Positive Obama thread

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  • LAphoenix
    LAphoenix Member Posts: 452
    edited August 2008

    Hillary was terrific.  I especially liked the part where she reminded her supporters that the election isn't about her, but about the Marine and the single mom and the specific others who asked for her help.  That really hit the nail on the head I thought.  The media, especially Faux News, is trying to make the conflict much bigger than it really is.  I've heard interviews with several Hillary delegates who say that the militant Hillary supporters are few and far between and that the vast majority of them are supporting Obama. 

    The Daily Show (yeah, they're reporting from Denver!) did a fun bit where they got a few of those Hillary fanatics together and took them to a child psychology center so they could learn to deal with their anger by sitting in naughty chairs and drawing pictures expressing their hostility toward Obama.  Stewart also had a great line about Michelle's speech and how she needed to establish her patriotism.  He said every election Democrats have to prove they love America.  Republicans love America, he said, they just hate half the people who live in it.     

    I heard that Gov. Schweitzer's speech was really good, but I didn't catch it.  I read Kucinich's fiery speech.  Did the networks broadcast it?  The coverage has been pretty lousy across the board.  What's going on with MSNBC?  All that train noise and wind and broken feed?  And all the talking heads seem really cranky (probably because of all the train noise and wind and broken feed).  I think the real drama is happening behind the cameras!  

    Can someone tell me what the beer heiress is doing in Georgia, the country?  Since when did she become a foreign policy expert?  Or an ambassador?  God, these people are opportunistic hypocrits!  Can you imagine the uproar we'd hear if Michelle did the same?     

  • Beesie
    Beesie Member Posts: 12,240
    edited August 2008

    Just so you know, Cindy McCain (aka the beer heiress) has been doing work with refugees in war zones for years.  It's not something that she's ever publicized before but obviously now it gets press because her husband is running for the presidency.  She has always done this with her own funds.  So there is nothing opportunistic about it - it what she does and has done for years.  In fact she met and adopted her daughter while on a similar mission years ago.

  • LAphoenix
    LAphoenix Member Posts: 452
    edited August 2008

    Beesie, thanks for your answer.  The timing of the trip was a bit suspicious, coming as it did on the day of Michelle's speech, but you're right, Cindy's a kind and generous person who deserves kudos for her good works.              

  • NoH8
    NoH8 Member Posts: 2,726
    edited August 2008

    LA, I wouldn't be so quick to jump to Cindy's defense, remember the agendas of some of the infrequent posters on this thread.

    Cindy McCain is one of the most annoying women I've ever seen on the political scene. Big deal that she spends a bit of hundreds of millions to do a bit of charity. That doesn't make her a nice person. I heard her speak about her "charity" in a very condescending way, about the children with these deformities as if they were inaminate deformed objects. I was offended at her attitude and hoped too many supporters look at how she speaks about what she does. She probably just used it as a tax write off, speaking of which, she gotten off on criminal behavior before, probably because of John although I have no proof of that. She stole drugs from that charity to feed her addiction, and got off by paying them back which was no skin off her teeth. She also owes back taxes on one of her many properties. I guess she can't count either.

    On a happier note, I think the roll call went well, it was very energizing and exciting. Hillary has done a very good job and I've regained a lot of the respect I lost for her due to her behavior in the primaries.

    I heard bill is limited to 10 minutes tonight (which will probably mean 20) and that he's worked with the Obama team on his speech. I hope he hits a grand slam. I'm dying to hear Biden's acceptence speech.

    I have a new theme-- Obama/Biden my time until 1/20/09.

  • LAphoenix
    LAphoenix Member Posts: 452
    edited August 2008

    I just heard part of Gov. Schweitzer's speech on the radio.  Apparently you have to watch C-SPAN to get full TV coverage of the convention.  He was filleting McCain on his energy votes (25 votes in the Senate against alternative energy bills), and over $1 million in contributions from oil and gas companies, among other things.  Of course, he gets even more from insurance companies, so we shouldn't expect too much in the way of reform where healthcare is concerned.  But that's the kind of specific attacks the Dems need.  Hopefully Biden and Bill will deliver them.

    Good news on the registration front . . . The Dems have registered over 400,000 new voters in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Florida, each.  Now we just have to get them to the polls!  They say door-to-door get-out-the-vote drives are the most effective means of getting voters to the polls, so hopefully there will be plenty of volunteers to do just that. 

    I'm glad that Obama's being very aggressive and quick in refuting the Ayers smear ad, which--surprise, surprise--is being funded by one of the Swift Boat creeps.  I haven't seen the ad (it's not running in CA, thank God) but I read the transcript.  Obama has already put out a counter-attack, and I think the campaign may even be threatening lawsuits.  Good for them!       

    Well, on to Day 3.   

