Naturopathic action plan for bones

Momine

Omaz, thank for the link. I ended up going through google, because medscape requires subscription unfortunately (which is very annoying).

Omaz

Momine - I think I signed up for free a couple years ago - https://profreg.medscape.com/px/registration.do

Anonymous

Can't remember who posted that she lowered her Vitamin D3 from 5,000 ius daily.  I have to take 8,000 VitD3 daily to get my blood level up to 63.  FEEL SO MUCH BETTER when it's above 50.  Can't even describe what a difference in makes in my sense of well being.  Urge all to get their Vitamin D blood levels checked AND GET THE RESULTS in print - do not accept just "normal" - as most labs still start the range at 30 - which most good docs now consider very low.

I am in year 6 of Arimidex - and bone density is "normal" a/o last bone density scan last month.  I get them ever 2 years.  My docs say GENETICS has a tremendous amount to do with bone density.  I take ALL the supplements mentioned - AND

get my vitamin D3 oil in capsules made with BRAN OIL.  There are many not with soy.  ALso use the VitaminD3 drops - someone on this board suggested that, and they're easy to use.

Momine

Omaz, thanks! I thought you had to be a medico to register.

Momine

Does anyone know what, if any, the downsides of taking strontium are?

Also, zometa, prolia etc are thought to protect against bone mets. However, does anyone know if  that protective effect is simply a result of increased bone mass or if it is something different as well?

I would really like to avoid those drugs. The more I read about them, the more I don't like them. But, on the other hand, if alternative bone building methods would leve me more vulnerable to bone mets, I might reconsider.

suegr8

Sunflowers - Let me second the motion for getting the bloodwork done for Vit D.

  I take 2,000 Vit D3.  Got copy of my results today& I found out that I'm "insufficient".  Now with osteopenia diagnosed, I have to do the repletion prescription  of 50,000 for 6 weeks.  Better to know the devil I guess - can't absorb calcium if vit d is down.

Nutritionist is checking my Strontium use to see if it OK with the repletion course of action.

cheers

Anonymous

suegr8

do some research on the VALUE of the prescription 50,000 ius - I think it's D2 - NOT D3 - and there have been many discussions about whether it's better to take a larger dose of D3 - it's OTC and you don't need prescription.

Make sure to get it in liquid form, or in RICE BRAN OIL - not the soy oil the cheaper D3's are made with.  good luck.

I feel SO much better with my D3 blood levels in the 60's than when it was at 17.

Anonymous

Sunflower, when mine was really low, my doc put me on the 50,000 weekly dose also. His comment was d3 is better, but take the d2 to get the count up faster and then switch over to d3. That's what I followed and now just take the d3. So far, so good.



Momine...one big issue with strontium is that it will give a false high level reading on the density test. You have to tell the radiologist, and even then most don't know how to calculate for the adjustment.

Momine

Fluffqueen, thanks and good to know. How about SEs, impact on kidneys or other organs, anyone know?

Anonymous

fluffqueen

really good to hear what your doc says.  I hadn't heard it before - sounds ver sensible.  I am still so shocked at how LOW so many of us are when we first have Vitamin D blood tests.  Wish it was more routine, esp. for bc survivors, as it is to have cholesterol tested.  Also I have found it is VERY IMPORTANT to get the results in print.  So many docs accept much lower values than my oncologists suggested ( 50 or above) for me.

Also re: bone density.  Prunes.  We were talking about this ages ago on the AI SE thread, I checked it out online, and there have been some interesting clinical trials showing effectiveness in supporting bone health.  I don't know how much it effects my own situation, as I take so many other supplements, but figure it can't hurt, and I LIKE them.

Omaz

Oh wow, I didn't know that the D2 would get the blood levels up faster - I have been hovering in the low 30's for a year and taking D3 daily.  I am going to try some D2 - anyone have a brand suggestion?

SpecialK

omaz - I think you can only get vit D2 by prescription, but check this out:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15531486

Omaz

SpecialK - Sounds like D3 is better than D2 if I read the article right.  

MelissaDallas

Omaz, they aren't talking about over the counter D2. They are talking about the very high dose prescription that is generally given for a short period of time. The prescription form is D2. When my D level was 17 they gave me the 50k dose of RX D2 once a week for 6 weeks, then OTC D3.

MENA1954

suegr8, you cannot mix strontium with calcium!   I had to return the one that I previously bought which by the sound of it,  was probably like the one you are using.  I use one that is JUST STRONTIUM and on the bottle it says " for optimal absorption take it on empty stomach and at least 2 hrs. apart from calcium, magnesium or antiacids. " 

It seems that if taken together they basically cancel each other out!  Besides, did you check the dosage of the strontium in the one you are taking?  640mg is the least amount to take for it to work.

Mena

suegr8

Hi Mena

I agree with what you mention about strontium & calcium.  I take my strontium in the middle of the night!  The dosage is as you say.  

Hi MDall   Your prescription of D is like mine will be.  When my level comes up I hope to resume otc D3 & reduce my intake of calcium. 

Hi SpecialK   thanks for the article!

Hi Queen  It seems that the Vit D levels have different lab scales.  Mine was in the 'low' range of 34 - 75 when I tested at 68.  Just happy to get it tested and know that repletion is starting soon.  and I'll remember to let the DEXA scan tech note my use of strontium.  I can almost feel my spinal health reporting...I'm back to weight training - did 115lb back squats this morning at the gym along with skipping and thrusters.  Then did an hour of deepwater aquabics.  So, hope to keep the osteo at bay for a looong time!

