For how long was the tumor growing before diagnosis?
Looking back, I'm sure the gyn detected my lump the previous year, 6/09, but we blew it off because of my age, 36 at the time. When I was diagnosed this year, 6/10, the tumor in the breast was 1.3cm but 1cm in one lymph node and 4mm in a second one. So I think I had it growing at least one year, and probably more like 2 or more years. I think I read, it takes about a year to grow to a detectable mass. Which means I started growing it as soon as I stopped nursing my baby boy; maybe the hormonal changes triggered it.
I hear a lot of triple negatives say their lumps grew incredibly fast, within months, and I wonder if those are the ones who respond best to chemotherapy. I was trying to argue to my oncologist that I'm in a higher risk group because I've had the tumor longer but she didn't buy it. So I wanted to poll you all if you guys would guess how long your tumor was growing before your diagnosis, and what your treatment was.
I wish in retrospect that I had tried to argue for neoadjuvant chemo so I could see if the tumor responds to the chemo at all. I don't know why that's not the standard?
Comments
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Ah, the $1,000,000 question! Each of my doctors have told me something different. I had mammos every year since I was 40 and never even a call back. No cancer whatsoever on either side of my family - ever. I missed my yearly (february of every year) mammo in 2008 as my daughter was very ill and hospitalized. I figured since I had no family history of cancer, breast or otherwise, and mammo's always been fine, I was ok and would just go the following year. I went and I had damn breast cancer - go figure. Mammo showed it -1.2 cm 5 cms below the nipple so it was never palpable. Had biopsy next day, and sure enough - triple neg - no nodes (if that even really matters). My BS said I got it within the year I didn't have my mammo. My gyno said it's probably been growing for years, Onc said maybe a year. So who the heck knows. My 2007 mammo was perfectly clear - we went over it together. I did have to have a re-excision for two clean magins after initial lumpectomy - which did have DCIS in them, same triple neg, grade, etc. If my IDC grew from the DCIS - which I assume it did, who knows how long that all took. I wish I knew when that sucker called my right breast it's home, but doubt that I ever will.
Linda
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My tumor(s) showed up between mammograms. With that said I was a few months late getting it, but had done my yearly appointment with my primary who did an exam and didn't feel anything. I found my lump in April, thought it was a cyst didn't worry about it, but when I did start thinking I should check it out I didn't call the doctor because I had a mammo scheduled and it was painful and cancer does hurt..........right??? Honestly, I don't think my tumor had been there very long or detectable very long.
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Different docs will say different things. My doc told me a cancer takes 3-4 years to form. Others have said 10 years.
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jlee..great question...I dunno..I think with triple negatives they grow very very fast..if you look at the first couple of pages on the calling all tn's thread you will find that most of us had clean mammos and found the lumps ourselves..personally..I had a clean mammo in August of 09..then this lump came out of nowhere 5 months later..it was 1.8 cm...I still honestly feel...that if I would have waited I would not be posting this to you today...triple neg tumors are not slow growing...I think our oncs need to educate themselves better about triple negative breast cancer..it needs to be caught quickly and chemoed and radiated aggressively and immediately...JMHO....
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my gyn says most bc's have been growing anywhere from 6 to 10 years before they are detected
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The link below is to a radiology text book posted on google books. The author of the book is a world renowned radiologist in Boston. Paste the link into your browser and flip to page 93.
Bascially, the grade of the tumor determines the speed at which it grows. So, for an aggressive tumor (grade 3, see pg. 93), it will take approximately 6 years for the tumor to grow from the first invasive cell to two centimeters. For an intermediate grade tumor (grade 2, see pg. 93), it will take roughly 14 years for a tumor to grow from the first invasive cell to two centimeters and for a low grade (grade 1 tumor, see pg. 94) it will take about 19 years - from first invasive cell to two centimeters. And years before it becomes an invasive tumor it is DCIS, non invasive breast cancer. Two observations: the present detection methods suck; second, according to this, I had non invasive BC when I was in high school.
