's systemic.  Our breasts aren't "sick"...we are.  My reason for a lumpectomy was to rid my body of any tumor load but just ridding the body of the tumor doesn't rid us of the disease.  I have also had melanoma (twice) and basil cell carcinoma (numerous).  These weren't metastasis, they were primaries seven yrs apart (the melanoma.)  My doctors told me I need to closely watch for other cancers, namely breast and colon because statistics show that melanoma patients also present with these cancers.  That's why I says it's a systemic disease which localizes.  

Is that true that the majority never see a recurrence or metastasis?  That is what we can all only hope for. 

Beesie, what are your stats on that?  I have obviously had a recurrence but seeing stats on that would definitely help give some hope.

impositive:  The majority of BC patients who have had some (surgery) or further (chemo/radiation/hormonal therapies) tx are the ones I was referring to as not having a recurrence or mets.  I may be wrong, but I believe the stats show this to be true.

I just dont know about the genetics theory.  The majority of bc patients have no family history.  But I do see what you mean.  I was never ill either and still and I'm still healthy (knock wood, lol) except for the cancer, though I'm probably not exposed to germs that way you are since you work around them.  BUT, I was highly stressed and didn't treat my body right and believe I did have a breakdown of my immune system. 

The immune system is capable of destroying random cancer cells with mitochondria/ white blood cell attack..it is when cancer cells have the right environment in which to form a tumour, that we then have 'cancer'. The 'cancer' then sends out enzymes to help disguise it from our immune system. Tcell therapy works by attempting to reboot our tcells. The new scientific interest in Metformin as a treatment for cancer works on the 'newly found' mitochondria inside cancer cells. Diet, can have the same positive outcomes as metformin in diabetes trials...

Breast cancer is a process of triggers (they think)..genetic predisposition/living near a refinery/diet/infection maybe...or alcohol consumption/early puberty/genetic predisposition/stress...there are risk factors, thats all they know...but it is a process of change on a cellular level, that will or will not eventually manifest as Breast Cancer, depending on your exposure to varying risk factors. It is possible, i believe, to change some of those factors in your life.

If I think about the history of my bc, it would go like this.  I was on birth control pills for 20 years, had a hysterectomy, then was on HRT for another 20 years, synthetic premarin only, not balanced by progestrone.  I was healthy, active, little or no weight gain, rarely had colds or flu.  My immune system was functioning at optimal levels.  My only issue was a thyroid problem, created after I had the hysterectomy.  I am on meds for that.

 In 2010 I had a series of things happen to me.  First I was stung by bees about five times over the summer with systemic reactions to each one, but did not seek medical treatment.  Late in the summer I got shingles and was put on an anti viral to stop it from spreading (my immune system took care of it nicely).  Around the same time I got a very bad UTI and was on antibiotics for that.  My immune system was working overtime.  I make the mistake of getting a flu shot while all this was going on, which I think further compromised my immune system.  Coincidentallly, I had a suspicious mammo that year, but was cleared after a closer look.  After coming back to Fl that winter, I had several upper respiratory infections, one which required additional antibiotics.  My blood tests that year showed a high CRP level which is indicative of high imflammation in my body, as well as very low levels of vitamin D.

I immediately started a supplementation program of Vitamin D-3, changed from synthetic HRT to bioidenticals, but didn't really change any of my eating habits which included carbs and sweets.  My mammo in 2011 was once again suspicious, and this time it was not resolved.  The area of concern was the same area that was noticed in 2010 but cleared.  Now I have very early stage bc.

I can't help but think that this small pre cancer was in there all along but was kept in check by my healthy immune system.  It was only after my series of immune compromising events that it began to get out of control to the point that it began to show up as a small developing bc.  

All that being said, it was a huge wake up call for me to change my diet and lifestyle so that I can keep this from happening again.  Already my vitamin D levels are up to the normal range, as is my CRP level.  I have lost a lot of weight that I carried around my middle that was probably producing and storing estrogen.  I'm due to have the lumpectomy soon and pray that will take care of it.  If I need to consider radiation, I will give it serious thought, but to put chemo or other anti hormonal drugs into my body and compromise what I have worked hard to improve, will not be an option for me at this juncture.   

New research suggests that chemo 'can save the life of 1 in 3 women with breast cancer' the lancet today meta analysis of forty years of bc trials also suggests no evidence of long term outcomes being adversly affected.

Thanks i didn't know how to post that link