Positive Obama thread

Grace,

I agree with most of what you said on your post.  I'm from Germany, but live in the US.  Most of my family lives back in Germany.  I took my kids back for a visit last year for a little over 2 weeks.  They all thought we were crazy for "only" having that much vacation time.  My cousins every year go to Spain, Hungry, or other country's for 4 weeks..paid.  And then usually take the other 2 weeks off at home..paid.  Health care, they are taken care of far better than I am and I am paying huge!!  I'm self employed and pay for my medical insurance, which is crap.  They do have cars, but they walk to the stores and get fresh food every day.  No freezers.  All environmentally healthy as well as a good personal choice.  Maybe its the name "socialism" that scares people?  I don't know.  But I do think they better get ready.  As I spoke about before, the greed factor that has been going on in this country I believe is reaching a ceiling.  People can not continue to hoard things and let the masses go hungry and with no health care or housing.  It WILL get ugly at some point.  That's history.  That's human nature.  I don't see the problem in taking care of each other.  I don't understand.  I am middle class..well..maybe now considered to be working poor.  My point is there are people that are much worse off than me.  And I am for helping them.  It can not continue that the small percentage of the population hoards the money and expects the rest to do the work.  It will fall from the top down.  Good post, Grace. 

g

Grace and Little-g,

The scoialist experiment did not work as evidenced by the fall of socialist regimes in Soviet Union and other Eastern Europe countries. Germany is a captialist country which has some social programs supported by government. But with this comes strict rules and government control.

Let's take Germany for example. Do you know for instance that a high school student cannot gto to college unless he passes some "ability" test in 9th grade so he can be considered college worthy. If he does not pass it, he is steered toward a "trade school'. He can take college entrance exam later , but his chances are considerably smaller at that point. I used to work wih a man from Germany who had to apply for 3 years fater high school to get into a college since he did not do well at this one time test in his high school. That's how they keep education chepaer by classifying kids into college bound or not early on life and weeding out considerable majority. Here in America we beleive that everyone should be given a chance. He also told me how restrictive life in Germany was and how happy he was to be here.

As far as a socialized healthcare goes, I have an interesting story. We met this couple from Canada and she was telling us that their national helthcare was very good, she is able to see her doctors when needed right away. Her husband smiled and said that she was omitting some details though. Then she added that her father was a physician, so when she needed an appointment he would call and she will be seen in a few days. And her friends who would have to wait 4-6 weeks would call her father asking for help and their wait will be cut to 1 week.

This reminded me of my life in Sovite Union. We did have a national healthcare, but it was who you know . I remember  I had some serious health issues with my kidneys and I would have to wait 2-3 weeks to see a specialist. But my uncle had a friend who had a friend who knew an urologist so they were able to see me in a few days. My Mom was so worried and I sometimes think of it and think how horrified I would be if one of my kids were in this position and I did not know anyone.

Having said that I would like to have some kind of a basic healthcrare available to all citizens funded by our taxes. But then for more elective thins we would either get employer insurance, buy additional insurance or just pay out of pocket.

 As far as Norway goes, they enjoy good life because of the oil they produce. I guess they don't mind oil dirlling like we do here in America as they like their other perks. There is price to pay for everything, no such thing as a free lunch.

We received thank you cards promptly after every donation and a big Happy Holidays (not specifying what holiday) with a thank you this last week.  We're saving it for our children because it is actually signed by Michelle and Barrack.  In our experience, the Obamas and their staff are very gracious and polite.  It helps prove what incredible diplomats they will be worldwide (very important to us).

Anna

Well, other countries have strict immigration laws, we'd be better served if we did the same.

We have plenty of people that we should be serving rather than take in immigrants who get benefits without having first contributed.  I think we have so many families, who've lived here for generations; generations that have paid taxes, improved the land, taught children, etc and here their descendants can't make ends meet or die because they didn't get a mammogram ... I believe we should be taking care of our own before taking in the poor and downtrodden of another country. 

I used to be against socialized medicine.  But I belong to an HMO and I like having a network of dr's.  I was asked if I thought health insurance was a right or a privilege.  I smarted off and said it was a privilege, I pay for it!! 

