Why don't Chinese women get breast cancer?

Fearless_One

I didn't realize I was posting on stage IV forum, my apologies....was an interesting thread....

Alpal

I'm cracking up! Feel free to post here - we're not ogres! Just please don't tell us that you've found the cure and it's too late for us. Truly amazing when scientists and researchers can't find the cure.

3monstmama

By now I would think we have all noticed that whatever one of us has done, someone else has done the complete opposite and yet, here we all are together.  Why that doesn't put a nail in the coffin of "breast cancer can be prevented" escapes me.

The real thing that needs to be focused on is what is the trigger that makes a cell decide to stop copying itself in the normal fashion and go rogue [for lack of a better term].  Whether it is a cell in a breast, a brain, a testicle, a colon, a tongue or a lung or a bone, that is the real question.  Because clearly people of all types all over the world get all types of cancer.  What can be done to turn a rogue cell off, thats what needs to be the focus and sorry but the answer is NOT going to be found in one way of eatting/drinking etc. 

I only hope it is figured out in time for my daughter---who started her period last month at not quite 11--to not have to worry about getting breast cancer.

hugs to all and happy Friday. 

SuperMom101

When I saw the heading "Why Don't Chinese Women Get Breast Cancer" I didn't realize this was a Stage IV forum and since I've read Jane Plant's books I thought I'd post.

Although, I am confused at the positive and engaging statements such as, "prevention-schmevention. It may lower your chances to get the disease but it's not the cure. Whatever some Superstupidmoms say."   

My oncologist thinks there is something to be said about the rural Chinese diet compared to our "Western diets" and has recommended a no dairy diet to a Stage IV patient that I am aware of first hand and can thankfully say she is well over a year later.  So, I didn't think it was too far fetched to respond to this post since I've read her books and follow a no dairy diet.  (She believes the same rings true for men but it's the prostate that is effected.)

Anyway, never my intent to be insensitive.   

To Bevin:  I've also read The China Study and also found it very interesting.

Still wishing everyone best health always,

Anonymous

The intent was good, but the result - as usual (c).

So I'll post the same stat link again...

http://globocan.iarc.fr/factsheets/cancers/stomach.asp 

bevin

I am sorry ladies, I am new to the BCO and didnt realize the protocol at first about not posting on another forum if it's not your stage.  I was simply responding to the title of the post and didnt realize the forum it was in.  Again, my apologies, I wasn't inferring The China Experiment was the answer, only that the book was an interesting read and addresses the question the poster inquired on.  Sorry again.

SuperMom101

Thanks Leprechaun.  Certainly don't think I'm God.. I'll leave that for someone else. 

Yes, I'm very aware of the high stomach cancer rates in China, but I'm not certain this is the correct discussion group for me to participate in since I ended up here by accident and haven't had the warmest welcome.    So, please follow up privately or maybe there's a discussion group on the topic elsewhere that's more appropriate for me to post in?

Best health always,

Alpal

Once again - we are not ogres!!! We're normal nice people! Bevin - you did nothing wrong. I'm glad to know about that book. Don't believe people who tell you that you can't post of this forum. There is nothing sacred about a thread titled "Why Chinese Women Don't Get Breast Cancer". Some of our threads are intended only for those with Stage IV and most people with common sense can tell the difference.

Fitztwins

Hey, I am not an orgre. Just ultra sensitive that to any comment that I brought this dx on myself or that I could have prevented it.

Anonymous

Yeah, me too not Shrek.

kittycat

The thing about breast cancer is that it has so many subcategories and what may work for one, may not work for another.  My sister was diagnosed with bc and I've been dx twice.  Both of us have the exact same BRCA1 gene mutation, but she is ER+ and I am triple negative.  Obviously, we are genetically predisposed to have bc, but what starts it and how can we keep it from spreading???  I just hope they find a cure before my niece grows up.   She already started growing breasts and she's 9!  Ugh!!!  Who knows if a special diet can work and would it work for certain people and certain types of cancer???  They need to find a friggin cure!!!  I know too many people that have been dx with cancer.  It sucks!

