Canadian Health Care

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  • Moderators
    Moderators Member Posts: 25,912
    edited December 2009
    Hello All, In order to keep this thread active, Breastcancer.org is asking for a much more respectful approach to this discussion. We ask that you not be removing other people's posts, or insulting others with differing opinions. If this continues, we will need to delete the thread.Thank you for your understanding,Melissa and team p.s I also posted this on the other healthcare thread.  
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  • crazy4carrots
    crazy4carrots Member Posts: 5,324
    edited December 2009

    So is it true that the U.S. equivalent of "eh" is "huh"? 

    Was it on this thread that we had a whole bunch of examples of the different terms used on either side of the border?  Like serviette/napkin, pop/soda etc.?

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  • lewing
    lewing Member Posts: 1,288
    edited December 2009

    I would really hope that the moderators would not respond to abuse of this wonderful, friendly, entirely fond and respectful thread by *deleting* it.  That would be unfair and counterproductive.  The abuse isn't originating with the contributors here.

    Linda

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  • barbe1958
    barbe1958 Member Posts: 19,757
    edited December 2009

    Well at least I know my post hit a nerve. It should have! Yell

    Isn't there like 40% of the US population that don't pay their taxes? Maybe they should start there...

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  • lewing
    lewing Member Posts: 1,288
    edited December 2009

    Barbe, I don't know the exact figures on tax compliance - but evasion would be nowhere near 40%. 

    I think the more fundamental question is, how do you divvy up the cost of providing decent health care for your population?  You can spread the cost over the entire population based on ability to pay, via the tax system.  That's more or less how you all do it, right?  (In simplified form, I mean.)

    Or you can go the U.S. route, and put the bulk of the burden on employers (who may or may not take it up) and individuals.  People still pay (through the nose and several other orifices!), but as workers, policyholders or patients, not as taxpayers.  I think the tax system is a lot fairer, myself, but as you've seen on other threads, not everyone agrees.

    In the fragmented U.S. system, it's really, really hard to change the payment system to incentivise (was going to change the "s" to a "z", but left it) better quality, more effective, better integrated care.  I would think that would be easiER (though still, I'm sure, not easy) in a single-payer system.

    Linda

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  • AnnNYC
    AnnNYC Member Posts: 4,484
    edited December 2009

    I second what Lewing has asked of the Moderators -- please don't delete this conversation on the basis of "community removal" of comments.  I would ask the Moderators to scrutinize who is doing the deleting -- I doubt that any deleters have participated in this conversation.  The members conversing here should not be punished for others' harassment.

    Thanks,

    Ann

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  • konakat
    konakat Member Posts: 6,085
    edited December 2009

    Moderators -- Thank-you for stepping in so quickly.  And please don't delete this thread -- lots of good Canadian-American/international sisterly respect happening here even with censor swoop-ins.

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  • Bren-2007
    Bren-2007 Member Posts: 6,241
    edited December 2009

    Madalyn,

      I appreciated your computations on the other thread.  I forgot about the dollar value difference in each country!  Good thing I'm not a mathematician.  It was interesting how the % of federal taxes and income brackets varied so with the US, and fewer brackets in Canada.  I wonder how each country figures that out .. or decides on %/income bracket?

    Bren

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  • crazy4carrots
    crazy4carrots Member Posts: 5,324
    edited December 2009

    Bren, I don't know how they categorize the income brackets, although I'm sure there are a whack of actuaries and economists who all have their say! Then of course their conclusions go to (in Canada) the Finance Ministry, and then onto the floor of the House of Commons in a Budget address.  At least I think that's how it goes Undecided

    I think those of us in both countries would be amazed at the amount of government involvement in everyday affairs and the commodities we all use.  Just yesterday I read that 37 cents of every quart of milk sold in the U.S. is a government subsidy.  Subsidies exist everywhere you look, and I'm sure 99% of us never stop to think about how much government involvement (besides the obvious Medicare/Medicaid/SS) keeps many industries alive and people working.

    Hugs to all,  Linda  (and a big fat squishy welcome hug to you, Bren!)

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  • rinna40
    rinna40 Member Posts: 357
    edited December 2009

    Welcome back Frick. 

    I so enjoy reading posts on this thread. So nice to have Canadians and Americans getting along.

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  • mke
    mke Member Posts: 584
    edited December 2009

    The Toronto public library doesn't have a copy of "The Healing of America."  Dang.  Well maybe they will get some.

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  • konakat
    konakat Member Posts: 6,085
    edited December 2009

    MKE -- they might be able to get the book through interlibrary loan.

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  • barbe1958
    barbe1958 Member Posts: 19,757
    edited December 2009

    Layne, I wasn't talking about evasion when I posted that stat about US taxes....in fact an American PM'd me to kindly tell me my figure was too LOW!!! I had read it on the first Healthcare thread that got deleted months ago...

    She explained about the EITC's and how so much that is paid is actually returned to the payee. The system is too generous in their allowances.

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  • hrf
    hrf Member Posts: 3,225
    edited December 2009

    I didn't know there was a lottery system in Canada. I have never heard of such a thing. Where does it exist and why?

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  • konakat
    konakat Member Posts: 6,085
    edited December 2009

    I've heard of the lottery once in northern Ontario (?) -- where a new doc in a remote location was accepting patients but the demand exceeded the number he/she could handle.  Whoever didn't get accepted would just continue going to clinics or the doc they already had.  

