Bible Study for the Biblically Challenged Anyone?

LuAnnH

I'm actually going to be heading off to PA for a couple of days to visit my brother but will take my bible with me and do a little reading and see it I can follow this a little better.  What sounds confusing is when you all place Iraq and Iran as places of some of these happenings.  Makes it kind of odd of they are the chosen holy places yet muslim and other religions are the major religions of the area then why are we practicing a different religion?

moodyk13

LuAnnH, you really DONT sleep do you - LOL- you poor thing.  But I guess if you can't sleep, spending time in God's word is a great substitute.

Yep, inbredding is exactly what we would call this--  I am going to follow this with a post about why they married, literally, in the family.  It will help better understand.

moodyk13

You ar exaclty right about Irag, Iran and Muslims.  The fact that christianity has survived and thrived, on one hand is remarkable, but on the other hand, nothing is too big for God.  He promises that eveyone will have had a chance to receive Him first.  What will even give you more "goose pimples" is that all of this is covered in the New Testament. 

The foundation of Muslims and their determination to destroy Israel is being laid now in the Old Testament.  It actually begins with Ham, Noah's youngest son and builds through Ishmael continuing to strengthen with Esau an so on.  I can start a seperated thread on Noah and his whole story if anyone wants me to. I can call it "Bible study of Noah".  So if anyone is interested, let me know.

LuAnnH, you have encouraged me soooo much.  Just when I am wondering what I am doing, you remind me with your interest in this study.  You encourage me to "forge ahead" and not let anything slow this down.  Thank you so much.  Love ya!

EWB

Having the chart really helps me keep people straight, especislly since there are name changes and more that  one person per name.  I  have trouble trying to over lay  the old territories with modern day countries---thats a whole other study for me!.

Family stopping by for visit.  more later 

moodyk13

AWESOME, it does get confusing, and the deeper we get, is more challenged as more people have the same name.  But I promise we will go as slow as needed to keep it all straight.  thanks for hanging in there!

moodyk13

Intermarriages in the Bible:

Well, by todays standards it's "gross" to think about marrying someone within your own family - at least there is no one in MY family I would want to marry- LOL  But in the beginning of times and up until Leviticus (around 1445 B.C.) people married within their own families.  I  too was intrigued about this some time ago and went looking for answers.  Here is what I found from various theologians. They all seem to concur, so I have no reason to doubt them. (Unless a better explanation comes along that it!)

Since Adam and Eve were the first (and only) human beings, their children would have no other choice than to intermarry. God did not forbid inter-family marriage until much later when there was enough people that intermarriage was not necessary.  This isn't "forbidden" until Leviticus 18:6 - 18.

The human genetic code has become increasingly "polluted" over the centuries as genetic defects are multiplied, amplified, and passed down from generation to generation. Adam and Eve did not have any genetic defects, so that enabled them and the first few generations of their descendants to have a far greater quality of health than we do now. Adam and Eve's children had few, if any, genetic defects. As a result, it was safe for them to intermarry.

It may seem strange or even disgusting to think of Cain's wife being his sister. In the beginning, since God started with one man and one woman, the second generation would have no choice but to intermarry amongst themselves.  Until then marriages of close family members were regarded as a sign of rank.  The marriages of the family of Terah were very close. 

Anonymous

Adam and Eve did not have any genetic defects, so that enabled them and the first few generations of their descendants to have a far greater quality of health than we do now. Adam and Eve's children had few, if any, genetic defects.

This is also the explanation as to why they lived such long lives.  To me, it was explained that before Adam's fall, they were perfect, like fans plugged into the wall, they would have kept on going and going ... God told Adam if he ate from that tree, he would die in that day.  Death was a punishment not something that was going to happen inevitably. When he sinned, he unplugged himself from his life-source.  Like a fan at high speed, suddenly unpluggled, the blades slow to a stop, it took just under a day (1000 years) for his life to stop.

Because they were genetically perfect but with death now in the code, their offspring would still live long long lives and intermarriage was ok since like Moody said, their genetic code was not polluted with disease yet still had the amazing capabilities to produce offspring of all races.

moodyk13

STUDY #2   SARAH- CONTINUED

Genesis 16:1-6

Sarah had not been able to get pregnant so she goes to Abraham and asks him to "go in unto"  her maid, Hagar, so that they could have "children by her."

