I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

AnneW

Here's a controversy in the making...the Huffington Post reports that the Rebulicans will threaten to shut down the government over the funding of health care. (At least, that is what the Dems think.) Not over the debt ceiling, but health care.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/20/health-care-funding-government-shutdown_n_811870.html?igoogle=1

I say let 'em and watch it come back to bite them in the butt.

rosemary-b

You can pee in a jar and take it outside. Or if you have guys around let one of them do it. They don't seem to have modesty about that especially if it's for a good cause.

Anne,

It backfired when the Republicans did it the last time. We'll have to see what happens.

Bren-2007

Ann .. I read that article this a.m. as well.

Here are a couple of paragraphs from the article:

Democratic lawmakers tell The Huffington Post that they increasingly expect Republicans to try and freeze funding for the health care law. Such an attempt would face the same institutional hurdles as a straight repeal vote: a non-compliant Senate and a president wielding a veto pen. But whereas the repeal bill's death would mean -- in practical political terms -- absolutely nothing, the inability to pass an appropriations bill could have far-reaching effects.

"They are potentially setting up a situation where they will bring government, all of government, to a screeching halt," Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-Fla.) said Wednesday. "Not because of the debt ceiling. This is beyond the debt ceiling ... If they think they are going to have the end game of their appropriations bills be that they drive health care reform into an early grave ... they are literally setting up a full stop for almost everything we will possibly do this year."

But for all the fretting over a forthcoming funding battle, Democratic leadership seems relatively optimistic when asked Nichols' question. GOP lawmakers may view health care funding as the best avenue towards dismantling the legislation, but the public relations dynamics aren't in their favor. Though the Affordable Care Act may have mixed popularity among the public at large, its individual provisions are remarkably well liked by the country. And if Republicans manage to freeze agency funding, Democrats would have a lot of material with which to tar them.

Bren-2007

Though the Affordable Care Act may have mixed popularity among the public at large, its individual provisions are remarkably well liked by the country.

I find this statement in the article to be very true.  Some may not like the bill in its entirety, but the individual provisions have a great following in this country.

Anne .. I too think it will bite the repubs in the ass.

Anonymous

"There was no health insurance (he was cut off after his first illness), only VA ,and I wouldn't wish that care on anybody."

Everyone who is up in arms about Arizona cutting off funding for transplants, and the less than wonderful care that has been the standard for Medicaid and the VA, don't you understand that is what we will all have?  And that we will be forced to pay much, much more for the privilege? 

We are already seeing the price hikes.  In Pennsylvania this week, many people were forced off Medicaid because the program they were in ran out of money, and were instead offered less coverage for a higher premium. 

Maybe instead of worrying about funding, and keeping credit for a "win",  those Democrats should get together with the Republicans in Congress and come up with a workable solution to the mess that they created.

bluedahlia

Single Payer Version?

rosemary-b

Does Medicare have premiums. I didn't think it did.

And it was not a Democrat who  stopped people on Medicaid from  having transplants. I have less faith in a GOP plan than what we have now.

Yes they should work together but people don't seem to want to compromise and compromise    will be needed.

Anonymous

Greatly expanded number of people receiving government funded care, and government dictating levels of care that are available through the private sector. 

I still don't understand how they are planning to expand (double or triple at least) the number of people covered by government funded care when the state governments right now are having to limit the number of very low income people they cover because they just don't have the money to cover everyone who qualifies.

Anonymous

Yes, Medicare has premiums, and they have been going up significantly, even as Social Security payments have not because they haven't gotten a cost of living adjustment.

Medicaid varies by state, and some of the programs have premiums, especially for people whose income is close to the cut off point. 

lassie11

The VA thing was before the Health Care changes and thus a red herring to the argument. The Medicare thing is state sponsored and therefore also a red herring to the argument. My understanding is that the Health Care changes build in funding for future Medicare costs. The fact that you don't understand it doesn't mean it isn't being put in place.

Further, the increases by the insurance companies are prior to all the features of the act being implemented, many of which are favoured by many Americans. That's just the insurance companies getting away with being greedy (again). What do the Republicans suggest for improvement?

rosemary-b

Sorry I meant does Medicaid have premiums?

rosemary-b

And Madalyn if your DH is like mine he would have had a great time

rosemary-b

I'd still like to know how to get people in Washington  to work together. Especially when many of them seem to think that working together means doing everything their way.

Anonymous

Wish I'd known about the cure for moles years ago when we lived in a house with a huge yard and a huge mole problem and constantly injured ankles as a result.  I also had a young son who would have thought it was great sport to spray those holes!

molly52

January 1967 - Buffalo Springfield release as a single "For what it's worth" written by Stephen Stills.  After 44 years, it is ranked #63 on Rolling Stone's list of The 500 Greatest Songs of All Time.  You might recognize it as "Stop, Children, What's that Sound".

Still relevant today - the lines:  "There's battle lines bein' drawn;    Nobody's right if everybody's wrong"

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose
 

pip57

Qui.

rosemary-b

Mais oui.

otter

Wow.  Molly, I had totally forgotten about that song, along with so many of the other songs of that period that now seem so relevant.  Hearing it again, gave me shivers.  I was in high school when it was released, and it is on the Buffalo Springfield album I bought then and still own.  (Gotta figure out how to convert those albums to digital format...  I don't have the software.)  For those who haven't heard it, here's an especially good version of "Stop, Children - What's that Sound?" (a.k.a. "For What It's Worth") on Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZP0pzDRtQw

otter (now how do I get that tune out of my mind???)

