Bible Study for the Biblically Challenged Anyone?

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  • LuAnnH
    LuAnnH Member Posts: 8,847
    edited November 2008

    Nevermind I found it and have read that part already.  I don't understand why Abram was not allowed to say she was his wife and said she was his sister.  Maybe I missed some stuff???

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  • Springtime
    Springtime Member Posts: 5,355
    edited November 2008

    LuAnn,

    Sarah and Abram are in Genesis. They get married around Ch. 11, and it's still going in Ch 21. It is like a Soap Opera!! 

    Spring.

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  • LuAnnH
    LuAnnH Member Posts: 8,847
    edited November 2008

    Well I am only in the beginning of the soap opera.  I am too tired to concentrate enough to understand what I am reading tonight so I will give it a shot tomorrow and shoot questions as I go along.

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  • mommacope21
    mommacope21 Member Posts: 3
    edited November 2008

    as a matter of discussion, the Holy Bible is the most powerful book of Truth and Promises that God has to offer. It is when we dig into that word...that it becomes a living part of our spiritual being. Once we have asked Him to enter into our lives...and we allow Him to come and lead our lives.....that is where Life exists! I love talking about all that God has given and promises us...

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  • moodyk13
    moodyk13 Member Posts: 1,180
    edited November 2008

    Sarah Part II

     Gen 17:21 - 22 "But My covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah shall bear to you at this set time in the next year.  Then He finished talking with him, and God went up from Abraham."

    My footnotes say "The promise was clear.  The father and mother were named, the child was named and the time was named"  And God holds true to His word and He fulfilled His promise!

    Sarah has a sense of humor.  Can you imagine being told your gonna have sex and a baby at 90! LOL

    Gen 18:12 "So Sarah laughed to herself, thinking, "After I have grown old, shall I have pleasure, especially when my husband is old too?"

    Do you think she had a relationship with God?  From what I have read in the scriptures I assume she believed in God but I don't remember her having and actual conversation with Him before this.  Anyone want to add to this that would be great!

    Well, as always, God hears our words and knows our hearts and He knew what Sarah's response was.  And as always, His response was perfect!

    Gen 18:13 - 14   "And the LORD said to Abraham, "Why did Sarah laugh, saying, ‘Shall I surely bear a child, since I am old?'  Is any thing too hard for the LORD? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son."

    Oooh Sarah lies to the Lord!!!!  Like He wouldn't know.

    Gen 18:15 "Then Sarah lied, saying, "I did not laugh," for she was afraid. But the Lord said, "No, but you did laugh!"

    Here is where it gets interesting.  Remember back in chapter 12 when Abraham asked Sarah to tell Pharaoh she is his sister so he won't be killed?  Well as spring says above "its a soap opera..." keep reading!

    Because of Sarah's beauty, she attracted lots of attention every where they went, especially from kings.  When they traveled to Gerar, King Abimelech set his sights on her too.

    Gen 20:2 "And Abraham said of Sarah his wife, She is my sister: and Abimelech king of Gerar sent, and took Sarah."

    But God won't allow anyone to interfere with His plans, this includes kings!

    Gen 20:3 "But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, ‘Indeed you are a dead man because of the woman whom you have taken, for she is a man's wife."

    God had not allowed Abimelech to touch her either.

    Gen 20:6 - 7 "Then in the dream God replied to him, "Yes, I know that you did this in the integrity of your heart. For I also withheld you from sinning against Me; therefore I did not allow you to touch her. But now give back the man's wife. Indeed he is a prophet and he will pray for you; thus you will live. But if you don't give her back, know that you will surely die along with all who belong to you."

    And here is where we learn the truth about Abraham and Sarah's family connection:  Abimelech confronts Abraham about lying to him regarding Sarah being his sister.  Abimelech obviously had a relationship with God.  I say this because of 3 things, 1- he hears God, 2 - he fears God, and 3 - he obeys God.  Love to hear anyone's thoughts about this, this is just "my take".  