Gen 16:2 "And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai"  (LOL what man wouldn't!)

16:4 "And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived: and when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress was despised in her eyes."

The footnotes in my bible explain this verse saying using a surrogate mother was customary for this culture when the wife couldn't conceive. 

I think of that saying "be careful what you ask for, you might get it".  Sarah got what she asked for, but then jealousy took over.

Then it seems to me that Sarah puts the blame on Abraham for doing it and says Hagar is jealous of her.  Tell me what you get out of this: 16:5 "And Sarai said unto Abram, My wrong be upon thee: I have given my maid into thy bosom; and when she saw that she had conceived, I was despised in her eyes: the LORD judge between me and thee."

To make Sarah feel better, and probably to save his marriage, Abraham gives Sarah permission to do whatever she wanted to do to Hagar.

Gen 16:6  "But Abram said unto Sarai, Behold, your maid is in your hand; do to her as you please. And when Sarai dealt harshly with her, she fled from her presence."

1.  What do you think the conversation was like between Sarah and Abraham when Sarah asked him to get Hagar pregnant?

2.  Do you think Hagar "bragged" or "flaunted" her pregnancy, perhaps causing Sarah to become jealous?

3.  What do you think "harshly" implies? 

moodyk13

Speaking of the "genetics" issue and the intermarriages that were common then, Genesis 12:1 God tells Abraham to get away from his family.  Perhaps this was God's way of ending His approval of intermarrying??  What do ya'll think?  Why do you think God wanted Abraham to leave his extended family behind?  People back then always traveled in "family packs" so to speak....

LuAnnH

I am out of town visiting my brother, will look through those verses tomorrow sometime if I get the chance and see what questions I can derive  LOL  I'll try to make them at reasonable hours  LOL  Although I have to say that family tree thing  helped alot!  Talking about Iran and Iraq and these others countries and the religions makes it more interesting to want to read now.  Normally you pick up the bible and it is alot of this persons parents were this and that happened but putting into a real place into todays world makes it a bit of a difference.

moodyk13

PRAYER REQUESTS:

I would like to take prayer requests and post them maybe once a week. Prayer is soooo powerful and I know first hand it has worked for me and I am sure others reading can say it has worked for them.

1 Peter 3:12  "For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous, and His ears are open to their prayers"

So if there is something or someone that you would like to have put on this post, please PM me.  If you want to be "anonymous" then indicate that in your request.  If you want me to pray for something (and I promise I do) but dont want it on the post, indicate that also.

James 5: 13 "Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms."

James 5:15-16 "And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much."

May God bless each of you and if you or your loved ones are traveling this weekend, I earnestly pray for God's veil of protection over all.

Karen

moodyk13

LuAnnH  I don't think it is a "coincidence" that ibcspouse posted that map.  I believe with my whole heart that was a "God thing".  It's the only post by ibcspouse and it has you wanting to know more. 

AND it is God's way of letting me know that this is His thread, not mine.  I am merely His transcriptionist.

Anonymous

Moody, regarding the command to leave Ur ... it was a command to leave the family that would not travel with him, a command to leave a pagan city, a command to leave the weath and false security/protection the city offered.  In addition, not all of Abraham's family worshipped the true God. Laws regarding marriage had not been given to the nations, which Abraham was considered: a man of the nations.  It was not until he called out a special people out of the nations, for a special purpose, did he give the Law covenant which contained laws regarding marriage and inter-marriage.  God is specific in his requirements, he doesn't hide truth and he will lead people to the truth if they want it.

-----

Correction, I should say a man from the nations ... he was not like them, or "of" them which is why God could see that Abram would listen and eventually came to be called a friend of God.

moodyk13

In addition to everything Rock states, I also think God was testing Abraham's faith. 

moodyk13

Dont forget to look at STUDY # 2 6 messages above  ▲

Anonymous

1.  What do you think the conversation was like between Sarah and Abraham when Sarah asked him to get Hagar pregnant?

2.  Do you think Hagar "bragged" or "flaunted" her pregnancy, perhaps causing Sarah to become jealous?

3.  What do you think "harshly" implies?

1... Oh I can just imagine telling her to go sleep with him the first time and even Hagar being shy about it.  But who gets pregnant the first time????  You can imagine that eventually, Hagar and Abraham became comfortable with their routine and possibly enjoying it.  At first Sarah probaly helped groom her as to what Abraham preferred and would help her get ready for bed.  At the end, probably hearing the laughter and noise, Sarah got to feel put out and old. 

