Naturopathic action plan for bones

LtotheK

Be careful of Vitamin C if you are taking Tamoxifen.  Also, chemo has a negative effect on bones, it is a concern, particularly for younger/pre-meno women.

I was osteoporotic in the spine, osteopenic in the hip last year.  I have had wonderful improvement in the spine, just shy of osteopenic.  I lift weights religiously 3x a week, take D, calcium, and Fosamax (only agreed to this so they don't push Prolia later).  I tried yoga for osteoporosis.  Got the Kindle version.  I won't join the study, as unfortunately, Tamoxifen has given me a tricky back, and a number of the poses, like forward bends, really mess me up.

Omaz

LtotheK - What is the trouble with vitamin c and tamoxifen?  Great to hear that your bones improved!  

LtotheK

There is concern vitamin C can render chemotherapeutic agents less effective.  My doctor told me to avoid anything over 100% RDA, with the exception of D. She says there will never be enough study on all the possible contraindications with Tamoxifen.  For me, I'm putting too much on the line taking the drug to have it rendered less effective!  I do know some studies indicate fish oil actually is a benefit on Tamox.

Momine

LtotheK, what is the advantage of fosamax over prolia? My onc has been pushing prolia on me.

Omaz

LtotheK - on the dvd for the yoga study they don't include any forward bends.  They also have 3 versions of all the poses - regular, for those with osteopenia and for those with osteoporosis.  Just wanted to let you know.

LtotheK

Omaz, thanks for letting me know about that.  I got the book on my Kindle.  It's excellent, but I skip the bends that aggravate my back.  Knowing the DVD doesn't have forward bends is very helpful, thank you!

Momine, from what I understand, Fosomax is a first line drug used in earlier, or less critical stages of osteoporosis.  Prolia has some very questionable side effects, and of course, Fosomax is a time-tested drug.  However, based on a lot of research, I'm convinced these drugs bulk up the bone scans, but don't actually do what is needed to build real integrity of bone.  As I mentioned, I agreed to Fosomax to ensure results so they wouldn't recommend Prolia later.  I think my doctor was waiting for my thyroid and other blood panels to make a final decision, with T and...is it Z? scores, which measure relative risk in two different ways.  Some of these drugs work better in certain parts of the body.  Fosomax is particularly good for the spine.  I would probably get a second opinion on Prolia, I'm suspicious of it as it's so new, and seems pretty hard core.

Prolia may be a good choice for some, but I was pretty flipped out when it was even mentioned during my initial visit.  Then again, it's not every day of the week a 42 year old shows up with osteoporosis in the spine.

LtotheK

Talk about passive aggressive, I spelled Fosamax wrong thrice in the last post

suegr8

have added Strontium and vit K2 as of today to my Calcium and Vit D.  seems like I'll have to set my alarm for 4am in order to take the strontium "on an empty stomach" and to not interfere with the other supps + prescribed tamox

the health food store is getting in bulk organic prunes soon

I'm becoming like family...

cheers

LtotheK

Just wanted to put out there that if you search prunes on these boards, you'll find there is question about cancer survivors taking them.  The insulin like growth factor is thought to be problematic.

Omaz

Ahh shoot, really?  I heard they were good for bones and I like them a lot.  LtotheK - If you find out anything bad about coffee just don't tell us!!

LtotheK

Omaz, seriously!!!  I tell you what, they are going to have to pry my morning coffee out of my hands.  And furthermore, I'm NOT giving up a craft beer about 1x a week, darn it!!!

Momine

LtotheK, thanks so much for the low-down on those drugs. My impression is the same as yours, that they make the scans look better, but may not otherwise help much. My surgeon likes zometa, because he thinks it may prevent bone mets, but does not think my bone loss is extensive enough to warrant it.

What are the questionable side effects from the Prolia?

In my case, there is not yet osteoporosis. I have normal bone mass (so far) on the hip, but osteopenia (83%) on the spine. My onc wants to start the drugs to prevent osteoporosis. I am a bit dubious about the benefits, and really not interested in more weird SEs. Chemo was plenty  for me.

LtotheK

Hi nominee check out the clinical trial posts today on vitamin d. Seems there is a connection with zometa but I didn't quite understand what. I don't know your profile but if you don't have osteoporosis I am wondering why they are recommending treatment. Prolia has a risk of certain kinds of infection and lowered immunity I believe. Blythe Fanned is the new spokesmodel and the ad is everywhere I am sure you could find it. It lists side effects.

LtotheK

Sorry my spell check is doing weird things to User names.

cfdr

Coffee is loaded with antioxidants, and caffeine is also good for asthma. I'm reading the book Your Brain After Chemo, and the authors recommend coffee (and milk. and alcohol!) for chemo brain. I have tried to give up coffee several times in my life, and always felt WORSE. Never again! They will have to pry my coffee cup out of my cold dead hands.