    Gen 20:9 "Then Abimelech called Abraham, and said to him, What have you done to us? How have I offended you, that you have brought on me and my kingdom a great sin? You have done deeds that ought not be done."

    Abraham responds Gen 20:12 "And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife."

    Then God fulfills His promise to them both that they will have a son and name him Isaac.  You can read it Genesis 21:2 - 7.

    Next part is Sarah and Hagar and the so important role Hagar plays in all this and how this still affects us to this day.

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  • vivre
    vivre Member Posts: 2,167
    edited November 2008

    I think that if we try to read specific parts of the Bible, the posts could get really long and I know it is really hard to "talk" about the Bible this way. What if we just opened it up to anyone to post a Bible passage that means something to them and we can each tell why. That way, we will cover a lot of territory, in less time, and encourage others to check out different parts of the Bible. For Catholics like LuAnn, who have not been taught the Bible, perhaps they can just open it up randomly, and read where their finger falls. Sometimes this is the best way to discover the word.

    One passage that means a lot to me is in Matthew

    "Happiness is multiplied when it is divided and shared with others." (God knew all about math problems, I guess LOL)

    My great grandmother gave me a beautiful white Bible as a wedding gift with this verse written on a card. I will pass this card on with the Bible someday. And the verse also seems appropriate to me for this thread.

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  • ebann
    ebann Member Posts: 3,026
    edited November 2008

    vivre: My favorite Bible Passage is: Jeremiah 29:11 For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

    I have always loved this passage for it gives me the reassurance that God knows what is happening and knows what is best for me. Whether he chooses to keep me here on this earth which I am so blessed for each day I have. If he chooses to take me I am willing to go and be blessed by being with our Lord. Gives me hope for whatever is going to happen. God is so good.

    In God's Grace; Elizabeth

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  • moodyk13
    moodyk13 Member Posts: 1,180
    edited November 2008

    Vivre and ebann- both of your scriptures are so appropriate for what we bc people need to remember!  thank you so much for sharing them.

    vivre thank you for your idea.  i had been trying to decide what people would get the most out of and have been unsure if go by "topic" or as you say "passages of interest"  and i think BOTH would be good.

    So here is what I propose:  we continue our study on women of the bible, but just one day a week.  if we were meeting in person, it would only be for like 1 - 2 hours a week, so this type of indepth study can certainly be beneficial to one day.

    Then all the rest of the days, everyone post bible questions or explanations or passages and how that passage has touched their lives.  i do want to continue with the study we started because the actions of Sarah, Hagar, Lot's wife and 2 daughters, Rebekah-Isaac's wife, Rachel-Jacob's wife, Jochebed-Moses mother, Michal-David's first wife, Bathsheba- David's 2nd wife, and Tamar-David's daughter who marries Judah.  These women and their actions shaped and molded what was to come and an contribute to when Jesus comes back to claim us, His children!

    It is so fascinating how their specific actions, mostly "coniving" , had to happen to fulfill God's plan to bring Jesus to save us.

    So please everyone "post away" your questions, your passages, your knowledge and certainly dont wait on me.  I am not the one in "control" of this thread.  I prayed before I even started it, for my total submission to God's will and His wisdom, and for my words to be His words and basically to keep me out of it as I no doubt would screw it up!  And when it comes to learning His word, no post is wrong!Laughing

    I am excited to hear from everyone! 

    P.s.  Catholics do use the bible, theirs just have 46 books in the Old Testament rather than 39 they are called the "books of the Apocrypha" and the "Latin Vulgate" (I think this is what they are called).  LuAnnH is this correct, if not, PLEASE correct me!

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited November 2008

    Back in Bible times, names meant something.

    Here's from Wikipedia:  God changed their names from Abram and Sarai to Abraham and Sarah to help them fulfill their new destiny as progenitors of the future nation of Israel.  In Hebrew, the name Avram means "exalted father" or "father of Aram" (Aram is the country where Abram was born).  Sarai means "my woman of high rank", referring to her relationship with her husband.  Now their names would be Abraham, meaning "father of many" or "father of multitudes," and Sara would mean "woman of high rank" or "princess".