  • Beesie
    Beesie Member Posts: 12,240
    edited August 2008

    Amy, I am in infrequent poster on this thread because you have asked me not to post.

    I have no agenda with regard to Cindy McCain; I simply recently read an article about her charitable works that really surprised me because I'd never heard much about what she does.  I thought that perhaps others might not be aware of it too, which is why I posted.  I tried to keep it short and inoffensive. 

    While Wikipedia is not usually my preferred source for information, it is a neutral source and the bio of Cindy McCain is pretty balanced, for those who are interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cindy_McCain

  • NoH8
    NoH8 Member Posts: 2,726
    edited August 2008

    LA, how about last night???????????????????????????? The roll call was exciting. Mass. was my favorite giving a shout out for marriage, and I thought Hillary did a great job calling for the voting to end. Bill Clinton scored a touchdown, he hit the right notes and listening to him I believed what he said.

    Beau Biden made me cry and love his father even more and Joe Biden was phenomenal. Did you see Michelle O bawling during Beau's story? When Obama took the stage I was so excited. He was on just long enough to give the Clintons their shout outs and excite the crowd.

    I cannot wait until tonight. Can you believe the republicans are criticizing the stage. They've been acting like a bunch of third graders and Obama's sophisticated responses have made them look even worse. I am rubber, you are glue, whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you, LOL.

  • LAphoenix
    LAphoenix Member Posts: 452
    edited August 2008

    Another great night for the Dems!  I didn't get to see all of Clinton's speech because I was volunteering at my daughter's school but caught most of it and saw the Bidens' speeches in rerun.  There wasn't a dry eye in the house, as they say.  I was surprised by how many men were tearing up.   

    Yeah, I don't get all the outcry about the stage--it's a sports stadium and they've add a backdrop that includes columns.  It could be Greek, it could be White Housey, it could be Lincolnesque, it could even remind people of slave plantations.  I suspect it was meant to suggest stability, strength and yes, power.  Maybe columns wouldn't be my choice of backdrop, but it's hardly worth foaming at the mouth about.  He opened up the process to ordinary people, not just the politicos who are delegates--that's the important point.  If he had done the usual thing, with balloons, I'm sure he'd be crticized for being a phony egalitarian.  It's just another case of damned-if--you-do, damned-if-you-dont.

    I wanted to say a few more things about Cindy . . . Most rich people have charities or foundations and get tax breaks from them.  I don't think that necessarily negates from their efforts.  Teresa Kerry also does a lot of charitable work, and I think that she, like Cindy, deserves points for her work.  Michelle and Hillary also have done great things for women and children.  Cindy apparently chose an arena she had a particular interest and training for, so she probably put more into her charitable work than some.  I give her credit for that.  She's obviously had a complicated life, and I wouldn't necessarily condemn her for her addiction or petty crimes she may have committed while ill.  I'd even forgive her for being the Other Woman, the younger prettier rival.  I do have a problem with the conservative tendency to be hypocrites about other people's sins and to punish people who don't share their worldview for the exact same sins they themselves have committed.  Limbaugh, for instance, railing against drug users while he is using drugs.  Larry Craig denouncing gays while he himself is gay.  And sentencing low-income addicts to long prison terms, while making sure none of their people, like Cindy, do time for the same crimes.  It's actually worse than mere hypocrisy because it often involves punishing people in very real ways.

    Cindy's comment about her patriotism, as compared to Michelle's, was very snarky, and she gets demerits for that.  I also don't get why she forgave and now apparently embraces the Rove attack machine that demeaned not only her, but her daughter as well.  To me, hurting a child as a political means to an end is unforgiveable, and it's one of the reasons I get my hackles up about Rove and the Swift Boaters and the depths to which they will sink to gain power.  Obama has instructed his donors not to give to 527s.  And Cindy's trip to Georgia does include a publicized visit with the president.  That gives the trip political overtones, even if they're "old friends."  And the timing certainly was convenient, just as the apparent planned leak of McCain's VP selection will be tonight.  But that's just politics as usual, I guess.

    OK, off my soapbox for today.  Tonight's gonna be a party!   

  • NoH8
    NoH8 Member Posts: 2,726
    edited August 2008

    I love Teresa Heinz-Kerry. I love that she wasn't a cookie cutter first lady hopeful. She's is one phenomenal person. I remember vividly the crash that killed her husband, the debris falling on the ground while children played outside at recess.

     I don't blame Cindy for getting her rightful tax breaks, I just question her authenticity. She's too much of a Barbie Stepford hoping to be first lady.  Her snarky remarks about Michelle also rubbed me the wrong way. She seemed very mean spirited. She was the first to say that her husband's campaign would be about issues, not attacks. Guess she forgot how bad the Rove attacks were, insinuating that her husband fathered an illegitimate child. As you say LA, How does a mother forgive what was done to her child in the name of winning and endorse it now after her husband started doing the same thing, if not worse.

