B17 vitamin

DDOL

God Evening Ladies 

Question ? I have been on the computer the past 2 days looking into this B17 vitamin  .( also called Laetrile ) Many people did say it can cure cancer but the USA did band it Mexico has-been useing it for years. Also along with B17 apricot kernels / a lot of vitamins 

Does anyone know any thing about  this ? 

Praying  

Moderators

DDOL here's what the main Breastcancer.org site has to say about amygdalin, also known as laetrile, vitamin B17, apricot pits. Included at the link is this:

Are there any risks? Amygdalin is converted into
cyanide and other toxic enzymes. Oral doses of amygdalin have led to
cyanide poisoning, coma, and death.

What does the research show?
There is no evidence that amygdalin kills cancer cells or reduces the
risk of the cancer coming back. Amygdalin is not recommended for people
with breast cancer.

new_direction

The problem is a lot of alternative routes stay unexplored and therefore never can be recommended. What's strange is the lack of curiosity when it comes to studying many alternative treatment options.

I can't add to the subject about b17 but I've just become so sceptic to this whole "we can't recommend anything" and it leaves me thinking there must be some truth to some of it since medical science ought to be curious and explore these things  instead of just dismissing them.

Medical marijuana is legal in the Netherlands among other countries. My country, Denmark, will not allow it until science back it's effect up in humans. How the hell can it be so difficult to conduct a study when people all over the world are already taking it?? Just one example.

It just angers me because so many lives are at stake and the progress seems so slow.

leggo

I don't know anything about B17 either, but I couldn't agree more. It's like all minds close when it comes to exploring cheaper, safer alternatives. I am shocked to find out that medical marijuana has not been approved in Denmark. I often sit back and wonder if maybe other places are so slow in approving it because some people have a tendancy to abuse it. Often you hear of people getting prescribed marijuana for the dumbest things, by sketchy doctors, which just turns into an excuse to sit around getting high all day. In turn, the medical community gets jaded and then it's difficult to put it into the hands of people who really need it. It's a stupid vicious circle. It makes me angry too. 

DDOL, I hope some other members familiar with B17 come along with some information for you.

Momine

B17 (which is not actually a vitamin)/laetrile is one of the few alternative treatments that has actually been investigated a fair bit (I think in the 70s). It was not pursued further by research, because initial research showed it to be useless.

I am reading The Emperor of all Maladies, which is basically a history of cancer and its treatment. I highly recommend it. It is extremely well written and informative. You don't have to read very far into the book to discover that early modern cancer research tried out 10s of thousands different plant extracts and chemicals to find something that might work.

new_direction

My point is that alternative routes are not pursued enough to be conclusive. Much can not be recommended because of lack of evidence, not because evidence proves it to be ineffective.

http://summaries.cochrane.org/CD005476/laetrile-treatment-for-cancer

Just looked that book up momine and it does look interesting.

Momine

Newdirection, that may be true for many substances, but in the case of laetrile it was actually studied. As your own link says:

"This systematic review found that there is no reliable evidence for the alleged effects of laetrile or amygdalin for curative effects in cancer patients."

Laetrile was tested in a double-blind mouse study at Sloan-Kettering in the 70s. It was found to have no effect. It was apparently also tried on people in the 80s and again showed no effect. In addition to this, it can also be toxic, even fatal. This is one substance where there is evidence, all of which suggests that one should leave it alone.

new_direction

It concludes that there is not reliable evidence of the effects of b17 because none of the articles met inclusion criteria. Again, not disproved, just lack of evidence.

"Main results: 
We located over 200 references, 63 were evaluated in the original review and an additional 6 in this update. However, we did not identify any studies that met our inclusion criteria.

Authors' conclusions: 

The claims that laetrile or amygdalin have beneficial effects for cancer patients are not currently supported by sound clinical data. There is a considerable risk of serious adverse effects from cyanide poisoning after laetrile or amygdalin, especially after oral ingestion. The risk–benefit balance of laetrile or amygdalin as a treatment for cancer is therefore unambiguously negative."

bluepearl

I am with new_direction!

Momine

That is because the drug proved both toxic and ineffective in preliminary studies (mice and stage IV, most likely, patients) so that there was no basis for moving to a large controlled trial of laetrile as a drug. 

If I tell you that spaghetti will cure cancer and you then feed cancerous mice spaghetti with no effect and follow up with feeding cancer patients spaghetti with no results (other than weight gain perhaps), would you then give me a grant to treat actual patients in a large controlled study? Would it be fair to the people in the laetrile arm of the study, given that there was no basis for believing that it might do them any good, but there was evidence that they might suffer cyanide poisoning?

I am asking earnestly here, not trying to be snarky or argumentative. I would really like to understand what it is people think ought to happen in a case like this and how they think it should be carried out.

new_direction

If mice studies should be followed up in humans if proven effective I still wonder why it takes so long to carry out futher studies regarding other substances, for example medical marijuana.

This feeling of turning backs on potential benefits and the slow progress. Its enough for me to conclude research is not carried out to help people as the main cause. It's saddening.

