I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

lewing

Revkat, it's incredibly hateful and arrogant, but why would that surprise anyone here?

So I guess I shouldn't be surprised (though I *am* appalled) at attacks on a 77-year-old retired sociology professor who has spent a lifetime thinking and writing about how to make this a better, fairer country (and whose books are probably on the shelf of anyone who's ever taken a college class in sociology, social work or the history of social welfare policy in the U.S.).  All the puppet master Glenn Beck has to do is give the word, and his steaming, stinking CRAP is slung across the internet . . . including, unfortunately, here at bco. 

Here is an article that gives a reasoned account of France Fox Piven's views, her career, and the despicable character assassination (and I use that word very, very consciously) undertaken by Glenn Beck and Andrew Breitbart. 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-dreier/the-rights-attack-on-fran_b_510410.html

(I expect this post will be deleted by the vigilantes.  Thanks, ladies.  You are true believers in the constitution, aren't you?)

L

(edited to correct a stupid typo.)

BarbaraA

Lewing, it will take a whole lot more than an article in the HuffPo or on Glenn Becks' website to convince me that Piven is a poor innocent. I have much more research to do but HuffPo won't be part of it.

rosemary-b

2tzus

When a federal official is killed or attacked, the FBI runs the investigation. And I do believe that it is the job of law enforcement officials to find out and even comment on the motive of a suspect.

With that said, I am out of here for today Even though I expressed my opinion when the shock was fresh and my feelings raw, I think the most important thing I can do as someone who is not involved in politics or the news media on a day to day basis is to pray for everyone touched by this tragedy..

Bren-2007

Morning Rosemary .. hope you have a good day today.

Praying is good .. but your thoughts on this thread are welcomed as well. 

My first reaction when I heard the Sheriff on Saturday was "Oh no" he's talking about the vitriol in politics today.  After giving it some thought, it seems he's responding to the emotion of the shooting and thinking of all the threats he's read against different people, including the Judge and Giffords.

They were personal friends of his, and I'm sure the deaths of a little girl and elderly women were weighing heavily on him.

Bren

Alpal

BarbaraA - I don't know what you're talking about having to give personal info to read the article I posted. I certainly didn't have to give any info. Sorry about that.

Bren-2007

Alpal .. I just read the article you posted.  You don't have to give personal info, just click the link at the bottom that says continue to site.  And the article shows up w/o giving out any personal info.

Bren

Alpal

Thanks Bren, that's what happened to me, too. Not sure why BarbaraA couldn't get to it.

Bren-2007

No problemo ... The article was well worth reading. 

hugs,

Bren

bluedahlia

I'm gonna give you guys a little lesson in brain chemistry.  Too little dopamine and you have PD....too much dopamine and you're a schitzo.  So for all you right wingers, pay attention.  Your diatribe regarding the sherrif laying the groundwork for the assassin going off on an insanity plea is non-sequiter.  If he's a sick man, he's a sick man.  And if he's a sick man, anything can trigger this kind of reaction.  The killing talk desensitizes the healthy among us.........think what it can do to someone with a brain chemistry imbalance.  Politics needs to clean up its act, and that should start now!

I don't know what Barbara's brother has been diagnosed with but I do know that I have been mistaken for a drunk, retarded, etc. and my illness is not a danger to society.

Sorry, I couldn't wait until Thursday.  Some of the posts I have read have me chomping at the bit.  Gonna post now before I lose it so please forgive any spelling errors.

BarbaraA

Bren, a window pops up that I cannot close. Let me try again. Blue my brother is a paranoid schizophrenic.

BarbaraA

Alpal, interesting. I tried it 10 times and got the popup window maybe 3 times. Whatever, I did reasd the article and it was interesting.

bluedahlia

Barbara, sorry to hear that.  I hope he is receiving good treatment.

Maya2

Most European newspapers and a Sidney newspaper are including Palin's Web site and her targeted districts as well as Rep. Giffords remarks about that graphic. Palin is looking quite bad outside the US. Not necessarily that she caused it, but that she is someone who uses very poor judgment. People ask me why we're so gun crazy and as usual I can't answer because I don't understand myself.

