Is Anyone Doing an Alkaline Approach

educateoneself...What do you mean? You don't think it matters what a person's ph is...alkaline or acidic for one's health?

Ack!  I just hate hearing about anyone's cancer returning.  It's tragic, Pure, that your friend was misled by Dr. Young's unproven pH miracle "cure." 

This thread should definitely be updated just in case anyone might be inclined to follow Dr. Young's advice.

Wikipedia is not an authoritative source, but it's a great starting point for anyone who wants to learn about  both sides of any particular issue.

In this case, it presents some serious potential issues with "Dr." Young's pH theory:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Young_%28author%29 

Luckysmom, I agree that it's sad that doing this approach alone did not work long-term for Pure's friend. Since her doctors had declared her "incurable," it's probably a wonderful thing that she was able to be NED for so long.

I personally think there's great benefit in following an alkalizing diet/lifestyle (after all, it's pretty much in line with all the other healthy recommendations all over this forum - eat plenty of vegetables, minimize stress, etc.). I personally have had my doubts about Dr. Young, for several reasons, but even if he himself is rather questionable, it doesn't discount the value of the acid/alkaline theory.

As for alkaline water, I just add some organic lemon juice to most of the glasses of water I drink every day. I don't have the extra funds right now for a fancy-schmancy alkalizer, but lemon works just as well.

I agree with Crunchy. Having a more alkaline diet is pretty much in line with other healthy approaches. In fact, I'm trying my best to follow it, while still undergoing metronomic chemo together with Tamoxifen (and DIM, grape seed extract etc.). We just need to have the red flags up when someone like Dr.Young comes along and claims to have a 100% success rate with his PH miracle diet, and influences advanced cancer cases like Pure's friend Lisa to abandon her chemo treatment completely to follow Dr.Young's diet solely.

Everybody must make the decision that they are comfortable with. When I was Stage 1 I refused all allopathic treatment except for a lumpectomy. The thought of doing rads or chemo or even Tamox churned my stomach. Since being subsequently diagnosed as Stage 3, I have done chemo, various hormonals, and now am on metronomic chemo plus Tamox. I'm still very much a natural girl at heart so I'm doing whatever I can with my diet (including supplements) and lifestyle to beat this beast. My two-pronged approach (allopathic and holistic) to fighting cancer is what I am comfortable with at this stage. 

Like Luckysmom, Pure's thread got me all excited. In fact, I got an alkaline water system a couple of weeks ago, even though my finances are really challenging to say the least. Fortunately it only cost me a quarter of what the Kangen system (apparently the ultimate) costs, and with pretty much the same features too. Like many people here, I was simply adding lemon in my water to make it alkaline. Then my DH researched many types of alkaline water systems for me and bought this one so that I could also have the benefits of ionised water (lots of oxygen and antioxidants). I've been using the acid water it discharges to clean my skin mets too, as acid water sterilises and deodorizes. When washing vegetables and fruits, I select the highest pH value on the machine to get water which draws out any pesticides (if pesticides are present, it turns the water yellow). Even though Pure's friend's condition has taken a bad turn now I'm glad my DH got me this alkaline water system.

Anyway, threads like this can really influence people's decisions, which is why Pure really needs to update this thread. It's the responsible thing to do.

The alkaline-acid pH cancer diet has been disproven by science and facts so many times, that it's frustrating to see people still discussing it. 

Does anyone have ANY scientific data to suggest that cancer is caused by a pH imbalance?   Or that "ionized" water has ANY health benefits?  Or that you can manipulate your body's pH for health benefits?  Or that the pH of urine or saliva has any bearing on blood pH? 

Of course a healthy diet is beneficial, but it's not because it changes your body's pH!  

Not only is the alkaline/ionized water diet NOT a cure, it's not beneficial. It's a scam. It's nonsense.  It's scientifically invalid.  It's unconscionable to recommend or suggest it has any true health benefits, much less that it can be useful for a cancer patient. GAH!

Feel free to drink lemon water all day or waste money on pH miracles or test strips, but if you're going to claim they prevent/treat/cure cancer, then by all means show us some data. Please!

