Why don't Chinese women get breast cancer?

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  • sam52
    sam52 Member Posts: 950
    edited February 2011

    Jane Plant (Professor of geology....so not exactly relevant),was all the rage when I was dx in 2001. I bought into some of her hypotheses, considering that dairy products contain something called IGF-1 (insulin-like growth factor), which has been shown to encourage the growth of tumor cells in vitro. But to extrapolate to human situations is not proven or even reliable. 

    However, it is all far too simplistic, and her methodology is definitely questionable; she does not consider any other variables, such as many of those mentioned above (such as soya consumption, and other dietary factors) and she automatically touts a dairy-free diet as her saviour, when it could have been the chemo regimen.I also find it reprehensible that she 'blames' a friend who got a recurrence because she 'cheated' by eating a bit of cheese!

    Certainly the Chinese and the Japanese have lower rates of bc than many western countries.But I think there is far more to it than dairy avoidance.

    Sam

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  • Fitztwins
    Fitztwins Member Posts: 7,969
    edited February 2011

    lorieg - its yours.

    Remember when rumors of bras and deodrant gave us BC? I think there was even a study about french fries...

    Oh, I did read that asian people had higher rates of stomach cancers.

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  • MCTHO
    MCTHO Member Posts: 759
    edited February 2011

    I just saw something on Dr. Oz about hard cheese fighting against cancer. Is that a dairy product? So let me get this right, it's okay to have some dairy, just not to get carried away? I'm just putting it out there, people. All comments are welcome. 

     http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/3-secret-weapons-prevent-cancer

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited February 2011

    There's a hypothesis that the Chinese people simply lack that gene responsible for an effective breakdown of milk proteins. That is why they have exorbitantly high rate of lactose intolerance. However, other races developed that gene over a course of evolution. Why? Because they began cultivating cattle for dairy thousands of years before.

    The same reason (but in reverse) is underlying the effective breakdown of soy proteins. Caucasian bodies can hardly process soy effectively. Unlike Asians.

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  • lago
    lago Member Posts: 17,186
    edited February 2011

    Well according to Dr. Oz:

     Foods That Fight
    Cancer anti-angiogenesis foods include:

    * Green tea
    * Strawberries
    * Soybeans
    * Chocolate
    * Cinnamon

     5 Foods That Starve Cancer

    1. Bok Choy This type of Chinese cabbage contains brassinin; a powerful cancer-fighter, also found in broccoli, cauliflower and Brussels sprouts. Bok Choy should be eaten 3 times a week, in 1/2 cup servings to obtain its full benefits.

    2. Cooked Tomatoes have more cancer-fighting properties than raw tomatoes. Both contain the molecule lycopene, but heating the tomato changes its chemical structure and makes the benefits more readily available to your body. You should eat 2-3 (1/2 cup) servings of cooked tomatoes a week.

    3. Flounder This fish is rich in omega-3 fatty acids and low in mercury. Three 6-ounce servings a week is ideal.

    4. Strawberries The antioxidants in this berry help fight cancers. You should eat 1 cup a day, including the juice.

    5. Artichokes contain 3 different cancer-fighting molecules. Enjoy ¼ cup of hearts per day.
    ---------------------------------

    Dr Oz also says whole soy is good. Lots of controversy over that but there is another thread discussing soy here on BC.org:

    Whole Soy Foods (Serving size: 1-2 servings a day)

    When you're shopping, look for whole soy foods over isolated soy protein powders like fake meats with soy isolate. Try eating tofu, tempeh, soy milk, edamame and soy nuts. They're good sources of protein and help guard against hormonally driven cancers, such as prostate cancer and breast cancer.

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  • konakat
    konakat Member Posts: 6,085
    edited February 2011

    Re. Sam's post:  Interestingly there's a Phase 1 trial going on that is using insulin related growth factors to deliver chemo to the tumors. I chose not to go on it -- there was a lot of risk re. insulin levels getting out of whack.  And you had to watch what you ate -- i.e. avoid cake and all those lovely sugary things.  Yah, like I'm going to volunteer for that!!!

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  • konakat
    konakat Member Posts: 6,085
    edited February 2011

    I think I was destined for BC -- on birth control pills for about 25 years; have been hyperthyroid and now hypothyroid; never had kids; love milk.  That'll learn me!

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  • Cafelovr
    Cafelovr Member Posts: 1,534
    edited February 2011

    Elizabeth, I'm right there with you.