    I think it';s laughable that the republicans don't have anything better to talk about than the stage. None of them seem to remember a similar column style setting when their guru was anointed king... I mean republican candidate. They know McCain could never pull such a crowd and garner the enthusiasm of Obama, so they've tried to turn his positive into a negative. I don't know anyone dumb enough to fall for that.

    Are you guys going to watch the republican convention? I was planning to, but now I'm not so sure. I'm on such a high from the dems I don't think I can bear to hear cheering when the biased party talks about defending their marriages from me and the hope of denying women the right to choose. I want to watch so I am informed, but I don't want to feel like the whole party is against everything that I value and hold so dear. It's not possible to have an intelligent discussion based on snippets and what people are saying about the convention. Maybe I'll start a fund and put a dollar in a jar everytime they say something insulting and/or untrue and go on a shopping spree afterwards. Of course, I might go broke before that can happen... I really want to have a drinking game for everytime McCain says "my friends", but I also don't want alcohol poisoning so maybve it will be a tiny tiny sip....

  • NoH8
    NoH8 Member Posts: 2,726
    edited August 2008

    Obama friends-- what did  you think of the speech?

    I was a little disappointed with the lead in film, I thought it was too low key and didn't show case enough about Obama the man. I can understand them not wanting to exploit the kids and have them speak on the film, but I would have liked to see more about Obama the father. I thought the speech was very presidential and very good. I'm not sure if it's the best speech of his life, although some are saying it is. I really loved the speech on race. I love the line, "washington doesn't bring change to us, we bring change to washington." I thought Obama did a great job of calling for discussion on the issues, not on the minutiae of criticizing the stage and red herrings the republicans are hurling. Seriously, how does "celebrity" or "toga party" help the American people?

    I don't like that everyone who criticizes McCain has to first say that he's a patriotic american blah blah blah and I really hate how McCain is playing the POW card.  Being a POW is an ordeal, but if McCain still hasn't worked through most of the PTSD crap from back there that it's a response to any criticism, how can people think he can lead the country. I doubt a communist foreign leader is going to care one way or another during a heated negotiation that he was a POW-- that is if McCain would even talk to them-- bomb first, ask questions later seems like his plan and diplomacy seems like a foreign concept to him. Personally, I don't think playing the POW card is. Using that as a campaign tool doesn't seem patriotic to me. Not wanting to fund college education for ALL who serve in the military in efforts to get them to stay in the service doesn't seem patriotic to me. After all, he didn't stay in the service.

    My only complaint about Obama's speech is likening the struggle for gay marriage as us wanting to have hospital visitation with our sick spouses. Marriage is so much more than that. It's creating families with the same legal rights as our heterosexual counterparts and being seen as equal in the eyes of our government. I know he has to walk a thin line between being gung ho for our rights and scaring off the more conservatives and I want him to win the election. I don't want marriage to be the reason he loses the election.. even though I think he will win.

    I loved the preObama speeches too and tribute to MLK. In some ways it seems so long since king made the I HAVE A DREAM speech, but in others 45 years isn't that long looking at an entire history.  Gay rights seem to be moving at a snails pace, but someday it probably won't seem that long either.

  • NoH8
    NoH8 Member Posts: 2,726
    edited August 2008

    Sarah Palin for McCain? I had a feeling he might go with a woman to try to poach some of Hillary's supporters. It won't if they look at her conservative social policies and antichoice stance. I'm glad to see a woman nominated, although I hate to see a woman with such an antiwoman stance on women's rights. I can't wait to see the debate between Palin and Biden, he's going to have to be careful not to be too tough or some people will say he's picking on a woman like they did with Hillary in the debates. On one hand I'm really happy to see a woman, but I hate thinking that he picked a woman solely because she's a woman (like Harriet Myers for the supremes) because that's insulting to women. In the words or Rachel Maddow, we're not interchangeable.

  • LAphoenix
    LAphoenix Member Posts: 452
    edited August 2008

    SmileSmileSmileSmile  Me happy.  As an event, last night was just about perfect.  I thought Obama's speech was a great mix of inspiration and feistiness.  The stadium setting worked well and fit with the content of his speech.  He was talking about ordinary people *to* ordinary people.  The people who were on the stage with him, the extended Obama-Biden family, represented the variety and blending of America today, as did the folks in the audience.  And how could you not be moved by the historical significance of the night?  I remember my mother, who was fortunate enough to attend the King rally, talking about that speech when I was little.

    Despite all the criticism, I thought the background didn't detract from his presentation, as what viewers saw while he was speaking was actually very simple.  A simple geometric design with one flag.  I don't think the columns, which were framing the big screens, were that noticeable.   

