2012 Running Thread

CLC

Isn't running wonderful?

kks_rd

Kayb, this is great news!  You may never again go back to the ol' dreadmill (unless out of desperation).  But seriously, you could run a real 5K road race (and do quite respectably too).  Awesome!

I ran in the sun and heat again today.  Didn't do too bad but my pace was somewhat slower and I needed more frequent walk breaks.  5 miles total, I''ve earned my apple pie. LOL!

goldlining

Happy 4th of July to you folks south of our border. I indulged my American husband and daughter and am too stuffed to run!

Congratulations to kayb on the first road 5k outing! 

kks_rd

Hi kayb, it's not an app exactly but I have had some success pacing myself using PodRunner podcasts.  They are organized according to BPM (beats per minute) so you can listen to ones that are faster or slower and time your steps to the beat. 

For example, my comfortable pace is somewhere around 165 BPM, so when I'm working on improving my speed I aim for ones that are 170-175 BPM.  Unfortunately, since everyone's stride length is different, it's not easy to translate that into min/mile pace - you would just need to try for yourself.

The music is kind of "techno/house" style which is not up everyone's alley.  But it can still be a useful tool when concentrating on speed.

I would think there's some kind of metronome app out there even if there's nothing specifically for running.  Of course, others on this thread might have some other suggestions!

Good luck with your new distance tomorrow. BTW, I've heard of a rule of thumb that suggests you should not increase weekly mileage by any more than 10% per week.  if the farthest you've gone until now is 3 miles, increasing to 4 miles might be a bit much.  It sounds like you're following a running plan and you're otherwise fairly active so the increase might not be as difficult for you.  Still, I encourage you to listen to your body, so slower if you need to, throw in a walk interval if you need to, do whatever you have to do to prevent injury.  Trust me, the extra mile isn't worth it if it sidelines you because you pushed it too soon.  Be careful, but that said, if you're feeling good, GO THE DISTANCE

CLC

I second Kat's caution.  I have always eased up when I felt at all fatigued (felt my body form getting sloppy).  I never had any injury, though I  had never run before the age of 43.   And I am not skinny, at 149 pounds.  So, easing up before you get injured is, imo, a very very good plan.

Also, I, too, have not increased more than about a half mile in a week. 

Wishing you a great run...

Claire

CLC

If it were me, and there was plenty of time, I would go up a half mile increment on the long run instead of leaping up a whole mile.  I never followed a training plan.  I have been running about 3 times per week, with a fast short run, a moderate run with intervals and one long run, alternating with core work, with walking or swimming squeezed in between when possible.  I have only done the "listen to your body" training plan, so I may not be the best to comment on the plan.  I do know that going by my body has been a looooong process of building up a base.  I have not rushed (I have gotten up to 7 miles as a long run in a year and a half, with a couple of month interruption for surgery).

I do think that a good rule of thumb is, if in doubt, slow it down.  It will build up either way.  The training plans I have looked at all say, if there is time, double up weeks as you go, so you build more gradually (in other words, repeat week 2 before moving onto week 3, that kind of thing). 

The bottom line, is do what feels good...:)  Otherwise, what's the point?

Well, that's my two cents anyway.  As I have said before, I am no expert...I am relatively new to running.

Happy running to you!

Claire

orangemat

The way I know the 10% rule is by total weekly mileage. So for example, if the total of all your runs for the week are 10 miles (3, 3 and 4), bumping up the 4-miler to 5 miles would be a good way to progress for the following week. Having two shorter runs and one longer one is actually a better plan than increasing the distance of each run at the same rate. And when you find that gets easy, maybe adding a 4th day of running (2-3 miles) would be an alternative to increasing your miles.

Also, don't worry about speed when you are base-building. Once you've got a solid base of miles in your "bank", only then start thinking about upping your speed. Right now it's only about time spent on your feet. That's why many newer runners will track their running by time rather than distance. Of course the 10% rule applies there just the same.

You're doing great, kayb. You're going out there, doing your miles and enjoying yourself. That's what makes someone a true runner, so much more than being super speedy and logging hundreds of miles. Good for you!

goldlining

I learned a lot from that last batch of posts. Thanks everyone!