    On BC pills for 15 years, I love my milk, and had my first kid at 31.

    What's a girl to do? I can't give up milk. What will I put in my SpecialK???

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  • suzieq60
    suzieq60 Member Posts: 6,059
    edited February 2011

    I took the pill for a very long time and then HRT for about 4 years. I do blame my getting bc on it especially as both cancers were very highly ER receptive (95%) which is an indicator that these pills caused it. The birth control pill is 5 times the strength of HRT.

    Sue

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  • Fearless_One
    Fearless_One Member Posts: 3,300
    edited February 2011

    Sue, I agree.   But what puzzles me is why the lack of studies??    Is it because BCP's are multi-billion dollar industry?   I hate to sound jaded, but I find the lack of studies on such an obvious risk factor puzzling.  

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  • MJLToday
    MJLToday Member Posts: 2,068
    edited February 2011

    The big reason that historically Chinese (not Chinese-American) women have lower rates of BC, is they have children early in life.  As that changes, their BC rates will rise.

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  • MJLToday
    MJLToday Member Posts: 2,068
    edited February 2011

    High rates of stomach cancer are linked to H. pylori infestation (the bug that causes ulcers) and to consumption of smoked / cured meats.   That is one reason why Chinese men & women have historically high rates of stomach cancer.

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  • Fearless_One
    Fearless_One Member Posts: 3,300
    edited February 2011

    I don't buy the childless-women theory, either.   Lots of moms out there with BC, including moms who had their children before age 30.

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  • MJLToday
    MJLToday Member Posts: 2,068
    edited February 2011

    The early-childbearing risk factor is not 100%.  Most epidemiological links are not.  It is a well-proven risk factor, though.  And it's not "before 30" -- it's more like late teenage completed pregnancy, along with full-term breastfeeding, that help prevent BC.  Our bodies are just designed biologically to be used differently than how we do, in modern Western society.

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  • pip57
    pip57 Member Posts: 12,401
    edited February 2011

    I thought that China only allows one child per couple.  

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  • susan_02143
    susan_02143 Member Posts: 7,209
    edited February 2011

    pretty, this is true in recent history, but sadly in a culture that so strongly prefers boy babies, that doesn't mean just one pregnancy. *susan*

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  • kittycat
    kittycat Member Posts: 2,144
    edited February 2011

    I was on BCP's for 20+ years and never had children.  Well, I got pregnant twice in my early 30's, but lost both pregnancies in the first trimester.  Since I'm triple negative, my bc is probably not attributed to the BCP's, but you never know!  I am BRCA1+, so that's probably why I got bc twice.  I have a pretty stressful job, which I am blaming on my 2nd diagnosis. Trying to be less stressed these days...

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  • AnnNYC
    AnnNYC Member Posts: 4,484
    edited February 2011

    I'm just scratching my head over Jane Plant's numbers.  She wrote:

    Only one in 10,000 women in China will die from it, compared to that terrible figure of one in 12 in Britain and the even grimmer average of one in 10 across most Western countries.

    In 1996, according to the World Health Organization, 3.5 women per 100,000 died of breast cancer per year in China, compared to 32.7 women per 100,000 per year in the U.S.  That difference is a factor of 10 -- not a factor of 1,000 as implied by Jane Plant's sentence above.  In 2004, the number of breast cancer deaths  in China had risen to 10 per 100,000 women per year -- compared to 30 deaths per 100,000 women per year in the U.S. -- a factor of 3.

    So it seems like Jane Plant's "1 in 10,000" is correct for China in 2004 -- but the "1 in 10" in Western countries is more like a lifetime incidence rate.  So it's mistaken and/or misleading (or even deceitful) of her to compare these numbers as if they're the same thing.  One in 10 (or 1 in 7) women in Western countries may be diagnosed with BC in their lifetimes (and more surveillance in Western countries may lead to higher diagnosis rates) -- but about 10 of 100,000 (1 in 10,000) women in China and 30 of 100,000 (3 in 1,000) women in the U.S. die of BC in a single year.

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  • SuperMom101
    SuperMom101 Member Posts: 90
    edited February 2011

    An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. - Ben Franklin 

    Ten years ago at the age of 38 I was diagnosed and treated for breast cancer and my team of doctors suggested I get a second if not a third opinion to the course of my treatment.  At the same time, I discovered Jane Plant's book, Your Life in Your Hands, Understanding, Preventing and Overcoming Breast Cancer and since that time I have been on a dairy free diet with only limited amounts of organic meat.  