I'm horrified that people like Pure's friend fall for this nonsense, believing that any of it is true, and foregoing treatment that HAS been proven statistically beneficial, and then end up where she is now. Nobody claims that chemo or any conventional treatment is perfect, but is there even one single shred of evidence that this "alkaline approach" is remotely helpful???

Anyone who would summarize the pH theory by including a phrase like "Or that the pH of urine or saliva has any bearing on blood pH?" doesn't have the slightest grasp of what the theory is. For the thousandth freaking time... it's not about changing the body's pH or blood pH (duh!). It's about consuming foods and making lifestyle choices that have an alkalizing effect so that the body's buffering systems are not overtaxed, which would cause harmful health consequences. Here's yet another link that explains how this works. It's simple biology.

http://drbenkim.com/ph-body-blood-foods-acid-alkaline.htm

Most of us are NOT claiming that if you eat an all-alkalizing diet, cancer will be cured. Like MBJ said, there IS no cure for cancer that works 100% of the time for 100% of patients. This is simply one more useful tool in helping us determine what are the best foods to consume and the best lifestyle strategies to employ.

There is not a cure for cancer - but there are many lifestyle changes we can do to keep cancer away - one of them would be to increase the consumption of foods that are alkaline, which happens to be fruits and veggies.

There are research studies that show what we eat does matter.  A lot of these foods studied in these articles are alkaline. 

 http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/food.html

I believe there are research studies that show that a low fat diet is good for our triple negative sisters - again diet DOES matter and there is evidence if you spend some time doing some research. 

You state that an alkaline diet has been proven to not be beneficial - where is the evidence for that.  Please show us the information that increasing our intake of vegetables, and fruits is quackery. 

jsh22 : Multiple Myeloma is a cancer that affects the bone and bone marrow and develops in several places at the same time. The disease causes the growth of tumours in many bones, which can lead to bone pain and fractures. In addition, the disease often causes kidney problems and lowered resistance to infection....and the list goes on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_myeloma

I have mention before that a dear friend developed Multiple Myeloma 12 -13 years ago, and was given six months to live, back then. After his first round of chemo he thought it would kill him before the cancer did. He was one of the first people I spoke with for some advice on helping me with battling this bloomin beast. And he praised the importance of an alkaline diet...pointed me in the direction of oxygen therapies....maintaining a stress free life......exercising....turmeric....cruciferous... vegies....etc. I also had these things praised by the natural girls on this forum...and many other natural therapies from other cancer patients...while I was in and out of treatment. These alternatives have become a big part of my protocol...and I feel wonderful, vibrant and healthy.  

An alkaline diet has helped my dear friend live a further 13 years....and still going.  His bones ache occasionally...but he's still alive. The doctors say that it is a rare case...and that as far as they're concerned they're amazed he's still with us, today.

He did not follow through with his chemo...and decided to go totally natural. It worked for him...but it may not work for someone else.

I've gone the natural route....but I must say that if I had stage IV multiple myeloma...I don't know that I would've been as brave or as confident as he was to skip chemo and go with natures alternatives. But there you have it...it worked for him.

One knows their own body.

Victoria

P.S...I'm pretty sure there's another "Alkaline Approach" thread that was started back in June/July sometime?

Eating more alkaline so that the body needn't overtax itself makes a lot of sense to me. I think most people agree that consuming too much acid food is bad for health. Whether an alkaline diet in itself can "cure" cancer is another matter entirely. Although I would love to go natural completely, untl there's ample evidence that following any particular alternative protocol SOLELY will DEFINITELY rid my body of cancer, I don't think I have the guts to abandon all allopathic treatment just as yet. I'm Stage 3 with skin mets, not Stage 1.

Of course, allopathic cancer treatment can't guarantee a cure either. There are casualties in both camps. The last chemo I tried failed after just one cycle, although my onco had me carry on for another 2 cycles. I absolutely hated doing chemo. So my onco has agreed to let me do metronomic chemo (chemo through low-dose pills) now plus Tamox. If I could be certain there was a better, alternative way I would stop even this in a blink of an eye.

