Does this post make my troll look big?

thenewme

Oh wow, I can't tell you all how relieved I am!!!  I felt like I was really putting myself out there to start this post, and I'm SO glad I did ! 

At risk of sounding like a total softy, I'm so relieved to hear from so many like-minded people!

Thanks again to everyone who has posted here!  Sometimes the silence echoes in here, or is that all in my head?  LOL!

digger

thenewme,

Thanks so much for starting this thread, and I too find it fascinating fleshing out the various personalities and backgrounds of so many of us.  But what I find even more fascinating, however, is who is not posting on this thread, and then it leads me to the next question, of why?  Why aren't they telling us more about themselves?  Have they put their hands over their ears and don't want to hear what anyone else has to say if it doesn't jive with their views?  For me personally, since apparently I've been deemed a troll and a naysayer, am I then not annointed one of the natural girls?  Am I then an unnatural girl (at least call me a woman...not a girl, but that's a totally different story!)?

I guess for me, my big bugaboo is huge black and white thinking.   I don't think we should have to be either natural or unnatural, pro-establishment or anti-establishment (who is "the establishment" anyway?), for alternative or against alternative, in total agreement or a total naysayer.  That's where I believe we get in trouble, when we feel we must label people as being in one camp or another, a Democrat or a Republican, an extremel liberal or an extreme conservative, either for or against me.  I could go on, but hopefully you catch my drift.

In reflection, I think the quote in the fungal theory thread of "All truth goes through 3 stages..." is what really triggered me from the beginning, because it feels, to me, like such enormous black and white thinking. To me, no, all truth doesn't have to go through that process, and I'm not saying I know definitely what is true and what isn't, but none of us really knows (particularly when in comes to breast cancer, or any cancer for that matter!).  But to set up a line in the sand, declare your "truth" and then dare other people to prove it wrong, seems backward to me.   It's exactly the opposite of the scientific method, and basically says any theory you put out there is true until it's proven false.  Were life that simple!   

So, that, in a nutshell, is where I'm coming from.  I'm open to new ideas, thinking outside of the box, that whole gray area.  It's the extremes, the lines in the sand, that seem to rock my boat. 

Anonymous

Anonymous

Why oh why is there not a "like" button I can mark, like on facebook?!  I love this thread, the title and I agree with all of you.  I am smart, academic, question authority, love my oncologist and am interested in what I can do with diet, moderate supplements and exercise.  Rigid thinking is not for me.

Thank you for starting this thread!  It's nice to know that there are many of us!

ps - I'm a very natural woman, and of course - like all of you - very healthy, fit and YET got bc...grrrrr

edited to add: Ivorymom - you said it well, actually - I agree with everyone who has posted on this thread.  We are all so vastly different there truly is no one size fits all approach - on either side.  My decision may not really work for someone else, etc. etc. We all have to take what we know about our specific cases, work with the professionals we trust, and go from there.  One thing we can all agree on, cancer sucks.

o2bhealthy

I just wanted to pop in and say 'thank you'!  I like to explore a lot of threads, I have about 52 saved to my favorites...crazy but true!  When I was reading the posts on this thread, I recognized many of your names and just wanted to acknowledge that when I see your posts I sit up and pay attention.  I don't have a background in the medical field, research or microbiology nor am I very articulate when I post but I do appreciate the time and knowledge you all share on this board.

Hindsfeet

It is not my style to bash people, or put people down. I am uncomfortable writing what I am about to say, but feel it is necessary in defense of what is going on in these threads.

