Let's chug on over to mamby-pamby land

Anonymous · May 2011

Does anyone wonder why we need moderators? Would the board come tumbling down if we moderated ourselves? Oh, that's right we can't. And how much do these moderators get paid. I can't help but feel that I'm being called to the principals office and a note will be sent home to my mother for acting up in class. I think that a lot of folks here have multiple personality disorders. One minute they are sharing sob stories and the next they're joking around about asparagus, tin foil hats and chickens. My surgery was nothing compared to the verbal lobotomy you have bestowed upon me here. What I've learned here is that women are a bunch of back-stabbing bitches. When someone reaches out for help here, the response usually begins with, I'm so sorry that you had to come here. We are here for you (that is unless you disagree with the experts who have made it their task to offer you hugs and present you with a list of what to do or not do. Isn't that why we have doctors who are paid big bucks? Unless of course you are proud Canadians or from the UK where everything is free except you have to wait forever to get treated. You've got breast cancer. Deal with it. I'm probably going to end up kicking the bucket because I waited too long for treatment that I wasn't willing to do. After listening to all the awful stories about the side effects why the heck would I want to. I do believe that I am the only one who has taken my breasts in my own hands and said, "I just don't give a rat's ass what the outcome is." I bet there are a lot of people here who have been dealt a lot of tragedies. I for one have watched my first husband die beside me in bed. My present husband's father was sent to Auschwitz, a concentration camp during the holocaust and recently died of pancreatic cancer. And there were no support groups when he found himself all alone because his family was gassed. So, here's a box of tissues. And you can have a ball reporting this to the BIG MODERATORS. I'm shaking in my boots!

Mazy1959 · May 2011

Mindovermatter..I can only speak for myself. When someone new comes on, yes I am sorry they had to come here and I am here for them. Usually the new person starts out by sharing her diagnosis, fear of the unknown, the treatment plan etc. As a caring human being, I reach out as best I can to help calm fears. I always hope that decisions made are educated ones and yes I question things that just don't sound right. There will always be times that people disagree with one another. I certainly do not claim to be a breast cancer expert.

Sometimes we have fun and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Many of us like to joke around about the many cancer cures we've been told about etc. Call it what you may but chickens, foil hats, asparagus and the cure guy are funny to many of us. I don't live my life with "I have Breast Cancer" stamped on my forehead. I don't spend all my days in mourning because I have cancer. Laughter and being light hearted makes me feel better. There have been many days that I have felt down until I clicked on the thread talking about chickens etc. A good laugh is all many of us need sometimes.

And yes, some of the cancer treatments are not appealing at all. But the focus is always on doing the treatments and hopefully killing those cancer cells. I'm alive because I take Aromasin. Most likely you had already heard about cancer treatments in general long before you had cancer. Certainly this wasn't the first time you heard how awful it can be at times.

I don't understand why you feel as you do. I can only assume. You mention that you've probably waited too long to get treatment. Its not too late to start. You can go back to your oncologist and discuss treatment again. Please understand that I am not in any way trying to tell you what to do or how to do it..I am only suggesting because I care. You seem so bitter and seem to have a way with words that brings out the bad in some people, including myself. I certainly do not take pleasure in venting at you as I did last night but you push at people long enough and they are going to push back. When you speak your mind in a rude and condescending matter....its going to push buttons on people. Maybe you just don't realize that or maybe you truly just don't care....I don't know.

And no I have not ever taken my breasts in my hands said "I don't give a rats ass what the outcome is"....because I do care..I want to live as best I can. I want to encourage members here to live also.

I'm sorry about the deaths in your family. Many of us have indeed had our share of such things. You obviously know that cancer causes suffering since you mentioned your father in law passing of pancreatic cancer. So why question the suffering of those with breast cancer? Why talk as if we're a bunch of whiners when you know enough about it that you know it is suffering sometimes? When you say things like we are "back stabbing bitches", "here's a box of Kleenex", " You've got breast cancer deal with it"...What are you hoping for by saying such things? Anyone would realize that comments such as those are only going to cause a fuss. Why would you say these things and be so rude ? Only you have the answers. I will not post on your thread again. I just wanted clarify the issues at hand. And FYI I didnt report this post either...Mazy

chrissyb · May 2011

Mindovermatter, you accuse people on here of not understanding and being mamby pamby with their answers. I too have lost loved ones to cancer one only ten days ago. I lost my father, brother and son also.......do you think I don't understand? I do.