Alpal

Haha! You all know I didn't mean you were ogres. I just hate to see people with something to offer hesitate to post it on a thread like this because they're scared of us. As I've already said, I also hate to hear someone has the "cure" but it's too late for us. If only we'd known!

Heidihill

There are French studies that say you should be eating more cheese and drinking more red wine. An ounce of prevention isn't worth squat if it's plain mistaken.

katie11

I've also read 'The China Study' - it was lent to me by a well meaning colleague from work and it is indeed a very interesting and compelling read. However, it is also only one of literally hundreds of books, theories and hypothesis about the recent alarming rise in the number of people being diagnosed with breast cancer each year in western countries. They announced on the news in the UK yesterday that the number of women who will be diagnosed in the UK with this disease has now risen to one in eight! Wow! They also put this rise down to many changes in our lifestyles such as diet, obesity, drinking, smoking, lack of exercise, blah, blah, blah...



Whilst I am sure that all of the above no doubt heighten the risk of contracting the disease, they do not cause it and avoiding the above does not prevent it either. We have daily proof of this right here on the boards. Healthy lifestyle choices may lower our risks but they do not eliminate them and are certainly not some kind of miracle cure as suggested in Jane Plant's book. To suggest so is offensive, patronizing and a HUGE oversimplification of what is a very complex issue. It also very conveniently places the blame at the individual's door and fails to address much wider social and political issues. For example, anyone who has read Rachel Carlson's 'Silent Spring' will know the kind of thing I am referring to.



I am so happy for you if the non dairy route has worked for you or that drinking green tea has cured your cancer or indeed if not eating red meat has saved your life. However, for every one who feels they have cured in this way, there are literally hundreds more who haven't. If only it was that easy!

SuperMom101

When I logged on this morning the founder of Breastcancer.org (as you may know was diagnosed last year with breast cancer herself) has a post on her Think Pink" Live Green blog titled "Buying Organic Fruits and Vegtables on a Budget". 

As I said before, I'd be happy to discuss the studies, additional resources, etc. about diet and breast cancer; however, I don't feel this is the correct discussion group for me to do so.

Best health always,

p.s. The reason for the quote that seems to offended some of you: "The Cure for Breast Cancer is Prevention" is because National Cancer Institute research shows that as much as 50% of cancer risk may be related to diet. (http://www.cancerproject.org/) My personal goal is to fund research dollars ALSO for prevention AND the cure!  My mother was diagnosed 4 times and my sister with DCIS Stage 0 last year.  They do not have the gene.

katie11

Supermom101,



I rarely get involved in controversy on the boards; it is a place I like to come to for comfort and support and one of the few places where people really understand me as they struggle through daily life with a Stage IV diagnosis.



However, I don't think you've quite understood why your comments are considered insensitive and patronizing by many here. Both of your references to prevention as a cure and, indeed, Dr Weiss' column about diet are inappropriate on a Stage IV forum as theyseem to suggest that there is something we could have done to prevent the situation we are in. Equally, you also make reference

to facts and statistics you have at hand that you could use to prove your case though you choose not to. This is also patronizing to say the least. However, I am an intelligent, well educated, well read individual who is perfectly capable of making up my own mind.



Noone here is disputing the fact that diet plays an important role in this and, indeed, many other diseases that are growing at such an alarming rate in western society. However, whilst adopting a healthier diet may lower your risks of a breast cancer diagnosis, it is not going to prevent you being diagnosed and is certainly not going to cure you. As I said above, there are much wider and complex issues involved which reach far beyond the individual and what that individual chooses to eat.



Apart from this, it is simply not wise or compassionate to come to a Stage IV discussion boards to effectively announce that you are doing very nicely, thank you very much, because of a book you read about a non dairy diet curing cancer whilst us poor souls are dying because we're obviously too stupid to realize what seems obvious to you.

Fearless_One

Perhaps all she meant was that as we sit here TODAY, there is no cure.   So all anyone can do is take whatever steps are available (even if just in theory) to take preventative measures as best we can (screening, diet, genetic testing, etc). 

I seriously doubt she meant to upset anyone!   That is not anyone's intention here - on ANY forum.   I don't meant to put words in anyone's mouth, but I seriously doubt she was implying that getting BC is our fault.

