I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

pip57 · January 2011

All American citizens have certain rights. A sheriff can't just go scoop somebody off the streets for voicing his "crazy" ideas.

Medigal · January 2011

Alpal: Right, Left or Middle, I think ALL Public Figures need to be more civil. I also think some of the other posters have been making that same remark except in different words.

Shirley: Do we have to use "your" exact words? No matter how it is expressed, I have read a lot of posts stating the "loonies are loonies". Crazies, loonies, insane, it all amounts to the same thing. Find them and get them off the streets!

Anonymous · January 2011

World watcher - was his ear blinking?

I tell my kids that years ago when you saw someone walking down the street holding a heated conversation by himself, you were pretty sure that the person was not quite right in the head, now it happens much more frequently and they are probably just talking to someone on a cell phone using bluetooth. Laughing

kadeeb · January 2011

Patmom - LOL it happens in the grocery store. Someone will say something and I don't know if they're talking to me or not. I just smile and say sorry if they weren't talking to me.

Anonymous · January 2011

Should she be investigated?

Frances Fox Piven (Obama's idol) Rings in The New Year By Calling for Violent Revolution

December 31, 2010

She's considered by many as the grandmother of using the American welfare state to implement revolution. Make people dependent on the government, overload the government rolls, and once government services become unsustainable, the people will rise up, overthrow the oppressive capitalist system, and finally create income equality. Collapse the system and create a new one. That‘s the simplified version of Frances Fox Piven's philosophy originally put forth in the pages of The Nation in the 60s.

Now, as the new year ball drops, Piven is at it again, ringing in 2011 with renewed calls for revolution.

In a chilling and almost unbelievable editorial again in The Nation ("Mobilizing the Jobless," January 10/17, 2011 edition), she calls on the jobless to rise up in a violent show of solidarity and force. As before, those calls are dripping with language of class struggle. Language she and her late husband Richard Cloward made popular in the 60s.

"So where are the angry crowds, the demonstrations, sit-ins and unruly mobs?" she writes. "After all, the injustice is apparent. Working people are losing their homes and their pensions while robber-baron CEOs report renewed profits and windfall bonuses. Shouldn't the unemployed be on the march? Why aren't they demanding enhanced safety net protections and big initiatives to generate jobs?"

Those are the questions that frame what can best be called a roadmap for revolution. And it's not long before those questions give way to directions. The first instruction: get angry.

And along with anger must come a denunciation of personal responsibility. Instead, workers must realize that others have put them in their current, uneasy situation: "[T]he out-of-work have to stop blaming themselves for their hard times and turn their anger on the bosses, the bureaucrats or the politicians who are in fact responsible."

Only then, once their rage has been properly stoked, can the angry take action. And when they do, she says, the "protesters need targets."

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/frances-fox-piven-rings-in-the-new-year-by-calling-for-violent-revolution/

otter · January 2011

"All American citizens have certain rights. A sheriff can't just go scoop somebody off the streets for voicing his "crazy" ideas."

This certainly isn't my area of expertise, but, ... unless somebody has committed a crime, or, more broadly, is suspected of having committed a crime, the police cannot pick him/her up and toss him/her in the slammer, can they? If someone was acting crazy in public, wouldn't they have to be posing a threat to someone else, or to themselves, to get picked up? And, to lock them up for their craziness, wouldn't there have to be a court hearing with some sort of psychiatric evaluation?

I don't think it's enough to just say crazy things. (I am agreeing with PIP.) I think the person has to act on them, to trigger action by law enforcement officials. Isn't that the case, in the U.S. at least?

otter (waiting for the freezing rain to begin -- how is it where you are, kadeeb?)

floralgal · January 2011

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Medigal · January 2011

Laura: What do you mean that she is "Obama's Idol"? How can any President have as an idol someone that is acting as a traitor to her own country? If he condones her actions, "he" should be investigated! I don't see how she can get away with actually trying to incite a riot in her own country? That has to be a form of treason and she should be stopped! "I" may be in fear of something like this happening because it has happened in so many other countries when people become desperate but it is NOT something any one should condone or incite others to become a part of. What we need to do is try to get Washington to help people be able to get jobs and not have to go on welfare or unemployment. This woman is NOT a friend of our country or our people. I think she is on the side of our enemies and wants this to happen to our country! In her own way, she is as dangerous (and even more so, imo) than the nutcases who go around shooting innocent people. She has to be stopped! I would love to know what Obama is doing about her treasonous rantings. Freedom of speech is one thing but trying to incite your citizens into killing each other should be a crime! If any one else knows any more about what her relationship is with Obama, would you please advise. Thanks!

kadeeb · January 2011

Otter - waiting with ya! They say we're due for 4-8 inches here in the northern region. I'm hoping for no sleet or freezing rain. Power lines come down around here when that happens. I love the snow and work has already been canceled so I'm staying up till it does something. I'll keep ya posted.