    My favorite moments from the speech:

    His line about wanting the same things for his girls as others want for their boys.

    His line about his mother dying of cancer and having to fight with the insurance companies.

    His line about "we all want to serve our country."  I liked that one in particular because he didn't just say "I want" -- he acknowledged the frustration of all progressives who are sick of being labeled unpatriotic because we don't like war. 

    His line about McCain's 90 percent Bush voting record and not wanting to gamble on the 10 percent.

    His reference to the fact that McCain started agitating for war in Iraq 3 months after 9/11 (I don't think a lot of people know that McCain and his foreign policy advisor were an active part of the Iraq deception, not just an after-the-fact supporter of the war.)

    His line about McCain wanting to chase bin Laden to the gates of hell, but not to the cave where he lives.  (That I guess is a reference to the fact that McCain criticized Obama for saying he would go into Pakistan if necessary.)

    His line about Republicans' ownership philosophy and how they need to "own their failures."  Snap!

    I would disagree with him on one point.  I think he was being generous when he said that McCain cares about people but just doesn't get it.  I would say that McCain doesn't get it because he doesn't care.  About domestic issues anyway.  His passion is foreign policy, and more specifically he seems intent on re-starting the Cold War.  As you say Amy, he seems stuck in the past.  And not even the recent past. 

    I wish Obama had talked more about the environment, not just energy policy.  I know that was Gore's thing, but a passing reference in Obama's speech would have been good.  I also would have been happy if Obama had gone into more detail about his proposals, but it seems that whenever politicians talk policy specifics in speeches, people's eyes glaze over, so I guess he'll have to save that for the debates.

    I didn't have strong feelings about the lead-in film, but I did enjoy seeing photos of Obama's extended family.  Her speech wasn't great, but I thought it was cool that they got Susan Eisenhower to speak.  And although the coverage I saw didn't actually show them up close, it was great that they had all those retired generals (34?) endorsing Obama as commander-in-chief. 

    So all in all, a great night for the Dems, and overall, a great convention.  I think they're going to get a lot more enthusiastic volunteers and money as a result, and that's sort of the point of these things anyway.

    To answer your previous question, Amy . . . I'm not going to watch the Republican convention.  As they say, conventions are 4-day infomercials, and I know I'm not interested in buying that product, and I don't expect they'll say anything we haven't heard before. You know how they like the repetition . . . saying things over and over to catapult the propaganda (to quote our current president).

  • NoH8
    NoH8 Member Posts: 2,726
    edited August 2008

    I might watch Sarah's speech just to hear more about her. She did pretty well when McCain introduced her. but I need to know more about her record and the ethics investigation against her. What I heard is that she had her BIL fired and then claimed it was because he was abusing her sister... spousal abuse is wrong, but shouldn't a governor have figured out a better way to go about punishing him with all the legal options at her disposal. I'm going to google more about it.

  • Ivylane
    Ivylane Member Posts: 544
    edited August 2008

    Ok, well, as a woman I am really insulted by McSame's choice of VP.  I'm sure Mrs. Palin is a lovely person, but come ON...VP????  SHE seemed more surprised at her selection than anyone.

    If she were a man, she NEVER would have been chosen.  She has been governor for 20 months.  That's it!. McSame and his cronies are assuming that  women will buy into this ticket simply because there is "regular middle class WOMAN" on the team and that we want to see a woman on the ticket at all cost.  Very sad.

    I also supported Hillary (at first) but changed my allegiance to Obama a few months ago.  For those people who were Hillary supporters, I am curious to know if you will still be on the McSame bandwagon after this announcement.  Many of you, from what I have read, think that Barack does not have the experience necessary.  I guess I'm wondering what the thoughts are now considering the possibility that Ms. Palin may at some point have to take the helm. 

  • BethNY
    BethNY Member Posts: 2,710
    edited August 2008

    I truly hope that most of the Hillary supporters are on board at this point with Barack.  I thought Hillarys speech was fantastic, and I thought Bill knocked it out of the park.

    I said here long ago, that as disappointed as I was about Hillary not being on the ticket, I still have to put the needs of the party, no, the needs of my country, ahead of being stubborn and opting not to vote at all.

    I thought Barack was great last night.  LA PHeonix, Every line that you wrote were favorites of mine too.  I especially loved when he challenged McCain to a debate, and how he went from one camera angle to starring directly ahead and pointing his finger when he said it, as if to be looking directly into McCains eyes.

    As far as McCain choosing Palin... if these still undecided voters are swayed by adding a "middle class mom" to the ticket, they are fools.  She might as well be a man, for everything that she believes in.  I truly hope I don't get backlash for this post...