Regarding the cadence question, I use the Wahoo dongle on my iPhone to receive heartrate from my monitor (I have the Adidas HR monitor) and from the shoe chip (I use the Nike+ chip). There is a free app from Wahoo that integrates all this while you are running. I am deaf so I don't use any music or headphones, but the app has a real time digital display that shows your steps per minute, and if you know what steps per minute you want, you can adjust to it. When I read what the elite marathoners' stride was, I tried to go that fast just to see what it felt like. I had to go to a steep hill and go small steps as fast as I could go -- and I was so afraid I was about to go ass over teakettle that I chickened out halfway down the hill. I seem to average about 75-80 steps per minute on a nice flat route of a reasonable distance. There are some choices of app screen layouts, but I can see heart rate, pace, and various other goodies. At the end of the run, I can upload it to Nike+ but it also interfaces with other tracking services like Runkeeper, MapMyFitness, Strava, or even as an Excel .csv file emailed to yourself. Next to medals, my second favourite type of positive reinforcement is looking at my graphs of past runs. 

groovygirls

I have been a slacker this week. My running partner (Bella Buttercup) broke her leg! Goldens are prone to this type of injury and she is a full figured gal and 8 years old. She is on "keep her quiet" orders and can't bear weight on the affected limb. Not as much fun without her!

Today is the day I received my diagnosis one year ago. It is also GG#2 birthday (:()

blackjack

Happy running girls....Question has anyone done Zometa infusion for osteoporosis and still run? I am in training for the Chicago marathon in Oct and my recent Dexa scan results were not so good. My onc has been pushing the Zometa. I had a fracture rib in May so now she wants me to due this. Has anyone had Zometa and still run? I don't want to compromise my running, but I need my bones to be OK too. I am very nervous about side affects. I did get her to agree to give me a half a dose infusion. I am running fine everyday, but just get tired.

Just looking for advise from the running girls. Now off to run this am before it gets too hot here.....

Stay cool and drink away....

BJ

Heidihill

I just had a full dose infusion this week. The last time before that was 2.5 years ago when I hadn't started with any kind of running yet. I was skiing, walking, hiking and biking then though. In terms of impact, maybe not that different? I am thinking of trying an isotonic sports drink because I tend to cramp up. I think in general we have to be careful about replacing whatever is lost in the sweat that our bones need to make Zometa effective (e.g., calcium, maybe magnesium). Although I exercise everyday, I don't run everyday, so this may be a different story. I did do Zumba on the same day as my recent infusion and was OK. For your very first infusion, you may feel fluish and achy. Drink LOTS of water before, during and after the infusion. Even after a year quite a bit of Zometa remains in your bones, so I would just make a habit of drinking away everyday.

Edited to add: Zometa was for my bone mets, not osteoporosis.

Belinda977

New to thread.  First run today since my surgery on 5/17.  It felt wonderful!  Had to do a combo of walking 2 minutes and then running 2 minutes for 48 minutes but I will get my 3.5 miles back!

NatsFan

On the cadence issue, our local running store had a stride clinic, where you could get a one-on-one with a team that included a foot/ankle doctor who also runs marathons, a physical therapist specializing in runner and runner injuries, and one of the store staff trained in fitting.  They got me on a treadmill for several minutes, and circled me, taking notes, and conversing.  At the end they talked about the importance of cadence, and said that I needed to shorten my stride and work towards a 180 steps per minute cadence (meaning counting every step - if you just count when the right foot hits, then it would be 90).  They said run lightly, as if your feet were not allowed to touch the ground, and to quiet my arm motion a bit.  I had minor issues with having to ice my knees and some hip pain after longer runs, and they felt that by shortening my stride and increasing my cadence, just about all my issues would be resolved.  They also gave me some different warm up stuff to do, like swinging the legs from the hips back and forth then side to side, plus some lunges.  They were right.  It took quite a few weeks to adjust to that cadence (I downloaded a free cadence app they showed me) but now I can really feel the difference.  My knees are so much better that I rarely have to ice them any more, and my hips haven't been sore in ages. Basically, it forces you to land on your whole foot lightly spreading out the force, rather than landing heavily on your heel and having the force concentrated in that small area.  