Momine

New, I am not sure I follow. I have not followed the marijuana thing at all. Have mice studies been done on marijuana as cancer treatment? 

new_direction

I saw a program about medical marijuana the other day. What's funny is the way the Danish board of Health was quick to point out all the  "dangers" when interviews with a Dutch Company manufacturing the product had had no reports of serious side effects.

Of course there is no evidence when noone wants to look for it.

And I guess the chemo side effects somehow did not frighten them enough not to do the research about that... Please don't tell me that's not strange?

I get this terrible feeling. I don't want to use the Word mass murder but somehow that's the consequence of the present situation, a great number of deaths that you feel could be avoided sooner than it ends up being.

Momine

Marijuana has been studied for use against the SEs of chemo. I don't know if any studies are underway for using it as an actual treatment. I don't know anything about it, so I don't know what the basis is for the idea that it might have anti-cancer effects.

When chemo was "invented," there were no "studies" at first. The doctors were basically experimenting on patients. The first patients were children with leukemia. At the time, there was no treatment at all for leukemia (since you can't operate against leukemia), so kids just died. The doctors were very well aware of the toxicity of the treatment, but it beat the alternative. As experience has progressed and proper studies have been carried out, doctors have become better at lowering the SEs.

Having an effective treatment is a catch-22 of sorts. Back when there was no treatment, docs could pretty much try anything on patients, in the hope that it would do something. Once you have an effective treatment, it becomes much more difficult, because it would be unethical to test an unknown treatment on people for whom there is an established and proven treatment. That is why new cancer drugs that show real promise are usually tested on stage IV patients.

MusicLover

ddol, Have you done a search on laetrile or apricot kernels on this website?  I have noticed that some women use naturopaths and they some times prescribe them.  I believe that it is also contained in almonds, so the strange thing is that I have never heard anyone say not eat too many almonds or you could die of poisoning.  I bought a bag of apricot kernels on the web and it says to not have more than 8 a day.  Do I think that they are going to cure me? absolutely not but it makes me feel a little bit better mentally to know that I am trying to do something to help my situation.  Good luck.

Momine

Music lover, there is only cyanide in bitter almonds. 

DDOL

Thank you so very much for each and everyone's option . I was hoping some where some one would say ((( yes they know of someone' that did try this B 17 and it did work )))) But I always wonder why they have a shots for polio / flu / can't they find something that insted of chemo that seems to be so very hard on our body's : just put a few needles into the area and Kill the cancer that's in that  area I don't know but seem's to be upsetting so many things out there I pray every moment that there will be something one day .

Thank you Ladies :-).   A lot of hugs to all

Blessing 

Momine

DDOL, I think every single cancer patient in the world can get behind that prayer.

AnnAlive

DDOL, I am someone who tried B17 in a big way, and it did not work. You see my diagnosis in the signature, for which I had conventional treatment, but I had biopsy-diagnosed DCIS three years before that and went to an alternative doctor who gave me a series of high dose Vit C + Vit B17 intravenous treatments (20 of them over 10 weeks) and I also took B17 tablets for two more years. Thermograms showed I was clear, no inflammation, and this doctor didn't approve of mammograms. I began to have breast skin symptoms that led me to get diagnostic tests that indicated IDC stage IIIc. It was as if I had never had any treatment, and there was a spiculated mass at the exact location of the DCIS biopsy marker. Not a recurrence, but neglect of DCIS that grew to become invasive. I no longer trust thermograms either -- showed no inflammation even at stage III. I did not return to that doctor.

Momine

Ann, thanks so much for posting, although I sincerely wish the stuff had worked (fellow stage 3).

rafitamia

Hi to everyone......mom was given the B-17, (apricot pits), which I came home and looked up.  In reading this info back around April 2007, or so, I read that it was from the apricot, and the nutritionist had said for mom to take 20 of them, and I thought that was too much, and so did mom.  What I found out was that taking that many would mess with your memory.  When I told mom this; we ha lowered them to 5 a day only.  After that info, mom said, "I don't want my memory messed with", so mom stopped them.  What I could not understand is why then at the cancer treatment center they used it as laetrile, yet they claim they didn't agree with alternative medicine?  So mom just stopped, with the so called Vitamin B-17.  That is what we learned about it DDOL.

Momine

Rafitamia, at which cancer center and where was your mother given laetrile? That sounds quite strange.

DDOL

thank you ladies just was wondering why they say B -17 will be the furture cure.  ((( hugs ))))) to all 

curveball

DDOL asked "why they say B-17 will be the future cure".

ummm, could it possibly be because "they" want to sell you B-17? Or it could be "they" are just sincerely mistaken about it. Either way, why would you listen to what "they" say about an unproven treatment that can cause cyanide poisoning? Oh, and by the way, it's illegal, at least in the US.

Momine

DDOL, snake oil salesmen have been saying that for centuries, perhaps even millennia. I fervently wish that we get a cure one day, but it seems pretty certain that B17 is not going to be it. 

