Just Get Over It -- A Rant

MountainMia

I'm not much for ranting in public, but I'll make an exception today. I'll preface this by saying I have a rocky relationship with my daughter-in-law, for reasons I don't understand.

Husband and I traveled to visit Son and DIL and baby for Thanksgiving week. We thought things went well, enjoyed our time with them, visited pleasantly with them and with her parents, who were also there. We felt quite pleased with it all, since the last time we were there it wasn't great.

On Sunday, Son sent an ugly email telling us that it did NOT go well, that they were "uncomfortable" around me the whole time, and that I was negative and pessimistic. He suggested I should see a therapist, since I'm obviously doing so badly. Seeing a therapist can be a GREAT idea!! I have no problems with the notion!! But in fact, I'm doing FINE. NO ONE, of all the people who spend time with me regularly, including my husband, including myself, have any reason to think I'm doing badly, or that I need professional help.

There was a lot of meanness to his email. One thing that especially got me was this: "By all accounts, this should have been a good year - a grandson was born, Mom finished her cancer treatments, and the plan was to see everyone over Christmas. "

Yeah, Mom finished her cancer treatments. So I guess I should be over it by now. Perhaps I would be, (or perhaps not) if I'd finished my treatments on, like, January 3.

He completely negates the 9 months of treatment I went through THIS YEAR, diagnosis, genetic testing, surgery, chemo, radiation, and finally reduction surgery on my healthy breast. He negates the fact that a dear friend died of cancer on the SAME DAY that I finished radiation in September. He negates the fact that someone he worked with for 2 years in college, with TNBC as I have, found out at the end of October that his cancer metastasized to his liver. He completely negates the 8 medical appointments I had in October and November, the 6 appointments I have scheduled in January 2020, the fact that TNBC and breast cancer in general is NOT OVER until you die from something else.

But I guess I should be over it now.

He ended his email by saying they might not come for Christmas after all, and in the meantime don't contact him.

One of the things I used to be proud of about my son was that he was kind. This is not the person I raised. I am angry. I am hurt. And I am sad. And I'm even embarrassed. But MOST of all, I'm really confused. I honestly don't know where this comes from. It is so confusing.

ctmbsikia

Hi Mountain. So sorry. Wondering if the dear dil is the one saying your mom should be over it by now? Ha! You just wrote the perfect reply (should you reply) : fact that TNBC and breast cancer in general is NOT OVER until you die from something else.

Or maybe she wanted Thanksgiving with her family and Christmas with your family? Blending families sometimes doesn't always work especially if it's over a long period of time, like a week and not just dinner. That should be easily communicated though?

I really have no words of wisdom not knowing you or family personally, so I will just leave you with what I do these days:

1-No toxic people in lives. Ever. I have/had some of them. Friends are gone. Family I only deal with them as I have to. Most are my husbands siblings. He has 6 of them. My husband is currently dying of lung cancer. Don't need their help, yet if they just want to see or be with their brother, that's what will be allowed, and only if he says so.

2-Even if it is family I'm NOT bending over backwards, or wasting ANY of my time wondering why you don't like me!!! Especially if there was no offending action mentioned.

3-You already realize how short life really is, it maybe really hard to not spend time with your grandchild but in the meantime you can do what you want to do.

MountainMia

ctmbsikia, thanks for the sympathy and the wise words. This is the most important part, to me: "Even if it is family I'm NOT bending over backwards, or wasting ANY of my time wondering why you don't like me!!! Especially if there was no offending action mentioned." That's GOOD advice!

I did respond to him, in particular relative to another complaint that he had, for a problem he and his wife made for themselves. (LONG story, not worth repeating now, but I'm their bad guy in that story, too.) I also did tell him we won't be contacting him. So he gets to choose what to do and how to be. And I get to choose to accept that he's changed, and I get to choose whether or not I still want that person in my life.

Thank you.

mitziandbubba

Sounds to me like DIL had something to do with this. I don't get along so well with my SIL, and I have to bite my tongue with my husband - b/c if I say one negative thing he gets very upset and angry. He always says that he will always choose me over his family and I do not want him to do this - b/c my SIL is just mildly annoying, I'm not seriously upset with her ever. But the minute I express anything, he's mad.

One night I had a dream that my SIL made up having cancer so that my husband would visit her because she was jealous of the attention I got after my diagnosis. It was so ridiculous, she'd never do that - but when I told my husband he said that is something he could see her doing! You see we wives are very influential!

So I'm sure she said something and it influenced him. I do hope it blows over and that he comes to his senses.