    ======

    See after being obediant to God and fathering Isaac (whose name later changes to Israel) they no longer belong just to themselves or their small part of the world, they belong to the world ... Abraham becomes the father of Ishmael (the Arab nations) and Isaac (the Semitic tribes).  Both Islam and Judaism claim Abraham as their father.

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  • LuAnnH
    LuAnnH Member Posts: 8,847
    edited November 2008

    I went to the table of contents and counted, 46 books is correct.  Well I like the idea of a certain day to give me time to finish reading the rest of the chapters on sarah.  With disucussion I may draw more out of them because you get lost in all of this person gave it to this son and that son did.  What I didn't understand was one part I was reading.  Now forgive me because it was awhile ago when I read this and don't remember names.  But the father was blind and was giving his blessing to one of his sons that deserved it and another son snuck in his place and stole it.  Now do I need to go further to see this young man get his due?

    As far as just opening and reading, that is what my son does in Iraq.  It's pretty much what the chaplin taught him to do.  There is one passage he would quote to me about the lord is his saviour and will protect him and for the life of me I can't remember what that one was.  Anyone got a clue?

    Moody, when would you like to try and do these discussions?  We could always try to grab the unused chatroom for it.

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited November 2008

    Oh and I remember God changed their names BEFORE he fullfilled his promise to them to bear a son.  Can you imagine changing your name to Abraham, father of MULTITUDES, when you are childless?  Imagine the laughter they endured behind their backs. 

    ----------

    Actually, because men had more than one wife and laws of affinity, Sarah could be referred to as the sister of Abraham, it was not a lie.  She was the daughter of Abrahams brother which would technically make her a niece, but laws of affinity would allow for her to be called his sister.   Abraham and Haran had the same father, different mothers.

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  • moodyk13
    moodyk13 Member Posts: 1,180
    edited November 2008

    Roctobermom excellent info thanks! (oops- it is Jacob whom God renames Israel and he is the father of the 12 tribes Gen 32:28 "And He said, 'Your name shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel; for you have struggled with God and with men, and have prevailed.'") But hey, I used to get them confused to, it's all good!

    And to expand on the "arab" and "semitic" tribes- you can trace the actual beginning to Noah's 3 sons.  Long story so here is it all summed up:

    "Japheth"- Noah's oldest.  Japheth means "fair" and he is the beginning of the Gentile nations (me)  His families migrated to Europe, West Asia, and on up into Russia. Gen 10

    "Shem"- Noah's 2nd boy.  Shem means "dark" and he is the beginning of the semitic "race": asians, Jewish/Hebrew; "middle east" people. Gen 10

    "Ham" - The baby.  Ham means "black" and he is the beginning of the hamitic "race".  They migrated to Egypt and rest of Africa, Asia Minor, Arabian pennisula.  The Islam people descend from him and as we will see as we continue to study Sarah and Hagar, Ishmael ends up in Egypt with his "very distant uncle" Ham- of course as there were 897 years between Noah and Abraham.  It still amazes me how it all ties together!  Laughing 

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  • moodyk13
    moodyk13 Member Posts: 1,180
    edited November 2008

    LuAnnH  it is Isaac who loses his sight and his wife Rebekah helps Jacob still Esau's birthright.  It sounds mean but it had to happen as we will learn for God is fulfilling His promise of Israel (a.k.a. Jacob) and our Messiah Jesus.

    I'm telling you, the women in the bible are so instrumental in God's plan.  He uses them so strategically it will blow your mind!

    I would love to do the chat room thing!  How and when?

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  • moodyk13
    moodyk13 Member Posts: 1,180
    edited November 2008

    Oh Roctobermom, now please dont get mad at the messenger (me) Sarah is Abrahams half sister.  re-read my previous post as it gives you the verses too.  They have the same father but not the same mother Gen 20:12. 

