I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

duckyb1

Funny you would mention guinea pigs..............I just told my MO that is what I feel like taking their shitty medication.......................she said "there are a lot of studies..........I said 'yea, tell me about it, I worked for a Pharma Co.for 15 years, and they still haven't settle all their suits, and are getting more everyday.

Didn't hear about the real Guinea pigs though.........Well don't be shocked a few weeks ago, some asshole beat a dog over the head with a chain, cause his bitchy old mother told him to get rid of it.................SPCA is not that far away............takes all kinds I guess.

Enjoyful

People who are mean to animals will be mean to people too.

duckyb1

Agree completely...........................

crazy4carrots

Jast a word about GSE -- aimed at Enjoyful:  It doesn't help if you're still on Arimidex!  And Barbara isn't.  Okay for you Bren!  Let's do a study!

Now to set to work finding more info.

 

P.S.  Hi Ducky -- good to see you again! 

Enjoyful

It won't help with libido if I'm on Arimidex?

BarbaraA

I think the Arimidex is the culprit, E.

duckyb1

Lindasa, thanks, been laying low for a while..................nice to be back.

Enjoyful

Yes it is, but I'm going to try the GSE anyway to see if it helps with libido.  Can't hurt.

crazy4carrots

I agree E -- it can't hurt, and from what I've been reading, it also helps relieve inflammation and there are some studies that indicate GSE + chromium can help reduce bad cholesterol.  Now, where am I going to get me some chromium?  From the car? 

Anyhow, I'm sure I read somewhere that there are studies suggesting that GSE can imitate AIs.  Will keep looking -- or maybe Dr. Otter can find something for us?

Enjoyful

That's why Barb takes it - because it's supposed to imitate AIs. 

Chromium?  From the tailpipe?  Haaha!

Bren-2007

Linda .. Barbara posted some links about GSE on the previous page.  They were an interesting read.  One of them was a little too technical for me.

Bren

painterly

I've been watching for the results of the trials. The trials are ongoing. No results yet.

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00566553

Bren-2007

I copied this from the link Painterly and Barbara posted:

Primary Outcome Measures:

• To document that grape seed extract taken orally will decrease plasma estrogen levels (estrone (E1), estradiol (E2), and E1-conjugates) and increase precursor androgen levels (testosterone and androstenedione) in healthy postmenopausal women. [ Time Frame: 12 weeks ] [ Designated as safety issue: No ]
  

Secondary Outcome Measures:

• To determine the most effective, well tolerated dose of grape seed extract resulting in a decrease in plasma estrogen levels (E1, E2, E1-conjugates) and increase in precursor androgens (testosterone and androstenedione). [ Time Frame: 12 weeks ] [ Designated as safety issue: Yes ]
  

Could it be the increase in testosterone that is ramping up the mojo?

Enjoyful

Thanks, painterly.  Wouldn't it be great if it was just as, or more, effective than AIs?

rosemary-b

I don't know but since I am off Femara I think I'll try it and quit if there are nasty side effects.

Anonymous

FYI  I've got grapeseed extract AND Quercetin, also Strontium, Sea Cucumber, MSM, Tumeric, Glucosamine among others in my Joint Health Foumula.  Taking it for years - stopped Knees creaking, and sounding like crunching dried leaves when walking downstairs.

Still going to keep taking Arimidex as long as I can tho.  SWEAR by acupuncture, all the supplements ( lots of D3), gluten free, and for several months dairy free for keeping me pain free.

Still lazy as alll get out, but that's not cuz of pain, it's cuz of Lazy

apple

Caerus Sunflower

 "FYI  I've got grapeseed extract AND Quercetin, also Strontium, Sea Cucumber, MSM, Tumeric, Glucosamine among others in my Joint Health Foumula.  Taking it for years - stopped Knees creaking, and sounding like crunching dried leaves when walking downstairs"

for your info (fyi -- why couldn't i remember that?) that crunchy sound is call crepitus. .. neat word if you ask me..

crazy4carrots

Thanks Bren, for suggesting I read the preceding page (facesmack!).  Yes, that is exactly what I had read before.  By the time I'm scheduled to go off letrozole, I'm sure hoping that those studies show some positive results.  Meantime, I'll keep taking the letrozole AND the GSE, and VitD3, and, and,and...

Anonymous

cool name, Apple, my grandma used to call it "housemaid's knee" - your's sounds much more serious.  I ws amazed when it stopped - I mean it was REALLY loud, closest sound was crucnching leaves. 

landsa...and, and, and...boy, do I know that one

suzieq60

Rosemary - we are probably related The Irish Wallaces went to Ireland from Scotland in the 1500's I think. We are at least in the same clan.

Morning girls!!! My knees make an awful sound when I bend them. I need at least one knee replacement but have been avoiding it like the plague.

CS - your joint health formula sounds good. Is it a powder or tablet?

E - sorry your SE's are so bad. I can't not take Arimidex as I was very highly hormone receptive.