And you do not just get over it of course. I am certainly not!

AliceBastable

Families can be such a horror story! I'm kind of lucky with Hubby's large family; we get together once or twice a year with all generations, which is up to about 60 people now. Everybody gets along great - which they might not if we saw each other more often. But in a big group, it stays pretty superficial and easy. My family, on the other hand - ugh. Me and Hubby, one adult son, one sister, her two adult offspring and their SOs, and a few grandchildren. I haven't seen all of them together since my nephew's post-wedding meet-the-families in May of 2018. My sister and niece were at our long-delayed, minimalist gravesite burial for my mother (died in January of 2018, finally buried the ashes in May last year). My sister did a few hit & run drop-offs of foods I couldn't have last year after breast surgeries (like candy for a diabetic, gee, thanks). Hubby asked her to show up for my nephrectomy last September since it was the scariest surgery that year. He had to call her while I was in surgery because she forgot. She showed up, then left as soon as I got back in the room because she was too tired (she lives about three miles from the hospital, so not a long trek for her). Last time I saw her, almost 15 months ago. She, her kids, and my family all live in the same city, not far from each other, but it's such a chore to try to get together. We had a pre-Christmas thing scheduled last year that got cancelled at the last minute and never re-scheduled. I suggested a spring picnic get-together in a park; it never happened because nobody can free up one damn afternoon for family. And the cherry on top, my sister told me last winter I was "too needy." This was after an earlier complaint that I didn't share enough of what was going on with her. No word this year if anyone will pretend to have time for a family holiday gathering that won't actually happen.

Good grief, I guess I needed a rant. 😮 In conclusion, families sure can suck!

MountainMia

Alice, someone I know comforted me with "people are tiring." It's a little more subtle than "families suck," but it's in the same end of the spectrum!

One thing I remember learning a few years ago, after a bad incident with an ex-friend:

If you let someone live rent-free in your brain, don't be surprised if they trash the place. IOW, manage how much and when you think about them, and don't let them take over your thoughts. That's the strategy I'll need to take about Son and DIL.

Slightly more rant from me: I tried estimating how many medical appointments I've had this year, between Feb 2 and Dec 2, 10 months. My estimate, which will be pretty close, is somewhere between 55 and 65.

Now, I know that's not extraordinary around here! We all do that, yeah? But again, if he thinks I should GET OVER IT? I'm shaking my head...

AliceBastable

MountainMia, can you send your son a copy of your calendar with all the appointments you've had, and label it "YOU get over it; I've been too damn busy!"

Even though I haven't seen my sister in over a year, she texts me every day, several times, mostly text versions of talking to herself, occasional random insults, 50-year-old grievances against people I don't know, and every bite of food she eats. She used to call our Mom ten or more times a day with that stuff (Mom was not happy about it!) and now that she's gone, I get the text version. Thank goodness for notification blocks! I was a nervous wreck until I figured that out!

MountainMia

Alice, Sorry for the issues with your sister. Sounds like it doesn't really have anything to do with you, other than making your life more difficult.

As for my son, I won't be contacting him. Another lesson I learned years ago: don't chase after anyone who has walked away from you, no matter how much you want them back. He will need to come back to me. I believe he will, but it will have to be on his own time.

AliceBastable

Even adult kids need to be put in time out sometimes. I hope your son learns his lesson sooner rather than later.

santabarbarian

MM, I am sorry your son is hard to get along with right now. The fact that you have no idea what you "did" is interesting and it makes me wonder about your DIL's influence/jealousy/controllingness (is she a jerk?). Sometimes spouses can really F things up. If your DIL is bratty like this that may explain things, and in that case you have fewer options to move the situation in a healthier direction. However there may be a little wiggle room.

My three kids all responded quite differently to my diagnosis. My stepD (whom I raised) had lost her bio Mom to cancer several years ago, and she was frozen-- a deer in headlights. Her Mom was stage 4 denovo and lived another 7 years, many of them bumping from crisis to crisis in a ay where she probably had to numb out a little. My two sons were much more warmly supportive, calling and reaching out more; coming to care for me during chemo-- but I realized that my D was experiencing a lot of fear, that shut her down somewhat, and I did not take it personally. She was going through her own PTSD-- another Mom getting cancer. I am soooo glad I let it go. I did my rads near where she lives in part to have more contact w her, and that seemed to help a lot.

I know it is painful to feel estranged from one's own child. Especially if one is already scared, and in a potentially lethal circumstance. I think the distancing idea you have might make things worse, and feel to your son like a "FU for speaking up," instead of a healthy boundary.