    I know this stuff get sooooo confusing.  I have to write it down and study it  and then still refer to it to keep it strait!

    But that is what this is all about, learning !!!!!

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  • moodyk13
    moodyk13 Member Posts: 1,180
    edited November 2008

    LuAnnH  could the scripture your son loves be Psalm 23?  Here is an excerpt: 23:1 & 4 "The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want." ....... "Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me."

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  • moodyk13
    moodyk13 Member Posts: 1,180
    edited November 2008
    we could start a chat tonight in if anyone wants to.  Anyone gonna be around tonight and would you like to chat about Sarah, etc?  If so what time do people like?  im thinking around 8 pm or so cause we gotta go buy a stupid washing machine!  YellMoney mouth
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  • pinkpig
    pinkpig Member Posts: 228
    edited November 2008

    Hi, just read all the posts.  The best approach to a group with many different backgrounds, which in my opinion is the best kind of group, is to agree to disagree.  I heartily agree with the person that said that.  This is an interesting concept to study  the bible via the board.  My two cents is focusing on a single subject at a time makes sense and the women of the bible are awesome. 

     I love that Sarah laughed at the thought of having a baby at 90, it's such a human thing to do.  I often think that people that haven't studied or read the bible a lot think all the players in the bible are perfect or saintly, but when you start studying them they are very human and are not the people humans would pick to do the job.  I also love that God went ahead and used Sarah and Abraham as promised, even after they were quite disobedient.  Maybe that's getting ahead in the story.  Sarah wasn't some perfect saint she laughed at God and then she lied about it.  It's so something I would do.  God's reply, "Is anything too hard for the Lord?  At the appointed time..... is such an encouragement to me.  Living with bc can be a trying experience so being reminded that nothing is too hard for God, including giving a child to a 90 year old woman is encouraging.  It also makes me smile at God's plan.  Why wouldn't he give Sarah a child when she was young and it made sense?  Why wait so long? 

     On another note, I don't know how to get on the chat thing, tried once and didn't know how to reply.  Perhaps I will try again.  Gay

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited November 2008

    Moody, I just read that in Wikipedia, I don't have my bible at work ... it said she was the daughter of Haran ... and that Haran was Abraham's 1/2 brother????   I think it said Haran, I can 't remember.

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  • moodyk13
    moodyk13 Member Posts: 1,180
    edited November 2008
    Hey pink to get into chat room go to the very very top of this page and 2nd from right end is link to chat rooms.  click that- (you need to have Java enabled if you dont already)  then you will have to log in  using the same id and pw you use to access here.  then you will see 2 rooms listed.  we can use the "staying connected" as no one seems to ever be in there so you click on that room and on the bottom right hand of that window is a tab that says "enter room".  then your in the room and in the text box at the bottom of the window is where you type.  hope this makes sense.
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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited November 2008

    Hah! I just went to another sight .. Wikipedia is WRONG!! 

    Terah was the father of Sarah ... as well as Abraham.  I feel so bad .. I will have to have my own bible next to me and my books before commenting next!!!  LOL

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  • moodyk13
    moodyk13 Member Posts: 1,180
    edited November 2008

    I am going to continue the history of Sarah and Hagar as I have explained how important their roles were.  Then I am going to back up to Lot and his wif and daughters.  That story is also a shocker and also sets up events in the future.  Then Milcah and Rebekah and how they tie in together.  Then spend time on Rebekah as her role is even bigger than Sarah's in setting up our future! 

    I hope everyone finds this as interesting as I do!

    But PLEASE if anyone has questions about other stuff PLEASE ask it and together we can all find the answers!  We can certainly handle history and questions!