Wishing you all good health and many happy days to come- J
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My tumor was not visible on my 2008 mammogram and was there on my 2009 mammogram. 1.5 cm. I had 8 yearly mammograms(starting at age 40) before my tumor showed up.
Mary
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I found lump and went to my GP, she sent me for U/S. Radiologist said it was very suspicious mass and scheduled biopsy for the next day. she sent me for mammogram that pm and mammo came clear, no signs of malignancy. She did biopsy anyway and came back as cancer. I decided to go with double mastectomy and they found three cancers. Radiologist did suggested two very close to each either. One was 1.3 cm, other 1 cm. third one was 0.2 cm.
I can understand mammo not picking up one that was 0.2 cm, but the other two were close together and over 2 cm combined. They said dense breasts.
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Thanks for this question. I am sort of in a similar position as you, Jlee. I'm 37 and my ob/gyn found a lump when i was pregnant with my younger son, in Oct 2008. Sent me off to a surgical oncologist, who completely blew me off (it was a very small lump, and no history in my family, etc).
Flash forward 2 years, i've just weaned my (now 18 month old) son, and voila, lump at 1 cm. IDC, Triple Neg Grade 3. I'm scheduled for lumpectomy and SNB on Dec 20th. But I have asked every doc I've met so far if it could be the same lump (it was pea sized, or even smaller in Oct 2008, and 1 cm in Nov 2010). I've received a different answer every time.
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I have had a regular mammo since I was 40, like clockwork, always in my birthday month. I was ejected from a horse's back on Columbus Day and broke my back. The trauma doc saw a suspicious mass on my right breast on the CT scan of my back, 3 months before my yearly scheduled mammo. My tumor had grown 1.6 cm in nine months. My radiologist reviewed with me the previous year's mammo which was digital. He said he still didn't think he missed anything...
The day of my lumpectomy surgery, the radiologist said he had found a second tumor that looked closer to the original tumor on the CT scan than it did on the ultrasound. The unbiopsied 2nd tumor was too far away from the cancerous 1st tumor which made a lumpectomy unfeasible unless they biopsied the second tumor. I wanted to save my breast, so I opted for the second biopsy. My breast looked like swiss cheese, 9 samples were taken. All were benign. A week later I had the lumpectomy with a SN dissection, which was followed by an AUX dissection, 17 nodes taken with 2 positive.
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I notice that those above who have other than TN have heard their tumors have grown for years. Triple Negative is so different in so many ways. I think that fast-growing is more common for us.
Similar story to others - found my own lump - thought it was a cyst because cancer doesn't hurt (mine felt like a bruise) so I didn't go for exam or mammo until 3 months later. Biopsy showed a fast-growing cancer and my onc. and surgeon believe it had been growing less than a year.
I think that nobody knows... that each case is different... that each dr. has an opinion... and there will be research to validate whatever they want.
I had a mast. followed by 4 months of chemo. I had to stop a month early due to severe side effects. My onc. consulted with others and they decided not to do rads. The nurse hugged me and said, "God Bless you..." with tears in her eyes. Didn't give me a lot of confidence!
But it's a year later and I'm here and doing well... did not have reconstruction but am beginning to question that decision.
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i am not a triple neg but am interested in this question.yearly mammos for at least 15 yrs, hx of breast reduction in the 80's. i presented with bloody nipple drainage late night/early am may2009, went to er, told it was an infection, not treated. went to primary doc that same day who referred me to a breast surgeon who referred me to a general surgeon. ultrasound done in office, given antibiotics, told to return if worsens,improved some. begining of june saw gyn who ordered diagnostic mammo and ultrasound. it showed an area of concern at my breast at 6 oclock of 1 cm, but told it was imflammation from an infection, told to follow up in 6 months. sept 2009 i still felt something was not right.caled gyn, told will get a ductogram, another radiologist looked at my mammo/ultra and stated wanted an mri done instead. mri done and 7 cm cancerous tumor found at 6 oclock on my breast. am i looking into this further, you bet i am.
ray
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I found my lump in December 2005 and it was dime sized. It did seem to sort of come out of nowhere. The jerk doctor told me it was nothing....two years two months later I was diagnosed. It didn't clearly show up on a mamo even at diagnosis. During the over two years it spread inside my breast and to my nodes.