IMO: I think it is wise to ask your H and a few other people if any of the criticisms from your S are valid. Just in case. I have found that my kids' criticisms of me are generally (at least partly) valid. If there is *any* validity, own it and apologize. If there is no validity, there is something else going on and it might help to figure out what.

Is you son's "rush" to get you mentally and topically out of "cancerland" possibly a fear reaction? (Can't we all get back to normal now that this is DONE?-- to get out of the scary thoughts...?) If it's fear that presents as officiousness that could be worked with.

In that case what about taking the high road, and communicating something like: "You know, honey, I too would LOVE to erase cancer from my consciousness, and my history-- but, sadly, I CAN'T do that just yet. I still have to get blood tests every 90 days because TNBC is very recurrent and I am in the window of prime recurrence right now. I will be a little bit more "done" with this when I pass 3 years. I am sure it's a stress on everyone who loves me that all of this happened, and I am sorry this stress falls on you-- but it's just a fact of my life right now. I will definitely try to be more conscious of negative or pessimistic comments but please also realize I am still in a "knock wood" period so my fears are still alive."

I think that approach might be more helpful than cutting off contact, assuming your son is not an asshole but rather just a scared person wanting a long ordeal to be fully over.

If he has a toxic wife (I hope not!), I would definitely also withdraw from "family" events, especially on holidays which are already stressful, and just see him one-on-one for a while. If you have to withdraw, I would make it invisible and low key.... not any announced "break" or refusal to communicate (which will only egg on a toxic wife in a power game).

Hugs to you. Sorry you are dealing with this!!

MountainMia

Thanks, santabarbarian. I'll re-read and think a lot about what you said, and likely reply more later. Just a note for now -- my husband doesn't know what's caused this, either. And Son is the one who requested we not contact him, even in case of emergency. I did not withdraw, he did. But ... as I said, I'll consider what you said carefully. Thank you for your thoughtful and kind comment.

MinusTwo

Mountain - I agree with how you've reacted. It doesn't matter if it's the son or the DIL - they are pissed. Best to just leave them alone no matter how much it hurts you. Chasing after painful relationships usually makes them more stressful. I love your quote and have shared with with any number of friends who have off & on relationships with their children - or siblings for that matter. But I have not shared it with my son - LOL. (We're on reasonable terms as long as I don't push or badger or expect too much in the way of personal discussion or confidences).

Everything is not always going to be sweetness and light and you don't need them raining on your parade right now. Give them some space & time to get over themselves. Many of my friends don't understand their children's choice of spouses. We can be polite, but we'll never bond.

You will definitely be in my thoughts over the holidays - which I will not be spending with my son. Well - a) he lives in a different state; b) he works; but c) they decided a couple of years ago they don't want to celebrate Christmas anymore because none of us need more stuff. It was hurtful and is still painful, but there's not one thing I can do about it so no point in continuing to cry.

If you let someone live rent-free in your brain, don't be surprised if they trash the place.

flashlight

If you let someone live rent-free in your brain, don't be surprised if they trash the place. I wish I had known about this quote 20+ years ago! I read this thread a day ago and can't get it out of my head. I wasn't the wife my MIL had in mind for her son. I was always supportive of their relationship even though I knew she didn't care for me. Some people just can't deal with the thought of someone close being ill or having to go through ongoing treatment. Most people don't understand our dry sense of humor as we go through this journey. I don't feel like the old me and I can't help it. If you love me accept it because right now I can't change any of it. I can't change that I have breast cancer and that it follows me everywhere I go. I don't want anyone to treat or look at me differently, but that is what your son and DIL did to you at Thanksgiving. That is what your son is forgetting. Whatever they felt you were doing wrong they played a part in it as well. His wife is being selfish and your son is being weak. Hopefully the New Year will bring peace because it will be their loss.

hapa

^I agree with flashlight.

I can't put the blame on the DIL when the words came out of your son's mouth, even if she antagonized the whole situation.

MountainMia

I don't want to assign blame to either of them for motivation. I don't know what her problem is with me, but I'm sure whatever it is colors his view of me, too. I can take my share of blame for ... whatever, but that would be a lot easier to do if I had some idea of what I did wrong.

What I did NOT do is be mean to anyone. I can thoughtless and sometimes tactless, but I am not mean.

So the blame I DO assign is to him for being mean. If there were problems, (and obviously they think there were,) there were ways to address it without being mean.

mistyeyes

At family get together I never talk about my cancer or treatments, I usually just say I feel great. It upset me more about your son being angry if he thought you had emotional problems and need a therapist. He should be more caring and see that what you went through was tough and treatments are long or sometimes forever, being angry about it is very childish. Family upsets can hurt very deeply.