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  • moodyk13
    moodyk13 Member Posts: 1,180
    edited November 2008

    Rocktobermom Nahor is Abrahams brother and Nahor is the one who married his niece.  Abraham other brother is Haran but he died.  Haran had 2 children Lot and Milcah.  Milcah married Nahor.  SOOOO confusing......LOL  take a look Gen 11:27 - 30 

    I hope you and pink will be in the chat room at 8:00 tonightLaughing

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  • moodyk13
    moodyk13 Member Posts: 1,180
    edited November 2008

    There is a website that you can download the bible for free.  I have it on my laptop and use it alot.  and you can have diff translation modules added- all for free!

    http://www.onlinebible.net/downloads.html

    check it out!

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  • EWB
    EWB Member Posts: 2,927
    edited November 2008

    I'm not sure how I feel about a chat room to do this.  If any one can't make it will they miss all?  If on the thread it always possible to catch up and still feel part of the conversation and get information.  Just my thought.

    Elaine.

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  • PinkyLee
    PinkyLee Member Posts: 648
    edited November 2008

    I don't know how to do the chat room thing, can someone give me guidance?

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  • moodyk13
    moodyk13 Member Posts: 1,180
    edited November 2008
    Well of course no one misses anything!  Laughing  I got your back!  But no worries as I was the only one there.  It was a suggestion from LuAnn, and a good one, but a difficult one to organize.  But if we did get one organized, I would save a copy of the conversation and post it here so no one gets behind.
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  • LuAnnH
    LuAnnH Member Posts: 8,847
    edited November 2008

    I found it I think, Psalms 91 Security Under God's Protection

    You who dwell in the shelter of the Most High, who abide in the shadow of the Almighty, say to the Lord, "My refuge and fortress, my God in whom I trust."  God will rescue you from the fowler's snare, from the destroying plague, will shelter you with pinions, spread wings that you may take refuge; God's faithfulness is a protecting shield.  You shall not fear the terror of the night nor the arrow that flies by day, nor the pestilence that roams in darkness, nor the plague that ravages at noon.  Though a thousand fall at your side, ten thousand at your right hand, near you it shall not come.  You need simply watch; the punishment of the wicked you will see.  You have the Lord for your refuge; you have made the Most High your stronghold.  No evil shall befall you, no affliction come near your tent.  For God commands the angels to guard you in all your ways.  With their hands they shall support you, lest you strike your foot against a stone.  You shall tread upon the asp and the viper, trample the lion and dragon.  Whoever clings to me I will deliver; whoever knows my name I will set on high.  All who call upon me I will answer; I will be with them in distress.  I will deliver them and give them honor.  With length of days I will satisfy them and show them my saving power.

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited November 2008
    Abraham's siblings

    Abraham had a half-sister, Sarah, whose father was Terah. She died in Hebron in Canaan. Abraham also had two brothers, Nahor and Haran.

    • Haran

      Haran had a son, Lot, and two daughters, Milcah and Iscah.

      • Lot was close to Abraham, and they travelled together in the beginning of Abraham's sojourn in the promised land. Lot had two daughters, and later two sons, Moab and Ben-Ammi, by his two daughters.
      • Milcah married her uncle Nahor.

      Haran died in Ur before Abraham had even left permanently. Haran may have been visiting from the city of Haran, which may have been named after him.

    • Nahor

      Nahor married his niece, Milcah. Together, they had eight sons: Uz, Buz, Kemuel, Kesed, Hazo, Pildash, Jidlaph and Bethuel.

      • Kemuel was the father of Aram.
      • Bethuel was the father of Rebekah, who later married her relative, Isaac. Rebekah's brother was named Laban.

      Nahor also took a concubine, Reumah, who bore him four sons: Tebah, Gaham, Tahash and Maacah.

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  • moodyk13
    moodyk13 Member Posts: 1,180
    edited November 2008

    By George I think she's got it!  Good post Rocktobermom! 

    LuAnnH that is a beautiful Psalm and fits your son's situation so well!  Thank you for sharing it! 