    I rarely post on these political boards b/c it's gotten me into trouble in the past, and truthfully I'll be happy once election year is over (unless Barack loses, which just the thought of makes me sick to my stomach) so we can all go back to being friendly breast cancer sisters.

    I, will be forced to endure some of the republican convention, b/c I am marrying a republican. please, not comments. lol.

    An aside-- on how cute Barack and michelles kids are... so the night of the convention when Michelle Obama spoke, and at the end, the girls came on stage with her... they didn't know their dad would appear on the satellite.  You can see Michelle leaning into the girls to say something, and Malea mouths something back, which caused Michelle to laugh really hard.

    The next day on the news Michelle said she leaned into the girls to say, I have a surprise for you, to which Malea replied, WHAT? THE JONAS BROTHERS???

    hahahaha.... gotta love these kids.

  • LAphoenix
    LAphoenix Member Posts: 452
    edited August 2008

    Either the McCain campaign did an amazing job at being secretive or Palin was a choice of desperation.  She won't bring in any battleground states or moderates or indies.  Women who don't agree with her politics certainly won't vote for McCain just because she's a woman.  I guess she's supposed to energize the base, but will that be enough?  I just hope Biden doesn't go easy on her during the debate because he doesn't want to be accused of being mean to a mother of five.   It will be interesting to see how McCain interacts with her. 

    Funny story about Malea.  I hadn't heard that.  Just read that 38 million people watched Obama's speech last night, beating even the opening night of the Olympics!  I fear that the Republican convention may be competing with hurricane coverage.  The people down there certainly don't deserve more hurricanes, especially as some of them are still living in their Katrina trailers.

        

  • sccruiser
    sccruiser Member Posts: 1,119
    edited August 2008

    I thought yesterday's DNC was wonderful. Every speaker was articulate and clear on what we face if McCain is voted in as president. We will have 4 more years of the same.

    I was watching ourPBS channel earlier, and Charlie Rose was interviewing a woman (didn't get her name, sorry) about Obama's speech last night. She said, that he still needs to drill down on the economy more, and bring it into his speeches as it is so important to most of us in this country. She also said that she had spoken to Obama's chief strategist, and that when someone praises any part of his speeches, he doesn't thank them--instead, he says that he can do much better the next time. She sees this as a real positive for him in the WH as President, because he will always be assessing what happens and how he makes his decisions. She says he has a way of "removing" himself from the issue--like taking a few steps back--and really studying the situation without considering his personal opinion and make the decision "for the good of all the citizens."

    It seems others on other threads are only able to comment or express an opinion on "personal" issues, such as how they are dressed or showing up on stage as a family.

    I thought it was wonderful that Obama made that special appearance at the end of Biden's acceptance speech. That really helps to move the unity we need forward. And I thought Biden was terrific. He will certainly give McCain and Palin a run for the money. It really appears that McCain feels he needs a "pretty" person in order to win--like Obama is "handsome" so we have to match it with someone who looks good and doesn't have any experience. Even if I were to be on the fence about who to vote for (and I'm not), as a woman I could never cast my vote for McCain/Palin, simply because Palin might as well be a man--she has no clue about women's rights. She is conservative, Anti-CHOICE, an NRA supporter, cuts government costs that affect the less wealthy--typical Republican conservative--AND she supports drilling in ANWR!! Oh my gosh, if we didn't have problems to the extreme with the current "regime" administration--like we need 4 more years of conservative don't listen to the majority of your citizens type of government--not only is McCain out of touch--the Republican party is out of touch.

    Will I watch their convention? Don't know--maybe bits and pieces--like some on other threads--I have to make sure I don't end up w/temporary HBP!!!

    This will be an interesting election process, no doubt. At least we don't have any states that are strategic with relatives of McCain in charge! We don't, right? No plants to keep some people (those without white skin) from voting? I hope this will be a fair election. It is amazing that we had Bush for eight years because of some ultraconservative Supreme court justices, 5 electoral votes, and Gore winning the popular vote by .5 %!! And we were left with a president who will go down as the worst president in the history of this country--wow--wonder how he likes that label?

    Have a great weekend everyone--I'm off to finish getting ready for our annual Labor Day weekend family and friend fest here in the Redwoods. Ah, a little wine and some good food and no political discussions!! 

  • LAphoenix
    LAphoenix Member Posts: 452
    edited August 2008

    Gathering more info on Palin . . . McCain met her for the first time in February.  For all intents and purposes, they don't know each other.  She doesn't know what his policy on Iraq is (hope she's a quick study).  She's against putting polar bears on the endangered list because it might interfere with drilling.  Her husband was on an oil company payroll.  She's associated with 2 different ethics scandals in Alaska (was she even vetted I wonder).  She believes in teaching creationism in school.  She's a former Pat Buchanan supporter.  So Grace, you're right, she's out there.  She may have an interesting life story, be attractive and tough in an outdoorsy sort of way, but she's not even vaguely like Hillary.  More like Dan Quayle.  A heartbeat away from the WH?  Yikes.         