Beesie

MountainMia, for me the issue is that you are getting this huge negative reaction from your son and you don't even know what you did wrong.This suggests that your son and DIL are overly sensitive, or they are reading things you didn't mean into something you said, or they are incredibly rigid in what they consider to be acceptable discussion and actions.

My concern moving forward, if you were to contact your son and try to continue the relationship, is that you will forever be walking on eggshells, always conscious of what you are saying and watching how they react. That seems pretty stressful.

I agree with your approach of waiting until your son is ready to contact you. Trying to force the relationship before he and your DIL are ready is bound to be uncomfortable at best, or result in fireworks that permanently end the relationship, at worst.

MountainMia

mistyeyes, agree. I didn't talk about how I feel or what I went through. I mentioned that I had "something" a couple weeks before that set me back a little on energy, but I didn't say what (a breast reduction surgery for my healthy breast!) or otherwise comment on my treatment or what I'd been through. So ?? not sure that my health commentary, as little as it was, had anything to do with it.

And Beesie, yes, walking on eggshells ... I really don't even want them to come for Christmas now, even though a) it won't be hosted at my house (because they stole my party from me,) and b) his sister who lives on the east coast is coming with her husband and 5 children, and he almost never gets to see any of them, and c) none of the 7 grandkids have met their new cousin... etc. But no matter HOW I act or react, it will be viewed with their judgmental eyes. I don't think I'll enjoy any of it if they are there.

Just in total, he's been a real jerk this year, which is not how he normally is. And while his life has undergone complete upheaval in the last year and a half (married, baby, transferred to a new state, sold a house, bought a house, etc.), that's no excuse to treat me so badly. My life has been rather upheaved, too.

santabarbarian

Yes, but if DIL is a competitive/ possessive/controlling type, then whether you try to make contact or not, she will spin either choice to a negative place. (Try = "she didn't listen; she does not respect you"; But leave them alone = "see? she doesn't care how you feel.")

It's interesting you used the phrase "walking on eggshells" Beesie.... because in the back of my mind was the thought that the DIL might have Borderline (BPD) traits. And there's a book about BPD called "Stop Walking On Eggshells"

People with borderline traits can appear fine, and can sometimes be very intelligent and charismatic, but are also very insecure, and play a lot of mind games, and they desperately need to have control, or they fall apart. So: an insecure DIL might get "power" or "specialness" by having your son "choose" her over you. Just a thought -- but I have dealt with a BPD person in my past and the WORST part was suddenly being 'on the outs' with them and having NO IDEA what I had "done," and no means to solve/resolve the problem.

When someone causes drama and emotional pain, and their victim has no idea what happened, that makes me think "borderline." FWIW

TB90

What really happened is far less important than how it was perceived. Feelings were hurt and now feelings continue to be hurt. Unless there is some clarification of how this happened, this situation will only continue to deteriorate and you risk losing a son. I know you have been through so much. This must be unbearable for you. But I can tell how much your son means to you and his kind soul that you describe did not suddenly disappear. Something happened. As a mother of an adult son and as a DIL to my former MIL, I know how crazy we can become. How sensitive and emotionally reactive we can become. But how our true self is still at our core. This really hurts. But I would place a bet that all parties did contribute to this. Communication is so important, yet so very imperfect. We all screw up. We mean one thing, say another. Use humour when it isn’t really funny to the other. Interpret incorrectly what was said. Assume responsibility when it has nothing to do with us. Blame others based upon false assumptions. I could go on and one. Communication involves many persons all with many imperfections. The option for error is enormous. The only way to avoid these errors is to check in and to check in frequently. We are so afraid to check in with others but so quick to get hurt, angry and defensive. Checking in is easiest when done at the moment and not allowing issues to build. If you were offensive at any time, checking in by the offended allows you time to clarify. This is effective communication. What happened during your visit was an example of very poor communication because people did not check in. We all need to gain these skills or risk repeated failed relationships. Now that it has gone this far, take time to let everyone cool off and gain perspective. Don’t even rush things due to the holidays. When you start to feel differently and miss your sweet son, he is likely feeling the same about you and even regretting his words. As the mother, you should reach out at that time. In a safe and small way. Tell him you were so hurt, confused and sad and how much you miss him. Offer a personal meeting or call to discuss what went wrong. Be open to accepting some responsibility but not compromising your dignity. It’s worth the risk versus the inevitability of this relationship eroding further. Blame is useless here as this is a lose lose situation. Turn it back into win win. I could not bear to lose my son and I doubt you can either. He needs you.