I have read that the best bone strengthening exercise is jumping. Jumping rope, jumping jacks, or just jumping up and down.

Momine

LtotheK, thanks! My onc feels that I am still "young" and he thinks we should prevent me from getting osteoporosis in the first place, given the osteopenia on my spine. Ithink it is kinda overkill. It may also be that he hopes the prolia protects against bone mets, but he didn't say that.

LtotheK

Momine, I have not heard of Prolia for prevention of bone mets, only Zometa.  I could be wrong, but I'd ask.

Yes, jumping up and down is supposed to be great.  I try jumping rope, it...you guess it...aggravates my back.  But, I also have a trampoline, I need to use that because it is supposed to be the best.  Also great for lymphedema prevention and management!

I attribute at least some of my success to my revised diet, Vitamin D (which was in the toilet when diagnosed: 17) increase, and weight lifting.  How much, I'm not sure, but I'd like to think more than the Fosamax!

Momine

LtotheK, thanks again. I think if I were to take anything for the bone loss, I would want to go with something that might also help against cancer. 

I found the zometa and vitamin D study you mentioned. As far as I can understand, they found that the women who were helped by zometa, as in fewer mets, were post-menopausal and had adequate vitamin D. This, of course, begs the question whether the zometa did anything at all or if it were simply the D.

Omaz

Apparently magnesium is also very important for our bones

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/carolyn-dean-md-nd/bone-health_b_1540931.html

suegr8

This is sooo strange...There's a caution that jumping with 2 feet off floor at the same time is 'high impact' and to be avoided.  I've also heard that jumping is good.  so what to do?

Walked to pool this morning & did first Aquabics since July. 

Haven't had coffee in 2 days.  So far, so good (as long as you are asking me...DH might disagree) 

suegr8

thanks for this Omaz.  I added vit K2 and Strontium yesterday.  We'll see, fingers crossed!

cheers

MENA1954

suegr8 I have also started taking the Strontium and I was wondering what stenght are you taking.

Do you take just the straight  Strontium?

Mena

suegr8

Hi Mena   I have Strontium Support II at 341 mg.  Strontium from citrate in a veggi-cap style.  AOR is the brand - got it in a Canadian health food store.  Says take 2/day. 

I took first one at 4am because of not trusting my reaction possibility.  No problem, so will take the 2 caps tomorrow morning.  The call of nature wakes me mid-night, so I chose that time to take Strontium.  It says 'empty stomach' & not with calcium or Vit D. 

Sure hope I don't get more meds ... I'll never sleep. lol

Momine

Omaz, thanks for that. It sounds very sensible what this lady has to say.

Chickadee

Just my experience but I've been on Xgeva since January. No side effects to mention. And stable bone scans.



Prior to that I had been on Zometa and a year ago I went through an agonizing period of spinal fractures and one vertebral collapse. So much for Zometa. I was also on AI's throughout that period.



I'm now on Xeloda and monthly Xgeva(Prolia competitor) or denosumab as its called. I am post menopausal and it is recommended for those of us with bone mets. Anyway I am satisfied that Xgeva has stabilized my bone mess and am aware of no side effects.

Anonymous

Ltothek....my pcp wants me to take atelvia. My scan was normal, but it had dropped sine I was tested right before chemo and he wants to get started. I am resisting.



Onc says don't mess with a pill, just get the prolix shot twice a year. Se's appear to be the same as atelvia. My nurse practitioner friend was to just eat a once a year IV of reclast. You miss the gastric issues then. Problem with that is insurance wants you to take the oral stuff first and then determine you can't tolerate it before they will ok reclast as it is more expensive.

suzanneinphoenix

I could not take Boniva due to bone pain.  Could not take the Zometa IV infusion due to severe gastric symptoms and horrid muscle spasms.  Now just diagnosed with osteoporosis, and the MO wants me to start on Prolia.  I am really against something that stays in my body for 6 months!  I'm going to order the Strontium and see if that helps.  Glad I found your discussion on this, because I had never heard of it!  And if it helps, it's a lot cheaper than the Prolia..and hopefully no SE's

MENA1954

I have been taking the Strontium 750mg. for about one month. So far no S/E.....I wonder if it's working....Well I really hope it is!!!!

Mena

suegr8

strontium - I've been taking the health food store version of strontium Support as a supplement with calcium, D3, K2, prunes, good leafies etc.  No se Like Mena, hope its working.  

cheers

Omaz

I don't know very much about strontium and was reading up on it and came across this interesting article about strontium renelate compared to fosamax (alendronate).  The strontium worked signficantly better. LINK