 I am horrified that such a thread exist. I would be ashamed to be a part of such a group. I would think that people with claimed intelligence would have the smarts to be wise enough to show human kindness and respect to their fellow bc sisters, even those who choose different options in therapy or an understanding of cancer. It is my philosophy that until you know all the facts, don't judge. If you know everything, please let me know, because I know very few people who are that smart. No one has a corner on the market on knowledge. Science is ever changing ...and it was just a few years back when DOCTORS  pushed Premarin. I was encouraged to take Premarin, which later was proven to cause breast cancer. If you haven't noticed... this is why Doctors and Drug companies pay high insurance rates. Science has not cured cancer, nor anyone else on the alternative site that I know, has made such claims. I can't figure out why you all are so threaten by the fungal theory discussion. No one on that thread said anti-fungal supplements or foods is going to cure cancer. Getting rid of the yeast in our bodies isn't going to hurt us...right? No one is recommending the baking soda therapy...although when naysayers come there and can't prove a point they throw in Dr. Simoncini's baking soda therapy as the reason to consider us quacks.

I would like to think that on BCO there is the freedom to discuss topics such as the fungal theory. Apparently, there are those of you who feel called to police the alternative threads. If you disagree with what is said it is your duty to try to destroy a person's character or discredit them by saying it isn't science. Some of you proclaim to be superior to the average lay person. We have no right to an opinion or to research. We must submit to whatever you degree as truth?

I have been open, and if I saw enough evidence to prove otherwise on the fungal theory, I would have listened. I give little credence to people who are rude, mean, or who bully others. I have taken Beese to heart, and she is someone I have had a lot of respect for but I am sad that she supportively sided with this group of women.

I have mentioned Juice Plus as one of the vitamins I take. I have never sold it, nor will. Since my first breast cancer, a friend sends it to me every month, for free. She is convinced it works. I don't know. It doesn't hurt. Just a few weeks ago, I heard about Juc. I haven't tried it yet. Yes, I'm excited about its claims. Because of the amount of resveratrol in it, I've ordered it. If I find that the stuff gives me more energy, and is a big boost to my immune system, I'll scream it from the mountain tops...but not here on BCO because it is illegal. I like to talk about things that work. Again, I haven't tried it YET.

To add, I've ordered products from the alternative threads that has really helped me. I am grateful for the girls, who gave me the links.

So don't judge as to why people share whatever. You don't always know their motivation.

BCO was recommended to me in Dec 2007 as a place to find support. I don't talk about this much with my friends because they know little about grades, stages and etc ... and I don't want "cancer" being the center of my conversation or for them to worry about me.  I come back to BCO around screening time for whatever reason. The fungal thread caught my attention so I hung around longer, and my mri was pushed into December. I have found a few supportive friends at BCO. They understand what I am wrestling with right now, and that means so much to me. I have a very complex situation and for me the cookie cutter approach isn't going to work. Believe me, I've wrestled with the choices that my surgeon suggested. I am so glad the oncologist I saw this week said a holistic breast surgeon might be a better fit for me. She did not mock, disagree or bullied me into conventional therapy. We are working together, and I am working with her because she is kind.

Last ... I feel that this thread is a stab in the back to certain people on the alternative thread. Why not just give names? Everyone knows who you are talking about. I hope you ladies are having fun.

MaryMeg

Add me to those so happy to find this thread.  I'm also intelligent, academic, addicted to research and very easily frustrated with unsubstantiated opinion.  I believe that my responsibility is to learn all I can and work with my doctor and other professionals, not just accept all I'm offered as truth.  (Did you know that Aloe Vera was apparently invented in case of nuclear war? I was told it on Very Good Authority!)

barry, I find it interesting that in one breath you can say that it's not your style to put people down, and in the next breath you say you'd be ashamed to be one of us (although of course you are, as a fellow poster here.)  

I think it is important that those of us who worry about the advice being given to others can have a place to say so.  This thread isn't about them, or those giving the advice, but it's a place where those of us us who would like to see a more science-based approach can say so and can talk about how the approaches we are more comfortable.

If you're not comfortable with us or this thread, I can't quite see what your point was in posting.    I hope though that you are able to find threads that work better for you or give you the support that you need, just as so many of us are getting from this thread.