    For me it was an easy decision to change my diet and lifestyle even though giving up cheese was not easy!  My oncologist of ten years says, "keep on doing whatever you're doing because it's working."

    I've been encouraged by friends and family and have started a web page and host a local cable TV show that features dairy free recipes that are nutritious and delicious and even kids will enjoy.  So, for me, I 'm thankful for her book and grateful to the team of doctor's that have sent me on my journey.  

    The cure for breast cancer is prevention.

     Best health always,

    SuperMom101

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  • Fearless_One
    Fearless_One Member Posts: 3,300
    edited February 2011

    Many vegetarians get BC (and vegans), so I do not believe that amounts of meat and dairy we eat are a factor at all.   

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  • Fitztwins
    Fitztwins Member Posts: 7,969
    edited February 2011

    Supermom101,

    I must say how insenstive you are to post :

    The cure for breast cancer is prevention.,

    It isn't that simple. This is an ignorant statement. Shame for posting this here on a stageIV forum.

    Sorry, but I hate people who think a diet can cure/prevent breast cancer. It can't. Sure it might help, it might not.

    If you have BREASTS you can get cancer, nothing you did or didn't do can truly prevent it.

    JMHO

    Janis

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  • Alpal
    Alpal Member Posts: 1,785
    edited February 2011

    I agree with every thing Fitz said. Thank you!

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  • mumito
    mumito Member Posts: 4,562
    edited February 2011

    I lived in HongKong for a few years and adopted the chinese cooking and eating style.You are right very little dairy.No cheese at all. But lots of soybean products like Tofu.They also believe in quick cooking all their vegetables even lettuce is blanched quickly.The diet in general has lots of fish and vegetables.But they do like thier preserved meats for flavouring the rice.Sweets and pastries are usually  saved for special occasions.

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  • mumito
    mumito Member Posts: 4,562
    edited February 2011

    I did not realize this is a stage !V thread. sorry

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  • Alpal
    Alpal Member Posts: 1,785
    edited February 2011

    Mumayan - your post was completely appropriate for this discussion. Thank you for the first hand information about diet in HongKong. No need to apologize.

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  • barbe1958
    barbe1958 Member Posts: 19,757
    edited February 2011

    Mum, that's not the point. Your post was valid. It's when someone who says something ignorant like prevention is the cure. Then everyone should have a double mast!!! Men included.....

    I tried to ignore it, but Janis said it so well.

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited February 2011

    Supermom101... Well... Your post was super-not-wise and super-ignorant.

    As to the matter of this discussion: check the stomach cancer incidence in China. I bet you'll be surprised.  http://globocan.iarc.fr/factsheets/cancers/stomach.asp

    My wife had her last birth control pill 10 years ago. She had 2 kids before reaching 30 and breastfed them both. Yet she was diagnosed with Stage III at 31 and with mets at 33.

    Prevention-schmevention. It may lower your chances to get the disease but it's not the cure. Whatever some Superstupidmoms say.

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  • 3katz
    3katz Member Posts: 1,264
    edited February 2011

    You said it Fitz and Yan! While I'm sure my lifestyle has attributed to my cancer, it has not in many, MANY others. There is no prevention for breast cancer - probably not for ANY cancers. Non-smokers can still get lung cancer, even if not exposed to 2nd hand smoke. Cancer can happen to anyone, anywhere and does not discriminate.

    Supermom - I'm glad you haven't had a recurrence and are doing so well. I'm glad what you are doing is working for you. Unfortunately many others aren't so lucky and it's not due to a lack of "prevention." Quite the ridiculous blanket statement.

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  • dreamwriter
    dreamwriter Member Posts: 3,255
    edited February 2011

    Im lactose intolerant so lack of dairy products is not a factor for me.

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  • bevin
    bevin Member Posts: 1,902
    edited February 2011

    Hi everyone - there is a very good book - The China Experiment - completed by US doctors, that studies just this phenomena. Pretty in Pink- since its US doctors who did the studies indicated in this book, I trust it. basically - they found the type of diet in asian culture and strongly make a case that our western diet impacts many of the diseases we see here and have such a high rate of compared to other cultures specifically cancers and heart disease. worth a read. Its a bit techy - but once you get passed the beginning its very interesting.

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