I had terrible reactions to chemo and Tamoxifen so much so I ended up in hospital but seven and a half years later I'm still here although I am now stage IV. My intention is to stay here for a whole lot longer.

We need moderators because it seems that some people cannot keep their mouth shut and delight in stirring the pot so to speak and it is for these people that the moderators need to step in at times. They also liaise between the boards and the technicians to help things running smoothly..........I know you are not an idiot so would have presumed you would have known this.

The decisions you make regarding your own treatment or lack there of is your decision and if you don't need the support and friendship of the women on this site......why are you here? Or do you now regret the decisions that you've made and want to turn back the clock. If that is what you truly want, it's not too late to seek help from the medical community and support from the women here.

I wish you all the best in what ever you choose.

Peace, strength, love n hugs. Chrissyb

debbie6122 · May 2011

Mindovermatter- You sound like you are a very angry unhappy person right now, I'm sorry for your loss as well, we or most of us have lost dear ones Sorry (ChrissyB for your recent loss) I have lost a mother and sister so i know how you feel, but to come here and call us names for trying to help other people and also having a little laughter in our lives to help us get through this is uncalled for, every one needs a little laughter and humor to get through our hard times, no matter what it is.Im also curious as to why you stay here if you dont like our post?? I dont know how i would of got through everything had it not been for the wonderful kind woman here to give me support and it makes me feel good to help the "Newbies" when they come here for support and some one who understands. We need the moderaters to make sure things stay in control and keep the spammers away, i personally dont care what they get paid anymore than i care what you get paid if you have a job, its really none of our bussiness and they do put up with a lot of drama. I hope and pray you will find some peace and happiness in your life, there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

BarbaraA · May 2011

I think OP should get over herself and find somewhere else to antagonize people.

Shrek4 · May 2011

Mindovermatter,

Try and get over yourself. You're not the only one here who has gone through a lot of crap in her life, or who has known someone who has gone through a lot of crap (how does that make YOU better I can't fathom).

If you dont' like these boards, why are you here? Why did you even write that post? Do you really think that a forum with over 90K members will change to suit your needs and moods?

You're here because you need support or advice or just to chat along? Good. You're here to bitch about how we are? Don't let the door hit you too hard on your way out.

We are all moody here, we are all needy in one form or another (or we wouldn't be here), we all have crappy days, we're all scared of this disease, we all try to make life decisions, we all question if we did take the right decision in the past, so get over it. You're nothing special.

Dilly · May 2011

Mind over Matter - we are on a free board, provided for us by others. It behooves us all to behave like the guests we are. I wish you well.

Wabbit · May 2011

I remember how it was 5 years ago when I found this board and got answers to my questions, The practical stuff that the doctors never bother to tell you mostly. Saved my sanity it did I've made friends here and yes we do have a good time just being foolish sometimes.

I don't feel any need to justify any of it. The board is here ... it's free ... take what you want and walk away from the rest.

We need moderators because sometimes people seem to come here just to stir up drama. Or to kick people when they are down. I've seen several of these "I'm just great ... you all are not ... blah, blah, blah" posts. Not impressed with any of them. While you are looking for problems ... look in the mirror. Stay - leave - belittle - clap your hands ... whatever ... everybody here has dealt with worse than these little games.

otter · May 2011

Ah, yes... True colors.

Re: "I think that a lot of folks here have multiple personality disorders. One minute they are sharing sob stories and the next they're joking around about asparagus, tin foil hats and chickens. My surgery was nothing compared to the verbal lobotomy you have bestowed upon me here. What I've learned here is that women are a bunch of back-stabbing bitches."

Sweetie, if you're going to insult women on these boards, you might at least spell the words correctly. It's "namby-pamby" (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/namby-pamby). I could ask what part of the word "support" you don't understand, but, what's the point? The title of this particular forum is "Depression, Anxiety and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder: Meet and support others who are affected by these issues," but your posts here have been anything but supportive.