    Grace, I've read that the Republicans have started on their voter purging in battleground states.  You know, looking for those common black names on the felons list, with the intention of challenging black voters at the polls.  Something tells me those voters aren't going to put with that this time, though.  

    Enjoy the redwoods and the wine! 

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited August 2008

    <<She's associated with 2 different ethics scandals in Alaska >>

    i was just reading about that ...

    http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/8/29/141257/329

    the story update ...VERY interesting....

    "Don't think the McCain campaign is worried about Palin's ties to Stevens? Then why was the ad above featuring Stevens stumping and vouching for Palin mysteriously scrubbed from Palin's website? "

    http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/08/palin_ad_starring_ted_stevens.php

    .........................

    <<More like Dan Quayle.>> i just read something that likened her to spiro agnew ...maybe that was before your time...Laughing

  • LAphoenix
    LAphoenix Member Posts: 452
    edited August 2008

    OMG, again!  I just watched the video of the Palin press conference for the first time.  McCain really was checking out her ass while she was speaking.  And twirling his wedding ring.  I mean, he wasn't even subtle about it.  He kept staring at it, over and over again.  Yuck!   Even Clinton wasn't that obvious of a lech.  And as far as I know, Bill never had the hots for Al.  So I guess the Republicans really are making history.   

    So I admit I'm confused about Alaskan politics.  She earned a rep as a maverick for bucking the Republican establishment and Ted Stevens, but she may now get into trouble for her too cozy relationship with and contributions to Stevens?  And she insisted on ethics reform, but is now being investigated for an ethics violation?  

    laurap: The Agnew comparison is a good one.  I grew up in Maryland, so I'm actually all too familiar with him.    

  • djd
    djd Member Posts: 866
    edited August 2008

    Palin as VP is easily, if not more, laughable than Harriett Miers for the SCOTUS.  I predict that her legitimacy will fold like a house of cards in the next few days and she will decline the nomination.

  • junie
    junie Member Posts: 1,216
    edited August 2008

    This is so interesting and exciting!  We have company and therefore, a houseful of voting adults with strong feelings for both parties.   We have had some major discussions today!  We were all flabbergasted by McCain's VP pick, although Palin's name had been tossed about previously in the press.

    One theory our group summed up was that McCain's political advisors have told him he has no way in hell of winning this election and that he needs to do the least damage to the party.  Therefore, pick a running mate who will not be seen in the future as a loser so would stand a stronger chance to win in the next election.   I, for one, am finding it difficult to hear the comments that Palin brings more experience to the table than Obama/Biden.

    Can't wait for the debates!  I wish Palin the best and hope that she has not been selected to be a "sacrificial lamb" for the Rep party.

  • NoH8
    NoH8 Member Posts: 2,726
    edited August 2008

    Beth I hadn't heard the Jonas brothers quote. At least the kids have their priorities straight, LOL. I have a feeling that Hillary will either A) have a place in the administration or B) have an important role in the senate furthering the american agenda (health care, human rights etc.)  and she won't be afraid to tell Obama when she disagrees with him, which is what he is asking for. I think she'll be more productive for the country in either of those roles, even though the presidential ticket is a higher position.

    Reports say that McCain only met Palin once, 6 months ago at a governor's conference, before inviting her to one of his houses this past weekend. That alone is a bit frightening. Reports also said she got her passport last year---- eek.

    Interesting tidbit that both Cindy McCain and Sarah Palin are former beauty pageant contestants.

    Palin is obviously a bright, successful woman and it's great that she can run a state of 600,000 people and balance motherhood.  I heard women, albeit not savvy politically, say, "if she can raise 5 kids she can be VP." I'm not knocking motherhood, but please.....

    She is against choice, and so against abortion she thinks it should be illegal even in the cases of rape and incest, yet she's not for universal health care for the unwanted babies that would produce. She's be praised by some republicans for having her 5 mo old downs syndrome son, which is ridiculous since she is antiabortion so the decision would have been a no brainer for her. I know someone who had a baby due to incest at 11 years old (they didn';t know she was pregnant until she gave birth, but that's beside the point).

    I hope that people who supported Hillary won't vote for Palin simply because she has a vagina and that they'll examine her socially conservative views before they simply pull the level for the XX chromosones.