Yogatyme

While I agree w all the rational thinking, his mother has CANCER & that trumps any bullshit he’s going through. Sorry, he needs to grow a pair, stand up to the wife (if she’s driving this stupid train) and find some compassion and comfort for his mom. You know what they say about karma....

TB90

Yogatyme: Unfortunately having cancer does not give us any advantages in life. Trump only exists in card games. Or in American politics. Jj. In fact, his mothers cancer adds to his stress and issues. I am very aware of how my cancer dx affects my adult son. I will always be the mother in this relationship. No matter what, I always have a role to guide and teach my son. To help him become a better man. My mother gave me the greatest gift on her deathbed. We are always learning from our parents. A pair he already has. Understanding is what he needs. And it’s only too late if we give up. It’s ok to be really angry and pissed. For awhile. MountainMia: I hear you trying so hard to understand. You get that your son has been through so much. I get that you have too. Just take the time you need. You deserve a break from your son’s apparent selfishness.

Yogatyme

TB90, I hear you and respect your opinion, we just disagree.

TB90

Ditto Yoga.

Beesie

TB90, I don't know. Of course there will always be elements of the parent-child relationship that remain, but when kids are adults, they should be expected to act like adults. They should not expect to be coddled or expect to get their way because they are the child and the other party is the parent. Both are adults. The onus should not only be on the parent to maintain and smooth out the relationship. And just because the person who is being an unreasonable @$s is your child shouldn't mean that you have to put up with it or have to be the one to fix the relationship.

A parent-child relationship is always unique, but when the child is grown up, it becomes a relationship between two adults.

As you describe your relationship with your mother, I would say you were very lucky. Not everyone is. But it sounds like your son is lucky too.

MountainMia

To everyone -- please don't argue about who is right and who is wrong, since none of us, including me, actually know. All I really know is that he told us not to contact him, and I told him we'll honor his request. We will do that.

Until he decides to get in touch, I will wait.

Thanks to everyone for your comments and kindness, and your concern on my behalf. I appreciate it. Sympathy and empathy is helpful. Advice to me, on how to change how I think about this, might be helpful. But advice as to how I deal with him isn't, because I am not and won't be dealing with him until he is ready.

Thank you again.

TB90

I have way too much time tonight because I am stuck in a hotel room. Sorry for posting so much. I do believe in the role of a parent regardless of the age of the adult child. I believe in the role of Elders in our Indigenous communities. If we are to respect aging in our communities, our aged need to accept the role as teachers and leaders. At 18, youth do not suddenly become wise and considerate. Especially in this decade. Our roles as parents, Elders and role models are more important today than ever before. I am very worried about the state of our “youth”. As for the relationship with my mother, I was far from fortunate. Only when she was dying was she able to reach out. My point is, it is never too late. And our role as parents is never over

santabarbarian

MM wise to give it some breathing space. Hope you get a positive change when the time is ripe.

MinusTwo

for TB90 - A last thought from my experience - if I or most of my friends tries to communicate regularly with our grown children, they resent the hell out of us butting into their lives and asking personal questions. I felt the same way about my Mother wanting us to call every week and talk about all the little details of life. I felt guilty about hating it for 40 years.

And who says it's the DIL anyway? She may be an angel in disguise.

Right on Mountain Mia !!! You know what you're doing. Eventually he'll get over himself & get in touch. You'll hurt in the meantime but you are giving the space he demanded.

Yogatyme

MountainMia, you are absolutely right. IMO your honoring your sons request for no contact is both respectful and kind. I am so sorry for this happening and hope with time he comes around. In the meantime, focusing on things you have control over can be helpful. Sorry for my previous rant.....just struck me the wrong way.

TB90

MM: I hope it all works out for you. Posting on BCO provides support, but also advise. Sometimes it is wise to leave for awhile. Sorry if it felt like arguing. I never felt that way. Minus: I have to clarify as you interpreted what I said inaccurately. A great example of what I was trying to say. It is so easy to happen. I was not suggesting we interfere in others lives. My point was we clarify communication at the point something feels wrong. It is not intrusive. It is like”were you suggesting I was insensitive to your feelings just now?” And they respond, “It did hurt when you said that.” And then you discuss it instead of leaving feeling upset.

Night all. I hope to get out of here soon. And hope everyone can work towards resolution and reconciliation. Hope our youth mature and give back to those who have given them so much.