So chemo chemo chemo. Bilat and rads. My kids are really young and I am the only parent so I went really aggressive.
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I can tell you that my 2nd case of breast cancer grew in a matter of months (and yes, I'm triple negative). I had a bilateral mastectomy for DCIS (ER/PR negative) in Aug 09. I had my exchange in Dec 09. In April 2010 I found 3 small lumps on the side of my right breast (close to where I had DCIS. They ended up being malignant. The largest one was 0.6 cm and invasive. The other 2 were DCIS, but I had lymphatic invasion (nothing in my lymph nodes, Thank God! Those tumors were never present on my mammos, ultrasounds or breast MRI's. I went to my plastic surgeon for a check up. 3 weeks later I felt the lumps and saw him that day. He didn't feel them 3 weeks prior. Crazy!!!!
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I'm triple postive but I was told my grade 3, 5.5 cm tumor was very fast growing for 4 years. 4 years prior I had a mammogram then US because they switched from analog to digital mammos and thought they saw something. Everyone decided it was nothing and had mammos after that… too bad they were wrong. The tumor was in the same spot.
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Thanks Heidi - I did check out some recent research and here's a quote: "TN tumors often present as interval cancer and, in turn, are detected more frequently through clinical examination than with a mammogram or an ultrasound, which is suggestive of rapid growth and tissue density similar to normal tissue. Even small-size tumors present a high incidence of lymph node involvement ." I found this study which was published Oct. 22, 2010. http://breast-cancer-research.com/content/12/S2/S3
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This is really interesting. I am so curious as to how long mine was growing. I find it difficult to believe that mine, or any other 1-2cm tumor, can grown in less than a year. My guess that that mammograms are simply missing them, rather than that they grow that quickly.
My tumor was triple negative, grade 3, 98% Ki67 - a really fast grower. Still, from the time of the initial measurement during the ultrasound until surgery (20 days) it did not change in size. Based on that, I am thinking it had to be growing for at least a couple of years.
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I'm 38, my mom had breast cancer at 33, so I started doing mams at 35 or 36. Had one in October 2009, nothing showed. Had a physical in April 2010 with a breast exam, nothing felt. 7 months later, November 2010, 2.7cm tumor. Crazy, how could I not have noticed it? Wish I would have actually done my self exams, but I figured since I was getting mams it wasn't that important. My cancer felt bruise like too - they need to take that off of the cancer info. Some cancers do hurt. It's mis-leading.
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I had a clear digital mammo about 1 yr 4 months prior to diagnosis. I think I did a self exam at least six months prior to my 2.5 cm lump being found by me - putting on a bra -but cannot be sure about that.
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The mammograms cannot see through dense breast tissue!!! That is why you never saw it in the first place!!! The docs do not know how to really do exams.. We and they need to learn a better way to look for masses not just little pea like lumps!! My breast was more like a intertube not a lump and YES TN hurts!!! Look at the other discussion boards.. everyone talks about TN hurting!!!
it comes fast and the mammo does not see it!!! That is why everyone needs to do self exams!! this is why we all need to know if we have DENSE breasts!!!!! Dense breast tissue is 6 x more likely to get cancer!!!! GO TO AREYOUDENSE.ORG AND READ ALL THEIR STORIES!!!
D.E.N.S.E.NY TOO.. WE ARE TRYING TO PASS LAWS THROUGH THIS COUNTRY!! MAMMOGRAMS ARE NOT ENOUGH!!!
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Agree with you Towny! I remember my ob/gyn telling me since I began mammos at 36 that I had dense breasts..so..my question is now..why didn't I have MORE than mammos done? I had (as I stated earlier) a clean mammo in 8/08..found the lump in 1/09...I think that something had to be there..on the other hand...I believe that tn tumors grow quickly...it's like one day you are fine the next day you have a big tumor in your breast...
I think we all need to get the awareness out there..start with your friends and your relatives..I will be INSISTING on this with my daughter...
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Titan
GET ON AREYOUDENSE.ORG SHARE YOUR STORY!!!