  • LAphoenix
    LAphoenix Member Posts: 452
    edited August 2008

    If McCain picked Palin in order to fire up the religious right base, he picked wisely.  If McCain picked Palin in order to get Hillary voters, he's totally deluded.  In fact I'm willing to bet this move will backfire on him where Hillary voters are concerned.  Not only won't they vote for him because of her, they might even be motivated to vote for Obama, or donate to his campaign.  McCain picking Palin to get Democratic women would be like him picking Alan Keyes or Clarence Thomas to get black voters.  She doesn't even support equal pay for equal work.  And she called Hillary a "whiner."  It's an insult to Hillary supporters and it shows that the MEN who are running McCain's campaign, and McCain himself, don't "get" women.

    And what does the Palin pick say about McCain's judgment?  He accuses Obama of putting his own political ambitions ahead of his country (gag), but this selection has obviously been done for political reasons only.  He can't possibly believe that she is more qualified to run the country than everyone else on his short list.  Obama at least has some national experience, and he certainly has some experience with foreign affairs, given that he was on the Senate foreign relations committee.  McCain picked someone to help him win, not to help the country.  So enough of the "I'm-above-politics" b.s.

              

  • NoH8
    NoH8 Member Posts: 2,726
    edited August 2008

    Sarah Palin seems like a nice woman if she never opened her mouth about health and politics. She seems down to earth with a good disposition.

    i hope this doesn't sound sexist and I would say the same about a man. Is she going to be able to adequately bond with and parent a special needs infant while being vice president (if the worst happens and McCain is elected)? Also what would happen if she has more kids, I'm not sure if birth control is part of her religion. I  know pregnant women aren't allowed to fly after a certain time and I'm sure she would be considered high risk. I'm all for equal rights in the work place, but when you're 2nd in command of the free world working under someone who's had cancer twice and is 72 years old pregnancy would impair her from her job.

  • LAphoenix
    LAphoenix Member Posts: 452
    edited August 2008

    Amy, it's funny you should mention flying while pregnant.  I guess you haven't heard the story about how Palin not only flew from Alaska to Texas in July when she was 9 months pregnant, but insisted on flying back to Alaska after she had gone into labor and her water had broken.  Her husband was with her, so it wasn't a matter of wanting to have family around.  She just didn't want to have her baby in Texas for some reason.  (Is it another country?)  She said the doctors OK'd it--no doubt very reluctantly--but does that sound like someone acting responsibly and in her baby's best interest?  Or someone being stubborn?  It will make a great story for the grandkids, but does it suggest the kind of judgment that would make a good VP?  Or president?  Yes, you're right, doctors generally advise women not to fly in the last trimester if possible.  The trip she took wasn't vital to her work (it was a governors conference), but she chose to go anyway.  

  • NoH8
    NoH8 Member Posts: 2,726
    edited August 2008

    I forgot, I did hear that story. I wonder if she thinks that story is a badge of honor? Is her kid 5 weeks or 5 months old or is that a different child? It sure doesn't sound like someone acting in the best interest of her child. I'm always confused when someone like her wants to tell others about their reproductive rights when not being a shining example of acting in the best interest of a child who's about to be born or already born.

  • LAphoenix
    LAphoenix Member Posts: 452
    edited August 2008

    I thought the news said her baby was 3 months old, but maybe it's closer to 2.  I forgot to add that after she got to Alaska, she didn't go to the nearest hospital, but insisted on driving to a hospital in a very rural area. 

    So it seems the Obama strategy for dealing with Palin so far is to say nothing.  I guess they're assuming she'll implode on her own, like Harriet Meier (sp?).  Huffington Post ran a couple of editorials from the major Alaskan newspapers questioning their own governor's qualifications and McCain's sanity in nominating her.

    If anyone's interested in getting the story on "troopergate," I came across this blog summary, wirtten by an Alaskan:  

    Sarah Palin's sister Molly married a guy named Mike Wooten who is an Alaska State Trooper.  Mike and Molly had a rocky marriage.  When the marriage broke up, there was a bitter custody fight that is still ongoing.  During the custody investigation, all sorts of things were brought up about Wooten including the fact that he had illegally shot a moose (yes folks this is Alaska), driven drunk, and used a taser (on the test setting, he reminds us) on his 11-year old stepson, who supposedly had asked to see what it felt like.  While Wooten has turned out to be a less than stellar figure, the fact that Palin's father accompanied him on the infamous moose hunt, and that many of the dozens of charges brought up by the Palin family happened long before they were ever reported smacked of desperate custody fight.  Wooten's story is that he was basically stalked by the family.