Two seconds, later, really, I teared up as I thought if I had no insurance how unfair it would be to me and my daughter... that I would have put off the mammo until I could find a free one. That I would never have been able to afford the herceptin treatment which was in trial stages, not the standard treatment.  Soooooooooooo, every child deserves to have their parents raise them.  I told the person, no, it's a right to have coverage. Everyone should have it ...

But I do believe we have to tighten up our purses, close our doors and take care of our people. We are in sad shape and things do need to change.

ljl:  This is in response to your post about discussing healthcare in Canada.  What some call "socialized medicine", we call universal healthcare.

I worked for many years in the largest health sciences centre in Canada, in Toronto.  I retired and we moved to a smaller comunity (about 1 1/2 hour's drive away) where I didn't know any medical people.  Nevertheless.....

.....I was diagnosed in late December, had an appt with a bs first week of January, had a lumpectomy 2 weeks later, and then a mastectomy in early February.  Met with an oncologist in early March (after I'd recovered) and then started chemo in April (I had a choice about chemo so took some extra time to decide).  Finished tx in July and had followup appt and diagnostics in November.  All this in my new community where I knew no one.  I could have gone back to Toronto (or anywhere else, in fact) to have all this done, but did my research on the docs here and decided they were just as good!

My husband waited 3 months for a non-urgent colonscopy, and 6 months for non-urgent cataract surgery.  But, if either had been urgent necessities, he would have been seen immediately.

When I retired, I decided to continue with the health and dental coverage I'd had at work, but of course I pay for it now.  It is used mostly for dental, and now for Femara, although if I was "in need", the government would cover the cost.  If I was over 65, I would pay about $10 per prescription.  Yes, we pay a bit more in taxes, but I've never ever heard anyone here complain about that.  Instead, I think we all take pride in the fact that we are making sure those less fortunate than us will never go into debt, or lose their houses, or be afraid to change jobs because of personal health care costs.  Sickness "happens", regardless of how well off we are.

I am truly amazed (and angered) that so many apparently loving, caring, folk are so against universal health coverage.  I don't consider Canadian healthcare to be the perfect model, but it sure beats the "I want what's best for me and to h*** with other people" feeling I get from reading some of the posts on this board.

By the way, the Ontario govenment initiated a Wait Times strategy a couple of years ago, to help ensure that sick people are treated in a timely (life-saving) manner.

With respect,

Linda

I have to agree with Torch Song. No one should have to spend their time worrying about how or if they can pay the medical bills.  I am getting really concerned now with the massive layoffs that are going on that there will be people who can not afford to pay the COBRA and may need to stop treatment. Not to mention the women who will delay diagnosis because they can't afford the appointments or tests.  I'm willing to wait a little longer for care if it means that women don's have to die of something that could be treated. 

ljl:  Why don't you ask them why they choose to pay, rather than wait?

I think we're talking about two different things here.  There's fairness (everyone is entitled to the same care here, regardless of one's ability to pay), and then there is market availability.  We have private clinics in Canada that provide certain kinds of treatment (orthopaedic procedures, cosmetic surgery, laser eye surgery and hernia surgery, for example) for those who "just can't wait".  But there are also those who mistakenly believe that the care will be better in the U.S.

My argument is that, when one's life (or lifestyle) is threatened because of sickness, no Canadian goes without care because he/she can't afford it, or has lost their job and lacks insurance coverage.

Oh, and I believe it's a heck of alot easier to just hand over one's government-issued healthcard, and not have to deal with the administrative nightmares caused by insurance companies who care only for profit, and not for patients.  JMO, of course.

Linda,

We have private clinics in Canada that provide certain kinds of treatment

I undertsand that there are a lot of restrictions on opening private hospitals and clinics. That canadian woman I mentioned in my previous post told us that it's not technically legally to open certain private clinics.

 I did find the following article regarding private practice in Canada which also mentions the technical law issues with private practices. I am interested in hearing your opinion on this.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/28/international/americas/28canada.html

But should we be forced to pay for them???  And why do the border states have pay for the care that the Feds say we must provide but won't reimburse us.  See, people in, say, the midwest, probably don't have a lot of illegals from down south but their representatives in Congress, along with alot of others voted that we spend our dollars not theirs.