Medigal · January 2011

Sorry, I could not wait for a response on this "dangerous" woman. I did my own research. She is a Socialist who wants to crash the US economy and bring on a socialistic revolution by overloading the welfare rolls! This is what Beck has been warning everyone about and telling people to hoard food! Maybe I owe him an apology. If only he could just learn to present these issues so people could take him seriously! No wonder our dollar is losing it's value. Obama is either not wise enough to see what is going on or he is condoning her plans by not stopping the destruction. One would have to be braindead not to see the catastrophes all around us and nothing being done to stop it.

Laura: Thanks for bringing that to our attention about that truly evil (in my opinion) woman! It is so sad how many really want the downfall of America and our reps seem asleep at the wheel. What to do? What to do?

kadeeb · January 2011

Floralgal, I was not a big fan of McCain as president but he's a darn class act. He may be old but so am I. His comment is the attitude I would like to see out of more people in the public forum.

Anonymous · January 2011

"All American citizens have certain rights. A sheriff can't just go scoop somebody off the streets for voicing his "crazy" ideas."

You're right, but this shooter had been in court at least twice in the last couple of years, once on drug charges, and was able to complete programs and get his public record cleared, although the police still have access to information about the previous arrests. The local police were also aware of the incident at the college that resulted in an immediate suspension three months ago since they were the ones who delivered the notice of the suspension to him.

The local police should have been aware that the congresswoman (who apparently has had threats made against her in the past) was going to be holding a public gathering.

If someone who doesn't quite fit the demographic of the crowd and who is known to have cause public disturbances in the past shows up, leaves and returns, it is not unreasonable for a police officer to attempt to engage that person in conversation. That is all it would take to either diffuse the situation as the shooter realizes that he is being watched, or alert the officer to the presence of imminent danger depending on the person's reaction.

iodine · January 2011

Aside from all the contention, another thought occurs to me:

Along with all the threats made to people in gov't, this tragedy will increase security around most political gathering, and should, I supppose, change the way our reps interact with US.

But what about our future gov't reps? I have often wondered why anyone would choose public service or want a presidency or senate position, considering all the hassels--ok, power is one good reason, But, what about now that this has occurred?

Will this type of thing (terrible to say that it's a TYPE OF THING, so it has become so numerous) deter our gov't people from seeking leadership positions? Will we be loosing those of the "best and brightest" to pvt. industry because, Why in the world would one want to expose onesself, let alone our families, to not only constant scrutiny from the press but to the very loss of life by being in the forefront?

kellyj · January 2011

Actually, I would welcome our best and brightest into private industry!! Beesie your post was spot on.

Anonymous · January 2011

Medigal - she is one scary lady. I don't understand your shock. It's easy to not be surprised about her affiliation with Obama. Obama is known for praising Wright, Van Jones, Soros and NUMEROUS other scary/questionable people.

And don't forget Rep. Luis Guiteiraz (D-IL) is urging the illegal aliens to riot in the streets in defense of the DREAM Act. Some of these liberals are simply out of control and it's getting worse by the day.

Frances Fox Piven is a prominent U.S. sociologist (originally born in Canada), writer and socialist activist and is an honorary chair of the Democratic Socialists of America.

Fox Piven was a DSAer since the organization's founding in 1982. By 1985 she was listed as a member of the Feminist Commission of the organization.

In 1994 she was listed amongst over 100 activists who were builders of Barack Obama's New Party. Piven is also listed as an endorser of Progressives for Obama. Most noteworthy however, is her ominous comment that the President "has made appointments; usually below the radar screen to the Federal bureaucracy". Piven takes heart at what she refers to as the Obama Administration's restaffing of Federal bureaucracy. Perhaps Piven is referring to Socialist heroes elected to the Federal bureaucracy such as former STORM leader Van Jones, Netroots Nation-linked Cass Sunstein, and former Congressional Progressive Caucus member, Hilda Solis.

http://newzeal.blogspot.com/2010/10/frances-fox-piven-obama-has-done-good.html

worldwatcher · January 2011

WOO HOO! Brave woman enables men to tackle shooter!

Three men and a woman were instrumental in disarming and tackling the man suspected of killing six and injuring 14 in Tucson during a political event for Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, according to Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dubnik.

Dubnik identified the heroes as Patricia Maisch, Roger Salzgeber, Bill Badger and Joseph Zamudio.