Hindsfeet

MaryMeg...nice thought about not posting here...but the people whom this post is talking about is basically referring to people like myself. I have a right to defend myself. I would like it a lot if people  who visit the fungal theory thread thought as you do and would not use it to bully others who think differently than them.

Yes...I do not like to bash people...and in the next breath I said, basically, I'm uncomfortable in having to do it now...but felt a need to say what I had to say. Perhaps I need to reword that.

This thead is nothing more than a backstab.

I find it insulting to think that I do not believe in science base medicine. It is a matter of your opinion verses mine.

luv_gardening

Ha Ha, I just posted a link to purple carrot juice but I'm not suggesting it will cure anything.  I hope I don't get censored as I just love the yummy taste and it's supposedly higher in antioxidants than blackberries.

Why is everyone so serious?  I love a good debate but not when it turns personal.  Trying to discredit someone based on their spelling or grammar just shows ignorance as those with the most debilitating dyslexia may also be highly intelligent.  Spelling ability is not related to logic or intelligence. Hasn't anyone read a software manual written by the computer programmer who wrote the code?

I just love it when someone says they have a degree or experience in the research field or in biology etc.  I want to ask them tons of questions.  It's not the researchers that are at fault if their studies are not accepted for clinical trials.  That's decided by hospital boards who have access to patients and funding.  Some researchers I know spend half their time trying to get funds and it's a tough job.  

Timothy, I always pay attention to what you add to any discussion.

Barry, I doubt anyone is here due to any need to be in a troll group, they just wondered what the title was about and then took up thenewme's invitation to introduce themselves.  Or am I so naive that something's gone right over my head?    I see a few knocks about the Natural Girls thread but sheesh, there are thousands of threads on BCO.  Why would anyone worry about one small section that doesn't agree with their viewpoint?

So why am I here?  I find so much information in all threads and sections I read.  I'm an internet junkie I guess.  I'm motivated to find some information or edge that might give me an advantage over this disease which could end up killing me, and since I've finished initial treatments and medicine does not have the cure yet I'm willing to do anything that has any credibility that conforms to "my personal standards".

Hindsfeet

Shelia...hey, If you read previous posts of mine, you would know that I take Juice Plus, and  recently was introduced to juc...which was mentioned in a negative way in a previous post. A few weeks ago I first heard about juc...which thenewme believes these to be money marketing schemes. As mentioned, I don't sell Juice Plus. I haven't yet tried juc...but plan to. If you read between the lines, and palinly you can see what they are referring to someone like myself. You can use products from these types of marketing groups w/out pushing a business.

If you read the fungal threads, you should had picked up someone calling thenewme a troll. There has been a lot of unfortunate drama on that thread and this thread reads as a re-action to that thread.

So do you "more intelligent" women want your own thread to bash women like myself? Is this a troll club? I hope not.

luv_gardening

I see Barry. I didn't realise you had mentioned a product. 

We're all capable of ignoring any appeals to buy products, not that I am suggesting you did, but when the oncologist is telling us our chances of dying will increase if we don't take that chemotherapy then that's really uncomfortable. 

It seems that in another 50 to 100 years our kids will be horrified at what oncologists put us through today as researchers will have figured out that if those cancer stem cells have escaped and started to set up home at the time of surgery, then no amount of chemo or rads are going to save our lives.  So we either have progression on the horizon or not and chemo might keep it away longer but will not cure us.

Oncologists mean well and use standard of care but they are still trying to sell us something very expensive that I don't believe does what they say it does.  Unfortunately only time will prove me right or wrong but I expect I'll get roasted for saying this anyway.  It's just an opinion.  I'm not suggesting anyone stop therapy because of my opinion but just pointing out that both camps have faults.  Cancer is still mostly incurable. 

Only a few short years ago doctors believed ulcers were caused by stress as they didn't know about helicobacter pylori.

Even now people are not given enough help with dental infections even though it costs a fortune in health care when those infections cause major health problems such as heart valve and cardiovascular problems.