Reporting your opening post on this thread would be too kind. Sometimes it's better to let things speak for themselves. And, no, I don't wonder why this Board needs moderators. At times like this, the reasons are pretty obvious.

otter

otter · May 2011

WTF??? Two days ago, the OP posted these comments in another thread on this forum:

"I totally agree with amontro. This breast cancer bologna has to stop. It has become a circus. I was diagnosed in October which as you all know is BC Awarness Month. God, that was horrible! It was on TV 24/7. I sure wish there was a way to stop it. But how?"

and

"Personally, I don't believe in walks, runs or pinking. I do feel for anyone dealing with both the emotional and physical pain of bc. It could be me. I just think that if for someone who is moving beyond and wants to forget the label, then we need to applaud them."

What happened since then?

otter

[Edited for spontaneously generated formatting errors.]

Beesie · May 2011

There are lots of women on this board, and lots of different opinions. It's natural that there will be disagreement, debate and sometimes some pretty heated exchanges. There's nothing wrong with that and in fact personally I find those types of discussions to be interesting and educational.

Most of us can disagree and share our different views of the world without being judgemental, without being rude, without showing contempt for those whose opinions differ from ours, without mocking or degrading those we disagree with, without being mean or cruel, without suggesting that those who think differently are stupid or wrong or damaged or not as emotionally advanced as we are (either generally or specific to how we deal with BC). Where I draw the line is when the discussion turns disrespectful and unfortunately there are a few people here who are not able to disagree or offer differing opinions without being insulting and unsupportive. And yup, when someone does that a bit too much - either directed at someone else or directed at me - like most flawed human beings, I tend to react in kind.

Honestly, I wonder about people who cross this line on a regular basis. Do they not see the harm and distress that they are causing? Or if they see it, do they really not care? Even from a selfish standpoint, do they not understand that there are much better ways to get their point across? I also wonder about those people who don't this see the disrespect when it's being dished out by others. How can you not be bothered when somebody hurts someone who is already hurting and in distress?

To me it comes down to three things:

Support - It's possible to be supportive even when you are disagreeing with someone.

Respect - Always important but particularly so when you are disagreeing.

Empathy - This is the toughest one but I believe is the most critical of all. We need to be able to identify with someone else's feelings and emotions even when those feelings and emotions are completely foreign to us. When empathy is missing, usually respect and support is too.

If all posts were empathetic, I think there would be no need for the Moderators. Except for controlling the spammers, of course, but then anyone who comes to a breast cancer support site to spam obviously has no empathy.

Alpal · May 2011

MOM - you and your buddy JB have somehow resisted the urge to post belittling comments on the Pallative and Stage IV forums. I suppose we should all be grateful, but I wonder why you would post on the Depression, Anxiety, and PTSD forum. Do you enjoy kicking people when they're already down? If depression, anxiety or PTSD are not a problem for you then I would suggest you post your demeaning comments elsewhere.

elimar86861 · May 2011

mindovermatter, In one fell swoop, you have been insulting to the moderators, most of the women on the website, the Canadian pride and the healthcare system of the U.K. But you KNEW, if you aired all that here, the kind of response it would generate, so for the second time in a week I am wondering why someone is trying so hard to solicit negative attention?

In the first case I am thinking of, the thread originator took a passive aggressive approach and got many sympathetic responses. This one takes a more aggressive tone, so the fur's gonna fly. But in my mind, both were just attention seeking ploys.

The Moderators probably won't appreciate me saying this, but if you truly loathe what BC.org has to offer, then wouldn't you just walk away rather than actually post something? If you don't like the meal, get up from the table.

I'm not on a "side" here. The part of me that loves personal expression feels like you have every right to post your real feelings (that's also the part that loves your avatar pic.) Another part of me wonders "Where's your website and can I have free reign on it?"

I will say you missed the point with the comment on how we stray off the B/C topics. When I post on these threads, and it might be about Cheetos, labyrinths or mermaids, B/C is never far from my mind, but you get to a point where it is detrimental to dwell on that all day, every day. Do not begrudge it when a woman needs the diversion.

The last time I wrote "snap out of it" on here, it was taken as rude, but I am just trying to be straightforward here. I'll post this one comment, my opinion, that's it. I won't post another. I don't like to keep feeding into it or keep threads like this going.

duckyb1 · May 2011

I am so disheartened by all this......I am so tempted to not come back here, but it is the wonderful ladies who supported me 3 months ago when I so needed support that got me to where I am today...