Anonymous

The shooter was apparently planning to attack the congresswoman since 2007, long before Palin was on the national scene, and certainly before those ads appeared.  To publish them and blame her for instigating the attacks is libel, but if everyone does it, they'll all get away with it.  Who cares about truth?

Enjoyful

Surveyors' symbols?  REALLY!?!??  Because every American knows what symbols surveyors use?  And Palin's tweet telling people to "reload" and then referring them to her map is telling them to....what.....reload their surveyor thingies?

HAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

pip57

I still don't understand why Pivens is causing so much chatter.  Beck could shine his spotlight on thousands of articles and theories out there.  They have always been there.  It doesn't make them reality.  Have you ever talked to a sociology or psychology prof?

Ed for sp 

Bren-2007

Well .. looking at the survey of my own property, I don't see any of those gunsights/surveyor thingys.  The surveyor markings are completely different than what is on Palins ad.

It doesn't really matter that the shooter was targeting Giffords for a long time .. for whatever reason, Palin's ad has really struck a chord at this time.  Right or wrong .. it just is the way it is right now.

Palin still hasn't put her FB page back up.

Enjoyful

Palin's political career is over.  She might as well fold up her tent and go shoot some salmon.

Anonymous

By the way, if those maps and symbols are so offensive, and so likely to incite someone to violence, why publish them again and share them with a wider audience?

BarbaraA

Blue, thanks. As long as he takes his meds, it is OK but when he doesn't.....

Alpal

Tupelo - thanks for posting that again. Those circles are polka dots, I'm sure of it.

ONE MORE TIME -

Incivility is not limited to any one party or interest group. Did anyone see the photo of Peyton Manning with the crosshairs over his face? For a ballgame???? Everyone needs to clean up their act. That goes for private citizens, also. That means us.

Anonymous

tupelo - It's the same mentality over and over...do as say, not as I do. 

imo...This is all about freedom of speech. You can't draw a line - it's either a Right or it isn't. And it's part of the Constitution. Thank goodness no one will ever be able to take it away.

It was a Democrat (Lopez) was the very first person/politician to create the vitriol about Gifford's shooter. Not only did she blame Palin, but she wrongfully assumed the shooter was an ex military guy who "probably" served in Afghanistan. Double slap...one for Palin, and one for every man and woman who has and is serving our country. Unbelievable. Lopez owes all, an apology. Thanks, Lopez for causing such a mess. I hope her constituants hold her responsible. 

Should the department store named TARGET be forced to change their name? This is all so ridiculous.

pip57

"Thanks, Lopez for causing such a mess. I hope her constituants hold her responsible." 

Yes, nobody else would have ever drawn the connection if it hadn't been for her. 

pip57

I think some "reasonable suspicion" is quite obvious.  But becomes extremely subjective at other times.  

rosemary-b

It's lunch time and I'm back. I am sure federal prosecution will come first and the shooter will be punished. You do not assasinate a federal official in a thwarted attempt to kill another and get away with it. The FBI will do its job.

Also, a question regarding Palin's ad with the surveyor signs or targets-tomato, tomato- no that doesn't work in print but-. what were people supposed to reload? Their red, white and blue pez dispensers?

Edited to add: I feel like I'm being told that these are not the droids I'm looking for.

pip57

I would agree with you tupelo.  However, it was another person who was laying the blame squarely at Lopez's feet.

Enjoyful

No, rosemary.  As everyone knows, Palin's map showed surveyors' marks.  People were supposed to reload their surveyor thingies.

I thought everyone know this? 

rosemary-b

Oh how silly of me. Did someone just argue for absolute freedom of speech. If so that would include obscenity. Yuck!

Enjoyful

Absolute freedom of speech?  I hope responsibility goes along with that.  What happens when someone you love gets trampled in a crowded movie theater when someone yells "FIRE!" ?

pip57

In Canada we have the right to free speech to.  With one exception.  We cannot incite violence.  I recognize that many Americans believe that this infringes on completely free speech.  I, however, believe that it works in tandem to protect the rights of individuals who are targeted by hate speech.