So I don't think anyone can honestly say that one approach is right and another is wrong.  We're all learning and we all need to keep an open mind.

We need to be gentle with our BC sisters when they get too enthusiastic with a theory and don't realise they are breaking scientific conventions or using logical fallacies.  At least they are adding to knowledge even if it's just to rule out one more theory.

lago

Fungal theory? Sorry but I never mentioned anything about fungal theory. Never even checked out the thread. I plan on staying neutral regarding my opinion on the topic.

"I am horrified that such a thread exist. I would be ashamed to be a part of such a group."
 If you don't like the company then move to another thread where you are more comfortable. We already how know you and others feel this way. That's why thenewme started this thread. We need the support of like minded people just like you.

Beesie

barry, let me explain why I have posted here and why I support this thread.  You said:

" I would think that people with claimed intelligence would have the smarts to be wise enough to show human kindness and respect to their fellow bc sisters, even those who choose different options in therapy or an understanding of cancer. " 

Yes, I agree!  I can't speak for any of the others here but my guess is that most or all of us would agree.  But here's the problem.  Most of us posting here, the small group on this board who happen to be the research geeks (that's how I see myself, anyway) are often the ones who don't get the respect.  Do you know how often I've been criticized and insulted on this board and in PMs simply because I provide links and research data to support what I say?  Many see that to be arrogance; they think that I am trying to prove that I smarter than everyone else.  From the comments I've seen from other women in this thread, it appears that I'm not alone in getting this type of criticism.  

The truth is that the reason I provide links and research data is so that others can read the materials for themselves and draw their own conclusions.  Someone might catch something that I didn't... and then I would learn something. Or someone might provide additional or different information, either supporting what I found or differing from what I found, and then I would learn something. I don't believe for a second that I am more intelligent than anyone else, nor do I believe that I have all the answers. All I have is a professional background that helps me evaluate and interpret research data. I come here to present what I've found, and to learn from others.  I've learned a lot from many of the other women in this thread and others like them on this board.

What frustrates me (and the others here, I suspect) is when research supported information that I provide (or that others provide) is ignored or shot down simply because somebody believes something different.  I'm not talking here about someone else having different research that comes to a different conclusion; I'm talking about someone having an opinion.  I've just recently posted in a thread where that's exactly what's happening.  Someone said "X". I posted and said that "Actually, the research seems to suggest Y". The discussion has continued completely ignoring "Y" and focusing on "X" simply because "X" fits better with what some people want to believe. So let's not confuse the discussion by adding real supported data, shall we?  People can choose to believe what they want but the problem comes when they try to convince others that they are right despite the fact that the data doesn't support what they believe. And the bigger problem is when newbies come in and take this stuff to heart and possibly make treatment decisions based on unsupported opinions.  Discussions about different opinions we have are good.  Discussions about different research based data are good.  But mixing opinions and research based data in the same discussion is not good.

Here's another example which I probably shouldn't bring up but it's one that really irks me.  On this board there is a lot of discussion about the fact that "Stage doesn't matter when it comes to prognosis".  Hand in hand with this discussion go comments such as "Anyone can develop mets".  "I know women with DCIS who've developed mets".  These discussions infuriate me. The reason why they infuriate me is because they may lead women with early stage BC to believe that they are just as much at risk as someone with later stage BC and therefore they should be just as fearful. Women make life-altering treatment decisions based on these beliefs. The simple fact is that while it's true that anyone can develop mets, the likelihood that this will happen to someone who is very early stage is much smaller than the risk faced by someone who has a more advanced diagnosis. Risk of mets increases with stage. Might there be some overlap across the stages? Yes, of course, but the statement remains generally true. 30 or 40 years of data supports this. Why in the world would anyone with BC want everyone diagnosed to believe that they have the same degree of risk? If someone is truly low risk, isn't that a good thing and shouldn't we be reinforcing it? Yet, on those occasions where I have dared to join discussions on this topic and have dared to suggest that stage is relevant to prognosis (sometimes providing supporting data), I've been shot down and insulted. For those who are early stage who believe that they have it "just as bad" as someone who is later stage, the facts are not what they want to hear. For those with a more advanced diagnosis who don't want to be confronted with the real risks that they face, the facts are not what they want to hear. This is a perfect example of how on this board we tend to lump scientifically backed data equally with opinions and beliefs (or we even discount/denigrate the scientifically backed data).