    On a positive note, there was a news item on TV that by 2011 (2012?) it is expected that there will be enough family docs graduating that 95% of the population with have their own family docs, no longer having to go to walk in clinics.  If you discount the number of people (men!) who don't have regular check-ups it looks like supply has finally caught up with demand. 

    Edit for our American friends:  The above does NOT mean 5% of the population goes without care!  There are plently of walk-in clinics for everyone to see a doc as needed.  It's just nicer to have the same doc.

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  • hrf
    hrf Member Posts: 3,225
    edited December 2009

    Thanks for the clarification.

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  • frickfrack
    frickfrack Member Posts: 1
    edited December 2009
    http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/257099
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  • lassie11
    lassie11 Member Posts: 1,500
    edited December 2009

    Yes - that kind of lottery where the doctor selects new patients is what I experienced. I said that on the other thread in response to the hysteria about the article in Gander and it got misconstrued.

    When my family doctor retired (always choose a doctor younger than you are!) I put my name in at one place and did not get selected. Later, when another doctor joined the same practice, both my daughter and I got in. I met the guy once, got diagnosed shortly afterwards and now he gets copies of every report. It most certainly is NOT a lottery for health care. Between family doctors, I had full access to health care through the walk in clinic nearby - which apparently is quite a different creature from a walk in clinic in the US.

    Our small city has taken significant measures to recruit new doctors and I think when all the promised ones arrive we will be pretty close to fully covered.

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  • Kyta
    Kyta Member Posts: 713
    edited December 2009

    Enjoyful, frick now frick/frack LOL.....are you feeling slightly schizophrenic??

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  • pip57
    pip57 Member Posts: 12,401
    edited December 2009

    My sister, who has lived in the States for 35 years, emailed me this morning.  She recently found out that her family doc of 25 years is moving his practice and she will soon be without a doctor.  There is a real shortage of docs in her area and she already has to travel over 20 miles to see this one.  She will not drive the 50 minutes it will take her now if she goes to his new practice.  

    She says that people in her area have been without docs for several years and now she is one of them. She thinks that she will  end up having to go to emergency to get simple tx now. What really ticks her off is that she found this out inadvertently.  No one from his office notified her that this was happening.

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  • barbe1958
    barbe1958 Member Posts: 19,757
    edited December 2009

    Either way, better a lottery for a regular doctor than one that decides who gets sent to war!

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  • lewing
    lewing Member Posts: 1,288
    edited December 2009

    Barbe: in the spirit of learning more about policies in our two countries, I thought I'd weigh in on your EITC reference.  That's actually one of the better features of our tax system - it's a refundable income tax credit for low-income workers.  It helps compensate for the fact that workers who pay little or no federal income tax (because their incomes are too low) still get socked by payroll taxes (and sales taxes, and, in many cases, state and local income taxes, etc. etc.).  I wouldn't call the program "too generous" by any means.  I wish it were more so! 

    But your basic point about there being plenty of room to fund universal health care, if we could just summon the will to do it, is well taken.  We could start by taking a look at the marginal rates at the top of the income distribution . . .

    Linda

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  • barbe1958
    barbe1958 Member Posts: 19,757
    edited December 2009

    Linda, it wasn't me who said it was too generous...it was the American poster to my PM.

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  • konakat
    konakat Member Posts: 6,085
    edited December 2009

    The problem in the US is that healthcare is a for-profit business -- that is the main impediment to universal care funded by taxpayers.  Since it isn't for-profit in Canada we can afford to cover all our citizens and residents without breaking the bank.

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  • pip57
    pip57 Member Posts: 12,401
    edited December 2009

    In addition, I think that a lot of the problems in the medicare/medicade systems are due to the fact that they are the 'poor cousin' in the health care system.  They become the second class citizens in a for profit system so of course they will be the ones to suffer.  In a single payer system, everyone is on the same playing field.

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  • barbe1958
    barbe1958 Member Posts: 19,757
    edited December 2009

    And that wraps it up folks! We've come full-circle from what we were saying months ago, but no one wanted to hear it on the other thread.

    Our job is done,Laughing after months of careful brainstorming, the solution is clear. Take away the for-profit portion and all will be good! 

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  • AnnNYC
    AnnNYC Member Posts: 4,484
    edited December 2009

    Hello to Enjoyful, if you're reading!  I'm not sure the new poster "FrickFrack" is really Enjoyful -- a new poster named "Frack" definitely is not!

    As for the meaning of "eh" -- I always that it meant something like saying, "right?" or "y'know?" at the end of a statement, asking for the listener's agreement.  Or, as the mostly German and Polish-descended of us growing up in rural/small-town Wisconsin would say, "not?" or "n'so?" ("isn't that so?"). I think I got it, eh?

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  • Bren-2007
    Bren-2007 Member Posts: 6,241
    edited December 2009

    Hello, hello ... I'm bored and getting myself into trouble with the "right."

    Damn .. need to head outside where my fingers can't reach the keybord.

    hugs,

    Bren

    PS .. In Peoria, IL, soda pop is called sodie.

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  • Kyta
    Kyta Member Posts: 713
    edited December 2009

    Hi AnnNYC ~ I agree that "Frack" is not Enjoyful, and you're correct in your definition of "eh"...well done.

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  • pip57
    pip57 Member Posts: 12,401
    edited December 2009

    My American nieces are always teasing us about the use of 'eh'.  I never realized how much we used it.  But I have noticed the 'huh' creeping in when they are talking.

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