I like prunes too!

cheers

Anonymous

omaz

I had to take 8,000 ius D3 daily to get my level up to 63.

Got it to 48 with 6,000ius D3 a day.

ALWAYS ALWAYS check with your doctor, and make sure the blood testing is ACCURATE -one of mine was off the walls wrong. 

Omaz

Thanks Melissa - I missed that!  

Sunflowers - They have been checking my blood every 3 months for a year and I started at 31, then 33, then 36 and then 38 I think, I have the check the last one.  I might have a couple wrong but I know I haven't made it to 40 ever!

I love prunes and I heard they were good for the bones but then I heard they weren't good for women who had estrogen positive tumors because they had some estrogenic activity.  Anyone else heard that?

Momine

Omaz, don't know about estrogen-action from prunes, but they do have a lot of sugar. They also have a lot of magnesium, which may be why they are helpful. Thanks to something you posted, I started a magnesium supplement.

Anonymous

Omaz, don't give up - I started at 17.

Omaz

Thanks Sunflowers!

Momine - I also have been taking the magnesium citrate.

I have been sticking with the yoga since I joined that study.  I am getting better at it.  Some of my balance on one side is wobbly but I feel like I am improving.  I am not very yogaish though, i am usually listening to a movie or program while I do the moves! In all they take about 15-20 minutes.

Momine

Omaz, I am not very yogaish either, lol. I have tried yoga a few times, but always end up just lifting weights instead. I find weights relaxing.

Omaz

momine - I lift free weights too (listening to a movie or a program!) - that is my favorite!

MichyLL

Ok so I have been in this battle with breast cancer stage 2 since 5/23/12. I was fortunate because While yes I had a bilateral mastectomy, I did not need chemotherapy or radiation.vie had some complications with having a severe allergic reaction to Tamoxifen and now need to have my silicone gel implants removed do to possible allergic reaction and severe pain.



With all that said, I am on femara with lupron shots every three months and will possibly be having Zometa infusion 1/18/13. I say possibly because my doctor scheduled me for it then told me to go home do my research and make a decision for myself. I've done so much reading it's crazy and STILL I'm confused on what to do.



So I'm here because the day is soon approaching and I respect this forum and you ladies so much I REALLY need and want to hear what you think.



Should I do Zometa Infusion ?? Would you??

LtotheK

I've posted on this before, there are studies on prunes encouraging cancer growth.  Some nutritionists do not recommend them for cancer survivors.  My bone scan was improved after a year on Fosamax, weight training, vitamin D improvement. At 2,000 units of D, I end up in the low 30s.  I have to do at least 5,000 to get it up where I want it, which ideally is over 50. I agree, I feel 1000x better with my D over 17, which is where it was at diagnosis.  I even look better, and am less chronically tired.  So sad to think there is even a shadow of a possibility it may have prevented my cancer had I known.

Regarding strontium, there is a lot of mixed reports on its real impact on bones.  Some studies indicate it doesn't build good quality bone any better than the bios.  In any case, I am really looking forward to coming off Fosamax in a couple of years.  I take it so they don't push Prolia later.  I'm so young that I wasn't willing to go totally rogue on my care.

Momine

LtotheK, why are you against the prolia? I ask because my onc wants me on it, and I am on the fence. What stage was your cancer?

LtotheK

Hi Momine, I was Stage 1, grade 3 ER+. (no nodes) I was 39 at diagnosis. Osteoporosis in the spine, thanks to chemo I'm suspecting.

Prolia is a newer drug. Fosamax may not be what we want it to be, but it's time-tested--been around since my granny started needing it!  There are also some odd side effects, like risk of certain types of infections, and my doctor indicated it wasn't his first choice if I didn't need it for exactly these reasons. However, I've gotten less strident having done very well on Fosamax.  It is not one size fits all in this game, and I'm so thrilled not to have my bones get any worse that I wouldn't criticize the drug. 

If I were in your shoes, I would get a second opinion, and then go for it!

Momine

LtotheK, Thanks very much. The newness does concern me. I would hate to beat the cancer only to find out 5 or 10 years down the road that I have some horrible problem from Prolia. On the other hand, it does look promising as a preventer of bone mets.

GrandmaV

Hi everyone,

I'm taking strontium Citrate 680mg, K2 (menatetrenone also known as MK4) 5,000 mcg, calcium citrate 500mg that also has Magnesium 80mg, zinc 7.5mg, copper 1 mg, manganese 1mg, and D3 250 IU, also taking D3 2,000IU.  I'm also in a clinical trial for omega 3 fish oil taking 6grams a day (don't know if it's real or placebo).  Just got some Magnesium 200mg but haven't started it yet. 

They're using strontium ranelate for osteoporosis in Europe, but it hasn't been approved in the U.S.  The ranelate is a man made synthetic salt the pharmaceutical company made so they could patent strontium, but the evidence shows its the strontium that increases bone density not the ranelate.  Strontium citrate, or strontium carbonate should work the same.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16856092 

I found this article interesting on K2:

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2008/mar2008_Protecting-Bone-And-Arterial-Health-With-Vitamin-K2_01.htm

also this for exercises:

http://www.osteopenia3.com/bone-density-exercises.html 

suegr8

Thanks GrandmaV for posting.  I like the info on osteopenia3 too.  I swear I feel more 'bone dense" now that my Vit D deficiency is being repleted by prescription.  Yoga is helping too.  Found out today from LE therapist how to manage prevention.  January is ending on positive notes.  Bring on the Groundhog!

cheers