Knowing the facts and what you do about the facts are two different things. I hope that everyone who is early stage recognizes that although their risk of mets is low, they do still face a risk and therefore they must be diligent and take the appropriate actions.  I hope that everyone who has a more advanced diagnosis believes deep in their heart that they will be on the good side of the odds.  As I see it, we need to know the facts first and then we can decide what we will do, how we will act and what we will choose to believe.  But around here, it seems too many prefer to ignore or deny the facts.  That's true across the board and certainly in this forum. 

Sorry for using this as an opportunity to vent (and for bringing up what is a very contentious topic), but venting is sort of what this thread is about.  And that's why I posted here in support of what thenewme and others have been saying.  

kira1234

Beesie, You have provided so much knowledge during my 6 months on the site. I greatly appreciate the time you spend researching the info you provide.

crazy4carrots

Some months ago I read a report about a survey which measured people's ability to change their minds (opinions) about certain things when presented with the "facts".  The survey really related to politics, and showed that --by and large -- when presented with the "facts", their "opinions" didn't change, but actually became reinforced.  I guess most people don't like to be proven wrong.

Sometimes I see that happening here, and that's why I think it's critical that "facts" be presented whenever necessary.  I'm grateful to those of you with the necessary tools and background to ferret out the facts.  You let the facts speak for themselves.  It's up to the rest of us to determine their value to us.

1Athena1

Nothing more dangerous than a person who feels intellectually intimidated. I would probably rate that danger almost as high as a person acting in fear. Hell hath many, many more furies than a woman scorned. Beesie, you get pummeled for posting research? Sadly, too common. Apparently, people are acting out of their own insecurities about their brain power. And the anti-intellectualism taking hold of our country has emboldened many.

Thenewme: I smile and shake my head. We (you) had such a nice thread going! 

otter

thenewme's thread is still very much alive, IMHO.  There has just been so much hostility on the boards these past few days, and especially this morning.  I'm beginning to wonder if somebody slipped something into the water supply.

What Beesie said is right on.  I agree with her 100%, and I know first-hand that informative posts like hers sometimes trigger the wrath of other BCO members.  I don't know if it's because they don't want to be bothered by the facts; or if they harbor some deep-seated resentment toward people who are more familiar with a topic than they are; or, if the undercurrent of anti-intellectualism we sometimes see in Western society is surfacing at those moments. 

Whatever the reason, it's sad. It's also sad when someone attempts to point out the fallacy of an argument, or the misinterpretation of an observation, and ends up being branded a troll and accused of character assassination.  That really does make it look as if some BCO members are only interested in their own version of the "truth".

I have already been criticized elsewhere on these boards for the company I keep.  So, it won't surprise some people if I say I'm not the least bit ashamed of "supportively siding with this group of women."

otter

[Edited for typo's... at least the ones I've noticed so far.]

1Athena1

This is definitely one of the worst mornings I have seen on BCO. Perhaps news is out about there being spotty moderation over the weekends, so if you want to swear and insult and wish someone violence or hate intelligent people, for that matter, now's the time.

NancyD

Beesie, I love your research and have read a lot of what you post. You've saved me time which has saved me from making some dubiously bad decisions. I'm stepping out from the silent majority to thank anyone who has posted links to research info so I can read and make more informed decisions.

Thenewme...thank-you for this thread. I'm not a regular in the AC&HT section, but over the years, I have started reading many threads that caught my eye only to lose interest when the subject is hijacked by extremists. 