I started drinking alkaline water (using a cheap alkaline water pitcher) about 6 weeks ago, around the time I began metronomic chemo + Tamox (MCT). After some 3 weeks doing both alkaline water and MCT, the skin mets at the bottom of my breast started to shrink. Sinkholes appeared. 2 weeks ago, I started drinking alkaline water from a machine which also ionises the water. The skin mets at the bottom continued to shrink. All these 6 weeks, however, the skin mets at the top and side of my breast continued to grow, but noticeably slower than before.

So is the alkaline water to be credited for this shrinkage as well as slowing down of prpgression? It's hard to say, because I'm also doing MCT, as well as a host of various supplements and herbs. I've also been trying to follow the anti-estrogenic diet since 2 months ago. It has helped me lose weight which probably helps lower my estrogen levels too.

Interestingly, my cat Billy fell ill almost 2 weeks ago. He lost his appetite and was peeing blood. Billy is prone to urinary tract infection, so when he gets this sick we usually have to bring him to the vet and feed him by hand. This time around, as our alkaline water and ionising machine had just arrived, we switched his water to alkaline water. Guess what? Billy's fully recovered now, without us having to hand-feed him or see the vet. Was his recovery due to the alkaline water machine, as the water was the only thing different in his diet this time around? Honestly, I wish I knew for sure.

I'm not going to abandon the alkaline ship just because Pure's friend is doing badly now, but neither an I going to give up allopathic treatment solely to follow the alkaline diet, or any other alternative protocol for that matter. But I must say something seems to be working for me. I only wish I knew what it was exactly.

I know I'm jumping in mid thread here, but I have a question.  I had been taking Bragg's vinegar before my dx.  Then I heard acid was bad for cancer...so I stopped, thinking it would make me more acidic.  The little bit I have read now leads me to believe that just the opposite it true.  Can anyone give me some input or opinion on Bragg's organic cider vinegar?

Zogo,I'm not sure about Bragg's ACV and how it applies to the alkaline diet. I dont think Dr. Young (pH Miracle) advocates vinegar. I dont exactly follow his protocol though.  I've also heard great things about it and have some in my arsenal. Some things, even though acidic in nature like lemon and lime juice actually affect your body in an alkaline way. 

Barry,Well said about stress!  My husband and I started a business almost 6 years ago. With a 1.5 million dollar small business loan on the line and 15 employees, my stress level was through the roof!  I worked two shifts when someone would call in, which was often (sometimes 3rd shift) and then come home and do my accounting. My sleep suffered, I didnt eat well. I have no doubt the business and abusing my body led to my cancer diagnosis.  When I was diagnosed, I took a step back and realized I couldn't do it anymore. Fortunately, when we opened, we hit the ground running and that has allowed us to make some changes. I still work but from home, I hardly ever cover someones shift and I dont worry about the day to day issues anymore. I still feel stressed from time to time but I know how to deal with it now.  I have no doubt that low stress coupled with diet and excercise can help our bodies recover. 

Crunchy, I want to jump in here because this is starting to drag up scary memories for me.  Early in my tx, between my lumpectomy and mastectomy, when I was still a novice at the whole bc thing and hoping to find a way to avoid the mx my first surgeon had just told me I needed, I went to see a local, very highly-regarded compounding pharmacist who is known for helping many people with a wide variety of health issues, often incorporating the high ph water & water filter systems he sells into what he recommends.  Long story short, in his professional capacity, he absolutely advised me not to let myself be slashed, poisoned & burned because he could CURE me with high ph water.  He actually put me on the phone to some medical researcher (maybe Dr. Young, for all I know), who swore he had cured 8 or 9 cancer patients using very high ph water.  Well, I mulled it over for a day or two, but what bothered me was that neither of these people ever asked me any specifics about the type of bc I had, and after then going to UCLA for a second medical opinion, I decided I was far more comfortable putting my life in their hands than a voice on the phone assuring me he could cure me because he'd cured lung and other cancer patients.