2. I am sure Hagar would show off her belly to Sarah and even Abraham so that he might love her more than Sarah.  How could he not have affection for her?  It was his child, Sarah's slave girl, a fulfillment of God's promise, a baby!!  How this child came to be bitter with his mother was sad but Hagar flaunted her pregnant body.

3. Harshly has been interpreted as  "afflicted" and "humiliated" .... you can guess that because of Hagar's attitude that her pregnancy did not go as planned as a life laying in luxury!  I am sure she was well fed but probably no longer a favored servant.  Instead of calling her by name maybe Sarah called her "slave girl" or "Hey you" or whatever derogatory name they would have called people. 

Very sad how it turned out because they didn't have patience and rely on God to work out his Word and promise.

LuAnnH

Moody and rock you too are on a rool.  I got so sidetracked and exhauseted with family that reading those frew chapters and catching up here is on my agenda tomorrow.  I tell you what I was never one to be real excited about religion or the bible but find myself attracted to this thread and it is drawing me in to read further and deeper.  Really understanding what I am reading and not just glancing at thd words saying i read it.  Thanks for starting this, just remember us slow peple need the time to keep the pace with out cancer ives  LOL

moodyk13

LaAnnH--I am SO EXCITED that you are excited, that I have sloowwwed way down so that you wont get overwhelmed and give up.  I will wait til tomorrow to post study #3.

If anyone wants study#3 today, please PM me and I will PM it to you.

P.S. Rock did such a thorough job answering the questions I had, that I have nothing to add!

EWB

Thanks for slowing down. Takes me time to read and digest--between failing eyesight and concentration/retention issues.

moodyk13

EWB- My pleasure.  Like I said earlier, it may take me a bit to get into a rythmn that is satisfactory to most.  I appreciated everyone's patience and willingness to "hang in there".  So did you see the 2 study posts then?  they are on page 4 & 5.  as soon as you have had time to absorb everything, I would love to know your thoughts on them!

God Bless!

Anonymous

Do you think Abram told Sarah about his message from God?

Would we be obedient to God, pick up our family, and move as Abram did?

What do you think was going through her mind when she had to leave Abram and go to Pharoah?

1.  Do I think he told her?  Yes... and I am sure that she was quite puzzled that their names would be changed as to their new purpose .. "Father of a multitude?" and yet they were childless? She would no longer be Sarai, "my princess"  ... but Sara "princess" ...  We have seen that Sarah was not afraid of her husband, she was submissive but didn't cower in front of him, she was not a mouse.  I think her ability to be this way made her a confidant of Abram, he could tell her anything, she was also his "friend" 

2. Would we be obediant? I think we have all shown that we would do it and other times we wouldn't ... We see the results when we don't follow the lead of holy spirit. We see what happens when we do listen to God's word.  When you read the passage, though, an interesting thing takes place:  Terah goes with Abram and his family.  Terah was not a worshipper of the true God!!!  He worshipped false gods. Yet, he went along, he, too, was submissive to God's Will and supported the efforts of God's true worshippers. It would not have been easy for Terah to leave the city of Ur and dwell in tents, packing up all the time.  Living with the animals.  Before, they lived in the city, the animals had their place.  What do you pack up after a lifetime in a city??

And today?  How many times have we seen a wife or husband who is not a christian, yet is there at a gathering serving food or allowing his wife to donate sizeable funds? How many times do you see an unbelieving mate drive the family to church? Sitting there in church yet not having the faith? I have seen women with unbelieving mates yet you'd never know it!!  This one little old man attends every single Sunday, more than a lot of baptized people!  Sometimes, non-believers are more faithful in deed than the faithful!!!  

I don't know if Terah ever "converted" but alot of unbelievers eventually come around due to the good conduct of their mates or others. I have seen men late in years get baptized with their wives crying, tales of their husbands who belittled their faith now gone to rest because their husbands now believe.  These mates were eventually won over by kindness and love shown by not just their mates and family but by the whole congregation.  So, just because someone has an unbelieving mate, remember to be kind .. talk about baseball, talk about the weather ... say hello.  No need to pressure: make them feel good they came today.