Unfortunately, these day snake oil salesmen do not need to drag a cart from town to town in the Wild West. All they have to do is set up a web site. There is an awful lot of false and misleading info about cancer treatment floating around the internet. Red flags to look for are: 

1. Any talk of "cure." There is no cure, currently, for cancer (although a few cancers have very high total remission rates with conventional treatment, like childhood leukemia, for example). 

2. Claims that the remedy cures a long list of ills, often including cancer and autism, but also commonly fibro, arthritis etc.

3. Warnings that any attempt of conventional treatment will prevent the "magical" cure from working.

A few of the big snake oil sites are (there are many others): 

Cancer Active: http://canceractive.com/

Mike Adams: http://www.naturalnews.com/

Dr. Mercola: http://www.mercola.com/

Chris Beat Cancer: http://www.chrisbeatcancer.com/

Rick Simpson: [several sites promoting Phoenix Tears or Rick Simpson oil] 

Lorraine Day: http://www.drday.com/

Gerson: http://gerson.org/gerpress/

Dr. Brownstein: http://www.drbrownstein.com/Iodine-Why-You-Need-I...

Woodylb

just a note Marijuana for medicinal use, is only in use most of the times for people who are terminally ill and with a lot of pain, then a a later stage the us of morphine is quite frequent. These meds are not used to cure but they ar eused as a part of palliative treatments. 

I totally agrre with you Momine, you do not test meds on humans unless they are clinically proven to be effective. It would be unfair for people and down right cruel. There are a lot of claims out there of plants curing cancer among them , lemon, graviola, aspergus, and people are actually follwing these remedies and are ending up dying. When i first got dxd back in 2011, i was seaching the net like crazy to try and understand my disease and feel that i am actually contributing to something. I turned up on a mail written by a stricken husband whose wife refused tradtional treatment except for surgery, and went to a alternative medicine and was treated by lemon in high dose and serum of lemon and i don't what else. The guy was mad she ended up dying much faster than she was supposed to , and there were law suits envolved. It broke my heart, that there are some people who have a clear conscience telling sick people " i will cure you" when they don't have a shred of evidence that it actually does anything. The first thing my doctor told when i first started my treatment is, please do not take any supplements without asking me because it may effect your treatments and there is a lot out there without any researches to back up the claim. He said if you want after you finish treatment and you want to strengthen yourself anything you want to take you let me know first. I respect that what is the use of going though hell to get better if you counter effect it by ignorance. Everyone is in for the money nothing less nothing more. Of course this is my opinion and abide by it for myself. The choice is always ours. If i ever decide to go the other way the i would stop completley all the meds i am taking. 

Lily55

a lady i know was diagnosed terminal (secondary brain cancer) over ten years ago - she stopped chemo and swears by apricot kernels, she is here and living well now......

I dont agree canceractive.com is snake oil site as he refers to solid research

Momine

Lily, unfortunately the canceractive guy is a snake oil salesman. The site is mainly there to recruit customers for his supplement business. The owner of the site, Chris Woollams,  presents a lot of research, but he also twists, overstates and misinterprets said research. If you search on his name, you will find lots of blogs explaining his schtick.

Momine

Lily, PS, I am delighted that your friend is trucking on. Chances are that it is simply luck and not apricot kernels.

A friend of mine was DXed about 2 years ago with a nasty kind of brain cancer (impossible to operate effectively) that had already metastasized. The docs gave him max 18 months. He had surgery, but no other treatment. 18 months later he was still alive and feeling fine. He does still have stage 4 cancer, but for the time being it is not progressing, nor causing him trouble. It happens, and the docs only have stats to go by. Few people fall right on the average.

lightandwind

Woodyb, if the meds were effective, people would probably not be trying (testing) so many other alternatives.

Momine, I don't use many of those protocols, but trying to discredit something by calling it "snake oil" does not prove anything, as you are unable to assert with any certainty whatsoever that no one has benefited from any of them. Too many deaths from relying soley on conventional choices is all the proof that I need. I understand that medicines are getting better, but they too often are still not saving lives. That is an absolute. Just because someone else is unwilling to try something that I try, it does not mean that what I am trying is snake oil.  I really don't understand how you can talk about people selling and profiting off of products, and then failing to see how the $250 billion per year cancer industry has failed us.    

Luckily, it is each person's own choice what method, medicine or
supplement they decide to put their faith in, as we have to live with
those choices. I would not be okay with making the choices of people who
aren't me. For me, I saw clearly that putting faith in to conventional
only would likely lead me to a quicker death from cancer. I could not
coerce myself into believing otherwise, so I researched, so I could decide for myself what to do. That's just me.

 

Momine

Light, I am not trying to discredit anything, just calling it what it is. We have been over this before, and I see no reason to repeat it. It is my informed opinion that the sites listed are selling and/or promoting snake oil. Some do have real and useful info lurking in the corners, and Chris Beat Cancer has, for example, lots of good ideas about how to eat healthy. 

Also, anecdote is not proof of anything. If someone got better while eating a spaghetti diet, then the person probably would have gotten better even without the spaghetti diet.