The point of this story is, you happen to be a very savvy bc patient and consumer.  But many women are not -- especially in the early stages when they are in a surreal daze, as I was, and most fearful of conventional treatment.  And, unfortunately, as illustrated by my personal experience, not everyone touting the high PH or alkaline approach is describing it as you and I maybe now understand it.  Some are clearly misleading people to believe that putting high alkaline-high PH food or water into their bodies will CURE cancer.

Okay...  just had to throw this out there -- not to debate you (because you know I care about you), and not to get in the middle of an argument, but because I know thenewme certainly isn't a troll, but rather another well-read bc patient searching for the right treatment, because all of our lives depend on it.  And I think we have to be aware that many times newly-dx'd women who are not nutrition savvy but just searching for anything to avoid conventional treatment can be easily and dangerously misled, and I just want to be very sure that we all keep that in mind.      Deanna 

Deanna, of course you're right and yes, we are on the same team here... I probably shouldn't have implied thenewme is a troll, but geez Louise, all the repeatedly false statements and links to pages that are totally inaccurate about the very topic this whole thread is about started to get a little ridiculous!

The vast majority of us in the alternative/complementary forum are respectful, logical, rational, intelligent people who know how to engage in a discussion without resorting to insults, accusations, repeated posting of misinformation without even bothering to do any meaningful investigation of those links, etc. I guess when someone repeatedly invades good discussions and does resort to those tactics, instead of doing some real research (beyond the #1, 2 and 3 Google search results) and contributing their point of view in a respectful and logical way, then keeps on and on and ON doing that, it just gets old... ya know? (Thank you to all of you who DO contribute to this forum in a respectful and logical way... I appreciate you!)

With that out of the way... like you said, Deanna, there are definitely unscrupulous people who try to push certain aspects of nutrition as "THE CURE" and that nothing else is needed, and as you know, I'm 100% against those people -- even if there are positive aspects to what they're promoting.

For instance, I'm in favor of the general principles of the Budwig diet... BUT, there is a Budwig forum where the pitfalls are not allowed to be mentioned or discussed, and any suggestion that the Budwig is anything less than a 100% cure for cancer is deleted by the moderator. (Chillipadi, you know that all too well.) That is absolutely irresponsible, just as much so if a doctor were to tell a patient that chemo is the ONLY cure and that diet/lifestyle don't make a shred of difference. Either extreme is deadly!

I have to say I agree with CrunchyPoodleMama. It's infuriating when people comment who haven't educated themselves on the facts. The same ones who are asking for "scientific evidence" are posting links from the "nutritiondiva" as being fact. The last link on thenewme's post states the the alkaline diet excludes healthy fats which is completely untrue. Robert Young owns an organic avocado farm for heaven's sake!  Know the facts before you argue a point!

I understand we have all been in the place where our heads are spinning and we are scared. My advice to the newly diagnosed; Educate yourselves. Dont just take things at face value- when it comes from the medical community or something you read in a book or online. Do your research then do what feels right to you.

Someone on the fungal thread asked me how I felt about Hepceptin, as I am Her2+.  "It's not chemo," they say, "it's an monoclonal antibody." Well, does anyone know how the monoclonal antibodies are made?  It scares me to think of that going into my veins.

I believe diet is crucial for good health but when your immune system has been ravaged by chemo, diet may not be enough.  Maybe no one's considered that with Pure's friend.

In the end, no matter what we choose, it's our decision and it's never an easy one to make!  Think, become educated, pray....God said, "My people perish for lack of knowledge."

Pure- Im sorry about your friend I will keep her in my prayers

Chill- I dont know if you read the whole thread from the beginning but pure never stated it was a "Cure all" Nor did she imply that it cured her friend she simply stated that her friend was feeling better and since pure herslef had started the alkiline diet she was feeling better she herself never gave up tx or chemo- If i was in pures friends situation i would want to do whatever i had to, Since i started the alkiline diet i have felt better and looked better than i did before having bc it is a healthy diet, it cant hurt its a different lifestyle than i had before now im eating healthier. I dont think she has to retract her staements or offer any apologies to anyone, besides you have already updated it for her.