I remember when my mother said to me "your father has cancer", and then a year later hearing the Dr. say to me "your Mother has cancer", and 7 years later "your husband has Pancreatic cancer"......So sitting there that Feb. 15th, alone in a small room, waiting for someone they called a "Nurse Navigator" to come on, only said to me "this is not good".. I tried to be hopeful, but I couldn't...I'd been down that road too many times before.

When the Nurse Navigator came into the room, and said "you need a BS", I was numb, although not surprised.....Together we walked down the hall to the cancer Center, and there I was to meet with a BS, someone I had never seen before...........I remember calling my daughter from my cell phone and saying ";it doesn't look good, I'm waiting for a BS".......

I won't go on about what took place from that day on, but I do know this........in trying to find out online "where my was life was headed", I came across this website..........So many women like me, some Newbies, some in treatment, some doing poorly, but still trying, and yet stories of some who lost the battle.............

I felt so welcomed here, and I could name names, but I won't........99% of the women on here have helped me get to this point in my life............Did I want to be here, "My God no", did I want to sit alone in that BS's office, that day, which took me back to the many times I heard the bad news about someone else I loved........I thought "now its my turn".........................I cried for days........didn't sleep, didn't eat, sat in a robe tll noon. petrified as hours went into days, and days into weeks, of wondering and worrying.

Was I the "brave little soldier", no I wasn't.............Am I today..............no, I'm not..........but I am trying to take it "one day at a time"............do I have horrible days.........absolutely.........I have no

idea where this path is going to lead.............but while I'm here I will give it my best shot.........

So for the people who have the bad days "rant on".......and for the people who say "I never think, about it, I'm doing wonderful.....good for you, but keep in mind there are those out there who are not having good days, so at least have the respect to address these women with civility and kindness remember that any day you could be walking in their shoes..........knowing that

THERE BUT BY THE GRACE OF GOD GO I.............

This is know.............you ladies have helped me tremendously, and I will ever be grateful, for when I needed a friend, I found all of you..............To all the mothers out there Happy Mother's Day...........................

pil · May 2011

This web site is a blessing and I want to say without it I probably would drive my loved ones away because of my fears and unanswered questions right now I would be bothering them with.

Yes, I am new here just this week. I truly am amazed at the wonderful,beautiful women and men I have come across. Just last night another member here a pm'd me. I found out she lives about 30 miles from where I am at. Also, she has the same bc Dr I will have, WOW thats so awesome and she told me how good the Dr is. That set a part of me at ease. On top of this forum being a great source of information as I am quickly learning, the women are willing to share. If all they can say at the time "I am sorry" I will accept that. I truly appreciate the response but many are so willing to share. Thank you all for this.

Addressing the actual thread author, I have another side of me that says......

MOM JBin OK seem so much alike they could be one person. If your not the same person, then pull yourself off the pittypot you accuse us for staying on and join the women here. We dont have to be tough and badass to survive this. We can cry, be scared, talk about our fears and still be women of strength. This is part of what makes us special as women. Now, if you come here to belittle us and post in an angry tone then it will make me think your in this for entertainment value out of bordom. Please cease these kinds of demeaning posts. It does not strengthen you at all. It just contaminates the spirit of women and hope.

Lastly, MOM I am so positive there are many people on this site who has gone through a hell hole as well. All you need to do is to befriend many here and open your heart.

Women for the most part are very forgiving. Its those who are drama queens that have more of an issue I have learned.

Yes, its a wonderful day because we have a chance to make a difference in our lives that affect others.

Peace and LOTS of Love & Understanding.

Pil

Wabbit · May 2011

Just a suggestion ... but there is a 'Moving Beyond' forum. That would seem to be a good discussion place for those who have gotten past the treatment, don't have to deal with depression, and don't care for the humor threads. Start a thread about ways to get beyond bc and get on with your life maybe?

I do have to say mindovermatter that you seem to be very good at finding funny pictures for the OMG thread

The thing here is to be mindful of 'where' you are on the board and adjust your response accordingly. If you really cannot empathize with those who are dealing with the emotional aspects of all this in ways different than you would the kind thing to do is just say nothing. I happen to be practical to a fault but I know that just because that is what works for me it is not the best coping method for everybody else. So I try hard not to rush in with a bunch of practical suggestions when it is the emotional aspects that need to be addressed. That is out of my league honestly and I leave that to others who can be more helpful.

mindovermatter ... I believe there is something here for everybody. I may have been too hard on you earlier? Somebody reported a post of yours to the moderators and hurt your feelings ... Understood. You have lashed back here ... I think it was a bad idea ... but Understood again. Now I hope you can step back and just be a little more aware of the emotional undercurrents and find a place here that meets your needs.