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  • moodyk13
    moodyk13 Member Posts: 1,180
    edited November 2008

    Here is the conclusion to Sarah:

    Sarah Part III

    Sarah indeed gives birth to Isaac and as it seems natural for her, she cracks up about this too!  I can just see her sitting there shaking her head laughing in amazement at what God has done in her life

    Gen 21:6 "Sarah said, "God has brought me laughter, and everyone who hears about this will laugh with me."

    Guess what!  The name Isaac means "God is laughing now!"    I know God has a sense of humor.  He LOVES playing jokes on me!!!!

    Now I will quickly give history of Hagar and continue the story.

    Hagar: 

    Genesis chapter 16 we are introduced to Hagar.  She is Sarah's maid and she is an Egyptian (this is muy importante).  Sarah at this point is bearen and so she wants Hagar to be her surrogate.  She "gives" Hagar to Abraham to be his 2nd wife and have his child.  Of course Hagar conceives and of course Sarah gets jealous!  They are women just like we are...well maybe not like us as I would never "give" my hubby a 2nd wife.....LOL  but they do get jealous!

    Gen 16:5 "So Sarai complained to Abram, "I'm being treated unfairly! And it's your fault! I know that I gave my slave to you, but now that she's pregnant, she's being disrespectful to me. May the LORD decide who is right--you or me."

    Gen 16:6 "Abram answered Sarai, "Here, she's your slave. Do what you like with her." Then Sarai mistreated Hagar so much that she ran away."

    But the Angel of the Lord goes to her and gives her explicit instructions:

    Go back to Sarah, submit to her.  You are having a son and you gonna name him Ishmael which means "God hears".  But he is gonna be a "wild man and his hand shall be against every man and every man's hand shall be against him." Gen 16:12

    Ishmael, God tells Abraham, will be the "father"  of 12 princes and will make him a great nation.  This is the official "birth" of the Arab nations and will later birth the "Islam" religion.  The bible doesn't actually say this, this comes from theologians who studied other historical documents and writings and you will see how the bible backs this up.

    So Isaac is born and when he is weaned -probably about age 3 cuz back in those days, they had to nurse a long time.  Ishmael was 4 when Isaac was born so this would put Ishmael about 7 yrs old.

    Anyway, when Isaac was weaned Abraham held a celebration.  Well at this celebration, Sarah sees Ishmael making fun of Isaac and this ticked her off.  She goes to Abraham and tells him to kick both Hagar and Ishmael out on their butts.

    Of course Abraham doesn't want to do this cuz Ishmael is his kid but God knows Hagar and Ishmael MUST get out of their home and God doesn't let anyone or anything interfere with His plan, so He tells Abraham: "But God said to Abraham, "Don't be upset about the boy and your slave. Listen to what Sarah says because through Isaac your descendants will carry on your name.  Besides, I will make the slave's son into a nation also, because he is your child." Gen 21:12 - 13

    Now please read Gen 21: 14 - 21  and make a note somewhere about what verse 20 tells you about Ishmael.  This will later open up a great discussion.  I have an opinion about it and want to know what others think!

    Back to Sarah to "finish her up"

    Next we come to the account of Abraham being tested by God with Isaac.  I wonder if Abraham told Sarah what God had commanded him to do.  If he did, I wonder what her response was?   I am guessing he didn't tell her, but I don't know.  If anyone has light to shed, please do so.

    Sarah dies when Isaac is only 37 years old when Sarah dies.  Abraham buries her in a cave in Machpelah in the land of Canaan.  This same cave will be the burial spot for more of Abrahams family:  everyone except Rachel- Jacobs wife.  Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Rebekah, Jacob and Leah were all buried in the cave (Genesis.49:31).

    Herod the Great built a large rectangular enclosure over the caves, the only fully surviving Herodian structure. Herod's building, with 6-foot-thick stone walls made from stones that were at least 3 feet tall and sometimes reach a length of 24 feet, did not have a roof. Archaeologists are not certain where the original entrance to the enclosure was located, or even if there was one

    Hebron Cave of Machpelah, Tomb of Patriarchs

    if you want you can read more here:  http://www.bibleplaces.com/hebron.htm

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