BarbaraA

Buffalo Springfield was one of my all time favortie bands. I have all their albums and, of course, CSN&Y that followed. And Poco and the Eagles. A trip down memory lane.

Bren-2007

Molly .. I love that song.  I was just thinking about it the other day.  Brings back lots of memories of a different time in our country.

Bren

iodine

I was an young adult during that time and just listening to it again (thanks for the link) does bring back memories, but it is so appropriate for these times as well.  Amazing.

Medigal

Madyln:  You think Medicare is cheap??  Maybe you don't have a Medicare Advantage Plan like we do.  We have to pay for Medicare "and" an extra premium for the Advantage Plan because it covers more than Medicare alone.  So these two premiums together for a couple can cost a large chunk of money each month.  I guess it still is cheaper than having to go to another insurance plan.

Bren-2007

Medigal .. My daughter-in-law pays $1,000 each month for insurance through her school district, so $100 a month for medicare doesn't seem too high.  But I don't really know how medicare works cause I'm not there yet.

Bren

crazy4carrots

Hey Bren, you feeling a little squirrely today hon?

Otter, I can't get that song out of my head either!  Showing my age here, but I was in college when that came out.  A very good friend from Cleveland had come to Toronto to study and he played that song over and over.  No, he wasn't a draft dodger - he was 4F because of a congenital heart problem -- but he was a pacifist at heart and that song made him so melancholy.....and that's how I think of it too.

Bren-2007

http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/01/21/pearlman.online.civility/index.html?hpt=T2

I thought this article about on-line civility was interesting.

BarbaraA

Aw Bren, just noticed your tribute to Rocky. Cute.

Anonymous

Do you believe our country can continue on this path?  We are in deep trouble.  Teachers and first responders will be laid off in many counties.  Do some googling and see what's really happening.  Do you truly believe Medicaid can survive with numbers like these?

BTW, you know that COLA doesn't calculate the cost of food and energy, right?  That's why there are no raises in SS.  And, yes, I too thought if there was no raise there would be no rate hikes to Medicare.

I watched the interview with this superviser yesterday and was shocked.  Has Huffington Post reported on this?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/19/welfare-tab-children-illegal-immigrants-estimated-m-la-county/

Welfare Tab for Children of Illegal Immigrants Estimated at $600M in L.A. County

  

Welfare benefits for the children of illegal immigrants cost America's largest county more than $600 million last year, according to a local official keeping tabs on the cost. 

Los Angeles County Supervisor Michael Antonovich released new statistics this week showing social spending for those families in his county rose to $53 million in November, putting the county government on track to spend more than $600 million on related costs for the year -- up from $570 million in 2009. 

Antonovich arrived at the estimate by factoring in the cost of food stamps and welfare-style benefits through a state program known as CalWORKS. Combined with public safety costs and health care costs, the official claimed the "total cost for illegal immigrants to county taxpayers" was more than $1.6 billion in 2010. 

"Not including the hundreds of millions of dollars for education," he said in a statement. 

Antonovich's figures, though, center on costs generated by American-born children of illegal immigrants. Isabel Alegria, communications director at the California Immigrant Policy Center, said it's "unfair" to roll together costs associated with both illegal immigrants and U.S.-born citizens. 

"Those children are U.S. citizens, children eligible for those programs," Alegria said. 

She also questioned the authenticity of Antonovich's numbers regarding health care and public safety -- though for the welfare program statistics, Antonovich cited numbers from the county's Department of Public Social Services. 

Antonovich acknowledges that the children whose benefits he's focusing on are U.S.-born. But he argues that the money is collected by the illegal immigrant parents, putting a painful burden on taxpayers, including those who are legal immigrants. 

"The problem is illegal immigration. ... Their parents evidently immigrated here in order to get on social services," Antonovich spokesman Tony Bell said. "We can no longer afford to be HMO to the world." 

He said the state should cut back on these social benefits. According to the November statistics, that cost accounted for 22 percent of all food stamp and CalWORKS spending in the county. 

Over the summer, the Federation for American Immigration Reform also looked at these kinds of costs nationwide to get an idea of the burden to local governments at a time when many are grappling with budget deficits. 

The organization reported that the cost of illegal immigration stands at about $113 billion a year. Nearly half of that amount went toward education costs, according to the study. Costs were naturally higher in states with large illegal immigrant populations -- in California, the total annual cost was pegged at $21.8 billion.

Anonymous

lassie, Medicare is not state funded...Medicaid is.  In the HC bill they told the CBO that they were cutting $500 billion from it.  The HC bill, as I understand it, will help the states with Medicaid, but then it will stop. 

Bren-2007

Thanks Barbara .. her name is Roxy!

otter

Yeah, I saw that Bren had gone a little wild on us.   

Hey, Bren, that's a great, but disburbing, article you found on the CNN site.  It's shocking what people are willing to say, as long as they're anonymous.  But, unlike the writer of the column, I'm not as impressed that the critics suddenly turn sweet and apologetic when they're busted.

[I just realized I'm typing this with a reply window on page 50 but the thread has already advanced to page 51, so I have no idea if what I'm saying is relevant anymore.]

otter