Amy,

Ther is a difference between legal and illegal immigrants, the last ones are people who cut in front of line. There are people all over the world following our immigration laws, filing the papers and waiting for years to see if they can come in.

When my family was immigrating, we had to leave Russia first and the wait in Italy for 4 months to see whether USA would let us in. We had to pass a physical among other things and not everyone was allowed to immigrate to USA. We had "easier" time as we were political refugees due to well established fact that Jews were prosecuted in Soviet Union. And even then we had to go through a long process to get here.

In the perfect world everyone could come here and enjoy all our benefits, but in reality we just CANNOT afford it. I mean it's simple matter of mathematics : so much money, so many people.So we need laws otherwise USA will become Mexico and where will we go then ?

 Holland has immigration problems and  a lot of  people who immigrate there come from very religious background and are not tolerant of Dutch more liberal society. In fact now they make people who are trying to come legally to watch a DVD showing nude beaches and gay couple kissing. The officials then have interviews trying to see  how tolerant of this culture will the prospective citizens be. Of course illegal immigrants are not given this litmus test and a lot of them are prejudiced. As you might recall the famous cases of killing Pim Fortuyn, a homosexual politician and Theo van Gogh, an anarchist moviemaker who was critical of Islam in his work , in 2002 and 2004 respectively. In the resulting shock, the Dutch had to face the fact that many of their newly arrived neighbors were unwilling to accept Holland's traditional liberal tolerance and proclaimed Nederland is vol" (The Netherlands are full).

RB: Illegal immigrants pay taxes, including Social Security and sales taxes, that benefit us:

According to a New York Times article on April 5, 2005, "...the estimated seven million or so illegal immigrant workers in the United States are now providing the system with a subsidy of as much as $7 billion a year....Moreover, the money paid by illegal immigrants and their employers is factored into all the Social Security Administration's projections."  

However,since illegal immigrant workers are here illegally, and ostensibly presented fake ID to the US employer, they will never collect Social Security benefits. "For illegal immigrants, Social Security numbers are simply a tool needed to work on this side of the border. Retirement does not enter the picture," reports the New York Times.

Part of the problem is that the federal govt. doesn't reimburse the states for money they spend on social services for illegal immigrants.  That's why states with big immigrant populations like CA are always demanding money from Washington.  And big companies that hire illegal immigrants as a way to cut costs don't pony up to the states either.  But for those who hate illegal immigrants, there's a silver lining in the lousy economy: they're not coming over as much now.  Recessions make better walls than actual walls.  (And you know who's building those walls.)  

On a different topic . . .

A new Senate report says the physical and mental abuse of detainees in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay Naval Base was the direct result of Bush administration policies and should not be blamed on guards and interrogators.

The report from the Senate Armed Services Committee is the result of a two-year investigation. It directly links President Bush's policies after the 9/11 terrorist attacks, legal memos on torture and interrogation rule changes with the abuse that was photographed at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq four years ago.

The report says administration officials publicly blamed the abuses on low-level soldiers but called that "both unconscionable and false."

And just yesterday, Condi Rice was still insisting the U.S. never abused or tortured as policy . . . 

Hi RM:

I'm curious about your note re folks without insurance using the ER.  Hope you, or anyone here, can answer a few questions for me:

a) do private and public hospitals deal with non-payment differently?

b) are non-bill payers subject to lawsuits by the hospitals?

c) what criteria are used in determining eligibility for medicaid?

d) is healthcare a federal or state responsibility, or is the responsibility shared in some way?

Sorry, I realize this is sort of "off-topic" for this thread but also an opportunity for your northern neighbours to learn more about U.S. healthcare.

Thanks!

I live on the Central coast in CA. We have a large Hispanic population here. In fact, CA is quickly moving to become a minority majority state. Two of the largest groups moving into  the SF and SJ areas (East Bay also) are Asian and Indian--by far the growth rate in  the middle of CA (including the central valley)  have the  highest change in growth rates in the last 10 years! The Hispanic populations in our areas are staying the same--there has been little change in the growth rates!