Anonymous

Fearless_One,

I think, the quote "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions" is perfectly fitting this case.

Grazie47

I think Chinese Women do not get Breast Cancer is because China is a communist country.

The powers to be will decide what research is done, what is reported and what is not.

What is the research?  Is early detection available to everyone, or just the elite?  Do the poor have any access to health care, or any education about health care?  Do the non elite even know about breast cancer?

MJLToday

I keep missing Super Mom's posts.  What is she saying?  LOL 

susan_02143

MJL,

She seems to think we could all be cured if we ate differently. Something about dairy I think. Another woman who believes that she controls her future and isn't constrained by the crapshoot of life.

I wish....   *susan* 

barbe1958

It's the "knowing" that she won't get a recurrence because she doesn't eat dairy that's the kicker. She thinks that's the cure - prevention!

kathleen1966

I find it interesting that there is one thing that Asians do that most American's don't do.  And this is nurse their children until they are three years old. I wonder if there have been any studies on the long term effects of breastfeeding in regards to Breast Cancer.  I don't know if Europeans nurse their children longer.  I was not breast fed.  I think there are likely other factors but I find this interesting.  I nursed both of my children until they were almost three.  This is generally not accepted in America but the norm in Asia.

kathleen1966

I also knew a woman years ago that cut out all dairy after she was diagnosed with Breast Cancer.  She ate no dairy for years.  She eventually ended up with a recurrence of her breast cancer.  Maybe not eating dairy gave her more time but it didn't cure her.

barbe1958

...and breast feeding kids until 3 isn't a prevention either. It used to be the norm years ago and women still got breast cancer. It's still a crap shoot no matter what way you look at it and trying to find the "cause" is futile at our level of research. If it was that easy, there would have been a cure or prevention years and years ago.

susan_02143

I breast fed my kid until she was about 26 months.... and I have to say in African countries, breast feeding last a long time, and yet, there is an epidemic there too even in the most remote areas.

Cynthia1962

I was breastfeeding my second child when I was diagnosed, so I looked into the stats on it and breast cancer.  Here is some info I found by a well-known athropologist: http://www.kathydettwyler.org/detcancer.html  There seem to be a lot of variables, so it's a difficult to be specific, but the benefit is greater the younger you are when you breastfeed and the longer you breastfeed.  If you were breastfed yourself, it also lowers your risk.  If I understand the info., you can half your risk by breastfeeding and having been breastfed.  Still, that won't be enough for many of us.

Another thing I learned which I should have known, but didn't, is that doing things to lower one's risk isn't cummulative .  So, for instance, I breastfed two children for a total of 58 months, rarely drank liquor, didn't smoke, was a vegetarian, avoided known carcinogens, ate organic often, wasn't overweight, took supplements, etc., but these habits didn't combne to lower my risk to nothing.  

Cynthia

Honeybear

I took birth control for two years.  I grew up eating a lot of beef and consuming a lot of dairy.  I did spend about 8 years as a vegan and was ultra-healthy.  I got a ton of great exercise and was in great shape and got BC at 27.  From what I know, a lot of different things can contribute, so who knows.  I hope they figure it out so next generations don't have to go through this crap!

Jennifer

nowheregirl

           

I don't know where the idea of Asian women nursing their children longer than other countries came from but at least in Japan, nursing your kids until they are three is NOT normal. It depends but our official guidelines say that weaning should start at 5 months and be completed by 18 months.

If breastfeeding was a prevention, the incidence of breast cancer in my country should have decreased after the WWII because during the war time, people didn't have enough food and even if they did, women were the last to eat. Plus women had the average of 4-5 children of their own as oppsoed to 1-2 these days. They didn't have enough breast milk in the first place due to the lack of nutrition and since they had more children of similar ages than they do now, the amount of breast milk that one child was given was much less than it is now. But the incidence of breast cancer in Japan has significantly increased. It's about 5-6 times as high as it was around the war time.

Letlet

In the Philippines a lot of women don't breastfeed their children, in fact there are a lot of programs out there that push for breastfeeding because a lot of women don't. I breastfed my son and still got BC.