Positive Obama thread

Amy it was Anneshirley that said I hated science which I thought was so funny...........many on the left believe that all on the right defy science such as believing in creation........not all on the right think science is evil...........so yes it was just humor.............Iza I do understand that many believe that conception is not life or not sustain life..........but then when does a group of human cells become life?..........at quickening liked they used to believe in the old days.........at 40 days past conception?............when a mother first feels the baby move?.............babies are being born earlier and earlier and living.........so the questions is when does the soul enter the body?.........my daughter and I were just discussing this (she is a 20 year old liberal) and she said when the baby has cognitive development........but then there are babies that are born that are alive that have no cognitive activity.......that doesn't mean that they don't have life............so again I was just addressing Sandy because her post confused me..............I always thought that pro lifers believed that life began at conception (cell division)..........and believe me Iza I know that my belief is in the minority............I am not saying who is right or who is wrong just trying to be consistent............Shokk

Unfortunately abortion will not become illegal tomorrow nor I do not believe it will ever become illegal again..........the best I personally could hope for is that it be left up to individual states as far as they would chose to have abortion legal or not........hypothetically what punishment would be appropriate........the cost of human life..........interesting......let's see first trimester a misdemeanor, second trimester man slaughter, late term or baby is born alive even after an attempted abortion then murder.............sorry djd I really don't mean to be a bitch and to be honest I'm not sure how to answer your question because like I said before I doubt that it will ever be illegal again even if we had a Republican president and a Republican congress and a Republican majority Supreme Court...........with that said considering there were over 1,000,000 legal abortions last year I can't help but wonder which one of those children would have been born and would someday find the cure for cancer..........now granted I'm sure there would also be some mass murders as well but I still wonder............of course we will never know.........Shokk

Shokk said, "so the questions is when does the soul enter the body?........."

There we go again. The soul is part of your beliefs. Thousands, probably millions of Americans do not believe in a soul. Bringing the soul into the matter is imposing religious beliefs upon your fellow citizens.

You also said, "the cost of human life..........interesting......let's see first trimester a misdemeanor, second trimester man slaughter, late term or baby is born alive even after an attempted abortion then murder............." Now you are contradicting yourself again, big time. According to your own stated beliefs, if life begins at conception, then the life of an embryo that is five minutes old should be just as valuable as that of the president of the United States, let alone that of a second-trimester fetus.

Yes Iza you are correct..........like I said to djd I was being sarcastic and a bit of a bitch because for the gals that know me know that I use sarcasm to make my points.............and like I have said to Amy when we had this discussion last week I am a true pro lifer.........I believe human life begins at conception...........which means that not only do I have issues with abortion but also have issues with certain types of contraception, using embryos for stem cell research, incest, rape and all the other issues that being a pro lifer we must defend..............I believe the child should be protected at all cost even the mother's..............Shokk

Shokk, I was just wondering--do you feel the same way about abortions in relation to incest & rape? Who is being punished in those types of pregnancies? Why should a child or young teen let's say, be forced to carry to term a baby that she did not give consent to be in her body?

And, would we be in the middle of a discussion like this IF males were the ones to gestate the babies? I believe not! jmo 

And Grace how ever the conception takes place I personally believe that the child should not be the one that is punished.........he or she is the most innocent of all parties involved..........Shokk

Okay - the abortion debate is clearly an issue we will not all agree on, but on a lighter note - for those of you, like me,  who are loving the Rachel Maddow show, WTF is it with all those random beeps in the background??  I thought I was imagining things last night, but I realize tonight that it's definitely coming from the set of her show.  Oy vey, talk about annoying!  (but not enough to make me change the channel :-) )

Justanna, just in case you were finding *my* post frightening, be assured I never stated that an abortion is in any way comparable to an assassination, morally or legally speaking. On the contrary, I am inequivocally pro-choice and I was merely pointing out the holes in Shokk's pro-life arguments. But sorry to have scared you! I have reread my post and realize that a quick, "diagonal" reading of it might give the wrong impression. For context, just look back at my own posts on the matter, just a few messages up.

Donna, I noticed the beeps too.  And sometimes the sound in the studio is strangely "echoey."  But good news . . . she beat Keith in the ratings her first week.  Nice to see a wicked smart woman doing so well.  It gives one hope . . . 

Go Anne, Obama Mama!  Just heard, from Rachel as a matter of fact, that Obama is doing quite well among women.  I think women are responding to his energy and optimism.  And the fact that he has some consistent ideas about the economy.  And let's face it, he looks mighty fine in a suit.

Speaking of suits and looks . . . have you noticed that Palin's got a new do?  They seem to be doing a subtle makeover on her.  Putting her into designer jackets and whatnot.  Are they hoping that by putting her into Italian suits, she'll look more worldly?  I thought her "down-hominess" was part of her charm. 

Amy no need to apologize............I did not take offense in the least...........I do enjoy our "discussions".............with that said Iza I personally believe that scientifically that it is not a matter of opinion as to when life begins any more then it is a matter of opinion about evolution.........I have a science degree and I certainly was taught that life begins at conception just as I was taught about evolution...........the left refuses to answer that one question.............because they know that if they say what they know to be true then abortion would be murder..............as far as the law for pro choice like I said yesterday Roe vs. Wade will never be reverse but I personally think that it should not be federal policy but should be voted on a state by state and if the majority in any particular state doesn't want it then for that state if could be ruled illegal............then if someone is living in a state where abortions are not preformed they could go elsewhere and still have a legal abortion...........one more thing before I go (I really didn't mean to hijack the Obama thread)........yesterday when I heard the sound bite from Michelle Obama about not voting for someone just because they are cute I really thought she was talking about her husband.........I thought she was implying to vote for his policies not how cute he is............ha.............ok Obama fans..........good luck...........Shokk

Need a little help here--when and on what channel is Rachel Maddow on? I'd like to check her out. thanks

Yeah, good imitation of ol' Keith.  He certainly has a style that invites parody.  I give him special props, though, for his "Palin lies" donation to the Alaska Special Olympics last night.  Brilliant gimmick.

Any thoughts about the upcoming debate?  I like that they're doing a sit-down discussion.  I think it will be more revealing if they each have to answer the same question in the same amount of time.  I'm sure there will be a lot of questions about the economy, taxes and regulation vs. de-regulation.  And health care.  I hope that Obama explains why trickle-down economics doesn't work, particularly in the current climate, and why rich people should pay more taxes.