Having been declared disabled and unable to return to work, I am now experiencing the joys of dealing with SS & Medicare. In all their publications and my conversations with SS employees, I have learned that you cannot draw SS unless you have paid into the system for a certain # of quarters, or live with a spouse who is over 65 and has worked at least the minimum # of quarters. I have a relative that has not worked in 35 years, and when she did, only worked a few quarters. She is disabled and is unable to draw any type of SSdisability payments! So, being a true experience for a US citizen, I find it hard to believe that Mexicans are able to do what my relative is unable to do--collect SS!!

I've also learned through this process that Mexicans who are here illegally do not find jobs that pay them very much money. They are either paid in cash under the table by an employer (who does not send in the taxes and SS payments for their work as required by law) and they cannot draw SS. If the employer does pay them by business check, this is often reported by the employer who either uses a fake SS number or someone else's number to send in the SS taxes. so, the "illegal" (I dislike that name also, Amy) person pays into the system but never benefits from it. At one time, it was reported that there were millions of dollars in the system that have never been claimed. Before we lay blame on the Mexicans who come across the border to earn money for their family in Mexico; we first need to hold the employers responsible for this system. They have used it for a long time in an illegal manner, and they need to be stopped! All businesses should be investigated for any illegal employment and improper tax payments toward SS or any other agency as required by state and federal laws. They should be fined and made to pay restitution. And I would include in this, the people driving by on street corners or near lumber yards that stop and gather up a truckload of Mexicans to come and do work on their property. These two groups--private individuals and businesses--are taking advantage of these immigrants as well as the government agencies they are required to report to. I agree with Amy. Anyone of us would come across the border and want to work in this country if we saw a better life for our family. If eastern european countries had a border w/US--the same type of movements across borders would happen. Position and circumstance relative to US borders creates this, and no matter what group of people lived next to us--if they saw they could do better here they would cross the border!

As far as healthcare, any of us can find pro and con situations that happen in any healthcare system. My example would be that my pain management doctor has a 90 day waiting list because he is one of the finest docs in Northern CA. So, we all will wait somewhere along the line, even if we have the best medical insurance we can afford! Some healthcare plans are better than others. And then there are those with no healthcare plan or unable to afford a healthcare plan. What is wrong with having a Universal healthcare plan for all citizens that is EQUITABLE in cost and care. That is the key word! As RTM said, it is a right. This country is so rich in resources, why aren't we, US citizens, willing to give a hand to those less fortunate than us? What happened to treating others aw we want to be treated? What happened to bring your tired, your hungry, your pour? Our relatives were all there reading those words at sometime in our lives (unless we were First Nation people on this continent). Why do we not look at how other cultures work to raise everyone up, and instead we are so eager to step on our fellow man to raise ourselves--so selfish. As Hilary said, "It takes a village to raise a child." Well, it takes a country to raise it's poor and make this country a better place to live for all of us.

There was a poll report on the news last night--of those polled, 64% said they would be willing to take a 5% pay cut, if it would save the jobs of their fellow employees. This is what will make America great again. You are only as rich as your poor! We have Americans living in 12,000 sq ft homes with all the stuff money can buy, and enough money to buy the next gadget that comes out or the dream trip that costs thousands of dollars. Yet, last night walking on the levee in our downtown with the two dogs and my dh, we came across two homeless men sleeping in the open with a thin blanket to share. The comparison is so embarrassing when we consider this is supposed to be the greatest nation in the world. That we can let this happen all over the United States is a disgrace. That we can turn a blind eye to these conditions is a disgrace. That we can go and buy whatever we want; and these two men face the possibility of dying from the cold is abominible. If it hadn't been so late, we would have gone to the department store miles away and returned with a blanket for each of them.

I agree with Madalyn, many come here because this is a great country. Many of us stay here because this is a great country and we want to make it even better; or better yet, we want to return it to a prosperous place to live once more and hopefully for all of us. If we all unite together we can make that happen. Right now, we are only as strong as our weakest. We must care for our neighbors again. We must look to the left and right of us and work to bring about the rights we all should have, not just the few. Giving of ourselves and our wealth; will return to us tenfold. 

It's time we did what is right for all.