I'm a very slow runner - 11-12 minute miles for the most part, so increasing your cadence doesn't mean pushing yourself to a speed you can't keep up.  They just said to shorten my stride as much as I needed to maintain that cadence to begin with, then gradually start taking longer strides to increase speed, but always keeping to that cadence.  I've just been running for the past year, and my only events are 5Ks (and one 10K), but as a basic beginner runner I found their advice to be very very helpful to me. 

CLC

Mary...a trainer once told me to run as if I am taking baby steps.  This was within weeks of my beginning running.  I shortened up my stride, landed lightly and moved quickly.  I immediately could run much longer and my heart rate dropped about 10bpm.  It took me a while to adjust too.  I have never counted steps per minute, but I imagine that I ended up in about the same place as you.  I will be ever grateful to him for the advice. 

orangemat

Small quick steps is the way to go. At a group workout once, the coach had us run down the length of the football field, one step at each yard line, as quick as we could make it. Excellent exercise to learn what it feels like to shorten and quicken the stride.

I've also found that when I'm tired, the shorter stride with a quickened cadence is my energy-saving running mode. It takes much less effort to run this way, and so I can "rest" while I'm still running. Combine that with the slight forward lean from the ankles (ala Chi Running) and you can run quite efficiently at your "forever" pace. 

NatsFan

I have also found that the shorter strides "even out" the terrain a bit for me - steep climbs don't seem quite so tiring, and steep descents seem a lot easier on my legs.   

goldlining

Welcome Belinda977. Looking forward to reading about your runs!

Natsfan I envy you that clinic! Sounds great! There is a post-BC fitness program at a hospital uptown from me and I am going to consider getting a referral there and see what kind of sports medicine people they have. I could use some custom tailored advice. The target cadence of 90 I was going for was the left foot only (the counter is only in the one shoe) so my actual current rate of steps would be 150-160. I cannot imagine how to move fast enough to get to 180 (or 90 lefts). On the one hand, my 150-160 is easy breezy. On the other hand, man, if I could quicken that cadence, I bet I'd be faster! 

orangemat

I found my cadence got quicker once I started wearing more lightweight shoes. Also ditched the orthotics. I'd been working on my midfoot strike for many months, wearing the heavy clunker shoes, and once I switched to lighter ones, it really has become effortless. Something to think about.

CLC

I am about to get orthotics.  I have been dx with hallux rigidus.  Turns out my bunion isn't the real issue.  What should I expect?  Any advice would be welcome!

kks_rd

I am loving all the input on the cadence topic.  I have always felt like I don't have a long stride length and that my steps were always a bit shorter and faster than others (like the C25K group I ran with this spring).  I also know from my casual work with the podrunner podcasts that my usual tempo is 165-170 BPM... that is very comfortable for me.  I wonder if I use some of the faster ones with even shorter strides if that would improve things for me or not.  I am quite comfortable where I am but am always open to being MORE comfortable, haha! 

Am interested to hear what others have to say on the cadence topic. Very interesting!!

goldlining

I tried a faster cadence on the dreadmill today. (It was soupy humid outside. Foolish me, did not check if the fan was on, and suffered through the first 20 minutes of stifling air before I saw the fan, off, in my blind spot.)

I struggled with the quick steps mostly in my lungs, but that could have been the air quality and forgetting to use the blue inhaler beforehand. My heart rate was okay. 

I got up to 180 cadence (90 left feet) at times, but it was almost like I had to pull back from the hip to avoid a longer stride. I will see if I get any stiffness tomorrow. At 180, I was running 6:30/km (I guess that's ~10:30 mins/mi?) I had the belt set to 5.5 mph and a wee slope 0.5. 

The good part was that my regular stride was 170-ish while I was running. My average stride in my stats is pulled down by my walk intervals. I may get better cadence stats if I simply get back into condition so I walk less. I have really long legs - too long to wear ordinary pants, e.g., Old Navy jeans have to be the Long size - so I am also concerned about artificially short stride.