    After all this, Wooten was investigated and disciplined on two counts and allowed to keep his position with the troopers.  Enter Walt Monegan, Palin's appointed new chief of the Department of Public Safety and head of the troopers.  Monegan was beloved by the troopers, did a bang-up job with minimal funding and suddenly got axed.  Palin was out of town and Monegan got "offered another job" (aka fired) with no explanation to Alaskans.  Pressure was put on the governor to give details, because rumors started to swirl around the fact that the highly respected Monegan was fired because he refused to fire the aforementioned Mike Wooten.  Palin vehemently denied ever talking to Monegan or pressuring Monegan in any way to fire Wooten, or that anyone on her staff did.  Over the weeks it has come out that not only was pressure applied, there were literally dozens of conversations in which pressure was applied to fire him.  Monegan has testified to this fact, spurring an ongoing investigation by the Alaska state legislature.  But, before this investigation got underway, Palin sent the Alaska State Attorney General out to do some investigative work of his own so she could find out in advance what the real investigation was going to find.  (No, I'm not making this up).  The AG interviewed several people, unbeknownst to the actual appointed investigator or the Legislature! Palin's investigation of herself uncovered a recorded phone call retained by the Alaska State Troopers from Frank Bailey, a Palin underling, putting pressure on a trooper about the Wooten non-firing.  Todd Palin (governor's husband) even talked to Monegan himself in Palin's office while she was away.  Bailey is now on paid administrative leave.

    As if this weren't enough, Monegan's appointed replacement Chuck Kopp, turns out to have been the center of his own little scandal.  He received a letter of reprimand and was reassigned after sexual harrassment allegations by a former coworker who didn't like all the unwanted kissing and hugging in the office.  Was he vetted?  Obviously not.  When he was questioned about all this, his comment was that no one had asked him and he thought they all knew.  Kopp, defiant, still claimed to have done nothing wrong and said to the press that there was no way he was stepping down from his new position.  Twenty four hours later, he stepped down.  Later it was uncovered that he received a $10,000 severance package for his two weeks on the job from Palin.  Monegan got nothing.

    After extensive news coverage about all this nasty behind-the-scenes scandal, which is definitely NOT squeaky clean, Palin's approval ratings fell to 67%, still high, but a far cry from the 90% number that's being thrown around so glibly by the Republicans today.  Alaskans are quickly becoming disillusioned once again.

    There's more about her on the blog, as well as a picture of the little town she was mayor of:

    http://mudflats.wordpress.com/2008/08/29/what-is-mccain-thinking-one-alaskans-perspective/

  • NoH8
    NoH8 Member Posts: 2,726
    edited August 2008

    The baby did look younger than 5 months, so I must have heard wrong. OMG- the rural hospital makes me question just what kind of judgment she has if she doesn't even have the best/safest judgment of delivering her own child. I'll bet 90% of the hospitals in TX are better than 100% of the Alaskan hospitals.

    I hope all the scuttle about her ethics gets a lot of air time.

    I assume her ratings in Alaska will go up, if nothing because her nomination Alaska on the map.

    I wonder how gustav will effect the republican convention. I heard Bush won't be there (the republicans are probably celebrating the luck of the timing and not having the soon to be ex-prez there). I hope they don't try to exploit it.

    It'll be hard to find much on Obama this week with the Repub convention and Gustav. I feel so bad for the N.O. people. I bet Obama gets some time at home to see his kids off to their first day(s) of school.

  • LAphoenix
    LAphoenix Member Posts: 452
    edited August 2008

    It looks like Bush is going to do everything right this time around in regards to Gustav.  One hopes they learned something from Katrina.  The Repubs certainly can't afford to screw it up again.  Since Bush announced he isn't going into the gulf area proper, McCain probably won't either.  I think people would see through the politics of that real fast.  I heard they might be shortening the convention because of Gustav.  I suspect they have mixed feelings about Gustav's timing.  On the one hand, they won't have to worry about topping Obama and dealing with Bush, on the other hand, they won't have as much time to catapult the propaganda (I just love that Bush quote!).  But I feel terrible for the folks in the gulf, especially those who still haven't recovered from Katrina.  I'm praying the levies hold.

    Early polling about Palin bears out what we had been predicting.  Even without knowing that much about her, women aren't falling for it.  8 percent of women are more likely to vote for McCain now, but 15 percent are less likely.  More men, however, are more likely to vote for her.  And a lot more women than men think she's unprepared to be president.  That could be the big surprise (or maybe it was the plan all along, who knows) . . . that Palin will be a magnet for men, not women.  If that's the case, wouldn't that be sadly ironic?  She's out there crowing about the glass ceiling, while men are turning her into a sex object.

    I have to admit I'm finding the Palin pick perversely fascinating.  Do you think McCain did it impulsively on his own, defying his advisors, or was he pushed into it by the Rove faction?  Are they hoping there won't be enough time for the media to fully expose her before the election?   Or that her personal story will overshadow everything else?  Do you think Biden will go easy on her in the debate, for fear of looking too harsh?  I hope he keeps the image of her aiming that high-power rifle in his head.

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