And I really like your humor.

MaryMeg

I think it's important to recognise too that we all respond to stress and fear differently.  Some of us make decisions with our gut and some intellectualize like mad.  I will never forget a conversation I had with my mum when I was arguing (not at all common for me, of course!) with her and she cried out "Do you always have to be so LOGICAL?  Can't you just FEEL what is right?"  I thought she had gone insane.

The answer, for me, of course, is of course I have to be logical. And when I got my Dx, I went and jumped into Google Scholar and didn't emerge for 2 weeks. But those who need to see how they feel about the information and for whom it has to "feel right" before they accept it are going to struggle to drop or accept a piece of data just because it some dry study says so.  (I'm a huge fan of the Myers-Briggs and Kiersey temperament tests--such a useful way of connecting with how others approach the world--including how we make decisions.) 

I know that if the people around me aren't in a place emotionally to accept something, me banging on about data isn't going to help.  (If you want an emotive topic outside where we are, try teaching infant nutrition some day :-)  I think it's crucial to present the most up to date information and back it up, but I try to do it as supportively as possible without criticizing those who make decisions that don't look like they'd work for me (and still not compromising my integrity or lying about what the research says).  We all have to do what seems best to us and it can be easier to accept new information if we aren't feeling attacked.

otter and Beesie, your posts were among the first I saw in this forum, and I'm so glad you and all the others here do persist!  Thanks again for starting the thread, thenewme.

Hindsfeet

It was around midnight when I posted. I was exhausted, and hot under the collar when I read the TROLL post. This morning, after re-reading my post, I probably would had begun it differently, but being tired, vulnerable, I too vented. I woke it this morning thinking about modifying my post. I probably would not have written, I would be ashamed in posting here...but what was said was said and is my true feelings, so I won't edit it out.

Beese, you are not the only one who has had to defend yourself. Those of us who think outside the box are always being shot at. I have never criticized you, although it is evident that we differ in opinions. In fact, I have had your back...because you have graciously posted facts. Through your post, you are one person who has made me realize I am high risk for bc. You are not one to jump on a thread to attack people, or put down someone because you disagree. You usually repond professionally. I admired you for being sensitive to DCIS women, and keeping the facts straight as dcis is not an invasive cancer. I would have no problem you correcting a misguided statement...because in how you present your case. I know nothing about disregarding the stage 1 dx as a unserious cancer. I am just now beginning to understand what stage 1 is all about...and still learning.

However, I do have a difficult time with women who think they know it all setting themselves as the authority figures here at BCO. There  are those here, who have not been gracious in how they present their case. What they have said to us in the alternative threads has been demeaning, and hurtful. Read the fungal theory thread for yourself and see how these women's attack on us who want to discuss a theory. it is if we have no right. Apparently not. There are also women at BCO who use mostly the alternative approach, who are also geeks, who study and have a logical case. I am not a geek, but I am logical. I run a school. I'm not stupid, and have the smarts to figure out what is right and wrong. And one thing I know is wrong...is meanness, and bullying from whatever side you take.

thenewme

Hi Barry,

I'm sorry you're offended by my thread.  I intentionally kept specific names OUT of it, for the very reason that my purpose is NOT to bash people.  I know, some people will never believe that, but as Lindasa said, it's proven that peoples' minds often won't change once made up.  And I'm ok with that.  As I've said all along, and as everyone else who has posted in this thread appears to believe -we are all in unique situations despite our common diagnosis, and each of us can and SHOULD make our own treatment decisions and be respected and supported for them.  

Another reason for not mentioning specific names is that the problems I mention are rarely limited to a specific username.  I've been around here for a while and I visit BCO (too!) often, so I get a pretty good feel for what goes on.  There are a lot of undercurrents here that aren't always immediately obvious, especially to occasional visitors or newbies.  They don't go unnoticed by everyone.  Websites are subtly hawked and then if someone "accidentally" posts the site link, it's quickly removed to maintain its cover.  Poseurs come here pretending to be "just one of us," but their facts often just don't jive.  The more they post, the more obvious it becomes that they're here to shill or sell something, trying to stay just under the radar.  Of course there are a few who are much more blantant about it, but  the problem is more than just the few who are most vocal.  