On the improvement with lightweight shoes, how light? (I can look up the weight if you can remember the shoe model.) I checked my brand. The model I currently have is 10.2 oz for the size 7 (not my size!) vs a 7 oz one that says it's for runners in the 6 to 9 minute/mile range. Interesting ratio: shoe oz ~ mins/mile! I have never tried the lighter shoes because I thought they were for lighter runners. 

kks_rd

5.5 MPH is about 10:50 min/mi.  If you divide 60 by the MPH it will give you the minutes per mile, because there's 60 minutes in an hour.

I have no idea about shoe weight, but I know I did better when I switched from cross-training shoes to actual running shoes.  I now have Brooks Adrenaline ASR 8 trail running shoes, they are a bit lighter than the GTS version (and came in better colors).  I looked it up and they are 9.9 oz.  I wear a size 9.5 wide running shoe. Yep, big feet and I give 'em lots of room especially since contending with my toenail issue.

My speed has been improving but I don't think the shoes have as much to do with it as does time elapsed since completing treatment.  I used to tell people I averaged 11:30 min/mi but now I have been consistently hovering around the 10:30 or better mark.  Woot!!!

CLC

A WOOT for Kat from here!

goldlining

Woot for Kat!

I gave more credit to the pace on my iPhone, but you're right, the belt at 5.5 ought to be 10:50. I'm not sure which is more calibrated, but the app is usually pretty close when I do a measured run. Although I was running a smaller stride than I have calibrated. However, it's the app that I have to go by when I am on the street, so I was watching it to get used to the feel of the steps and pace. I went for a walk today and found I do have a bit of stiffness in the front of the hips from pulling back on the stride. Maybe the belt needed to be faster, but I don't know if I could breathe any faster. I think I will start looking into lighter shoes though. New stuff always motivates me :-)

pat01

natsfan, that clinic sounds amazing.  Thank you for sharing the tips.  I'm still learning to run, have progressed to week 2 of C25K, still no knee problems, but am using everybodys suggestions this time around.

Woke up Friday night with a grandaddy of a calf cramp - I was able to go back to sleep, but when I got up in the morning I was limping.  Figuring it was due to running, I took sat and sunday off, but this morning I read on another forum that soemtimes a side effect of Tammi is leg cramps.  I've been on tammi for 8 months, and never experienced this side effect. 

goldlining

pat01 sometimes I have cramping when my legs WANT to run. Also when I haven't had enough milk. It may be other things, but when in doubt, I have a glass of milk and go for a run!

Adey

Still can't run...... hope I don't lose all I've accomplished.

Okay, done whining!  (c:

pat01

Oh Adey, I'm sorry you can't run.  You were progressing so great - I was very envious of your progress   But you won't lose it all, and in the meantime can you crosstrain (perhaps swimming)?

Back to running yesterday after my weekend break - calf felt fine!  Going to do a couple of more days at week 2 level, then on to week 3!

CLC

Oh, Adey...it's been almost 3 weeks!  Are you getting better?  From your posts, I gather it is your hip that hurts.  Have you sought out medical help with it yet?  I hope you get back on your legs soon!  But don't despair, once you are able to get back on those legs, you will get back quickly.  You got there once, you will get there again.  I will be thinking of you!

Well, I was at the gym yesterday for the first time in a while (kids have returned to dance, so I am there for long periods).  I decided to count my strides per minute, to see where I was in all that.  I was stunned to see it was precisely 180.   I wonder if it was just accident that I got there naturally, or if there is something particularly "right" feeling about it that I sensed it and settled into that cadence....hmmm.  Pleased as punch, though. 

In my case, I have slightly shorter than average legs.  I had the treadmill set to 1.0 incline and 6.2mph.

Happy running everyone!

goldlining

Ouch Adey -- have you been to a physiotherapist for that? Especially with your hip flaps, you may need some help. I understand that the hip flexors pick up the slack when the core is loafing. Maybe yours just decided to protest? I know I certainly did launch into running quite enthusiastically without preparing my core first, and I did pay for it in various spots. I haven't had the amazing running clinic experience, but the physio has been extremely helpful and educational for me.