Sue

apple

I believe chemo has pretty much wiped out my crepitus.. it used to be awful.. the only supplements I take are D3 B6 and fishoil.

morning Susieq58

Alyson

Will have to goback and read the 10 pages since I was on on Friday!!!!! Very interested in thre GSE so will check out info. I take femara and feel the SEs are getting worse all the time though one nurse that it couldn't possibly be so.

I love the word crepitus, its a grreat word to use for creeking grinding knees Apple.

Fine but cold day here, had to get frost off car before went to breakfast with DD1 - she is off the Argentina today - she is a singer.

crazy4carrots

I first heard the word from my chiropractor when she asked me to move my neck form side to side -- major crepitus!!  And I still have it in my neck.  I always had cracking knees as a teenager and from then until - now that I think of it -- chemo!  They don't crack anymore.  Doc explained it was tiny air pockets surrounding the cartilage and was not a precursor of anything serious.  I could never sneak past parents' bedroom late at night, my knees gave me away every time!

P.S. Hi Alyson!  How many air hours from NZ to Argentina? 

suzieq60

Morning Allison!!

Evening Apple!!! Just call me Sue if you like - shorter to type.

Been reading the review site again - just how many Greta's are there? I am really getting confused. I note that I have not had a single reply to my complaints to that site - pretty poor IMHO.

Sue

otter

Sorry, but I'm not going to be of much help in explaining the grapeseed extract stuff. 

I looked at the two abstracts in BarbaraA's  post, and I really can't interpret what's going on there without reading the full papers.  I might be able to find the Cancer Research paper; but the other one is in a Chinese journal and was written in Chinese, so that's pretty much out of reach. 

I am curious about "natural" aromatase inhibitors, though.  One of my concerns about natural products with names like "grapeseed extract," "milk thistle," "willow bark," etc., is that the names sound so innocuous, but the products probably aren't.  Really, the only reason why "natural remedies" would have pharmacologic activity is because they contain compounds that are chemically similar to, and do the same thing as, the drugs we don't want to take.

For example:  the "common foxglove" plant (Digitalis purpurea) is the natural source of the powerful drug "digitalis" (http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/wildseed/27/27.4.html).  And, we can get our pain relief by taking an aspirin (acetylsalicylic acid) or from "willow bark" (salicin).  It's basically the same thing.

Here's what WebMD says about "red yeast," which some people use as a "natural" substitute for statin drugs like Lipitor and Crestor:  "The active ingredient in red yeast is the same as the active ingredient in prescription drugs called statins used for high cholesterol. That’s why red yeast has all the possible side effects, drug interactions, and precautions associated with this type of drug."  (Link to WebMD article on --> Red Yeast & Red Yeast Rice)

So... I really don't know why a "natural" aromatase inhibitor like "grapeseed extract" would cause SE's that were any different from the real thing.  And, I can't imagine how GSE could help mojo, when the AI's usually mess it up.

BTW, I am doing pretty well on Arimidex/anastrozole (on it since June 2008), except for one thing:  I am in an emotional sinkhole.  There is no particular reason why I have the blah's, but I just can't seem to pull out of it.  It's like a never-ending case of PMS.  And, I'm blaming it on Arimidex, because I never felt this way before I started taking that drug.  (I'm not on an antidepressant or anti-anxiety drug.  Maybe I should be.)  <sigh>

Sorry... gotta go.  Lots to do, and too little time to do it in.  I'll try to check in later.  At least I'm too busy to check in anywhere eise!

otter

Bren-2007

The study I read said that GSE promoted testosterone, so that may be where the increase in mojo comes from.  I don't know if the AI's do the same thing.  My guess is no.

Bren

rosemary-b

I know, I know otter. It doesn't make sense that the side effects would be different, just hoping. Femara just beat me up with the muscle joint and bone pain and the dizziness and I was looking at options but would not do anything until all the side effects were gone for a while so I would know what they were from if they came back. Sigh

lewing

Don't hate me, those of you who are sweltering, but I'm out here in the Seattle area and the sun is shining through the evergreens and a breeze is blowing and it's delightfully cool.



My niece had her bat mitzvah this morning - we're all resting and regrouping before the party tonight. I have to say, for all that we were wondering at her choice of readings beforehand (it was about manslaughter and murder and cities of refuge where someone who killed someone accidentally could find safety from the victim's vengeful relatives), she did an awesome job both with her Hebrew reading and with her explication.



I did think it was kind of funny that everytime I stood up during the service, I could see a billboard across the street advertising "ABC bail bond."



Enjoyful, I followed your packing advice for this trip and will be throwing out these ripped panty hose. Tho I could have saved even more room by not bringing the sad, tattered things with me in the first place. Panty hose and I don't get along.



L

Enjoyful

susieq - I can't not take Arimidex either - my last pathology was 100% ER, 0% PR.

suzieq60

I was 95% and 90%!!!