3. What was in her mind?  LOL ...  Probably not being too submissive with her thoughts!!  "That fool Abraham sending me here!!!"  Maybe even a little bit of, "Well at least I get to sleep on a real bed with real walls this week!"  

Anonymous

Moody, I really can't even pretend to think how mad I would be to be sent to Pharoah!!  Maybe she might have even been scared, scared for both of them since she knew that Abraham had not told the whole truth about their relationship!

moodyk13

I think they probably talked in depth about it before they got close to Egypt.  Perhaps one of thier "slaves" reminded them of the danger because of her beauty, who knows.  But I think they prayed about it and I think since they had enough faith in God to pick up and move, that they knew God would protect them through this also.

I really believe Sarah was scared to death of being Pharoahs "sex girl"  I also believe that she was "banking" on SOMEONE intervening.  Although-------she DID doubt later when God told her she would have a baby.  IDK- maybe it was easier to believe God would get her out of Pharoah's "clutches" than it was for her to believe she could have a baby at 90!

Interesting stuff though--

I love your perspective on all this, it helps me sort through and make it more real.

Anonymous

Moody, I am sure they prayed about it ... thank you for pointing that out.

My daughter and I are working on prayer right now... we got lazy and started in on routines ... we are working on relying on Him for everything right now ... even personality issues at school... will tell you later ... $$$ ... but it's really cute.

moodyk13

I LOVE it Rock!!!  Thanks

but on a more somber note:

We had a youth minister here in our area pick up a couple on the side of the road sunday night on his way home from church.  He called his wife to tell her he was taking them to this little town called Cleveland- its about 30 mi north.  he never came home.

police found his body this am- he had been murdered!!!!!!  i am freaking out!  he was only 44 yrs old, had 3 children oldest is 17!  terrible- being a good samaritan cost him his life!

moodyk13

Luann this is for you  this family tree is very interesting:

and here is Noah to Abraham:

pretty cool huh!

EWB

How sad to hear about the youth minister,  so hard to know what is the right thing to do some times. I hold in my prayers the family of the minister as well as all those who struggle with knowing what to do---protecting self vs helping others.  What  a  sad choice to make.

faithandfifty

adding additional prayers for the youth minister's family -- who are no doubt in a total sense of shock.

our world is in such dire need of good people, doing good things -- may we be cautious in our reaching out, but may we continue to reach out.

i will pray that healing can come from such a horrific situation, that his children may be his legacy and that they may rise above this portion of the story..... to shine His light to others

moodyk13

Okay, here is Study #3 - Sarah Continued:

STUDY #3

  

God changes Abram's name to Abraham 17:5 and Sarai to Sarah 17:15 and in God's covenant with Abraham says He will "bless" her also:  17:16 "And I will bless her, and also give you a son by her; Then, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of peoples shall be from her."

Sarah will give birth to Isaac when she is 90 years old!  17:17 "Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? And shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear"?

Then possibly the most important sentence in the whole Old Testament comes in verse 17:19 "And God said, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son indeed; and you shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his descendants after him."

Gen 17:21 - 22 "But My covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah shall bear to you at this set time in the next year.  Then He finished talking with him, and God went up from Abraham."

My footnotes say "The promise was clear.  The father and mother were named, the child was named and the time was named"  And God holds true to His word and He fulfilled His promise!

Sarah has a sense of humor. 

1.  Can you imagine being told your gonna have sex and a baby at 90!

2.  Since they lived to be way over 100 years old, do you think they looked like people look today at 90? LOL

The thing that gives me the most to ponder is "God went up from Abraham." 

3.  Do you think this is a literal statement?  I do. 

4.  Can you imagine standing face to face with God?

moodyk13

If you guys get a chance please go to this thread: http://community.breastcancer.org/38/topic/697281?page=1  Read Norms post (with tissues) and post a thought/prayer for him.  Tomorrow is the anniversary of his wife and 4 childrens death.  She was a bc survivor.  His post tells you everything you need to know. 

I have to go blow my nose now.