D.E.N.S.E.NY AND OTHER STATES!!! ARE TRYING TO PASS BILLS
THEY ARE ON FACEBOOK... CA, TX, FL AND OTHER STATES ARE TRYING TO DO THE SAME THING!!
E MAIL NOREEN FRASER AT STAND UP FOR CANCER
E MAIL DENISE GRADY AT THE NY TIMES
WE ARE ALL TRYING TO GET THE WORD OUT TO THE BIG DOGS!!!!
DR. OZ TOO!!!!
PLEASE EVERYONE SEND E MAILS TO EVERYONE GET ON FACEBOOK!!!!
SHARE THIS STUFF TO EVERYONE!!!
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I don't have dense breasts. I had yearly mammos. I do self-exams. I am not TN so I'm butting in here, but I hope you don't mind. I do not believe my tumor grew for years.
I honestly don't know what to think of the "calculations" about how long a tumor takes to grow. For example: as quoted from the text above: If a grade 3 tumor takes 6 years to get to two cm why was mine not detected -- by anyone, including me -- until it hit 2 cm? I found it myself, and not even during a monthly exam, but when my hand brushed across my breast and I felt a lump. One month, nothing; in less than a month, a 2 cm lump. It seems like I would have felt it sooner than 2 cm (it wasn't far below the surface) if it was taking 6 years to grow. I'd had a few cysts in the past and was always diligent about anything out of the ordinary. Do I believe the whole thing grew in less than a month? No... but I'm having trouble understanding why/how a smaller (say, 1 cm lump just below the surface) wouldn't have been noticed by me sooner.
AND... if they can't detect the cancer until it hits a certain point.. then how the heck do they know when it started growing? How can they say it takes 6 years or 10 years or whatever? Seems like theory, not science to me.
I haven't read the details nor all the research on this, but most of what I hear seems to fall under the heading "theory" and hasn't been proven yet... feel free to guide me to the scientific literature (not popular media stories) if you have information otherwise. I always felt a bit guilty that I didn't find it sooner if, as they say, it really took 6 years to get there.
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I had a clean mammogram in Oct and was diagnosed with a 3 cm tumor almost exactly 2 months later that I discovered on my own..I have been getting mammograms for the last 7 years and am 43
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humm Wish I knew, nothing showed up in 2009 but did in 2010, I have been faithfull on my mammagrams for the last 19 years.
Nancy
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My mom has an intense fear of doctors so she didn't get her lump checked out for over a year. She saw a steady progression of size but always chalked it up to an infection. At 51, she had never had a mammogram. By the time she got it checked out the tumor was the size of a grapefruit (she had DD breasts) and had actually started to break through the skin. (TMI I know) Everytime she has had even a short break in chemo, the longest was 4 weeks, it took off like wildfire and reappeared or spread.
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Naturegrrl, hi all, its late and i dont have the info at hand, but basically what i,ve read is that the first cancer cell doubles onto itself and so on, so 1 x 2, 2 x 2, 4 x 4, this is already 22 cells, so basically the larger the tumor, the faster it grows. if i can find the info, i,ll pass it on. basically, it takes more than 10 years for a tumor to reach 1cm. i was under the impression that the HER was one of the growth factors, i read that there are others, but they are not being done...?
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This question has been nagging me since I was first diagnosed and even more now that I have my final pathology report after mastectomy. I have been getting annual mammos AND ultrasounds due to dense breasts for the last six years since I turned 40. In 2006 I did have a biopsy on left breast for calcifications which they said was benign. My last mammo and US was at the end of December 2010 and I was told there were no issues. In May 2011 my gyn feels a very palpable lump on left breast. It was extensive DCIS 4.6 cm with microinvasion, grade 1. Because of the size of the DCIS I was advised to have a mastectomy. One breast surgeon told me it was interval cancer, but how is that possible if it was low grade and I am ER positive and HER2 negative? How could such a large DCIS be missed on BOTH mammo and US for years?
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I'm just wondering how IBC fits in here? I thought that it was the fastest growing breast cancer and that you can see changes in days? Correct?
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