Honestly, I'm baffled that you seem to be accusing me specifically, and others as well, of being unkind, uncaring,  hurtful, and judgmental members of some evil "thought control" police group!  Wow.  It's easy to search back through all my posts, and read exactly what I've ever written, and if I've posted anything that fit that description, then let me know and I'd be glad to clarify, since it was obviously misunderstood.  Seriously.

I'm often referred to as not "thinking outside the box."  However, it reminds me of a saying that goes something like "it's good to have an open mind, but some peoples' minds are so open their brains fall out."'

I'm berated for having the nerve or audacity to post on these complementary/alternative threads, which I'm also baffled about.  It's about DISCUSSION of complementary/alternative ideas and therapies, and I do try to stay on topic.  As far as I know, discussion (well, reasonable discussion, anyway) should never preclude questions, opposing viewpoints, pro-vs-con debating.  

It happens all the time on the chemo and rad threads, for example, but for some reason doesn't usually get nearly the same reaction as here ("go AWAY and take your FACTS with you!").  People are forever discussing the risks/benefits/ experiences of taking Arimidex, for example.  Ideas are presented, facts are shared, updated, and corrected if necessary, and people come away with a lot more of value.

Certain people always scream about "we should have freedom to discuss alternatives," but the second part of that is usually unspoken but very clear,  "...so don't come here and bother us with facts, you big meanies!  How dare you!"

It's not about being "smarter than you" <generic YOU> or bullying  trying to discredit, mock, backstab, bash, or force you into anything.  Most of the posters screaming loudest about being censored and bullied and harrassed are the ones most likely to get bent out of shape when anyone dares to ask for more information or present facts/opinion that don't agree.  Why is that? 

I'm absolutely NOT  ashamed to belong to the "group" of posters on this thread - in fact, I'm so pleasantly surprised and overwhelmed to be in such good company!  

Barry, as I've mentioned before many times via posts as well as PMs, I absolutely and sincerely wish you the best in your difficult situation.  I strongly disagree with a lot of your ideas and treatment choices, but I would never make light of your disease or try to force you to do anything at all.  I'm VERY pro-choice. If you were my sister or friend or mother, I'd do the same thing - I'd share my opinions, research, and facts, and hopefully have a logical and reasonable discussion and try to understand your position, and then I'd respect whatever choice you make and support you the very best I could.  I would, however, correct you if I heard you saying something that I knew or believed to be untrue and I'd expect the same of you.  Disagreement isn't a bad thing.  

I keep hearing some people claiming that they are "only" discussing theories and aren't suggesting anything that would hurt anyone.  I vehemently disagree with that and will continue to be vocal about my disagreement when I see posts that say things like the following:

- Doctors are idiots!  They aren't taught about xxx or yyy in medical school!

- Don't listen to your doctor - PM me instead!

- Bioidentical hormones are different than FDA-approved hormones and everyone should be on them!

- Natural substances can't be patented so can't be profitable!

- It's natural, so it's healthy and good and you should take it!

- You need to be taking xxx dose of such-and-such supplement (this one REALLY gets me!)

- You can cure your own cancer if you just do xxxx!

- xxx things your doctor doesn't want you to know!  

- acid etches concrete and baking soda stops the process, so therefore acid in your body is bad and baking soda must be good!

- PM me for the name of my website so you can buy my affiliate products and get pay-per-click income!  Plus it's secret (well, no, not really!) so those BCO bullies won't bother us!

- Researchers and doctors and "Big Pharma" have such a conspiracy that they're even trying to outlaw oranges and tell us that diet and exercise are harmful!