Peace.

Bren-2007 · May 2011

Rabbit .. thanks for eloquently writing my feelings on this matter as well.

I'm a long time member too and very grateful for all the friendships and support I've received over the years.

Bren

pil · May 2011

Rabbit, very well put and your good with words. What about a forum with a title, I'm Angry and want to Vent. Yell I certainly may use this area myself.

imbell · May 2011

A gathering of minds is never an orderly occurrence. That is what makes us who we are, the human race. The fact that thousands of women can share their stories is amazing. Humor is good. Don't like a thread don't read it. . And quit telling everybody else what to do. Some people have been brain washed as children to only color within the lines and won't let anyone else have an opinion. I have to point out to my DH that we have freedom of speech. It has taken 46 years.

P.S. the way to take your mind of your cancer is to have a relative be diagnosed with an even worse outcome.

Anjanita · May 2011

I've got a list of woes as long as anyone's.

That and a buck twenty-five will buy me a coke.

Don't ya just hate that?

Edited to add, "Jackwagon!"

duckyb1 · May 2011

Pil............Here I go again.............Sorry we had to meet like this, but you came to a good spot.........I know sometimes it doesn't seem that way (as you will find out), but the majority of the women here will lift you when you are down, make you laugh when you want to laugh, and will cry with you when you can't possible laugh......................I found compassion, comfort, kindness, and genuine caring here.............The women here took my hand, and walked me down a path that I know without them, and my loving family I could have never walked............

I will just say this without trying to sound like I "know it all"........Right now, in the beginning it all seems more then you can handle, but honestly as I was told, the more you find out the more of a plan you can make...........once you feel in control of your life, and learn more and more, it does become easier to handle.............

I am not trying to make this sound like a "walk in the park", because God knows it isn't", but it is doable...........each step is a new one, and each adventure down the path a learning experinece.......

We have this disease, to deny it is ridiculous, to embrace it would be hypocritical (we hate it), but to understand it, makes it easier.

I never thought I would get to the part I'm at now, but I'm doing Rads..........scared to death, bought my creams, and honestly I don't ever think I have checked my boobs out more in my 76 years then I have in the past 10 days, waiting for the "horror to appear".............so far so good, and I am hopeful it will continue (doubtful, since I'm being fried), but my inspiritation is hearing about the women on here who had "no problems", but learning from the ones who had "many problems".................

Come here as many times as you need too, there ;will always be someone with an open heart to listen, and advise, and others who will listen, and just hug you...........for the ones who listen and critisize, ignore them.................those are few

Hugs to you.

duckyb1 · May 2011

Meaning to Embrace......................To hold closely.........to wrap ones arms around, as with affection.......................It will be a cold day in hell, when I Embrace, or "Hold Close", the cancer that has happen to me...........................To each his own...........if I'm gonna embrace something, it will be something I love, and for me to say I love cancer is hypocritical................and just because I can't change something does not mean I may as well Wrap my Arms around it..............

Example.................We could not change what happened on September 11, but is there anyone of us out there who Wrapped its arms around it"....................doubt that..........

I can't change my diagnosis, but I can deal with it, like so many other ladies on this website..........but Embrace it...............NEVER......................I find no blessing in it.......but I am also not an emotional victim................and I still say anyone who says they don't have bad days when yourr dealing with any type of cancer is in denial..............

pil · May 2011

ducky I was getting ready to get up from this sofa when I noticed a response. your post got me all wiggly inside and dropped a couple tears. Now, I am going to work on a painting project from my art group.

Thank you have a wonderful friday ladies.

P

Anonymous · May 2011

jbinok:

"we all see BC differently; some find blessings, some become emotional victims" - no middle ground here! What about becoming a fighter, what about personal growth, or the many other things people take out of this experience. Does none of that matter?

bluedahlia · May 2011

You're all playing into her hand.

rosemary-b · May 2011

Ducky

You expressed beautifully what I was thinking when words failed me. I do not embrace cancer. The thought makes me nauseous. Seriously. I do not want to finish my lunch now. Nor am I an emotional victim. I have a rich full life and am grateful for it. I do not dwell on cancer but deal with the long term side effects as they come along and then move on, never as quickly as I wish I could.