According to Dubnik, Maisch was in the rear of a line of people waiting to take a photograph with Giffords, when the suspect began firing his semiautomatic weapon.

When the shooter tried load a fresh magazine into his Glock 9 mm gun, Maisch grabbed the bottom of it, preventing the magazine from being inserted, Dubnik said.

This pause in shooting allowed Salzgeber and Badger to tackle the suspect to the ground and hold him until deputies arrived, Dubnik said.

A fourth participant, Zamudio, restrained the suspect's legs, Dubnik said.

Initial information saying Maisch was injured was inaccurate, said Dubnik. She did not report having any injuries.

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/01/09/20110109gabrielle-giffords-arizona-shooting-citizen-heroes.html#ixzz1AaPBPCCO

pip57 · January 2011

Pat, I would think that there are a lot of people who have a similar background. Still doesn't raise any red flags.

Anonymous · January 2011

WOO HOO! Brave woman enables men to tackle shooter!

Never underestimate the power of women!

lassie11 · January 2011

What is the point of bringing up out of context remarks from France Fox Piven? Is that she is not properly representing the name Fox? or is the whole thing a red herring to avoid answering difficult questions about the context of yesterday's shoothing?

To describe her as a traitor for making remarks with which you might disagree (and which I suspect no one here has read thoroughly) is stooping to the kind of argument that yesterday's events suggest seriously that we avoid. Further, she has nothing whatsover to do with discussions of health care or yesterday's events. To keep the rhetoric civil, I suggest that particular discussion here ought to end.

Medigal · January 2011

Laura: Not so much shock but utter disgust! DP said this past week Beck mentioned her on his show as somebody we would be hearing more about. I guess I just don't want to believe we actually have a President who is cooperating with such radicals! I want so badly to believe all the things I read and hear about Obama can't be true but each day it gets worse. I guess I may have to let DP go ahead and watch Beck so we can know who our enemies are. I do hope Obama doesn't make it for a second term and the radicals can't bring on their havoc while he's still in office. No way I'll give him 4 more years to do this destruction if what I am reading is correct! NOW I do hope the Repubs can bring him down politically!

BTW, everyone with any sense knows women are more powerful than men! Why do you think Adam was given a female mate? Smile Men may have the brawn but they need "women" to tell them how to use it!

Alpal · January 2011

http://www.alternet.org/news/146164/how_a_77-year-old_visionary_author_became_the_target_of_a_far-ranging_right-wing_conspiracy_theory/?page=entire Said I wasn't going to post here anymore, but in the interest of fairness, I think all of you should look at this. Not a souce I would usually cite, but since Laura's info came from a right wing blog named New Zeal, I feel this source is ok. Not sure the link will work, but I'm going to give it a try.

Edited to add that the link worked for me. Interesting reading - please take the time to look it over.

Anonymous · January 2011

lassie - Have you been hired as a member of the post police? Self-appointed to decide if a post is relevant or not to the topic at hand?

You obviously "missed" the direction/connection of my posts. I simply will not try to explain it to you.

Anonymous · January 2011

Friendly reminder: For those of you here who watch Sarah's show...it's on an hour early tonight. It's starting right now (7 CT). Enjoy!

Maya2 · January 2011

This tragedy has been so sad for us ex-pats. (It's been in all our European news.) I've lived in several countries, but only been citizens of two. I'm so sad to see my first home in pain and turmoil once again.

Whether you are left, right, or middle, I wish you peace from a far.

lassie11 · January 2011

Thanks Alpal for that link - the article made all kinds of sense in explaining why Laura posted as she did. Clearly it is a Glenn Beck/Fox news strategy to deflect any sensible arguments.

Laura- Glenn Beck should be proud of you for so faithfully repeating his nonsense.

Nope - I am not the post police, just darned tired of red herrings, slippery slope logic and just plain illogic.

kadeeb · January 2011

Now Medigal,

I thought everyone knew that it is normal and customary to do a proto type (men) before production of the refined product(women) goes on line. We copied that from God. Another interesting antidote on the Adam Eve subject. Eve had to be tricked and beguiled to taste the apple. she only had to offer it to Adam(just a joke).

Medigal · January 2011

Thanks Alpal. I am always willing to get another view on the subject. Time will tell who's view is correct. I still want nothing to do with Obama for a second term. Too much too soon!

floralgal · January 2011

Delete

floralgal · January 2011

Delete

Medigal · January 2011

floralgal: I guess I am not an idiot since I check up on what anyone tells me. I like to be an Independent thinker and not just go with the "flow". I saved what Alpal sent and will do more work on it tomorrow so I can decide what I want to believe on this issue.

I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

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