Oh dear, I did it again.  My purpose in this thread, as most of us understand, was not to incite anything or to backstab.  It really was started out of frustration on my part for feeling like a lone target, to clarify my personal reasons for being here, and to sincerely find out about other peoples' motives for coming here.  It's great to get to know people here and find out their stories.  As Beesie mentioned, so much great information gets buried here, and it's great for me to get a better sense of who believes what.

thenewme

I really want to respond to each person who has posted here, and thank each of you for sharing, but I'm not sure when I'll have time.  Thanks again!

1Athena1

No need to  - we are all busy. I don't post or read the alt. threads that much so I don't know much of what is going on, especially re: the fungal theory, which is a thread I haven't read, BUT it's almost impossible to post and read BCO with any degree of frequency and not come up against heated controversies about fact vs. opinion. It happens when you are talking about an incurable disease or, more accurately, one with no known cure, and when you have such a disparate group of people, so many of which have nothing in common with one another. This is a microcosm of the world, with all degrees of good and evil, stupidity and wisdom, chicanery and honesty - especially over the weekend, my goodness!

Before anyone starts to think that a breast cancer patient has anything in common with another breast cancer patient, think again and that is another reason why I loathe the pink movement, which so many of us love to bash. We are each like Britain and America, separated only by a common language (I am tempted to say that Churchill said this, but just about everything is attributed either to Churchill or to Oscar Wilde, and they were both authors and plagiarizers of  wisecracks, so I won't commit to an attribution). 

Hindsfeet

Mary Meg...pardon me, but we who "feel" make decisions out of a gut reaction. I think not. I have been hurt by doctors because I just did as I was told. I've learned the hard way the necessity to research and find out the pro's and con's to treatment plans. I research everything now backwards and forwards...looking at all the angles. Most of my previous doctors have not looked at the whole picture. Cancer treatment is pretty much standard protocol. No one is going to mess with my life without my consent or knowledge of what, and why is being done to me. I think that most people who chose the alternative approach also chose surgery. And most alternative women do a lot of research as much as any geek out there.

 I also have seen that doctors differ in opinions to a patients treatment plan. Geniuses in the world disagree. Most however do it professionally...not amature intelligence who pride themselves in knowing it all.

1Athena1

Deleted.

Paula1231

I guess I am going to have to read thru the fungal posts to understand where Barry is coming from. I have no idea of what that was all about and where the animosity is coming from.

AnneW

thenewme's question was put out to everyone who posts here (or maybe lurks, hesitant to post.)

I'm grounded professionally in Western medicine. But I'm a big believer in complimentary therapies. There are so many things we can do to promote wellnessthat involve supplements, therapies like acupuncture or massage, counseling, traditional medicine, exercise, and eating well. There's much to learn from one another.

And, like anywhere else on BCO, we must decide if we're doing something to make ourselves feel validated versus really trying to learn. We all take in alot of anecdotal information, and there's a time and purpose for all that on a support board. True research (not our own googling or "searching"--that's not research) needs to be read critically. It's not a skill everyone has. It's great when someone comes on to differentiate real vs absolute risk, or explains what makes a certain article invalid. And it's way harder than reading the abstract on PubMed.

I blend my Western medicine with all sorts of other things. I've learned a lot here, and for that I'm thankful. Unfortunately, I'm learning more about when to keep my mouth shut and bite my tongue.

MariannaLaFrance

OK, now for a moment of levity, since this discussion has taken a wayward turn. I saw this on Facebook, and I think it holds true here as well. Read and laugh, because it is pretty funny, and we need to realize that none of us are doctors, none of us are experts, but we are a bunch of smart women (and men) who are desperately trying to stay healthy.

 Hope this brings a smile!

http://www.someecards.com/2011/01/23/a-template-for-every-awful-facebook-discussion-youve-ever-witnessed

suemed8749

MariannaHB: That is SO funny! Thanks so much for the best laugh of the day. Love someecards.