Why am I still here? Because just about everyone I have met here has been a warm courageous woman I am proud to call my friend.

rosemary-b · May 2011

Ah Blue

Words of wisdom as usual. I might not have posted if I saw your post first. Yes it seems there is 1 woman here getting off on other peoples' pain.

pil · May 2011

Frankly, we all are random victims of cancer. But, we come in to seek support in emotional and an informative manner. Just because I may drop a tear here and there does not make me an emotional blithering victim. Nor does it render me helpless in the fight that lays ahead of me.

Your dang right, I will never embrace something that has the potential to kill me. Thats just suicide in my opinion. I will fight it and I will breakdown and cry. I have the right to do both.

So, if you want to embrace your poison cancer, go ahead dont expect me too because I don't need this kind of attention.

Peace ladies and when someone slaps you, dont turn the other cheek. KNOCK THE HELL OUT OF THEM!!!!!!!!!!!

Wabbit · May 2011

JB ... I do not believe I have ever before encountered somebody who seems to see things in such a simplistic - black and white - way. If that is what works for you fine ... but egads sometimes you sound like you are in total denial that this is anything more than a pesky head cold. Although if you had DCIS the odds are darn good ... for you ... that you can get away with just blowing it all off ... or hugging it like a stuffed animal or whatever the h*ll 'embracing' it means. Good for you ... but quit projecting that onto everybody else on this board as though anybody with a different experience is some kind of idiot. Maybe you just lack the tact, emotion and empathy genes? Are you perhaps from the planet Vulcan?

I was not 'blessed' by my cancer ... life was fine before it. Nor do I see myself as a 'victim' ... life is still good. And I've got much better things to 'embrace'. But I'm 5 years out and it's a whole different ballgame when you are smack in the middle of going through surgery, chemo and radiation treatments. We do what we have to do and get through it. And bitch, moan, groan and complain sometimes because it makes us feel a little better to acknowledge the suckiness of it all. And then we go goof off and laugh and make friends on some other threads.

Nobody is going to stop feeling what they feel because you keep telling them to suck it up ... take a hike ... and appreciate all the 'blessings' etc. And some people are going to take your more tactless comments much too seriously and get their feelings hurt ... which is the only reason to try to get through to you. Sigh.

duckyb1 · May 2011

Blue Dahlia.................your right, so right.......but excuse me, I am going off to find my "blessings" in getting this disease.............somehow I must have overlooked something.

Wait I'll stop by the dictionary.............Blessings...........something that brings happiness to your life.....................Well God help the person who found happiness in having cancer of any type.

Repeat................anyone who finds cancer being a "blessing" had a pretty "non blessed life", before cancer. If you need cancer to show you the "blessings of life", and consider cancer a "beautfiul gift", certainly must have been very disappointed on Xmas morning..............

Maybe next year at Thanksgiving I'll say "thank you God for cancer, it has so enriched my life"....bet that will get the mashed potatoes thrown my way.

You have to pity people who find cancer a blessing, a beautiful gift, or needed it to make their lives better for having had the experience........................as for me my blessings are my family......here long before cancer............my gifts my family, again, here before cancer..............my challange............to fight like hell, and do whatever it takes to continue my life with my blessings, and my gifts which I had "long before cancer"............

Blue Dahlia...............sorry sweetie, it was addressed to me, so I had to respond to such an assasiine statement. Sad isn't it that anyone would depend on cancer to find lifes gifts and blessings..................have a great Mother's Day Blue.

duckyb1 · May 2011

Pil, I'm still doing "stick people" at 76, what a gift to be able to paint......I'm so bad, I even got chased out of the room when it was time to repaint the house...........actually I thought I was pretty good myself, but when I was allowed it was only walls.............My husband would say "let your Mother do the walls, she can't mess that up".............................I had an all Stone home at one time, and the project was to re-paint the white lines between the stone...............never got to do that either.............my sons, daughters, and husband...............excuse.. "you really should not be on a ladder".

So I envy you who probably does beautiful things with an easel and a brush.........I'm not very crafty......ceramics was about it................

Thanks for you post.............and comments.........never found a blessing in cancer..

Let's chug on over to mamby-pamby land

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